Hegseth war crimes

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Alexiev
Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:32 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexiev »

accelafine wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 11:34 pm
Alexiev wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 9:40 pm
Impenitent wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 8:44 pm Major Hegseth should make the new orders clear... only destroy the drug smuggler's method of aquatic transportation while they are travelling through schools of sharks...

killing the enemy? heavens no, we are merely helping the environment by creating fish food...

-Imp
Huh? If we kill the drug smugglers, where are we going to get our drugs?
Make them all legal. Problem solved.
Maybe. Where I live, marijuana is legal. Opiates are legal -- but by prescription only -- as are many other drugs. There are many problems with deregulating. Antibiotics, for example, would probably be over-used or misused if they were Over The Counter, which would lead to resistant bacteria strains. From what I've read, Trump and Hegseth claim that the Venezuelan drug runners are purveying fentanyl (a very strong and often deadly synthetic opioid). HOwever, most of the news sources claim that they are trafficking in cocaine. I was friends with a plastic surgeon once who claimed to have read the literature and that pharmaceutical-grade cocaine (which he used for nose jobs because it is a vaso-constrictor as well as a topical anesthetic) is safe and harmless.

IN the U.S., drugs were mostly unregulated until about 100 years ago. Medicine shows, medical scams and laudanum abuse were rampant (as might be expected). It's a tough issue. I didn't look up any stats, but I'd bet illegal drug sales are a drop in the bucket compared to legal drug sales.
User avatar
Alexis Jacobi
Posts: 8301
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Alexiev wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 3:33 pm Rodrigo Duterte (former president of the Philippines) has been indicted for the extra-judicial killing of drug dealers. We can hope (probably fruitlessly) that Hegseth, Trump, and their minions are next. It's bizarre that a president of the U.S. wants to emulate a third world thug.
In Colombia where I reside, and in every city, but specifically in my city, there is a sort of ‘mafia’ that controls the local drug trade. It is well known who the dealers are who benefit from the drug trade. But no one goes after them because there is a protection-racket.

So drug addiction, and attendant crime, not to mention the suffering for the addict, simply goes on perpetually. There is even a known figure, a specific man with a name, and a family, with known business interests in many areas, who is or represents a sort of shadow government existing behind ‘government’.

Government is a façade (fachada) because of the level of corruption and how it has penetrated so deeply into all institutions. People know all of this, of course, but accommodate it. And yet when the present situation is compared to 15+ years ago, the general economy is so much better than in the early 2000s. There is high attendance at the universities and, for many (excepting perhaps the ultra-poor), people can advance and are advancing.

Here of course there was a certain sympathy for the extra-legal (paramilitary) assassination of drug dealers in the Philippines. (I admit to having a cold-hearted attitude about it). If here it were to happen that 1,000 such dealers were murdered very few would lament it. Somewhat the opposite, in fact.

First because “the system’ protects them and, as is usually the case, the powers behind the drug sales are not in the poor classes but in the upper classes.

For larger reasons I do not understand Rodrigo Duterte went after the drug trade generally using brute power which is, in fact, the real power. The institutions are ineffective. His was “populism” in motion. (I wonder if it really had much effect).

Now, when you have had a pistol pointed at your head during a petty robbery by young delinquents and drug addicts, or in other instances knives at your throat, I guarantee you that your politics will experience unique transformations. That is what happened to me. Not that I could no longer sympathize with the condition of the ultra-poor, in fact my sympathy turned to empathy and I resolved to participate in contributing to projects of economic melioration. But I developed an absolute intolerance of the criminal, especially those who pick up weapons and use them. I have a friend who was kidnapped and spent 2 days locked in a car trunk as they tried to extort money from his family. It was by an accident that they ended up not killing him.

Trust me, your ‘sympathy’ is quite shallow when you yourself face the violence.

However, here is the upshot: The real facts are that the real criminals and the ones doing far vaster harm, are not among the poor but rather in the upper classes. These are the ones who “get away with murder” figuratively and actually. You can never get at them.

So what is needed is a truly democratic project of mass-assassination. You need to go after and eliminate possibly as many as 200,000 people all across the country. But it has to be sort of like in The Usual Suspects. Keyser Söze not only assassinated the perpetrator but annihilated his entire family and even distant relatives. Then, their heads need to be placed on pikes in the main plazas.

If you are going to go after criminality you have to be motivated by truly democratic principles, you see, and you must be unrelenting.

