What is gravity?

[popeye1945]

Gravity is geometry; it is bent space, objects follow its curves, this is gravity. It is not a force; it is the terrain of space.

[seeds]

Gravity is geometry; it is bent space, objects follow its curves, this is gravity. It is not a force; it is the terrain of space.

You are describing what seems to be the status of "local" reality (what physicist David Bohm calls the "Explicate Order," and what Kant would call the "phenomenal realm").

Furthermore, there apparently is no "geometry," or "space," or recognizable "objects" at the "non-local" level of reality (what Bohm calls the "Implicate Order," and what Kant would surely recognize as being his "noumenal realm").

No, it is theorized that everything at the deepest level of what we call "material reality"...

(again, Bohm's Implicate Order and Kant's noumenal realm)

...exists in a seamless and interpenetrating (entangled) state of "oneness" in which the correlated patterns (or fields) of information that underpin the construction of our phenomenal realm of experienceable geometry, space, and 3-D objects,...

...seems to loosely resemble the entangled state of the informational underpinning of a laser hologram.

Indeed, Bohm even referred to the Implicate Order as the "Holomovement," due to the dynamic (moving/changing) nature of the underlying patterns of information that correspond with all of the dynamic processes we experience up here in the Explicate Order.
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[popeye1945]

Gravity is geometry; it is bent space, objects follow its curves, this is gravity. It is not a force; it is the terrain of space.

You are describing what seems to be the status of "local" reality (what physicist David Bohm calls the "Explicate Order," and what Kant would call the "phenomenal realm").

Furthermore, there apparently is no "geometry," or "space," or recognizable "objects" at the "non-local" level of reality (what Bohm calls the "Implicate Order," and what Kant would surely recognize as being his "noumenal realm").

No, it is theorized that everything at the deepest level of what we call "material reality"...

(again, Bohm's Implicate Order and Kant's noumenal realm)

...exists in a seamless and interpenetrating (entangled) state of "oneness" in which the correlated patterns (or fields) of information that underpin the construction of our phenomenal realm of experienceable geometry, space, and 3-D objects,...

...seems to loosely resemble the entangled state of the informational underpinning of a laser hologram.

Indeed, Bohm even referred to the Implicate Order as the "Holomovement," due to the dynamic (moving/changing) nature of the underlying patterns of information that correspond with all of the dynamic processes we experience up here in the Explicate Order.
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EXCELLENT!

[seeds]

Gravity is geometry; it is bent space, objects follow its curves, this is gravity. It is not a force; it is the terrain of space.

You are describing what seems to be the status of "local" reality (what physicist David Bohm calls the "Explicate Order," and what Kant would call the "phenomenal realm").

Furthermore, there apparently is no "geometry," or "space," or recognizable "objects" at the "non-local" level of reality (what Bohm calls the "Implicate Order," and what Kant would surely recognize as being his "noumenal realm").

No, it is theorized that everything at the deepest level of what we call "material reality"...

(again, Bohm's Implicate Order and Kant's noumenal realm)

...exists in a seamless and interpenetrating (entangled) state of "oneness" in which the correlated patterns (or fields) of information that underpin the construction of our phenomenal realm of experienceable geometry, space, and 3-D objects,...

...seems to loosely resemble the entangled state of the informational underpinning of a laser hologram.

Indeed, Bohm even referred to the Implicate Order as the "Holomovement," due to the dynamic (moving/changing) nature of the underlying patterns of information that correspond with all of the dynamic processes we experience up here in the Explicate Order.
_______

EXCELLENT!

Thank you, popeye1945, for your kind and encouraging reply. It is much appreciated.
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[Cerveny]

Gravity is geometry; it is bent space, objects follow its curves, this is gravity. It is not a force; it is the terrain of space.

Geometry is mathematics, ideological extrapolation. Real space has an indispensable supporting structure that is subject to, accepts electric and magnetic polarizations, i.e. the ability to transmit, for example, light at a finite speed...
Gravity is a manifestation of the real configuration, of imbalance, compression of discrete elements, of Planck's "bricks" of physical space…

[seeds]

(Aka "Will Bouwman" memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=22950)

...you are simply confirming my suggestion that there is yet a deeper explanation for the workings of gravity.

Well seeds, you know we're both on the same page with this. Neither of us is content with the purely mathematical description of reality.

In my further escapades in trying to analyze the nature of gravity, I recently prompted Google AI's image generating feature to create a fanciful image of what the Earth would basically look like if...

(without disrupting or destroying any of its natural features or processes)

...you could somehow take it between the palms of your two hands and "squish it" into a more flattened structure.

Unfortunately, because the PN forum no longer allows us to upload images, please use the following link...

