HUMANS DO NOT ACT, BUT REACT, SO MUCH FOR FREE WILL

[Gary Childress]

Your biological essence wouldn't be governed by the ever-changing Earth. To you, the earth is cause, and in your reactions, you become cause to earth in whatever measure. The reciprocations I mentioned above.

Can you expand on that. I'm not understanding your answer and how it relates to free will--especially as to how it serves as proof of no free will.

Well, if there is no such thing as human action, and all organisms are reactionary creatures, that means they are all governed by their larger reality/earth, thus, they are not free agents but parts of a whole. Yourself is much larger than you imagine.

I don't see how that ties in with my example of choosing to react one way over another. How does that demonstrate that choosing one action over another isn't done with free will?

[popeye1945]

Can you expand on that. I'm not understanding your answer and how it relates to free will--especially as to how it serves as proof of no free will.

Well, if there is no such thing as human action, and all organisms are reactionary creatures, that means they are all governed by their larger reality/earth, thus, they are not free agents but parts of a whole. Yourself is much larger than you imagine.

I don't see how that ties in with my example of choosing to react one way over another. How does that demonstrate that choosing one action over another isn't done with free will?

No matter how many times you change your mind, it is always motivated with intent, thus a reaction to something outside yourself or to something within your larger self/the Earth. That which is motivated is a reaction, not an action. The one thing you cannot do as an organism is not react to your environment or your larger self/Earth. Even a decisive lack of behaviour is a reaction to your environment. This, to get a bit biblical, is participation in divinity you are at one with. You do have choices, and if that is all you need to convince yourself of free will, you've got it, but all choices are motivated from without and thus reactions.

[Gary Childress]

Well, if there is no such thing as human action, and all organisms are reactionary creatures, that means they are all governed by their larger reality/earth, thus, they are not free agents but parts of a whole. Yourself is much larger than you imagine.

I don't see how that ties in with my example of choosing to react one way over another. How does that demonstrate that choosing one action over another isn't done with free will?

No matter how many times you change your mind, it is always motivated with intent, thus a reaction to something outside yourself or to something within your larger self/the Earth. That which is motivated is a reaction, not an action. The one thing you cannot do as an organism is not react to your environment or your larger self/Earth. Even a decisive lack of behaviour is a reaction to your environment. This, to get a bit biblical, is participation in divinity you are at one with. You do have choices, and if that is all you need to convince yourself of free will, you've got it, but all choices are motivated from without and thus reactions.

So if everything is a reaction, does that prove that certain reactions can't be chosen freely over others? Does that show there's no such thing as free will?

[popeye1945]

I don't see how that ties in with my example of choosing to react one way over another. How does that demonstrate that choosing one action over another isn't done with free will?

No matter how many times you change your mind, it is always motivated with intent, thus a reaction to something outside yourself or to something within your larger self/the Earth. That which is motivated is a reaction, not an action. The one thing you cannot do as an organism is not react to your environment or your larger self/Earth. Even a decisive lack of behaviour is a reaction to your environment. This, to get a bit biblical, is participation in divinity you are at one with. You do have choices, and if that is all you need to convince yourself of free will, you've got it, but all choices are motivated from without and thus reactions.

So if everything is a reaction, does that prove that certain reactions can't be chosen freely over others? Does that show there's no such thing as free will?

Well, most people consider free will to be dependent upon a free agent being ungoverned; however, if all is a reaction to the outside world and the cosmos in the form of reactions, it cannot be said that there is free will, free from what? You are a functioning part of the world, and your reaction is how you belong. You have some range, but all motivations come from your larger self/Earth. Keep in mind also that cause and reaction are the essence of change

[Age]

breathe

-Imp

EXACTLEY!! Each breath is highly motivated but from within, requiring what is without. Reaction here is automated in the brainstem.

This is a challenge, folks, show me the errors of my ways, give me one example of a human action!

How are you defining 'action', here, exactly?

See, to me, a person does not have control of bodily 'actions', they do, however, have control over how the body 'behaves', and this is solely because people can choose, whether the body behaves, or misbehaves.

Although every person is limited by the amount of 'choices' that they can 'choose' from, every person certainly has the 'ability to choose'. Which, to me, is just what the words and term 'free will' are meaning and/or referring to, exactly?

Now, if you have a specific definition for the words, and term, 'free will', then what is 'that', exactly?

[Age]

This is a challenge, folks, show me the errors of my ways, give me one example of a human action!

Choosing to forgive instead of cursing someone who cuts you off in traffic.

No, those who cut you off in traffic motivated you,

Only if you 'choose' to be 'motivated' by 'another'.

The Truly 'grown up' and 'mature' one is not necessarily 'motivated' by other things, and this is because 'this one' has fully control over the emotions and emotions, within.

but probably some preconditioning told you that you should make another choice, and an alternate reaction.

When you say and use the word 'probably', here, what do you mean, exactly?

Because, from the word 'probably', here, it could be inferred that there might not be 'some preconditioning'. And, if there is not, then that would mean the exact opposite of what you are 'trying to' claim, and fight for, here, correct?

Anything that is motivated, spurring intent, is a reaction.