See, it would be actually great if they really want after the Mexican (and Colombian and Ecuadorian etc.) mafias. Totally extra-judicially. Targeted assassinations, absolute destruction of compounds, apartments, I mean Gaza-level strikes. They should round up at least ten thousand in Mexican government with ties to the trade. There is really no way to carry this out by way of the existing institutions. It will never happen that way.

You see, it could really be beautiful and lead to wonderful outcomes. It just has to be done fully.
User avatar
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 8815
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Alexiev wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 3:33 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 3:01 pm
RickLewis wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 11:12 am Hegseth denies reports that he gave an order to "kill everybody", calling them "fabricated, inflammatory, and derogatory".
It's a shame he made such a big deal of assembling all his generals and admirals so he could tell them that "We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our warfighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement, just common sense, maximum lethality and authority for warfighters." A few rules of engagement might have served him well in these trying times.

The full text of that speech is available at the subtly renamed "war.gov" site here:
https://www.war.gov/News/Transcripts/Tr ... uantico-v/
Rodrigo Duterte (former president of the Philippines) has been indicted for the extra-judicial killing of drug dealers. We can hope (probably fruitlessly) that Hegseth, Trump, and their minions are next. It's bizarre that a president of the U.S. wants to emulate a third world thug.
Whole lotta people will soon need to work out what they are going to do when Trump is dead and they still have unresolved legal issues resulting from ill-advised efforts to placate his narcissistic demands in a post Nuremberg world where following orders is definitively insufficient grounds for a legal defence. Trump himself won't live long enough to be tried, but most of his lackeys have looming issues when this shitshow falls apart.

It's likely that they will have to rely on everyone agreeing that these poor people lived in absolute terror of Trump. Perhaps Noem thanking Trump for Keeping Hurricanes Away is actually not so much spineless adulation of a mentally deranged autocrat as it is a clever legal strategy to exaggerate what a mentally deranged autocrat he is in order to set up a future legal strategy when the next Nuremberg arrives.
Alexiev
Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:32 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexiev »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 3:24 pm

So what is needed is a truly democratic project of mass-assassination. You need to go after and eliminate possibly as many as 200,000 people all across the country. But it has to be sort of like in The Usual Suspects. Keyser Söze not only assassinated the perpetrator but annihilated his entire family and even distant relatives. Then, their heads need to be placed on pikes in the main plazas.

Alexis Jacobi wants to assassinate 200,000 people so that his pathetic little life will be slightly more comfortable. How horrible that he was once robbed! O, the horror, the horror!
User avatar
Alexis Jacobi
Posts: 8301
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Alexiev wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:26 pm Alexis Jacobi wants to assassinate 200,000 people so that his pathetic little life will be slightly more comfortable. How horrible that he was once robbed! O, the horror, the horror!
OK, I am reasonable: let’s settle on 50,000. But I won’t sacrifice the heads on pikes in the town plazas …

No, I just pointed out that there is an emotional and personal component when crime and corruption are considered. The Filipino president had support by sectors of the population. What he did was “popular”. And it was ultra-violent and horrifying.

What I try to point out is that in a nation as corrupt as Colombia (I think it was ranked in the top 10) that the actual truth is that the confrontation with corruption at such a level can only be fought with extra-judicial force and violence.

I have been thinking about Venezuela quite a bit (I lived there and owned property up till 2000 when Chavez won the presidency). I am in support of toppling Maduro and re-integrating Venezuela into the America-dominated system. In the long run it is the better route. It is a perfect example of choosing a lesser evil over a greater one. My point has to do with a conflict I personally deal with: the reality of how things actually work in the world vs unreal (or impractical) idealism.

You in Oregon, the perfect example of academic hyper-liberalism, of course exist in an unreal dream-state. I do not mean to offend you. You have no comprehension about how things work in the world where I live. I understand this because at one time I also viewed things through similar lenses.
Alexiev
Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:32 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexiev »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 5:00 pm
Alexiev wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:26 pm Alexis Jacobi wants to assassinate 200,000 people so that his pathetic little life will be slightly more comfortable. How horrible that he was once robbed! O, the horror, the horror!
OK, I am reasonable: let’s settle on 50,000. But I won’t sacrifice the heads on pikes in the town plazas …

No, I just pointed out that there is an emotional and personal component when crime and corruption are considered. The Filipino president had support by sectors of the population. What he did was “popular”. And it was ultra-violent and horrifying.

