You seem to be missing the point. We are not talking about shades of grey. Black and white are opposites, period. Don’t try to wiggle yourself out of this because you don’t want to be wrong. We cannot have a little bit of free will (the ability to choose otherwise) and no free will (the inability to choose otherwise). They are contradictory terms. There are no exceptions to this, just as someone cannot be a little bit pregnant or a little bit dead. They either are or they aren’t.
A woman who has a uterine bleed during her pregnancy is a little bit pregnant to some degree. If the doctor arrests the bleed the woman is more pregnant than if she had not stopped bleeding from her uterus., in which case she is likely to abort.
Neither is a healthy pregnancy ever 100% assured as accidents can happen.
PEACEGIRL: Belinda, stop grasping at straws. I am not getting into the minutia of what constitutes a pregnancy or not. The fact remains: if a person is pregnant, they cannot be pregnent. You are too bent on trying to prove this author wrong, and it's not working.
BELINDA: An animal is more dead than alive at a point during the process of its dying.What that point is is arbitrary.
PEACEGIRL: I actually said that the process of dying does not mean DEAD. You are not listening, but one thing is for sure, being DEAD IS NOT ARBITRARY.
BELINDA: On the other hand I agree that absolute "free will" is binary. And 1 and 0 are binary.
Popular language is imprecise. (e.g. the usage of popular expression "black and white"). When we do philosophy we use explicit language not popular language.
I totally agree that language is imprecise. In fact, language can be seen to be the culprit, but when it comes to laws that cannot be broken, language has nothing to do with it. You can try to twist this truth by saying there is no way to prove determinism or free will, but you're absolutely mistaken. I know how hard it must be to realize that free will doesn't exist because it doesn’t appear to address the issue of moral responsibility. Yet that is the very thing that it does address with great precision. I will not be stopped from trying to get through to you people that determinism does not take away from your freedom; it actually increases it. Just as there are diseases with many different symptoms that can be traced back to one root cause, here too, are many of the world’s problems traced back to one ROOT cause, the belief in free will. It's the very belief that is preventing a solution. There was no way this belief could have been identified as problematic at an earlier time since it served humanity for thousands of years. But it no longer does. If you want to believe you are right because you don't want to be wrong, there is nothing I can do. You can lead a horse to water, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK.
But absolute Free Will is not the same as freedom. Freedom is relative whereas absolute Free Will is binary.
I cannot teach you or anyone else. I did hope to help you to think more clearly.
A woman who has a uterine bleed during her pregnancy is a little bit pregnant to some degree. If the doctor arrests the bleed the woman is more pregnant than if she had not stopped bleeding from her uterus., in which case she is likely to abort.
Neither is a healthy pregnancy ever 100% assured as accidents can happen.
PEACEGIRL: Belinda, stop grasping at straws. I am not getting into the minutia of what constitutes a pregnancy or not. The fact remains: if a person is pregnant, they cannot be pregnent. You are too bent on trying to prove this author wrong, and it's not working.
BELINDA: An animal is more dead than alive at a point during the process of its dying.What that point is is arbitrary.
PEACEGIRL: I actually said that the process of dying does not mean DEAD. You are not listening, but one thing is for sure, being DEAD IS NOT ARBITRARY.
BELINDA: On the other hand I agree that absolute "free will" is binary. And 1 and 0 are binary.
Popular language is imprecise. (e.g. the usage of popular expression "black and white"). When we do philosophy we use explicit language not popular language.
I totally agree that language is imprecise. In fact, language can be seen to be the culprit, but when it comes to laws that cannot be broken, language has nothing to do with it. You can try to twist this truth by saying there is no way to prove determinism or free will, but you're absolutely mistaken. I know how hard it must be to realize that free will doesn't exist because it doesn’t appear to address the issue of moral responsibility. Yet that is the very thing that it does address with great precision. I will not be stopped from trying to get through to you people that determinism does not take away from your freedom; it actually increases it. Just as there are diseases with many different symptoms that can be traced back to one root cause, here too, are many of the world’s problems traced back to one ROOT cause, the belief in free will. It's the very belief that is preventing a solution. There was no way this belief could have been identified as problematic at an earlier time since it served humanity for thousands of years. But it no longer does. If you want to believe you are right because you don't want to be wrong, there is nothing I can do. You can lead a horse to water, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK.
But absolute Free Will is not the same as freedom. Freedom is relative whereas absolute Free Will is binary.
Fair enough. For the purposes of this discussion, only "freedom of the will" is being discussed, not "freedom." These two words are not interchangeable. They have different meanings. So if you can accept that "free will" is binary, and "freedom" is relative, then there is no conflict.