[Age]

No, those who cut you off in traffic motivated you, but probably some preconditioning told you that you should make another choice, and an alternate reaction. Anything that is motivated, spurring intent, is a reaction.

So by definition, everything that has happened since the very first action, is just a reaction? Making the choice to react one way instead of another isn't "free will"?

Supposedly, the first action was by God, the unmoved mover.

But, please do not be fooled, nor tricked and deceived, into believing that the so-claimed 'first action was by God, the so-called unmoved Mover', happened at some time, in 'the past', prior to 'you'.

Now,

I agree there is no such thing as free will.

Who are you 'agreeing with', here, exactly?

For was it not you who started this thread to 'try to' argue and fight for you already maintained position that there is no 'free will', at all?

All organisms are reactive organisms and governed by the larger reality of the Earth and the cosmos.

The earth and the 'cosmos' is not really the so-called 'larger reality' compared to the Universe, itself. But, then again, you might mean Universe when you say and write the word, 'cosmos', anyway.

If this were not so, evolutionary adaptations would not be possible. All diseases are reactions to something, whether internal or external. All beings can be a cause to other beings, and their reactions in turn become further causes to their outer world; a chain of reciprocations is reality.

Now, obviously absolutely every thing is be-cause of some thing prior. But, what is also obvious is that you human beings are 'able to make choices', especially in regards to if you 'behave', or 'misbehave'. Which, when the words, and term, 'free will' is applied to 'this ability to choose' means that you human beings actually do have 'free will'.

[Age]

How would evolutionary adaptation be impossible if there were free will?

Your biological essence wouldn't be governed by the ever-changing Earth. To you, the earth is cause, and in your reactions, you become cause to earth in whatever measure. The reciprocations I mentioned above.

Can you expand on that. I'm not understanding your answer and how it relates to free will--especially as to how it serves as proof of no free will.

I will, again, suggest that you two 'define' the words, and term, 'free will', first, than, and only then, you two will find out, uncover, and 'have revealed' if what those two words are meaning, and/or are referring to, exactly, exists or not.

Finding and discovering the Truth of things really is that simple, and that easy.

Maybe if you two just try 'it' , here, then you will discover if 'it' works, or not.

[Age]

Your biological essence wouldn't be governed by the ever-changing Earth. To you, the earth is cause, and in your reactions, you become cause to earth in whatever measure. The reciprocations I mentioned above.

Can you expand on that. I'm not understanding your answer and how it relates to free will--especially as to how it serves as proof of no free will.

Well, if there is no such thing as human action, and all organisms are reactionary creatures, that means they are all governed by their larger reality/earth, thus, they are not free agents but parts of a whole. Yourself is much larger than you imagine.

The word, and term, "yourself" is an oxymoron. As any one could and would find out if they every tried to define that word, exactly.

[Age]

Well, if there is no such thing as human action, and all organisms are reactionary creatures, that means they are all governed by their larger reality/earth, thus, they are not free agents but parts of a whole. Yourself is much larger than you imagine.

I don't see how that ties in with my example of choosing to react one way over another. How does that demonstrate that choosing one action over another isn't done with free will?

No matter how many times you change your mind, it is always motivated with intent, thus a reaction to something outside yourself or to something within your larger self/the Earth.

Why do you believe, absolutely, that 'motivated with intent' is 'a reaction' to some thing outside of 'you'?

Can no human being be 'motivated, with intent' to just want to 'live in peace', for example, without 'the intent', or without 'the motivation', from some thing outside, like, for example, when you are just laying on a bed or sitting on a chair?

Also, what even is your 'larger self', exactly?

Would not the 'larger self', just be the biggest or largest One, Self, or what some might just call the Spirit, Allah, God, Enlightened One anyway?

And, if this One is the One with 'first cause' and/or is the 'unmoved Mover', then this would imply that It is the Acting, or the non 'reacting' One, right?

That which is motivated is a reaction, not an action. The one thing you cannot do as an organism is not react to your environment or your larger self/Earth.

Why do you use the 'earth' word, in relation to the 'larger' word, when obviously the earth is nothing but a very tiny insignificant thing, in Life, Itself?

Even a decisive lack of behaviour is a reaction to your environment. This, to get a bit biblical, is participation in divinity you are at one with. You do have choices, and if that is all you need to convince yourself of free will, you've got it, but all choices are motivated from without and thus reactions.

Obviously all choices are motivated from outside of 'the body' as well as from within 'the body'. Was this just not an already known Fact?

Whatever happens, happens because of pre-existing events. So, whatever will happen, will happen, also, because of previous events. But, what is just as obvious is that you human beings, from a 'certain age' have the 'ability to make choices', over whether you behave, or misbehave. Which will, obviously, cause, an effect, (to get biblical), in whether you human beings live, here, on earth, as it is in a 'heaven-like' place, or, as it is in a 'hell-like' place, here.

your individual 'choices' make all 'the difference'.

And, it is 'your ability to choose', which some refer to as 'free will', itself.