What I try to point out is that in a nation as corrupt as Colombia (I think it was ranked in the top 10) that the actual truth is that the confrontation with corruption at such a level can only be fought with extra-judicial force and violence.

I have been thinking about Venezuela quite a bit (I lived there and owned property up till 2000 when Chavez won the presidency). I am in support of toppling Maduro and re-integrating Venezuela into the America-dominated system. In the long run it is the better route. It is a perfect example of choosing a lesser evil over a greater one. My point has to do with a conflict I personally deal with: the reality of how things actually work in the world vs unreal (or impractical) idealism.

You in Oregon, the perfect example of academic hyper-liberalism, of course exist in an unreal dream-state. I do not mean to offend you. You have no comprehension about how things work in the world where I live. I understand this because at one time I also viewed things through similar lenses.
Haven't you heard that Portland, Oregon is a war zone that requires pacification by the National Guard? It makes Columbia look like the Garden of Eden (acc. Donald Trump).

Does the "emotional and personal component" involve fear and cowardice? Those seem to be the emotional components that often lead to violence.
MikeNovack
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2025 1:17 pm

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by MikeNovack »

Alexiev wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 7:20 pm
The attacks are not in U.S. waters; they are in international waters. The killings are extra-legal (why not just capture and arrest the drug dealers?). Evidence that these are "drug boats" is shaky. Besides, when is selling illegal drugs punishable by the death penalty?
THAT is the point, and a place to introduce what the rules are for "war ate sea". Quite different from those for on land, and since established before modern communications, make certain assumptions.

a) A mon-o-war is always "in harms way" and is assumed not to know if its country is at war or with whom. Unlike on land, she is allowed to disguise herself land fly a false flag (may not open fire while under a false flag; haul down and raise the correct on first)

b) As a result, has the right of "arrest" (to stop and search another ship). Must let a legitimate merchantman go, but can take fuel/cargo if it needs but must pay for it. Can confiscate "contraband" and take that ship and crew into custody for trial.

In other words, PROPER would be for one of the aircraft to keep the suspected smuggling vessel in sight till a destroyer, etc. comes up to stop and search. Here these boats are being attacked and sunk based on STRONG SUSPICION (not verified by stop and search)
Gary Childress
Posts: 11744
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: It's my fault

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Gary Childress »

MikeNovack wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 6:41 pm
Alexiev wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2025 7:20 pm
The attacks are not in U.S. waters; they are in international waters. The killings are extra-legal (why not just capture and arrest the drug dealers?). Evidence that these are "drug boats" is shaky. Besides, when is selling illegal drugs punishable by the death penalty?
THAT is the point, and a place to introduce what the rules are for "war ate sea". Quite different from those for on land, and since established before modern communications, make certain assumptions.

a) A mon-o-war is always "in harms way" and is assumed not to know if its country is at war or with whom. Unlike on land, she is allowed to disguise herself land fly a false flag (may not open fire while under a false flag; haul down and raise the correct on first)

b) As a result, has the right of "arrest" (to stop and search another ship). Must let a legitimate merchantman go, but can take fuel/cargo if it needs but must pay for it. Can confiscate "contraband" and take that ship and crew into custody for trial.

In other words, PROPER would be for one of the aircraft to keep the suspected smuggling vessel in sight till a destroyer, etc. comes up to stop and search. Here these boats are being attacked and sunk based on STRONG SUSPICION (not verified by stop and search)
It's a good point. While we're blowing all these boats to smithereens, someone ought to be establishing the record of why they were blown to smithereens. And I don't know how you can do that reliably without actually boarding and inspecting first. But accusation = guilty, apparently.
Impenitent
Posts: 5774
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Impenitent »

I wonder if smithereens enjoys loose kites...

-Imp
User avatar
Alexis Jacobi
Posts: 8301
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Wall Street Journal, a few days back…
They see themselves as the cowboys of the drug trade, highly experienced crews that ferry narcotics on small boats across the open seas, running on a mix of bravado, skill and dreams of a massive payday.

Even with the new danger of getting blown out of the water by the U.S. military after being designated as terrorists by the Trump administration, the incentives remain huge. One pilot of a drug boat said a clean run of two or three tons of cocaine can mean $100,000 for a day’s work.

Another drug-boat crew member who operates in the Pacific described an operation in August in which smugglers met at a fixed point in the ocean to pass $12 million worth of cocaine from the boat to a “narco sub.”

Now the 29-year-old Colombian is being asked to make another crossing. He is spooked by the airstrikes but hasn’t ruled it out.

