The Democrat Party Hates America

[Belinda]

For this reason — and germane to the topic of this thread — are those views developing in our present that are Christian activist.

Andrew Torba speaking directly to contemporary issues of immediate concern to an entire faction within Christianity (which transcends the Protestant-Catholic division I should add):

A line has been crossed in the conscience of the American Christian. The theological and political chains that bound us to a foreign agenda, crafted not in the interests of our nation but for the benefit of those who reject our Lord, have been broken. For generations, we labored under a dual loyalty: pledging our hearts to Christ and the American nation while our government bowed to Israel and Jewish donors. We funded wars we didn’t believe in, silenced truths we were called to speak, and sacrificed our sons and daughters on altars of a foreign nation that scorns the very name of Jesus.

That captivity ends now.

This is our Christian Declaration of Independence from Jewish power. A sovereign assertion that our allegiance is to God alone, and that our nation’s destiny will no longer be mortgaged to the interests of a predatory ethnic lobby or an unbelieving nation state. We reject the curated guilt, the theological distortions, and the political blackmail that have long subverted our witness and plundered our republic. We have seen the cost of compromise, and we will pay it no longer. This is where we take our stand. This is where we draw the line.

The primary, overriding issue in American politics today is not the border, not the economy, not even the cultural rot—it is the question of sovereignty. Specifically, it is the unresolved and unaddressed problem of a powerful, organized minority exercising a degree of influence over our government that is wholly disproportionate to its size and fundamentally at odds with the interests of the American nation. When our elected officials, from both parties, are beholden to the agenda of a foreign nation-state and the domestic lobbying power of a 2% minority, we do not, in any meaningful sense, have a government of, by, and for the American people.

We have a captured state.

But those chains are not only theological and political, the chains are also economic. 'America' doesn't feel threatened by Islam, or by Judaism,so much as by threats to America's economic interests overseas. Not so?

[Immanuel Can]

Now you want to say that Jesus didn't know that the NT and Christianity was coming? And he couldn't tailor the message appropriately?

I didn't say any such thing. All I say is that when His audience heard Him say that "the Scriptures" must be fulfilled, they could not possibly have imagined any other Scriptures but the OT. It's all they had, and all they knew. He also must have known what they would assume, because if He had thought otherwise, He would surely have added something like, "...not the Scriptures you know; new ones, ones you've never seen yet, that are yet to come."

But He didn't. He knew very well what they'd understand -- which is all they could possibly have understood -- and He was content for them to understand exactly that.

[Alexiev]

The Democrats don't "hate America", and America seems to no longer hater them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/05/us/p ... crats.html

Perhaps Americans are finally turning against Trump. I'm amazed conservatives -- who traditionally support capitalism and states rights -- have supported him. He's clearly anti-free-trade, opposed to free elections, against state rights, and opposed to the Constitution.

Unfortunately, this election was an unimportant one. Still, Trump's posturing about cutting of federal aid to New York City because disapproves of the voters' choice is so unAmerican that it's amazing Trump supporters can call themselves patriots.

[Alexis Jacobi]

But those chains are not only theological and political, the chains are also economic. 'America' doesn't feel threatened by Islam, or by Judaism, so much as by threats to America's economic interests overseas. Not so?

I do not submit Torba’s perspective as an ‘argument’, but because these abstract conversations require grounding.

I realize this is an England-based forum, and it is not the best place for discussions relevant to American politics, but this is my own area of interest.

I think the topic of what is roiling in the American culture there is no one here with even a basic interest in the question who is not, like Acellaphina, operating at nut-job level.

Would you like a summation, a la Alexis Jacobi, of “what is going on in America”?

[Immanuel Can]

The Democrats don't "hate America"...

Then why do they love the people who yell, "Death to America" all the time?

[Alexiev]

The Democrats don't "hate America"...

Then why do they love the people who yell, "Death to America" all the time?

Perhaps they are good Christians who love their neighbors and their enemies.

[Immanuel Can]

The Democrats don't "hate America"...

Then why do they love the people who yell, "Death to America" all the time?

Perhaps they are good Christians who love their neighbors and their enemies.

You think they recognize Islamists as their enemies? Or do you think they mistake them for their friends?

[Alexis Jacobi]

The Democrats don't "hate America", and America seems to no longer [to] hate them.

My interpretation is that the Democrats represent a new version of America, and that version contrasts with an older school version of “what America is”.

In this sense the Democrats hate that version of America which could be said to be “original” or, to use a post-Civil War term, unreconstructed.

The unreconstructed — to some degree that conforms to the “deplorables” — have been so harshly repressed and vilified that their anger turned to resentment and resentment into assertions of power.

Now for example an unreconstructed narrative takes form in one of the most vocal exponent: Nick Fuentes. The hyper-liberalism and hyper-excesses of one faction within American culture simply put went too far. And the result was and is the boiling over of a reactionary spirit. It seems to me to have been slow to develop. But if my reading is accurate it is now manifest.

My tendency is to “agree with” or “side with” that faction. But not because I agree with their specific platform, but because I have chosen to align myself with extreme metaphysical conservatism.

The hyper-liberal faction will gather steam however, and since it is associated with a new demographic, it will begin to roar again — and yes, the new NY mayor is an example.

The opposed camps will disassociate more, and the developing civil conflicts will worsen.