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/watch ... 75?u=seeds

...to pop over to the thread I created in the "I Love Philosophy" site to see the fun images that I and AI Overview created, not only to demonstrate how strange and whacky gravity is on my "squished" Earth,...

...but also, an illustration where we use an upside-down vacuum chamber that I personally think gives us a better and more logical way of visualizing the "equivalence principle" in physics.

Or, in this case, why a bowling ball and feather would "fall" (make that "rise" --> see the image) at the same rate inside of a 50-mile-tall vacuum chamber located on Earth.

Come on now, everyone, they're some fun visuals, so check 'em out and let me know what you think.
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[Will Bouwman]

Come on now, everyone, they're some fun visuals, so check 'em out and let me know what you think.
_______

Man, I think I want your dealer's number.

[Gary Childress]

So if the Earth were the same mass as it currently is but it were the shape of a giant coin, would there still be gravity holding us onto it so that we could walk across the faces of the giant coin-shaped Earth? Or would gravity be skewed to where, walking along one of the broad faces of it, you would be pulled slightly sideways also toward the center of the disk?

[seeds]

Come on now, everyone, they're some fun visuals, so check 'em out and let me know what you think.
_______

Man, I think I want your dealer's number.

It's "867-5309" --> ask for "Jenny."

Btw, if you did indeed take the time to visit my thread over there, did you happen to notice the annoying poster who goes by the name of "anew1"?

Well, that's our ol' buddy "Age."

And I cannot help but think that ever since you engaged with him for days (maybe weeks) on end in your thread where, despite you providing plenty of scientific evidence that suggests that the universe is "e-x-p-a-n-d-i-n-g",...

...the resident troll (Age), nevertheless, adamantly insisted that you (and the cosmologists) were wrong.

And the point is that because you gave him the impression that his condescending attitude, along with his incessant use of insulting "LOLs" was in some way "worthy" of your time and well-reasoned rebuttals,...

...I therefore partially blame you for pumping-up (fattening and emboldening) his unwarranted "hutzpah"*...

AI Overview:

*Hutzpah (also spelled chutzpah) is supreme self-confidence, nerve, or extreme audacity. It describes a bold or brazen readiness to do or say something that shocks others, crossing the line of normal prudence or manners.

And, yes, I get it that we sometimes like to take advantage of "useful idiots" in order to clarify our own ideas for the sake of the, perhaps, two (or maybe three) people who may have nothing better to do than to visit a philosophy site.

However, I guess what I'm getting at...

(in what, in essence, is nothing more than a "tempest in a teapot" scenario)

...is that, in some cases, the cost may outweigh the benefit.
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[seeds]

So if the Earth were the same mass as it currently is but it were the shape of a giant coin, would there still be gravity holding us onto it so that we could walk across the faces of the giant coin-shaped Earth? Or would gravity be skewed to where, walking along one of the broad faces of it, you would be pulled slightly sideways also toward the center of the disk?

Gary, it was probably due to my poor way of explaining the concept, but you are missing the point of my ILP thread.

Keep in mind what I stated in the parenthetical section of the preface to my little thought experiment...

Today, I prompted it [AI Overview] into creating a fanciful image of what the Earth would basically look like if...

(without disrupting or destroying any of its natural features or processes)

...you could somehow take it between the palms of your two hands and squish it into a more flattened structure...

To which I then posited the Earth as being like a "giant coin" wherein half of us are positioned on, let’s say, the “top” side of this (for the moment) "horizontally" oriented coin in a situation that feels completely normal to us...

(as in "up is still up" and "down is still down" from our perspective)

...while, at the same time, the other half of us are positioned on the other side of this, again, “horizontally” oriented coin in a situation that feels completely normal to them,...

(in other words, because gravity is still working normally, "up is still up" and "down is still down" from their perspective)

...yet, looking at this coin-shaped Earth from its “edge,” it would show the two groups as being completely “upside-down” from one another.

Now with all of that in mind, if we picture our coin-shaped Earth as being, say, a hundred-thousand kilometers in diameter while only being one-meter thick,...

...then just imagine looking down at the ground and realizing how strange it would be to know that just one-meter beneath your feet, the oceans, lakes, rivers, cars, cities, animals, etc. etc., - along with the entire other half of humanity - are all functioning in a context of reality that is completely upside-down from the context of reality that you are functioning in.

And, the point is that ^^^that^^^ is almost precisely what we are actually dealing with as we stand on this orb.

And the fact that we are standing on something round, as opposed to something flat and coin-like, makes no difference.

Furthermore, when you couple all of that with the additional fact that, again, this giant coin is "flipping" through space in, again, a “rotisserie” cycle that only takes but a mere 24 hours to complete,...

...while simultaneously flying - (think "Ferris-wheeling") - around its energy source at approximately 107,826 kph (67,000 mph)...

...then the strangeness of it all is off the charts.

Now you, Gary...

