The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

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Age
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Age »

Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:50 am
Skepdick wrote: Wed Oct 29, 2025 12:16 pm
Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Wed Oct 29, 2025 8:52 am If creating is not possible, the creator can not exist. This law is universal and applies to all Existence.
It can't be "universal". It starts with an "IF". Universals aren't conditional.

Your "universal law" is just a conditional claim dependent on an unproven premise
Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Wed Oct 29, 2025 8:52 am Presenting ideas in books and selling them is a normal, legal, and common activity. Writers and salespeople are not criminals.
Nobody accused you of committing a crime. You are only accused of being motivated to pretend you aren't wrong.

You are financial inceitivised to defend your argument even at the expense of truth.
Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Wed Oct 29, 2025 8:52 am You are mixing two unmixable things: even if the cosmos were to "die" of "cold", which won't happen, it would still exist.
Oh, so the cosmos is also eternal now? Like Existence.
Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Wed Oct 29, 2025 8:52 am What is your thinking founded on then? On faith? Dogma? Are you a religious believer? A Christian? Which denomination?
My thinking isn't "founded" on anything. Thinking is what I do as a matter of course.

I know how to do it - so I do it.
Here is in affirmative form: creating is not possible, so the creator does not exist. No conditions here.

I don't pretend to be wrong, and I am not; that is just your desperate attempt to present them like that.

1. law of thermodynamics is not wrong; it is a valid scientific law. I use it for my first piece of evidence that god does not exist.

Instead of ad hominem, which is the same as admitting your defeat, refute the 1. law of thermodynamics with logic if you can.
But, no one has to so-call 'refute the law of thermodynamics with logic' to refute your claim that 'it' is your first piece of evidence that God does not exist.

Cosmos is part of eternal Existence, so in this sense, it is also eternal. [/quote]

That is like saying a tree and/or a human being is a part of eternal Existence, so in this sense, a tree and a human being is also eternal. Which, like your others claims, here, are nonsensical.
Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:08 am How do you know then what to say? Instinctively?

How do you understand different meanings, ethics, and logic without a foundation?

Is that a reason that you can't understand the simple facts I am presenting?
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Fairy »

God created everything, including God. God created all things because that’s all there is that can be known.

Something is known, it’s experienced. So God is totally present and evident always.

Everything is what the universe is doing.

Experiencing itself: The individual is an "aperture through which the universe is looking at and exploring itself". Our consciousness is the universe becoming aware of its own magnificent process.
Age
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Age »

Fairy wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 9:38 am God created everything, including God. God created all things because that’s all there is that can be known.
And, obviously things are being created 'always', NOW.
Fairy wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 9:38 am Something is known, it’s experienced. So God is totally present and evident always.

Everything is what the universe is doing.

Experiencing itself: The individual is an "aperture through which the universe is looking at and exploring itself". Our consciousness is the universe becoming aware of its own magnificent process.
Yes. God uses you human beings to 'bear witness' to what It is Creating, HERE-NOW.

God also needed a part of Its always evolving Creation, that is, you human beings, the organism/animal with a brain that works exactly like a computer does in being able to gather, store, and recall previously obtained information, for God/Universe to come to know thy 'Self'. you know, the who, and 'I', in the question, 'Who am 'I'?'.
Fairy
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Fairy »

Age wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 10:17 am
Fairy wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 9:38 am God created everything, including God. God created all things because that’s all there is that can be known.
And, obviously things are being created 'always', NOW.
Fairy wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 9:38 am Something is known, it’s experienced. So God is totally present and evident always.

Everything is what the universe is doing.

Experiencing itself: The individual is an "aperture through which the universe is looking at and exploring itself". Our consciousness is the universe becoming aware of its own magnificent process.
Yes. God uses you human beings to 'bear witness' to what It is Creating, HERE-NOW.

God also needed a part of Its always evolving Creation, that is, you human beings, the organism/animal with a brain that works exactly like a computer does in being able to gather, store, and recall previously obtained information, for God/Universe to come to know thy 'Self'. you know, the who, and 'I', in the question, 'Who am 'I'?'.
Nice one Age. 👍 Agreed.

Take care my friend.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:27 am I live in Europe, so the CC scene was far away. In those without internet, it was hard to get his books, let alone insider information.

When you know that your life was fully scripted in advance, even 100 and more years before your birth, then you know that "omens" are also fabricated.