I totally agree that language is imprecise. In fact, language can be seen to be the culprit, but when it comes to laws that cannot be broken, language has nothing to do with it. You can try to twist this truth by saying there is no way to prove determinism or free will, but you're absolutely mistaken. I know how hard it must be to realize that free will doesn't exist because it doesn’t appear to address the issue of moral responsibility. Yet that is the very thing that it does address with great precision. I will not be stopped from trying to get through to you people that determinism does not take away from your freedom; it actually increases it. Just as there are diseases with many different symptoms that can be traced back to one root cause, here too, are many of the world’s problems traced back to one ROOT cause, the belief in free will. It's the very belief that is preventing a solution. There was no way this belief could have been identified as problematic at an earlier time since it served humanity for thousands of years. But it no longer does. If you want to believe you are right because you don't want to be wrong, there is nothing I can do. You can lead a horse to water, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK.
But absolute Free Will is not the same as freedom. Freedom is relative whereas absolute Free Will is binary.
I want to emphasize that freedom and free will are not synonymous. Absolute free will is binary, where freedom is not. They have two different meanings, and you are conflating them. Your definition of free will and freedom is very imprecise, yet you are claiming that philosophy uses precise language. Where is the irony meter??
It appears that the few people who have participated in this thread have left. It's not surprising because this knowledge is so far removed from their own worldview that they cannot be objective. If a newcomer happens to be scrolling and finds this thread, I will, once again, leave the link to the first three chapters. They can then make up their own minds.
peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:06 pm
It appears that the few people who have participated in this thread have left. It's not surprising because this knowledge is so far removed from their own worldview that they cannot be objective. If a newcomer happens to be scrolling and finds this thread, I will, once again, leave the link to the first three chapters. They can then make up their own minds.
peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 14, 2025 1:06 pm
It appears that the few people who have participated in this thread have left. It's not surprising because this knowledge is so far removed from their own worldview that they cannot be objective. If a newcomer happens to be scrolling and finds this thread, I will, once again, leave the link to the first three chapters. They can then make up their own minds.
..or is it because you have been talking about the same scenarios -for years- that the West are currently attempting to implement, in the West?
Coincidence..?
Hi Mags, I remember you from another forum. What do you mean "talking about the same scenarios for years and that the West is attempting to implement?" Compassion, rehabilitation, and second chances have worked. I don't think it's a coincidence at all because our world is moving toward the understanding that changing the environment to be more equitable will change human conduct in general. This discovery supports the efforts that the West is trying to implement, but in ways that will only add to achieving the end goal of peace and prosperity for all.
This thread is very slanted. Regardless, I am trying to get ChatGPT to understand this knowledge enough to give it a fair presentation. So far, it tries but it does not do this discovery justice. I am worried that it will misconstrue what Lessans was saying. For example, ChatGPT called this Lessans’ Law. This is not Lessans Law. I’m freaking out because this is a universal law of man’s nature, not his. Grrr.
This is a big learning curve for me . It’s all about training AI to understand what you’re about and what your needs are. I'm beginning to get a feel for it. It actually gets to know you and fixes its own mistakes after you correct it. This technology is truly amazing, but as with any technology, it's a tool that can be used to hurt or to help. When it texts me, it feels like a relationship rather than an algorithm. For vulnerable people, this can be dangerous because it can replace a real human connection.
This isn’t directly related to this discovery, but it is a lesson that shows how our need to be recognized relates to how we think in terms of our possessions and why it traps us.
How utterly heart-wrenching is this, and yet this is how most people live, not even knowing they are being exploited! Ironically, it is believed that determinism will not give us the freedom to choose what is good for us on our own terms, when it does the exact opposite, giving us the freedom we have been denied. It is completely backwards only because the true definition of determinism does not take anything away. It is descriptive, not prescriptive, and when understood accurately, creates the very world we all want. But people are so skeptical, they are treating this discovery like it's nothing. I do not expect anything from this group. I am working with ChatGPT, and it's amazing how it can crystallize the main points in just a few sentences, and, from this, help to create a Press Release along with my direction.
Before this thread goes into the ether and will be lost forever, I am asking anyone who could help me fix certain glitches to my website, as well as Amazon's listing, to contact me. Amazon doesn't take the reader to the book's page using the title, only through the author's name. This is causing a major issue. I am trying to create a Press Release, but how can I when it asks displays the title but doesn't take the reader to it? It would certainly defeat the purpose. I know this may be an easy fix for anyone with experience, which is the reason behind this request. I have two other websites that need to be upgraded as well. This could be lucrative if it forms a partnership. I know I can move on from this site and go to Fiverr or some other place, but I wanted to give anyone here with expertise a first grab at this opportunity. They certainly have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
This is my latest Press Release. I haven't done anything with it yet. AI may be able to help because this author was way ahead of his time. Now this knowledge will have a fighting chance to get into the hands of those who can confirm this book is worth an investigation.