(and probably everybody else who reads this)

...will probably think to yourself - “so what” - and not experience the slightest inkling of a reason to think that there is anything strange going on here.

And addressing ^^that^^ right there - that obliviousness to the strangeness of reality - is, in fact, the ultimate point of the thread we are discussing.

Indeed, the ultimate point of the first portion of my ILP thread was to try and make clear how obvious it is (obvious to me, anyway) that humanity’s general level of consciousness seems to have been “purposely attenuated” in such a way so as to make us completely oblivious of how exceedingly strange our everyday world and the universe truly are.

In other words, our minds seem to have been purposely "designed" and "calibrated" to filter-out anything that might cause us to question or doubt the seeming "naturalness" of this "dream-like" Illusion that we call "objective reality."
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[Will Bouwman]

Man, I think I want your dealer's number.

It's "867-5309" --> ask for "Jenny."

Thanks for that. I'll tell her you sent me.

Btw, if you did indeed take the time to visit my thread over there, did you happen to notice the annoying poster who goes by the name of "anew1"?

Well, that's our ol' buddy "Age."

Say Hi to Ken for me, but ffs don't let on that this place is open for business.

...I therefore partially blame you for pumping-up (fattening and emboldening) his unwarranted "hutzpah"*...

Guilty as charged. There used to be a thing called the crank. It was used in British prisons in lieu of hard labour. It was basically a box full of sand, with a crank on the outside attached to paddles inside that stirred through the sand. Prisoners were made to turn the crank thousands of times a day. It achieved absolutely nothing. Utterly pointless, but sometimes I can't help myself but turn it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_machine

...in some cases, the cost may outweigh the benefit.

Ya got that right.

[Gary Childress]

So if the Earth were the same mass as it currently is but it were the shape of a giant coin, would there still be gravity holding us onto it so that we could walk across the faces of the giant coin-shaped Earth? Or would gravity be skewed to where, walking along one of the broad faces of it, you would be pulled slightly sideways also toward the center of the disk?

Gary, it was probably due to my poor way of explaining the concept, but you are missing the point of my ILP thread.

Keep in mind what I stated in the parenthetical section of the preface to my little thought experiment...

Today, I prompted it [AI Overview] into creating a fanciful image of what the Earth would basically look like if...

(without disrupting or destroying any of its natural features or processes)

...you could somehow take it between the palms of your two hands and squish it into a more flattened structure...

To which I then posited the Earth as being like a "giant coin" wherein half of us are positioned on, let’s say, the “top” side of this (for the moment) "horizontally" oriented coin in a situation that feels completely normal to us...

(as in "up is still up" and "down is still down" from our perspective)

...while, at the same time, the other half of us are positioned on the other side of this, again, “horizontally” oriented coin in a situation that feels completely normal to them,...

(in other words, because gravity is still working normally, "up is still up" and "down is still down" from their perspective)

...yet, looking at this coin-shaped Earth from its “edge,” it would show the two groups as being completely “upside-down” from one another.

Now with all of that in mind, if we picture our coin-shaped Earth as being, say, a hundred-thousand kilometers in diameter while only being one-meter thick,...

...then just imagine looking down at the ground and realizing how strange it would be to know that just one-meter beneath your feet, the oceans, lakes, rivers, cars, cities, animals, etc. etc., - along with the entire other half of humanity - are all functioning in a context of reality that is completely upside-down from the context of reality that you are functioning in.

And, the point is that ^^^that^^^ is almost precisely what we are actually dealing with as we stand on this orb.

And the fact that we are standing on something round, as opposed to something flat and coin-like, makes no difference.

Furthermore, when you couple all of that with the additional fact that, again, this giant coin is "flipping" through space in, again, a “rotisserie” cycle that only takes but a mere 24 hours to complete,...

...while simultaneously flying - (think "Ferris-wheeling") - around its energy source at approximately 107,826 kph (67,000 mph)...

...then the strangeness of it all is off the charts.

Now you, Gary...

(and probably everybody else who reads this)

...will probably think to yourself - “so what” - and not experience the slightest inkling of a reason to think that there is anything strange going on here.

And addressing ^^that^^ right there - that obliviousness to the strangeness of reality - is, in fact, the ultimate point of the thread we are discussing.

Indeed, the ultimate point of the first portion of my ILP thread was to try and make clear how obvious it is (obvious to me, anyway) that humanity’s general level of consciousness seems to have been “purposely attenuated” in such a way so as to make us completely oblivious of how exceedingly strange our everyday world and the universe truly are.

In other words, our minds seem to have been purposely "designed" and "calibrated" to filter-out anything that might cause us to question or doubt the seeming "naturalness" of this "dream-like" Illusion that we call "objective reality."
_______

What makes you think it's "purposely attenuated," and what is meant by "purposely"?