In the DJ times, there were deciphering birds flying, presenting it as a good or bad omen flying to the south or to the north.

Today, people watch repeating numbers on their phones and digital clocks, guessing what 11:11 could mean.

The karmicons put some signs into our lives, especially at the big crossroads in life, to drive us in the right direction. Even if you don't see or understand them, you can't fail - you will execute their program and do exactly what is in your script.

You can read more about the preparation of humans from other planets for incarnations in Michael Duff Newton's Books. The karmicons pre-wrote it - like all books except mine - so there are many lies, but enough truth to get a good picture of their work.

There is also a very interesting short book, The Nine Steps: A Story of Birth and Rebirth by French authors Anne Givaudan and Daniel Meurois.

When I read Rebecca's statement that at the birth of a child, people cry on other planets, and when we die, they are happy, I knew that something was totally wrong with the story about incarnations as voluntary self-development in the "School of Life". Later, I learned that all incarnations are forced.

Speaking about signs, my book series are one of the best signs ever, as they present the truth about the Karmic Organization, and the fantastic future waiting for us.
My position is that of observer, from a philosophical and also ethnological and sociological position, of cultural trends. And of course I am interested in religion, the religious perspective, but primarily because I am interested in metaphysics. And my definition of metaphysics is rather simplistic: I see *the world* (i.e. Nature, the material and biological) as operating according to laws and processes that are 'mindless' and (from our perspective) absolutely cruel and unforgiving. Though like Don Señor Seeds I do notice that 'our world' is simultaneously amazingly beautiful and wondrous and like anyone I marvel at the fact that it exists. I.e. that there exists this *space* (loka in Sanskrit) where, somehow or other, we appear and we take place. Similar to the view which you have emphasized, it is easy for me to speculate that just as our 'sphere' exists, that any number of other such spheres exist, and that beings with consciousness are ubiquitous in this Cosmos.

Metaphysics is a conceived-of or even imagined world that is superimposed over the actual world. I do not discount what is metaphysical as being unreal. In fact what is conceived of metaphysically determines everything in the human world. We are metaphysical beings.

When we consider *metaphysical pictures* we have a great deal to examine. The most primitive would be shamanistic perspectives and the picture of a man alone facing the terrible and terrifying world and relying on his wits and his strength to make his way through. In that circumstance man relies on 'signs and omens' and also spirits and demi-gods for success in the hunt.

That way of life (here in America) was explored a great deal in the 60s and 70s (and later) by post-Christians who became unmoored from their grounding in conventional, religious pictures. One has to take into consideration that with the so-called *death of god* (the killing of an unbelievable 'picture' of man, the world, the universe, being and all the rest) that it was quite natural, and inevitable, that people would be thrown back upon themselves and start to examine other 'pictures' and also tactics and techniques. Certainly CG Jung was a major player in exploring an entire ground that had been left behind, or been submerged and repressed, by the assault against everything 'pagan'. An entire intelligentsia in Europe recoiled back into themselves when the road forward as defined by the Christian picture (the *horizon* as Nietzsche put it) collapsed, which it certainly did. (CC took the *hunter's mentality' and turned it into an elaborate 'stalker's' philosophy.)

Castaneda is a peculiarly potent figure, and utterly and completely Californian, and to understand his advent one has to go back 150 years to specific currents that began to operate on the East Coast in the Burned-over District. All the bizarre religious hybrids that later became parts-and-parcel of American 'belief' (and later of post-Christianity and post-belief) had their origin in a spiritual dissatisfaction. A burning quest for new territories, new ways and means, new outlooks. All of this is quite evident from a sociological perspective. So, suffice to say (I think this can easily be made obvious) that in California it all matured and flowered in amazing, weird and bizarre ways. Christian-based revisionism, occultism, astrology, chakras, yoga, shamanism, Taoism, Buddhism, vegetarianism, and then of course everything associated with sexual liberation and extreme free-thinking: this is the stuff of American radicalism. And even the 'cults' that have become more or less mainstreamed -- Pentecostalism for example -- arose from the impetus established in the Burnt-over District. Consider as well 'the Woodstock generation', the artistic and radical political motivations that developed in my parent's generation. All avenues opened up and no avenue (even Satanism) became viable and somehow worthy of exploration.