His calculation underlines the hard reality that counterdrug officials face: Dozens of speed boats, submersible vessels, fishing boats and other craft move cocaine on the high seas every month—many times more than what the U.S. has attacked since first launching an airstrike in early September, former Colombian naval officials say.
Sign up for the 45 Day Email Course and be sure to click the Hourly Newsfeed link! You will not regret it!
User avatar
phyllo
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Victory in Ukraine

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by phyllo »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Dec 05, 2025 11:21 am Wall Street Journal, a few days back…
They see themselves as the cowboys of the drug trade, highly experienced crews that ferry narcotics on small boats across the open seas, running on a mix of bravado, skill and dreams of a massive payday.

Even with the new danger of getting blown out of the water by the U.S. military after being designated as terrorists by the Trump administration, the incentives remain huge. One pilot of a drug boat said a clean run of two or three tons of cocaine can mean $100,000 for a day’s work.

Another drug-boat crew member who operates in the Pacific described an operation in August in which smugglers met at a fixed point in the ocean to pass $12 million worth of cocaine from the boat to a “narco sub.”

Now the 29-year-old Colombian is being asked to make another crossing. He is spooked by the airstrikes but hasn’t ruled it out.

His calculation underlines the hard reality that counterdrug officials face: Dozens of speed boats, submersible vessels, fishing boats and other craft move cocaine on the high seas every month—many times more than what the U.S. has attacked since first launching an airstrike in early September, former Colombian naval officials say.
Sign up for the 45 Day Email Course and be sure to click the Hourly Newsfeed link! You will not regret it!
So why not intercept these boats, seize the narcotics and dump the people in Venezuelan jail?

All the criticism of blowing up people would instantly vanish.

They could probably get some useful information out of the prisoners.

They could even get away with using lethal force as long as they had some evidence at the end.
Impenitent
Posts: 5774
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Impenitent »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 3:24 pm ...Trust me, your ‘sympathy’ is quite shallow when you yourself face the violence.

However, here is the upshot: The real facts are that the real criminals and the ones doing far vaster harm, are not among the poor but rather in the upper classes. These are the ones who “get away with murder” figuratively and actually. You can never get at them.

So what is needed is a truly democratic project of mass-assassination. You need to go after and eliminate possibly as many as 200,000 people all across the country. But it has to be sort of like in The Usual Suspects. Keyser Söze not only assassinated the perpetrator but annihilated his entire family and even distant relatives. Then, their heads need to be placed on pikes in the main plazas.

If you are going to go after criminality you have to be motivated by truly democratic principles, you see, and you must be unrelenting.

See, it would be actually great if they really want after the Mexican (and Colombian and Ecuadorian etc.) mafias. Totally extra-judicially. Targeted assassinations, absolute destruction of compounds, apartments, I mean Gaza-level strikes. They should round up at least ten thousand in Mexican government with ties to the trade. There is really no way to carry this out by way of the existing institutions. It will never happen that way.

You see, it could really be beautiful and lead to wonderful outcomes. It just has to be done fully.
breeding the perfect human by eliminating the imperfect ones...

there was a guy in Germany...

-Imp
User avatar
Alexis Jacobi
Posts: 8301
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

phyllo wrote: Fri Dec 05, 2025 2:06 pm So why not intercept these boats, seize the narcotics and dump the people in Venezuelan jail?
You do not seem to be aware of the reasons Venezuela must be remodeled. I think it may have a great deal to do with the close association with Iran, Russia and of course Cuba into Venezuelan affairs. Trump represents a bellicose faction that seems to want to reestablish certain lines of power. You know, in “our” sphere of influence.

So these attacks have a number of functions: 1) to unsettle drug traffickers; 2) to demonstrate brute power in the region; and 3) for domestic consumption among those aligned with Trumpian objectives.

(The US cannot dump people in Venezuelan jails.)
All the criticism of blowing up people would instantly vanish.
They want the imagery.
They could probably get some useful information out of the prisoners.
I am sure they have all sort of information and don’t require more.
They could even get away with using lethal force as long as they had some evidence at the end.
I agree. Myself, I would much prefer mass attacks on Mexican targets. These small boat attacks are counter-productive in the long run.
User avatar
phyllo
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Victory in Ukraine

Re: Hegseth war crimes

Post by phyllo »

They want the imagery.
"They blowed up real good!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrttPwepgp0
Post Reply