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Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2026 10:00 am
Who has it right? And how do we determine who has it right?
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life."
It won't take much to find out if he's telling the truth, Gary. And you don't have to tackle the entire Bible to discover the answer. My suggestion would be that you simply read the Gospel of John. Just take five minutes, maybe one chapter per day, and you'll be done in less than a month. And then make your own decision about who Jesus Christ is. And if you see nothing to admire, nothing convincing, nothing that wins you, then move on. But if you do, then make a decision about what you want to do about that.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2026 10:29 am
That does sound like the most practical way to learn about and understand Christianity. But is a scholarly understanding of Christianity the same as a more intimate understanding of it? And which is the better understanding of it? Maybe it's a little like trying out a bicycle to learn what it is like to ride a bicycle versus becoming a professional bike racer or someone who competes with other professional bikers in contests?
Professional bike riders ride their bikes even more than the new learners. And in an important way both know much more than someone learning about it by reading about it or listening to others describe it.
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Thu Apr 02, 2026 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2026 4:00 am
I don't go to church and don't have any interest in reading the Bible. And because of that, according to IC, I'm going to Hell. Maybe I should white knuckle it and go to church and read the Bible just to avoid IC's threats that I'm going to Hell? Would it be worth it to change? Is changing from skeptic to believer possible for me at this point?
You must be one of them heathens.
Meditation is non-denominational.
Meditation stills the body and the mind.
Why still the body and mind?
Psalm 46:10. Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
Interesting. When Buddha was graced with enlightenment while sitting under the Bodi tree in meditation, Mara asked him by what authority he knew, and Buddha's only response was to silently touch the earth.
When meditation teaches you to exalt God, you will begin searching for answers in earnest because of happenings, and that's what leads the sincere to Christianity.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2026 4:00 am
I don't go to church and don't have any interest in reading the Bible. And because of that, according to IC, I'm going to Hell. Maybe I should white knuckle it and go to church and read the Bible just to avoid IC's threats that I'm going to Hell? Would it be worth it to change? Is changing from skeptic to believer possible for me at this point?
I don't see you white-knuckling and going to church, but there does seem to be a rather key role you are giving IC. You met him pretty randomly in an online philosophy forum. There are millions of Christians, many other religions. How did IC get this pretty key role in your psyche?
And one ought to add ... many Christians and Christian sects with less emphasis on hell and damnation and more emphasis on the positive aspects of Jesus' message
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2026 4:00 am
I don't go to church and don't have any interest in reading the Bible. And because of that, according to IC, I'm going to Hell. Maybe I should white knuckle it and go to church and read the Bible just to avoid IC's threats that I'm going to Hell? Would it be worth it to change? Is changing from skeptic to believer possible for me at this point?
I don't see you white-knuckling and going to church, but there does seem to be a rather key role you are giving IC. You met him pretty randomly in an online philosophy forum. There are millions of Christians, many other religions. How did IC get this pretty key role in your psyche?
Gary is attracted to IC for the same reason as you, or anyone. For the rock-solid rationality. All I ever hear in rebuttal to IC is bleating beliefs. Oy.
phyllo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2026 10:25 pm
And one ought to add ... many Christians and Christian sects with less emphasis on hell and damnation and more emphasis on the positive aspects of Jesus' message
They usually attract the women folk. I've already suggested that Gary join a choir. There will be a lady there who can take him on as a project and teach him how to sing.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2026 4:00 am
I don't go to church and don't have any interest in reading the Bible. And because of that, according to IC, I'm going to Hell. Maybe I should white knuckle it and go to church and read the Bible just to avoid IC's threats that I'm going to Hell? Would it be worth it to change? Is changing from skeptic to believer possible for me at this point?
I don't see you white-knuckling and going to church, but there does seem to be a rather key role you are giving IC. You met him pretty randomly in an online philosophy forum. There are millions of Christians, many other religions. How did IC get this pretty key role in your psyche?