Castaneda was a most amazing operator within a *cultural context* that was completely Californian. You could place him alongside The Source Family. When the Castanedan scene in LA fell to pieces I had the opportunity to examine it in some depth less by reading about it and more through direct contact with people who had been 'disciples' of CC. It is not hard to be fair in analyzing it: CC was involved in, and he created, a unique and bizarre 'spin' on the religious impetus. He melded philosophic concepts more peculiar to 20th century philosophy by placing the concepts in the pre-conquest and post-conquest world of 'Toltec seers'. This is not the place for a depth examination of this 'world' that CC created, and the cultish environment (so very LA) that he built, and which later imploded. The reason I mention any of this is because, if I had to be plain and direct, you are more or less imitating the paradigm that he employed. It is a mishmash of 'conceptual' pictures, combined with what I could call *genuine* (or in any case existent) spiritual practices, and you are creating a Picture that you then invite people to participate in.

One of the conversations I had with my dreamer friend "DL" touched on how people are *primed* by the fabulous book that then sets them up for a meeting with the Master. Take for example Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda:
Wiki wrote:Yogananda was among the first Indian religious teachers to settle in the US, and the first prominent Indian to be hosted in the White House (by President Calvin Coolidge in 1927); his early acclaim led to him being dubbed "the 20th century's first superstar guru" by the Los Angeles Times. Arriving in Boston in 1920, he embarked on a successful transcontinental speaking tour before settling in Los Angeles in 1925. For the next two and a half decades, he gained local fame and expanded his influence worldwide: he created a monastic order and trained disciples, went on teaching tours, bought properties for his organization in various California locales, and initiated thousands into Kriya Yoga. By 1952, SRF had over 100 centers in both India and the United States. As of 2012, they had groups in nearly every major American city. His "plain living and high thinking" principles attracted people from all backgrounds among his followers.
The book is filled to the brim with outrageous, over the top, fantastic stories of encounters with mysterious yogis in the 'imagined world' of mystical India. The book itself is an invitation to *enter* that imagined world and, imaginally, to participate in it through vicarious projection. And once you have read the book, and once you have absorbed and integrated the possibilities that it offers (again on the imagined level) you are ready to jump in yourself. It is actually quite similar, if I may say so, to the Bible stories and more specifically to the Gospel stories. In the Gospels you are, without knowing it, the reader who sees and understand what no one in the Story sees and understands. You are invited in as a participant but as a seer. You absorb the 'truths' presented as if they are or were real.

CC took this to a whole other level. He was a total fraud as an anthropologist and his doctoral thesis was faked. But when his doctoral thesis was published, the imagined world he pictured was taken up by a California subculture and the possibility of using peyote, psilocybin mushrooms as a means to self-exploration, escape for the doldrums of the Postwar suburban wasteland, and the attraction of philosophical and spiritual perspectives of a totally outrageous sort, quite literally took hold of a large segment of a whole generation. And CC saw his opportunity. He was a sly fox and quite adept at manipulating academic pretension to present an entire imagined world of seers, Naguals, sorcerers, even energy vampires who, by borrowing energy, managed not to die and to potentially live forever.

I have been participating on this Philosophy Now forum for quite some time now and if it is not obvious my area of concern and interest is not philosophy at a granular, academic level, but rather the ways that our thought about the world we live in evolves. I am more interested in *the average man* and how his perceptions mold and change, and what influences he exposes himself to, and how this is expressed culture-wide, than I am in some specific philosopher of perspective. These threads that deal on religious concepts (and metaphysics) seem to be the ones that attract interactions. The reason seems evident to me: It has to do with the way that interpretations of Reality are molded, reformed, revisioned, tweaked, restructured ...

Your system is rather odd because in that world you have demonic powers (Karmicons and 'Flyers') but only a modified version of the angelical. You angelical entities are not non-physical beings made of another substance entirely, but rather actual people living on 'higher planets' involved (I gather) in a Cosmic Battle to win over human culture that, as in the Matrix, are captured, and perhaps cultivated for nefarious purposes, by entities that they do not conceive as actually existing. The World then is a sort of mirage or a false-front that must be penetrated by unique understanding (gnosis in fact). Yet you play (if you permit the world) on the paranoid sense, or the shadow-sense, that such entities do in fact 'exist'. It is odd to me that you exclude *God* from the imagined world of your fantastic tale. However, I imagine that it fits culturally into an Eastern European post-Christian cultural world (?)
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

📣 General Announcement 📣

I did manage to find my way in lucid dreaming to the saffron feet of my belovèd guru, now fully absorbed back into the akashic fibres of the Universe.

