Gary's Corner

[Immanuel Can]

The religious drive me crazy.

Apparently, it wasn't a long trip.

[phyllo]

I said I'm not interested in reading the Bible, going to church or praying or meditating. Is the only way to "know" God to do things like read the Bible, go to church, and meditate? I couldn't know God any other way?

I didn't say that you should meditate in order to "know God".

I think that you should meditate in order to feel better about the world, life and yourself.

What difference is sitting quietly in the lotus position going to make? Hypnosis doesn't work on me either. I'm too entrenched in pessimism and cynicism for things like that to affect me.

The pessimism and cynicism prevent you from starting. They don't prevent you from getting something out of it once you begin.

[phyllo]

The religious drive me crazy. So maybe the world is for the godly. The rest of us don't count and will just end up in Hell.

The world is for everyone.

As the good book says.

[Gary Childress]

The religious drive me crazy.

Apparently, it wasn't a long trip.

When I came down with my first psychosis, I had recently turned agnostic and was working for a Federal Government agency in D.C. My direct report to boss was a born-again Christian fanatic about the same age as me. He had a way of messing with my head, flipping the script on things, and when I had my first psychosis, I was clutching a Bible that someone had given me and mumbling incoherently about religious themed stuff. Literally, he drove me crazy. It was my first up close encounter with a fanatical born again. I was always depressed about life but I had never had a psychosis before that.

To me, there's something sinister about born again Christians. He basically made me psychologically ill and had me doubting my beliefs, thinking I was going to Hell and all that kind of stuff. He didn't have a college education and was bragging about how much of a genius he was, that he was intellectually equivalent to people with Ph.Ds. Kept throwing riddles at me to solve, most of which I couldn't, so he could feel superior and I could feel like my college education was a waste of time. He flipped the script on everything I had learned in school.

There was something powerful about him, but he undermined my confidence and sense of inner peace and left me seriously troubled and my life forever destroyed. My mind turned from depression into fear and paranoia. I would say he did me a disservice, f****** with my head, but hey, what can anyone do when someone has God on their side. "Tough luck, Gary. Enjoy the mental institutions, loser."

But I'll never submit to the Biblical God of punishment, guilt and original sin. Not after that experience. It was like encountering a voodoo witchdoctor.

[phyllo]

Talking to IC makes you feel good?

[Gary Childress]

Talking to IC makes you feel good?

No. It makes me feel like a blasphemer who is going to Hell because I don't accept Christianity as the truth. Should I just stop arguing back with people who basically flip everything I learned in college to introduce me to the dungeon of the Bible?

[phyllo]

Yes, I think you should stop for the sake of your mental health.

Have you heard the joke :

Patient : Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Doctor: Don't do that.

[phyllo]

IC is just stating his own personal beliefs.

Those are not the beliefs of 'Christianity'.

Christians hold a wide range of beliefs about God, sin and hell.

There are many who believe in universal salvation ... that everyone is saved. God is not a "loser". God doesn't lose a single soul.

Many believe that there is no hell. Many believe that hell is a place of temporary rehabilitation.

So you see, there are a range of possibilities.


And one can add that there in no proof that Christianity is correct. There are many religions.

There is no proof that there is a god.

There is no proof that the descriptions of God are correct.

There is no proof that there is a hell.

[Immanuel Can]

IC is just stating his own personal beliefs.

Those are not the beliefs of 'Christianity'.

They are, actually. That's why I supply the Biblical references...so you will know it's not my word.

Christians hold a wide range of beliefs about God, sin and hell.

Rather, many kinds of people who hold many beliefs want to call themselves "Christians." Some are, and some not, of course, as with any other creed or identification. One doesn't become a woman or a man by false identification, either. And in the end, either there will be Judgment, or there will not; so some portion of this group will be exposed as erring in that, one day.

There are many who believe in universal salvation ... that everyone is saved. God is not a "loser". God doesn't lose a single soul.

Indeed there are some. But are they following Biblical doctrine, or their own preferences? There's a way to find out.

Many believe that there is no hell. Many believe that hell is a place of temporary rehabilitation.

So you see, there are a range of possibilities.

Non-sequitur. All this means is that there is a range of opinions. But opinions aren't possibilities. There is but one real possibility. Either we believe the Word of God about that, or we do not.

And one can add that there in no proof that Christianity is correct. There are many religions.

This, again, is a non-sequitur. It does not logically follow that if there are many opinions there are many truths. It just means that people can be wrong. There have been many opinions about the configuration of the galaxy, over the history of astronomy. But there has only ever been one truth.

There is no proof that there is a god.

There are powerful arguments and plenty of evidence; but skeptics rarely sit still for any of it.

There is no proof that the descriptions of God are correct.

You will be able to judge the against the reality...when you meet God.

There is no proof that there is a hell.

It's always interesting to me that cynics always want there both to be a final Judgment, and also not to be a final Judgment. First, they accuse God of being unjust, because evil men get away with things; then they accuse Him of being unkind, because evil men don't get away with things (i.e. Judgment comes).

But what will come will come. And what you and I can prove is less important than what God says will come. Will we believe it, or not? Will we act on it, or not? That's not my decision to make for anybody else. But it's every man's decision to make for himself.

[Gary Childress]

It would be nice if only people who did great harm to humans went to Hell and not the rest of us because we don't happen to be very religious.

[phyllo]

You're not going to have eternal torment in hell.

[Gary Childress]

You're not going to have eternal torment in hell.

I hope not. It would kind of suck after living with schizophrenia for most of my life.

[Walker]

It would be nice if only people who did great harm to humans went to Hell and not the rest of us because we don't happen to be very religious.

Maybe you’d be interested in a religion that rewards doing great harm, with Paradise.

[Gary Childress]

It would be nice if only people who did great harm to humans went to Hell and not the rest of us because we don't happen to be very religious.

Maybe you’d be interested in a religion that rewards doing great harm, with Paradise.

That's kind of the exact opposite thing to say in response to what I said. But, whatever.

[Walker]

It would be nice if only people who did great harm to humans went to Hell and not the rest of us because we don't happen to be very religious.

Maybe you’d be interested in a religion that rewards doing great harm, with Paradise.

That's kind of the exact opposite thing to say in response to what I said. But, whatever.

It's reality. Some folks are interested in that kind of religion, and Paradise is not Hell. In fact, Paradise is better than Hell.