Consciousness of plants

[chaz wyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m3oYeVYdvg

Excellent - It's good to hear someone singing about SOMETHING for a change!! Rather than the 90% shit we are usually dished up.

[Bernard]

P Garrett was on the national broadcaster last night in a lively debate or two with Bob Catter and others... if you don't know Bob you haven't lived yet.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3236995.htm

[bus2bondi]

thanks bernard and chaz, i posted midnight oil here to support bernard and what he has been saying in this thread in my own wierd way i guess. i really appreciated, i believe it was one of his more recent posts in this thread. and i'm glad you liked it chaz, they have often been called 'the thinking man's band' (i'm not a man but still, you get the point). and thanks for the links bernard, i have followed what peter has been doing after the band, but haven't recently. so i was happy to see that link (i used to visit it before), to see what's going on recently. i'm pretty familiar with alot of positive things he's done and has tried to do, despite what he's been up against. i still respect him despite what many say. not because i'm a 'crazed fan' or a 'follow him as a god', but for other reasons. i haven't watched the second link, but will after posting this, i look forward to it and thanks:)

[bus2bondi]

thanks for that video bernard, i have some things i'd like to say about it, but am not fully able to right now. but thanks again:)

[bus2bondi]

hi bernard, its 'funny', i was just driving home from work and a car was in front of me with a bumper sticker that said 'EAT BEEF! THE WEST WASN'T WON ON SALAD' i immediatly thought of the video you posted, because it started in the argument about beef shutdown.

[bus2bondi]

i've often wondered, should i feel more guilty about eating beef, as opposed to a plant? i do eat burgers occasionally, but have never been a big meat eater. in fact, more and more it bothers me, and disgusts me, for the sake of it itself, and other things as well. i've never been able to eat fish in my entire life either, my grandmother was the same way.

so i was kind of wondering, do you think plants have more value than meat? and what about objects/maybe talk about objects later. but anyways, do you think plants have more value than meat?

(and thanks again for the video, some people don't mind a thread twist, others do, so maybe we could talk about it here, or in another new thread, its up to you, i don't want to upset you, i don't mind either way) i could be wrong, but it seems to have found itself right straight into your initial topic anyways all on its own so:)) but anyways whatever, whatever you want, or maybe you don't at all. but i did find that there was alot in there to think about anyways, and thanks)

[Bernard]

What do you mean by value? Nutritional value? All things in moderation when it comes to diet. Higher and higher world population is requiring a greater effort toward frugality and efficiency. I don't have any trouble eating any particular food - a neighbour has his own old variety of pigs on his farm, which he butchers himself from time to time and smokes the meat of. Really delicious!

[bus2bondi]

yep yep, yep, but still look at all the veins and blood and icky stuff.

nutritional value. well, i am having a beer right now. i've killed some barley or rice. or perhaps even a human (or "2"?).

[bus2bondi]

in the last week or so i think it might be? i've killed, let me think, about 5 maybe 8 big black ants, and a bee. i wasn't happy about this, i wasn't happy about this at all. normally i try to do what i can to save them. i'll spare the details. i am also bug bias. i've been trying to overcome this. (a quick aside from this, i think it was this morning a daddy longleg spider ), but anyhow, about the bug bias, i don't like those goddamn centipedes. i squashed one of those "sonofabitches") i should keep trying never to assume, even against centipedes, i felt so guilty for that, anyhow

i chopped, i think about 2 in half in the last few weeks as well. the guilt.

the guilt.

[bus2bondi]

i've often wondered that all action of 'human' 'life', comes down to murder.

if you don't mind me asking what do you think or feel about this?

[Bernard]

I cut up a big old gum tree that was lying dead in the paddock for years, and then had to split the sections for firewood today. The thing is 1.5 metre girth near the base. There were heaps of centipedes and even a snake living in that dam tree. The snake escaped but not the centipedes. Birds were hanging around to clean up whoever escaped whatever misfortune followed my axe.

Guilt... ? One day its my turn. Life lives on life. The cells in our body die through our biological processes. Is that fair? I guess its about how much of a big deal we make of death. To me death is just there in order to shift being from venue to venue. Being is never born and never dies, yet its here forever. I have felt guilt for taking life before. In my early teens I let lose with a slug garden in the garden, killing the pest birds. I felt guilty for that a long time after because of the way in which I went about it - no compassion, or word of sorry to those birds, even though they were pests.

[chaz wyman]

Life is death. This week I ate a fillet steak.
But I also deliberately killed a strange looking red bud that was laying eggs on my Lillies.
They hatch and make horrid little green poos of the leaf pulp in which they hide. Pretty soon , without treatment, the lilly looses all its leaves and those beautiful big flowers fall off.

http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.u ... le_red.htm

The excrement covering is most vile!!

Did I commit murder. If not, how is it different from squashing butterflies?

[Bernard]

Its immoral to squash butterflies.

[John]

Its immoral to squash butterflies.

Why is it more immoral than killing an animal to eat it? Assuming that you don't think killing an animal to eat it is immoral.

[chaz wyman]

Its immoral to squash butterflies.

But not rats?