After teary greetings, hand-signals and high-fives, followed by drinks and hours of rollicking jibber-jabber and gossip, he strenuously recommended, for humanity’s benefit, that I offer for sale to select personages vials of my urine that will be used to achieve deep states of union in those mystic levels of attention …

Four ounce vials: $800.00 (plus shipping/handling)

Twelve ounce vials: $1,299.00 (for today only!)

They’ll go quick so do not hesitate!
Impenitent
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Impenitent »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Oct 31, 2025 1:57 pm 📣 General Announcement 📣

I did manage to find my way in lucid dreaming to the saffron feet of my belovèd guru, now fully absorbed back into the akashic fibres of the Universe.

After teary greetings, hand-signals and high-fives, followed by drinks and hours of rollicking jibber-jabber and gossip, he strenuously recommended, for humanity’s benefit, that I offer for sale to select personages vials of my urine that will be used to achieve deep states of union in those mystic levels of attention …

Four ounce vials: $800.00 (plus shipping/handling)

Twelve ounce vials: $1,299.00 (for today only!)

They’ll go quick so do not hesitate!
I've heard of taking the piss before...

-Imp
Will Bouwman
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Will Bouwman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 2:49 pm
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 10:03 amDescartes failed to prove anything other than that there is thought.
Not quite. What he proved is only that we can't know with absolute certainty (that is, under the heuristic demand that we only believe that which is beyond even the most extreme possibilities of doubt) that there is anything other than a thought.
So you agree that your infinite regress argument doesn't prove that there must have been a transcendent origin for the universe.
Anyway, back to the piint:
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 10:03 amWhat are your grounds for asserting that whatever you believe is more probable than idealism?
Will Bouwman
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Will Bouwman »

seeds wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 6:27 pm
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 10:03 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Oct 27, 2025 8:42 pm
That means, "I think, therefore I am." I'm not sure how you think that raises an issue. You'll have to spell it out.
Descartes failed to prove anything other than that there is thought.
Far be it from me to interrupt your attempts to set IC straight,...

(and making it clear that we're being quite generous by using the word "prove" here)

...but, no, Descartes did not prove the existence of "thought," he proved the existence of the "thinker" of thought, or the "I Am."
Well, the standard objection to Desacartes is that it doesn't follow from 'there is a thought' that there is a thinker. So yes, you need to be a bit generous towards Descartes to accept the Cogito as he presents it.
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Belinda »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 3:45 pm
Senad Dizdarevic wrote: Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:27 am I live in Europe, so the CC scene was far away. In those without internet, it was hard to get his books, let alone insider information.

When you know that your life was fully scripted in advance, even 100 and more years before your birth, then you know that "omens" are also fabricated.

In the DJ times, there were deciphering birds flying, presenting it as a good or bad omen flying to the south or to the north.

Today, people watch repeating numbers on their phones and digital clocks, guessing what 11:11 could mean.

The karmicons put some signs into our lives, especially at the big crossroads in life, to drive us in the right direction. Even if you don't see or understand them, you can't fail - you will execute their program and do exactly what is in your script.

You can read more about the preparation of humans from other planets for incarnations in Michael Duff Newton's Books. The karmicons pre-wrote it - like all books except mine - so there are many lies, but enough truth to get a good picture of their work.

There is also a very interesting short book, The Nine Steps: A Story of Birth and Rebirth by French authors Anne Givaudan and Daniel Meurois.

When I read Rebecca's statement that at the birth of a child, people cry on other planets, and when we die, they are happy, I knew that something was totally wrong with the story about incarnations as voluntary self-development in the "School of Life". Later, I learned that all incarnations are forced.

Speaking about signs, my book series are one of the best signs ever, as they present the truth about the Karmic Organization, and the fantastic future waiting for us.
My position is that of observer, from a philosophical and also ethnological and sociological position, of cultural trends. And of course I am interested in religion, the religious perspective, but primarily because I am interested in metaphysics. And my definition of metaphysics is rather simplistic: I see *the world* (i.e. Nature, the material and biological) as operating according to laws and processes that are 'mindless' and (from our perspective) absolutely cruel and unforgiving. Though like Don Señor Seeds I do notice that 'our world' is simultaneously amazingly beautiful and wondrous and like anyone I marvel at the fact that it exists. I.e. that there exists this *space* (loka in Sanskrit) where, somehow or other, we appear and we take place. Similar to the view which you have emphasized, it is easy for me to speculate that just as our 'sphere' exists, that any number of other such spheres exist, and that beings with consciousness are ubiquitous in this Cosmos.

