Is Evolution random or non-random

[phyllo]

Why are you even posting in this tread?

To see if your theory makes any sense.

That involves reading, not posting.

[Immanuel Can]

Why are you even posting in this tread?

To see if your theory makes any sense.

That involves reading, not posting.

Actually, it involves questioning and getting answers...something that's starting to feel like an unfamiliar experience here.

[phyllo]

You asked questions and you got answers.

You ignored most the answers and tried to change the subject, right?

[Immanuel Can]

You asked questions and you got answers.

You ignored most the answers and tried to change the subject, right?

No, I stayed on subject, and pursued the question of what you were actually trying to say...which still isn't clear, by the way. All you've said is that natural laws magically appear out of the nothing that you seem to think created the universe. That's what you seem to want any of us who are reading what you write to believe. We might not, though.

[phyllo]

You think that the cause of the universe is the subject of a thread asking if evolution is random or non-random.

It's not the subject.

One can figure out that the natural selection part of evolution is non-random simply by looking at the process.

[Immanuel Can]

You think that the cause of the universe is the subject of a thread asking if evolution is random or non-random.

No, I think that if you posit a non-random metaphysics for the universe, you're accidentally implicating an intelligence behind the design, whether you realize it or not.

If you see non-randomness in this universe, I agree with you entirely. But attributing it to "natural selection" doesn't make any sense, because "natural selection" is a contingent sub-process of the larger universe, supposedly. It comes into being long after the universe itself, and in fact, not until after life appears on the planet, at the earliest. It's a symptom, not the cause, in other words. Something larger would have to account for its existence.

[phyllo]

No, I think that if you posit a non-random metaphysics for the universe, you're accidentally implicating an intelligence behind the design, whether you realize it or not.

Maybe I don't care if the universe was created by a god or not.

Maybe I just notice that evolution is the process which produced plants, animals and humans in the world. It makes a lot more sense than a god plopping everything into place in a few days.

[Immanuel Can]

No, I think that if you posit a non-random metaphysics for the universe, you're accidentally implicating an intelligence behind the design, whether you realize it or not.

Maybe I don't care if the universe was created by a god or not.

That would be a bit odd. It would quite simply be the most consequential thing there could ever be in all of history. One could hard remain rational and be merely indifferent to it.

[Gary Childress]

No, I think that if you posit a non-random metaphysics for the universe, you're accidentally implicating an intelligence behind the design, whether you realize it or not.

Maybe I don't care if the universe was created by a god or not.

That would be a bit odd. It would quite simply be the most consequential thing there could ever be in all of history. One could hard remain rational and be merely indifferent to it.

What is a consequence of knowing whether or not a god created the universe?

[Immanuel Can]

Maybe I don't care if the universe was created by a god or not.

That would be a bit odd. It would quite simply be the most consequential thing there could ever be in all of history. One could hard remain rational and be merely indifferent to it.

What is a consequence of knowing whether or not a god created the universe?

So many things. For one thing, it means that we are not accidents. It means there's a plan and intention behind our being here. We were wanted. We are purposed. We have direction and meaning.

And depending on what the nature of this God is, many more things follow, too.

[phyllo]

That would be a bit odd. It would quite simply be the most consequential thing there could ever be in all of history. One could hard remain rational and be merely indifferent to it.

You still can't understand that the subject is evolution and not whether god is the creator of evolution.

And one can talk about evolution and be mistaken about the existence of god. One can say true statements about evolution and be wrong about god.

[Gary Childress]

That would be a bit odd. It would quite simply be the most consequential thing there could ever be in all of history. One could hard remain rational and be merely indifferent to it.

What is a consequence of knowing whether or not a god created the universe?

So many things. For one thing, it means that we are not accidents. It means there's a plan and intention behind our being here. We were wanted. We are purposed. We have direction and meaning.

And depending on what the nature of this God is, many more things follow, too.

It's certainly a fascinating question and would definitely be an earth-shaking discovery. Upon happening, I can see a lot of squabbles over who God likes more and why. And when something bad happens, there would probably be speculation about who is or is not pleasing God with their behavior and therefore caused it. But what else would be gained if God didn't openly come out and say to each and everyone what he wanted or expected?

[phyllo]

Your parents had you so that you would feed the chickens and milk the cows.

Welcome to your purpose and meaning in life.

[Immanuel Can]

What is a consequence of knowing whether or not a god created the universe?

So many things. For one thing, it means that we are not accidents. It means there's a plan and intention behind our being here. We were wanted. We are purposed. We have direction and meaning.

And depending on what the nature of this God is, many more things follow, too.

It's certainly a fascinating question and would definitely be an earth-shaking discovery. Upon happening, I can see a lot of squabbles over who God likes more and why.

That would be futile. Surely God would have his own view of that.

But what else would be gained if God didn't openly come out and say to each and everyone what he wanted or expected?

Not much. And this is why I say it depends on the sort of God who exists.

If it were, for example, the Deistic god, then it would change some things. Our lives might still have a reason for us existing, for example, which could not be said if the Deistic god didn't exist. But we would all be equally perplexed about things like why he created us, what we were supposed to do, whether good and evil are important, and so on, because, being a sort of "absentee landlord," he'd not be coming back, not expecting anything of us, and not particularly interested in where we end up. His existence would be mostly unimportant to us.

[Gary Childress]

So many things. For one thing, it means that we are not accidents. It means there's a plan and intention behind our being here. We were wanted. We are purposed. We have direction and meaning.

And depending on what the nature of this God is, many more things follow, too.

It's certainly a fascinating question and would definitely be an earth-shaking discovery. Upon happening, I can see a lot of squabbles over who God likes more and why.

That would be futile. Surely God would have his own view of that.

But what else would be gained if God didn't openly come out and say to each and everyone what he wanted or expected?

Not much. And this is why I say it depends on the sort of God who exists.

If it were, for example, the Deistic god, then it would change some things. Our lives might still have a reason for us existing, for example, which could not be said if the Deistic god didn't exist. But we would all be equally perplexed about things like why he created us, what we were supposed to do, whether good and evil are important, and so on, because, being a sort of "absentee landlord," he'd not be coming back, not expecting anything of us, and not particularly interested in where we end up. His existence would be mostly unimportant to us.

What if there is a God and God is a sort of "absentee landlord"? Other than the claims of different holy books circulating around that can't seem to agree with each other, what in our world suggests that God is not an "absentee landlord"?