The Culture Wars

[phyllo]

I'm not painting any targets on my back.

Pretty sure you understand.

[FlashDangerpants]

If you look at Star Wars, as an example, they would like a Luke Skywalker character.

If you look at Disney, in general, they would like an end to the "endless" DEI remakes.

Is it too much to ask?

Oh no. I feel so bad for them. Hollywood never gives them representation and that makes them feel bad...

Masters of self-awareness.

Trivializing it is part of the problem.

It is a bit trivial though isn't it? Luke Skywalker is a very 2 dimensional character and Disney remakes are not important.

What is the actual non woke content that you are being denied?

[Alexis Jacobi]

I'm not painting any targets on my back.

Pretty sure you understand.

I do not think that is the reason you won’t make the attempt. And that in a sense puts a target on your back.

[phyllo]

It is a bit trivial though isn't it? Luke Skywalker is a very 2 dimensional character and Disney remakes are not important.

If it's not important, then why destroy the character and replace him with women?

Tiny things add up.

What is the actual non woke content that you are being denied?

Men not shown as weak, dumb, malicious and inferior to women.

Male suicide and depression aside. Nobody is going to do shit about that.

The most damage is being done to boys. It results in poor performance in school and later life.

[phyllo]

I'm not painting any targets on my back.

Pretty sure you understand.

I do not think that is the reason you won’t make the attempt. And that in a sense puts a target on your back.

What is the reason, oh great mind reader?

[Alexis Jacobi]

What is the actual non-woke content that you are being denied?

While I cannot speak for Phyllo (and perhaps he can’t speak for himself ) I think it is relevant to point out that in the present régime of culture it is not that the anti-woke or counter-woke film could not be made, it is rather that it cannot be conceived.

Just take yourself as an example. Try — for example — to sketch out a storyline where the protagonist undergoes a narrative arc that leads him from, say, adamant and even angry atheism to something like a religious (gasp! Christian) conversion that involves him in a genuine, moral awakening. I do not really know you, but having read you for months I have at least a sense of upon what your conceptual model of this world is built. Are you yourself not a product, an extrusion, of the 1980s and 1990s? That is, the gestation-ground that Lindsay references in his exposition on queering. In this exact sense our entire culture has been queered (and it extends beyond sexual orientation). (Even the word “orientation” smacks of that era. Orientation, re-orientation, etc.)

You have to guess at what ‘non-woke’ content might be simply because you are (or i interpret you as) a product if all that anteceded “wokeness” and of which wokeness is a symptom (but not the cause).

Still though, I think that we have a general sense of what “wokeness” is and how it affects those who internalize it. But it really is harder to define a genuine antidote or alternative.

[Alexis Jacobi]

What is the reason, oh great mind reader?

You are uncertain? And insecure that you have thorough definitiins? So better (non-embarrassing) to clam up?

But do not you fear! I will take up the slack …

[Alexis Jacobi]

Men not shown as weak, dumb, malicious and inferior to women.

That is in fact a very important target of ‘the woke’.

[phyllo]

What is the reason, oh great mind reader?

You are uncertain? And insecure that you have thorough definitiins? So better (non-embarrassing) to clam up?

But do not you fear! I will take up the slack …

Definitions again? JF

You guys are obsessed.

[phyllo]

Just take yourself as an example. Try — for example — to sketch out a storyline where the protagonist undergoes a narrative arc that leads him from, say, adamant and even angry atheism to something like a religious (gasp! Christian) conversion that involves him in a genuine, moral awakening.

That's what happened in the 'God's Not Dead' movie. And it became a series. So it can be made.

[FlashDangerpants]

It is a bit trivial though isn't it? Luke Skywalker is a very 2 dimensional character and Disney remakes are not important.

If it's not important, then why destroy the character and replace him with women?

I must have missed something, Luke Skywalker wasn't destroyed and replaced by women in any Star Wars thing I have seen. There seems to be a lot of star wars stuff that isn't Luke, is that what you are complaining about?

Is Star Wars supposed to be only about one dude, and the least interesting one in the galaxy at that? It was a galaxy full of weird monsters and golden robots and giant furries from day one, long before your woke problems began. Are you really sure Star Wars was a good choice for what you are trying to do here?

Tiny things add up.

What is the actual non woke content that you are being denied?

Men not shown as weak, dumb, malicious and inferior to women.

Male suicide and depression aside. Nobody is going to do shit about that.

That seems excessive. You seem to be getting oversensitive and emotional in response to no actual harm at all. This plea for masculinity shouldn't really go that way. If somebody made Lois Lane a character with something to do other that scream and wait for Superman to rescue her that isn't really such a terrible loss for you is it? (I don't watch superhero movies, I have no idea what Lois Lane did in the last one, I'm just guessing, I couldn't care any less.)