Metaphysics is a conceived-of or even imagined world that is superimposed over the actual world. I do not discount what is metaphysical as being unreal. In fact what is conceived of metaphysically determines everything in the human world. We are metaphysical beings.

When we consider *metaphysical pictures* we have a great deal to examine. The most primitive would be shamanistic perspectives and the picture of a man alone facing the terrible and terrifying world and relying on his wits and his strength to make his way through. In that circumstance man relies on 'signs and omens' and also spirits and demi-gods for success in the hunt.

That way of life (here in America) was explored a great deal in the 60s and 70s (and later) by post-Christians who became unmoored from their grounding in conventional, religious pictures. One has to take into consideration that with the so-called *death of god* (the killing of an unbelievable 'picture' of man, the world, the universe, being and all the rest) that it was quite natural, and inevitable, that people would be thrown back upon themselves and start to examine other 'pictures' and also tactics and techniques. Certainly CG Jung was a major player in exploring an entire ground that had been left behind, or been submerged and repressed, by the assault against everything 'pagan'. An entire intelligentsia in Europe recoiled back into themselves when the road forward as defined by the Christian picture (the *horizon* as Nietzsche put it) collapsed, which it certainly did. (CC took the *hunter's mentality' and turned it into an elaborate 'stalker's' philosophy.)

Castaneda is a peculiarly potent figure, and utterly and completely Californian, and to understand his advent one has to go back 150 years to specific currents that began to operate on the East Coast in the Burned-over District. All the bizarre religious hybrids that later became parts-and-parcel of American 'belief' (and later of post-Christianity and post-belief) had their origin in a spiritual dissatisfaction. A burning quest for new territories, new ways and means, new outlooks. All of this is quite evident from a sociological perspective. So, suffice to say (I think this can easily be made obvious) that in California it all matured and flowered in amazing, weird and bizarre ways. Christian-based revisionism, occultism, astrology, chakras, yoga, shamanism, Taoism, Buddhism, vegetarianism, and then of course everything associated with sexual liberation and extreme free-thinking: this is the stuff of American radicalism. And even the 'cults' that have become more or less mainstreamed -- Pentecostalism for example -- arose from the impetus established in the Burnt-over District. Consider as well 'the Woodstock generation', the artistic and radical political motivations that developed in my parent's generation. All avenues opened up and no avenue (even Satanism) became viable and somehow worthy of exploration.

Castaneda was a most amazing operator within a *cultural context* that was completely Californian. You could place him alongside The Source Family. When the Castanedan scene in LA fell to pieces I had the opportunity to examine it in some depth less by reading about it and more through direct contact with people who had been 'disciples' of CC. It is not hard to be fair in analyzing it: CC was involved in, and he created, a unique and bizarre 'spin' on the religious impetus. He melded philosophic concepts more peculiar to 20th century philosophy by placing the concepts in the pre-conquest and post-conquest world of 'Toltec seers'. This is not the place for a depth examination of this 'world' that CC created, and the cultish environment (so very LA) that he built, and which later imploded. The reason I mention any of this is because, if I had to be plain and direct, you are more or less imitating the paradigm that he employed. It is a mishmash of 'conceptual' pictures, combined with what I could call *genuine* (or in any case existent) spiritual practices, and you are creating a Picture that you then invite people to participate in.