If, or I should say when, the so-called MAGA or America First movement achieves a breakup in Israel’s influence over American policy (I regard this as very real) at that point the Trump movement, iconically enough, will have matured in a genuine sense.

But should a cultural figure similar to Trump in rhetorical power and influence appear — or “manifest” — though one who is genuinely America First (Trump is not) in that unreconstructed sense — at that point watch out. Paramilitary opposition will be required. I.e. targeted assassinations and contrived crises will likely take place so that the roiling factions can be dampened.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Rule Number One

Love your enemies after you have killed and buried them. Love them truly and with Christian love and toleration.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Perhaps Americans are finally turning against Trump.

First you have to specify the sector that supported, and tolerated, Trump. Even Bannon defined Trump as “an imperfect vehicle”.

Trump is not really “Trump” in the sense of what he pretended to be demagogically.

Trump inspired America First in a reactionary sense and opposed to “Cuckservatives”. And Trumpism is transforming into America First-ism.

In this sense, or on one hand yes, that faction must turn against Trump, but in no sense against what “America First” means to them, and the radicalism Trump inspired.

[Alexiev]

Perhaps Americans are finally turning against Trump.

First you have to specify the sector that supported, and tolerated, Trump. Even Bannon defined Trump as “an imperfect vehicle”.

Trump is not really “Trump” in the sense of what he pretended to be demagogically.

Trump inspired America First in a reactionary sense and opposed to “Cuckservatives”. And Trumpism is transforming into America First-ism.

In this sense, or on one hand yes, that faction must turn against Trump, but in no sense against what “America First” means to them, and the radicalism Trump inspired.

Donald Trump could not care less about "America First". He denounces the American ideals of free elections, free trade, and "give me your huddled masses" (or whatever the quote is). , He loves our traditional enemi3es (the dictatorial states), and despises our traditional allies (Western Europe). He is interested in one thing "first" -- Donald Trump.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Donald Trump could not care less about "America First". He denounces the American ideals of free elections, free trade, and "give me your huddled masses" (or whatever the quote is). , He loves our traditional enemi3es (the dictatorial states), and despises our traditional allies (Western Europe). He is interested in one thing "first" -- Donald Trump.

That may be true but that is also just one side of the story about Trump.

At the same time you avoided hearing and perhaps understanding that there is a America First sentiment and something like a developing movement that, as I see it, is composed of the unreconstructed. Trump will fade away. I do not think they will.

As always (on this forum) cool conversation from a distance are mostly impossible. However it is a very interesting topic with lots of potential.

I am uncertain if you can handle this but I found it worthwhile to better understand what some view as Trump’s attainments.

[Alexiev]

Donald Trump could not care less about "America First". He denounces the American ideals of free elections, free trade, and "give me your huddled masses" (or whatever the quote is). , He loves our traditional enemi3es (the dictatorial states), and despises our traditional allies (Western Europe). He is interested in one thing "first" -- Donald Trump.

That may be true but that is also just one side of the story about Trump.

At the same time you avoided hearing and perhaps understanding that there is a America First sentiment and something like a developing movement that, as I see it, is composed of the unreconstructed. Trump will fade away. I do not think they will.

As always (on this forum) cool conversation from a distance are mostly impossible. However it is a very interesting topic with lots of potential.

I am uncertain if you can handle this but I found it worthwhile to better understand what some view as Trump’s attainments.

I probably could handle it, but I didn't. I prefer to read.

"America first" suggests some sort of idealized America. The American ideals are codified in the Constitution, poeticized on the Statue of Liberty, and revolve around a perhaps over-exaggerated comparison of democracy with liberty. The Trumpian "America First" movement mirrors his personality -- it boils down to "me first". In addition, Trump's isolationism (which made his first term tolerable until the end) has disappeared. He's trying to send troops to my home state of Oregon; he lies about Portland being a "war zone"; he defies the Constitution and the principles of democracy.

HIs appeal is to those who feel picked on by intellectual elites and decry the loss of high-paying working-class jobs (and rich people who for some bizarre reason want to get even richer). But those aren't coming back, however many tariffs are imposed. Unions used to be the bulwarks of the Democrat party; they still are, but working class unions are disappearing. I'm guessing the biggest unions today are teachers' unions and other middle class unions for government workers. Alexiev: former proud member of the United Mine Workers.

[Alexis Jacobi]

"America first" suggests some sort of idealized America. The American ideals are codified in the Constitution, poeticized on the Statue of Liberty, and revolve around a perhaps over-exaggerated comparison of democracy with liberty.

Yes, those who gravitate to America First ideals and rhetoric have a vision turning on what they have been deprived of, or what they no longer have. They represent a displaced demographic.

Your vision of America is the New Version, as I explained. I can only suggest to you that you familiarize yourself with the rising movement that embodies the older version.

[Belinda]

That’s just jibber-jabber Belinda. Most religious people have a deeply mystical relationship with and through their faith. You are outside of this understanding because you are not involved with religious practice. Religious practice involves ethics, morality, mystical relationship and certainly “spiritual magic”.

Did you not study Book Nine in the Second Section of The Course!? I have it all mapped out and color-coded …

Are you conflating mystical and emotional?

Given that my own experience of religious behaviour is neither emotional nor mystical I am dubious about your claim concerning (quote Alexis):-

Most religious people have a deeply mystical relationship with and through their faith.

Consequently I'd need definitions, facts ,and figures before I take your claim seriously; beginning with a definition of "religious people".

I gather you lack experience of sociological research.