The most damage is being done to boys. It results in poor performance in school and later life.

Not gonna lie, that sounds kinda stupid.


And all of this aside, you're advertising some sort of white male privilege. If all the black people and women who complained in the past that they didn't see representations of themselves on screen in anything but supporting roles that reinforce stereotypes were unwarranted, then your complaints here must also be unwarranted. If your complaints are not unwarranted... well you see where this leads us, right?

[FlashDangerpants]

What is the actual non-woke content that you are being denied?

While I cannot speak for Phyllo (and perhaps he can’t speak for himself ) I think it is relevant to point out that in the present régime of culture it is not that the anti-woke or counter-woke film could not be made, it is rather that it cannot be conceived.

It's not my fault that you can't find a maga screenwriter with any imagination, nor that Jim Caviezel and Zachary Levi are shit actors.

You guys can try and put Rand or Bible stories on screen, but you can't ever make them cool.

Just take yourself as an example. Try — for example — to sketch out a storyline where the protagonist undergoes a narrative arc that leads him from, say, adamant and even angry atheism to something like a religious (gasp! Christian) conversion that involves him in a genuine, moral awakening. I do not really know you, but having read you for months I have at least a sense of upon what your conceptual model of this world is built. Are you yourself not a product, an extrusion, of the 1980s and 1990s? That is, the gestation-ground that Lindsay references in his exposition on queering. In this exact sense our entire culture has been queered (and it extends beyond sexual orientation). (Even the word “orientation” smacks of that era. Orientation, re-orientation, etc.)

Sounds like a typical Jacobi pretentious snooze fest. Please don't try to fill the aforementioned screenwriter void, you are incapable of getting to the point.

You have to guess at what ‘non-woke’ content might be simply because you are (or i interpret you as) a product if all that anteceded “wokeness” and of which wokeness is a symptom (but not the cause).

We both know the reason you can't answer the question Jacobi. I doubt phyllo is looking for a Riefenstahl morality play about the dangers of miscegenation anyway.

Still though, I think that we have a general sense of what “wokeness” is and how it affects those who internalize it. But it really is harder to define a genuine antidote or alternative.

A general sense, but no ability to show actual examples for some reason.

[Alexis Jacobi]

It's not my fault that you can't find a maga screenwriter with any imagination, nor that Jim Caviezel and Zachary Levi are shit actors.

You guys can try and put Rand or Bible stories on screen, but you can't ever make them cool.

We are only in the first stages of reaction.

[MikeNovack]

Do you know what the current culture wars are about?

Oh now this can develop into something interesting. But you are going to have to make some statements. How do you explain the present culture wars at AD 2026?

Ongoing, continuing from before? Perhaps I am seeing this as ongoing because of my age. But I do not see works challenging the "received cultural sensibilities" as being recent. Nor the accusation that this is an elitist/ethnic subculture attack against the received cultural sensibilities/values. Which issues/values changing over time.

In some cases less easy to see because ON THAT ISSUE the "woke" side has essentially won and the anti-woke" side reduced to a a smallish if vocal minority. That was not the case say for something like South Pacific when new on Broadway or even new as a film << Even the movie was a decade before Loving vs Virginia >> In other words, we now don't tend to see this work as an attack on established values. That was not the case when it was new. Banned in certain parts of the country and even lawmakers trying outlaw it as "communist agenda". Not that THIS battle of the culture wars began post WW II. Showboat on stage was 1927 (a film version 1936). So ....... if we were back in 1960 we would be perceiving THAT battle of the culture wars having been running for three decades.

Let's see, what date would you assign as the start of the "woke" issue "workplace harassment" (either sort) in the current culture wars? But as I have already pointed out, The Apartment was 1960. To see what has changed, a major element in the comedy is that JJ Baxter prefers to have his neighbors, Doctor and his wife, continue to misunderstand what is going on (too ashamed to admit to being harassed -- though that would likely have made those neighbors sympathetic rather than blaming). We would not expect that today (recent decades)/

[accelafine]

WHY? (why this asymmetry) In other words, allowing the belief "we are being consciously attacked" to be true, why not respond in the same arena?

Because one side has better access to the medium than the other.

For example, "woke" Hollywood.

The writers, directors, actors, studios already have an established viewpoint. Trying to get a non-woke movie made is an uphill battle.

What is this anti-woke stuff they are trying to make? Is sombeody bringing back Fu Manchu and the Black and White Minstrels?

No. It just means making a f****** movie. Why do you pretend to be mentally retarded and not know what people are talking about?