One of the conversations I had with my dreamer friend "DL" touched on how people are *primed* by the fabulous book that then sets them up for a meeting with the Master. Take for example Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda:
Wiki wrote:Yogananda was among the first Indian religious teachers to settle in the US, and the first prominent Indian to be hosted in the White House (by President Calvin Coolidge in 1927); his early acclaim led to him being dubbed "the 20th century's first superstar guru" by the Los Angeles Times. Arriving in Boston in 1920, he embarked on a successful transcontinental speaking tour before settling in Los Angeles in 1925. For the next two and a half decades, he gained local fame and expanded his influence worldwide: he created a monastic order and trained disciples, went on teaching tours, bought properties for his organization in various California locales, and initiated thousands into Kriya Yoga. By 1952, SRF had over 100 centers in both India and the United States. As of 2012, they had groups in nearly every major American city. His "plain living and high thinking" principles attracted people from all backgrounds among his followers.
The book is filled to the brim with outrageous, over the top, fantastic stories of encounters with mysterious yogis in the 'imagined world' of mystical India. The book itself is an invitation to *enter* that imagined world and, imaginally, to participate in it through vicarious projection. And once you have read the book, and once you have absorbed and integrated the possibilities that it offers (again on the imagined level) you are ready to jump in yourself. It is actually quite similar, if I may say so, to the Bible stories and more specifically to the Gospel stories. In the Gospels you are, without knowing it, the reader who sees and understand what no one in the Story sees and understands. You are invited in as a participant but as a seer. You absorb the 'truths' presented as if they are or were real.

CC took this to a whole other level. He was a total fraud as an anthropologist and his doctoral thesis was faked. But when his doctoral thesis was published, the imagined world he pictured was taken up by a California subculture and the possibility of using peyote, psilocybin mushrooms as a means to self-exploration, escape for the doldrums of the Postwar suburban wasteland, and the attraction of philosophical and spiritual perspectives of a totally outrageous sort, quite literally took hold of a large segment of a whole generation. And CC saw his opportunity. He was a sly fox and quite adept at manipulating academic pretension to present an entire imagined world of seers, Naguals, sorcerers, even energy vampires who, by borrowing energy, managed not to die and to potentially live forever.

I have been participating on this Philosophy Now forum for quite some time now and if it is not obvious my area of concern and interest is not philosophy at a granular, academic level, but rather the ways that our thought about the world we live in evolves. I am more interested in *the average man* and how his perceptions mold and change, and what influences he exposes himself to, and how this is expressed culture-wide, than I am in some specific philosopher of perspective. These threads that deal on religious concepts (and metaphysics) seem to be the ones that attract interactions. The reason seems evident to me: It has to do with the way that interpretations of Reality are molded, reformed, revisioned, tweaked, restructured ...

Your system is rather odd because in that world you have demonic powers (Karmicons and 'Flyers') but only a modified version of the angelical. You angelical entities are not non-physical beings made of another substance entirely, but rather actual people living on 'higher planets' involved (I gather) in a Cosmic Battle to win over human culture that, as in the Matrix, are captured, and perhaps cultivated for nefarious purposes, by entities that they do not conceive as actually existing. The World then is a sort of mirage or a false-front that must be penetrated by unique understanding (gnosis in fact). Yet you play (if you permit the world) on the paranoid sense, or the shadow-sense, that such entities do in fact 'exist'. It is odd to me that you exclude *God* from the imagined world of your fantastic tale. However, I imagine that it fits culturally into an Eastern European post-Christian cultural world (?)
Alexis wrote:-


I am more interested in *the average man* and how his perceptions mold and change, and what influences he exposes himself to, and how this is expressed culture-wide,

You address cui bono in connection with metaphysical horizons but your take on what constitutes culture misses political affiliations as cultural phenomena. Why is this?
Belinda
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Belinda »

Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 8:04 am
seeds wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 6:27 pm
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 10:03 am
Descartes failed to prove anything other than that there is thought.
Far be it from me to interrupt your attempts to set IC straight,...

(and making it clear that we're being quite generous by using the word "prove" here)

...but, no, Descartes did not prove the existence of "thought," he proved the existence of the "thinker" of thought, or the "I Am."
Well, the standard objection to Desacartes is that it doesn't follow from 'there is a thought' that there is a thinker. So yes, you need to be a bit generous towards Descartes to accept the Cogito as he presents it.
For Descartes, God is the transcendent guarantor of truth and existence.This why. for Descartes who is a Rationalist, God guarantees that rational thought is a direct line to the transcendent God.
When Descartes says “I think, therefore I am”, that gives him one indubitable truth. But to trust that all clear and distinct ideas are true, he needs assurance that his intellect is not being deceived — and that assurance comes from a benevolent, non-deceptive God. The Thinker ,who is part of the single word 'cogito' meaning "I think" who is thinking rationally ,is guaranteed by God.