One reifies one's hatred in a non-existent god by hating those who are its cult members. In, effect, hating an abstraction directly is much less effective, having no feedback, than hating those who are god's committed theists. Thus, one indirectly gets even with a non-existent entity by consistently arguing against those whose irrationality testifies to an existence for which there is zero evidence. In that respect, the IC types perform an inestimable service to the Gary types by becoming the agent for an abstraction that can never be encountered directly. It functions as a crossover strategy which personalizes one's disgust against that which is totally bereft of any personality.
Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2026 5:41 am
One reifies one's hatred in a non-existent god by hating those who are its cult members. In, effect, hating an abstraction directly is much less effective, having no feedback, than hating those who are god's committed theists. Thus, one indirectly gets even with a non-existent entity by consistently arguing against those whose irrationality testifies to an existence for which there is zero evidence. In that respect, the IC types perform an inestimable service to the Gary types by becoming the agent for an abstraction that can never be encountered directly. It functions as a crossover strategy which personalizes one's disgust against that which is totally bereft of any personality.
But that doesn't seem to me what is happening here. Sometimes it seems IC is truly scaring him and making him feel hopeless.
Walker wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2026 12:15 am
Gary is attracted to IC for the same reason as you, or anyone. For the rock-solid rationality. All I ever hear in rebuttal to IC is bleating beliefs. Oy.
Not my experience of him. I find him often quite irrational, but generally.
But I hear your go team hurrah.
Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2026 5:41 am
One reifies one's hatred in a non-existent god by hating those who are its cult members. In, effect, hating an abstraction directly is much less effective, having no feedback, than hating those who are god's committed theists. Thus, one indirectly gets even with a non-existent entity by consistently arguing against those whose irrationality testifies to an existence for which there is zero evidence. In that respect, the IC types perform an inestimable service to the Gary types by becoming the agent for an abstraction that can never be encountered directly. It functions as a crossover strategy which personalizes one's disgust against that which is totally bereft of any personality.
But that doesn't seem to me what is happening here. Sometimes it seems IC is truly scaring him and making him feel hopeless.
If not already the condition of one's psyche, I'm quite certain IC doesn't have any power to make anyone feel hopeless. To my mind, feeling hopeless is an existential condition one has arrived at due to any number of conditions prevailing at the time. And yes, sometimes one wants to blame something or someone for their existential bottlenecks. That's human nature.
Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2026 7:16 am
If not already the condition of one's psyche, I'm quite certain IC doesn't have any power to make anyone feel hopeless.
I agree. There are, for example, other Christians who do not have the same afterlife ideas, so a certain kind of threat would be off the table in that dialogue. My point in this moment is not to blame IC, but to bring up the question of whether this is right discussion partner. It's a bit like maybe you are walking down the street worrying about something, sit down on a bench and the guy on the bench starts talking to you. You end up talking about something deep and every time you finish talking to this person, you feel either enraged or hopeless. Maybe looking for another discussion partner or a therapist you actually like if that's the kind of conversation or a person with a different worldview would be better than this random encounter who has now become the regular center for talks on core issues.
To my mind, feeling hopeless is an existential condition one has arrived at due to any number of conditions prevailing at the time. And yes, sometimes one wants to blame something or someone for their existential bottlenecks. That's human nature.
And sometimes you need to break up with a romantic partner or therapist or friend because they are not really the right person to hang out with. You find a dvd on the street, bring it home and the film in it seems to lead you to either rage or depression. I dunno. Maybe put it on the shelf and find another movie that leads you to open in a new way.
Walker wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2026 12:15 am
Gary is attracted to IC for the same reason as you, or anyone. For the rock-solid rationality. All I ever hear in rebuttal to IC is bleating beliefs. Oy.
Not my experience of him. I find him often quite irrational, but generally.
But I hear your go team hurrah.
Communication becomes a proving grounds when everyone is either a teacher or shooting spitballs.
