Should there be limits to an individual's property in society?

[Immanuel Can]

So what would environmentalists have to do to have your approval of them?

Well, some integrity would be a great start: don't lie to people, don't virtue signal, and address the actual problem, rather than indulging in self-promoting, empty gestures. I'd say that then they'd have the minimum to warrant some trust, if not some approval.

I mean what can Western environmental organizations do if China doesn't want to cooperate?

Now you've got it. That's the real problem. China is a Socialist dictatorship that thinks only in terms of its own immediate interests; and it's also likely to be the biggest single polluter in the future, just as it is now...only more so. You can't solve China by berating America.

[Immanuel Can]

You, in your country, should do what you can to not pollute the environment.

Done.

Further to that, the wealthy, which is us, should assist the poor...

I totally agree.

[FlashDangerpants]

You, in your country, should do what you can to not pollute the environment.

Done.

That's just an obvious lie.

[phyllo]

Or delusion.

[Immanuel Can]

You, in your country, should do what you can to not pollute the environment.

Done.

That's just an obvious lie.

How so? What access of knowledge do you have to what I do?

None, obviously.

[FlashDangerpants]

Done.

That's just an obvious lie.

How so? What access of knowledge do you have to what I do?

None, obviously.

Your country does not what it can to not pollute the environment. Per capita your emissions are higher than those of your southern neighbour.

[FlashDangerpants]

2023 CO2 emissions by Country, Per Capita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita

Nation.....%of Global Average....Emissions(Tons p/a)
Canada..................307%............14.91
Australia................293%............14.21
United States..........285%.............13.83
China...................190%..............9.24
New Zealand...........149%.............7.22
Germany................145%.............7.06
United Kingdom.......91%...............4.42
India....................43%...............2.07
Angola..................16%...............0.78

There's plenty of scope for Canada, Australia and the USA to reduce emissions if they decide to become better people.

[Immanuel Can]

That's just an obvious lie.

How so? What access of knowledge do you have to what I do?

None, obviously.

Your country does not what it can to not pollute the environment.

I don't answer for my country.

An individual citizen is only responsible for two things: one, what he does personally, and two, his vote in the general election. If he does those two things well, he's done all he can.

[FlashDangerpants]

How so? What access of knowledge do you have to what I do?

None, obviously.

Your country does not what it can to not pollute the environment.

I don't answer for my country.

Then you have nothing to say.

[Immanuel Can]

Your country does not what it can to not pollute the environment.

I don't answer for my country.

Then you have nothing to say.

About countries? Of course not. Neither do you, unless I'm speaking to one of Kier Starmer and his cronies. So your argument would have to be that nobody has anything to say. And unfortunately for you, you're on a philosophy site, where lots of people have viewpoints, even if they don't have power over their countries.

[mickthinks]

… you're on a philosophy site, where lots of people have viewpoints, ...

And they offer them quite freely and unabashedly.

I don't answer for my country.

Except you

[FlashDangerpants]

I don't answer for my country.

Then you have nothing to say.

About countries? Of course not.

Ok, you have left the conversation then.

[Immanuel Can]

Then you have nothing to say.

About countries? Of course not.

Ok, you have left the conversation then.

Surprising to you again: you'll find I never left. I'm still here, and much to your chagrin, my opinion will be just as relevant as anybody else's here, as a subject of discussion.

Sad to be you, I guess. But you don't have any more control of your country than I of mine. Nevertheless, what we think matters.

[FlashDangerpants]

mean what can Western environmental organizations do if China doesn't want to cooperate?

Mister Can doesn't speak about nations and what they should do, or what reasons they might have. He only talks about what he is doing in his garden now.

[Immanuel Can]

mean what can Western environmental organizations do if China doesn't want to cooperate?

Mister Can doesn't speak about nations and what they should do, or what reasons they might have. He only talks about what he is doing in his garden now.

Actually, I talk about both. And it's plausible that one who is good in small, proximal things is capable of being good also in big, more distant things. But people who are not good at the small stuff have no basis to suppose they'd be any good at larger, more complex matters, of course.