Hence, God “guarantees” rational truth.
Belinda
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Belinda »

Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 8:04 am
seeds wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 6:27 pm
Will Bouwman wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 10:03 am
Descartes failed to prove anything other than that there is thought.
Far be it from me to interrupt your attempts to set IC straight,...

(and making it clear that we're being quite generous by using the word "prove" here)

...but, no, Descartes did not prove the existence of "thought," he proved the existence of the "thinker" of thought, or the "I Am."
Well, the standard objection to Desacartes is that it doesn't follow from 'there is a thought' that there is a thinker. So yes, you need to be a bit generous towards Descartes to accept the Cogito as he presents it.
ChatGPT:-
(Me)Can you please write a short explanation how thought and extension are coordinated by God for the online discussion group where the problem lies in the Cogito.

(ChatGPT)
How Thought and Extension Are Coordinated by God (in response to the Cogito problem)

Descartes’ Cogito (“I think, therefore I am”) establishes the certainty of thought, but it immediately raises a deeper problem: if mind (thought) and body (extension) are entirely distinct substances, how can they interact or correspond?

Different philosophers offered theological solutions to this Cartesian gap.

Malebranche proposed Occasionalism: mind and body do not truly affect one another; rather, God directly causes each event of correspondence. When the mind wills the arm to move, it is God who moves it.

Leibniz proposed Pre-established Harmony: God created mind and body as perfectly synchronized systems from the start — like two clocks ticking in unison without direct causal influence.

In both views, God is the coordinating principle that bridges the ontological divide exposed by the Cogito. The human subject discovers thinking as certain, but only divine agency can guarantee that thought aligns with bodily motion and the external world.

Would you like me to add a brief Spinozist counterpoint — explaining how he dissolves the need for coordination by redefining thought and extension as two attributes of one substance?

(Ends ChatGPT)
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Belinda wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 12:07 pm
Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 8:04 am
seeds wrote: Tue Oct 28, 2025 6:27 pm
Far be it from me to interrupt your attempts to set IC straight,...

(and making it clear that we're being quite generous by using the word "prove" here)

...but, no, Descartes did not prove the existence of "thought," he proved the existence of the "thinker" of thought, or the "I Am."
Well, the standard objection to Desacartes is that it doesn't follow from 'there is a thought' that there is a thinker. So yes, you need to be a bit generous towards Descartes to accept the Cogito as he presents it.
ChatGPT:-
(Me)Can you please write a short explanation how thought and extension are coordinated by God for the online discussion group where the problem lies in the Cogito.

(ChatGPT)
How Thought and Extension Are Coordinated by God (in response to the Cogito problem)

Descartes’ Cogito (“I think, therefore I am”) establishes the certainty of thought, but it immediately raises a deeper problem: if mind (thought) and body (extension) are entirely distinct substances, how can they interact or correspond?
Given what Seeds wrote, and Willy B's response to Seeds, I suspect you gave GPT the wrong problem there.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Belinda wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 11:33 am You address cui bono in connection with metaphysical horizons but your take on what constitutes culture misses political affiliations as cultural phenomena. Why is this?
I’ve puzzled over your question for a few minutes and I think I sort of grasp where you desire to go with it. But it is really your idea to develop.
Belinda
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Re: The first valid evidence that god does NOT exist

Post by Belinda »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 12:48 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 12:07 pm
Will Bouwman wrote: Sat Nov 01, 2025 8:04 am
Well, the standard objection to Desacartes is that it doesn't follow from 'there is a thought' that there is a thinker. So yes, you need to be a bit generous towards Descartes to accept the Cogito as he presents it.
ChatGPT:-
(Me)Can you please write a short explanation how thought and extension are coordinated by God for the online discussion group where the problem lies in the Cogito.

(ChatGPT)
How Thought and Extension Are Coordinated by God (in response to the Cogito problem)

Descartes’ Cogito (“I think, therefore I am”) establishes the certainty of thought, but it immediately raises a deeper problem: if mind (thought) and body (extension) are entirely distinct substances, how can they interact or correspond?
Given what Seeds wrote, and Willy B's response to Seeds, I suspect you gave GPT the wrong problem there.
I thought it may be unclear. What it is, is that for Descartes the thinker IS mind i.e. that which thinks, Res Cogitans : and extension is the thinker's body and tables and stuff; so how can mind and body communicate with each other. And it's the communication problem that Willy B, points to
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