[Age]

No matter how many times you change your mind, it is always motivated with intent, thus a reaction to something outside yourself or to something within your larger self/the Earth. That which is motivated is a reaction, not an action. The one thing you cannot do as an organism is not react to your environment or your larger self/Earth. Even a decisive lack of behaviour is a reaction to your environment. This, to get a bit biblical, is participation in divinity you are at one with. You do have choices, and if that is all you need to convince yourself of free will, you've got it, but all choices are motivated from without and thus reactions.

So if everything is a reaction, does that prove that certain reactions can't be chosen freely over others? Does that show there's no such thing as free will?

Well, most people consider free will to be dependent upon a free agent being ungoverned, but if all is reaction to the outside world and the cosmos in the form of reactions, it cannot be said that there is free will, free from what?

How about 'we' not be, at all, concerned about 'what most people consider', or more correct what they 'might' consider, and instead you just provide 'your definition' of what the words and term 'free will' means, and is referring to, exactly. See, if you do 'this', then 'we' can decide if there is 'free will' or not. Also, and by the way, you are only 'guessing' only 'what most people consider', anyway.

Now, saying and/or claiming, 'if all is reaction (to the outside world and the cosmos) in the form of reactions', is just a tautology.

And, 'free' from 'what', means, being 'free' from 'not having the ability to choose'.

You are a functioning part of the world, and your reaction is how you belong.

Every thing, besides the One and only eternal and infinite Universe, of course, is just 'a part of' the Universe, Itself.

And, of course, all of 'these parts/things' react to prior effects and causes. Whereas the Universe, Itself, is in a one continual evolutionary-reaction process. Also known as Creation, Itself.

You have some range, but all motivations come from your larger self/Earth.

Obviously even 'the motivation' to 'just live, and remain alive', which is naturally within all things, comes from the natural energy inherent within all things. This 'energy', by the way, is sometimes Wrongly referred to as the 'Life force' within.

[Gary Childress]

No matter how many times you change your mind, it is always motivated with intent, thus a reaction to something outside yourself or to something within your larger self/the Earth. That which is motivated is a reaction, not an action. The one thing you cannot do as an organism is not react to your environment or your larger self/Earth. Even a decisive lack of behaviour is a reaction to your environment. This, to get a bit biblical, is participation in divinity you are at one with. You do have choices, and if that is all you need to convince yourself of free will, you've got it, but all choices are motivated from without and thus reactions.

So if everything is a reaction, does that prove that certain reactions can't be chosen freely over others? Does that show there's no such thing as free will?

Well, most people consider free will to be dependent upon a free agent being ungoverned; however, if all is a reaction to the outside world and the cosmos in the form of reactions, it cannot be said that there is free will, free from what? You are a functioning part of the world, and your reaction is how you belong. You have some range, but all motivations come from your larger self/Earth. Keep in mind also that cause and reaction are the essence of change

How do you define "free will". I usually think of free will as opposite to "determinism" and I think of determinism as how Newtonian physics works. According to Newtonian physics all identical actions will produce the exact same reaction EVERY SINGLE TIME. There's no means by which to deviate from a specific action if the same circumstances are the case. Is the same true of human beings? If all things are equal, can a human being not but do the exact same reaction every time in response to the same action? Free will is not like physics, it is the ability to produce a reaction that is not absolutely the same, that is not predictable based on mathematical calculations.

As far as I'm aware, there's no proof that human reactions are performed of free will or determined. If you want to pretend that you know there's no free will, that's fine. But just a head's up, it's speculation on your part.

[popeye1945]

So if everything is a reaction, does that prove that certain reactions can't be chosen freely over others? Does that show there's no such thing as free will?

Well, most people consider free will to be dependent upon a free agent being ungoverned; however, if all is a reaction to the outside world and the cosmos in the form of reactions, it cannot be said that there is free will, free from what? You are a functioning part of the world, and your reaction is how you belong. You have some range, but all motivations come from your larger self/Earth. Keep in mind also that cause and reaction are the essence of change

How do you define "free will". I usually think of free will as opposite to "determinism" and I think of determinism as how Newtonian physics works. According to Newtonian physics all identical actions will produce the exact same reaction EVERY SINGLE TIME. There's no means by which to deviate from a specific action if the same circumstances are the case. Is the same true of human beings? If all things are equal, can a human being not but do the exact same reaction every time in response to the same action? Free will is not like physics, it is the ability to produce a reaction that is not absolutely the same, that is not predictable based on mathematical calculations.

As far as I'm aware, there's no proof that human reactions are performed of free will or determined. If you want to pretend that you know there's no free will, that's fine. But just a head's up, it's speculation on your part.

Sorry, I'll get back to you later. The post I worked on just disappeared

[popeye1945]

Well, most people consider free will to be dependent upon a free agent being ungoverned; however, if all is a reaction to the outside world and the cosmos in the form of reactions, it cannot be said that there is free will, free from what? You are a functioning part of the world, and your reaction is how you belong. You have some range, but all motivations come from your larger self/Earth. Keep in mind also that cause and reaction are the essence of change

How do you define "free will". I usually think of free will as the opposite to "determinism," and I think of determinism as how Newtonian physics works. According to Newtonian physics all identical actions will produce the exact same reaction EVERY SINGLE TIME. There's no means by which to deviate from a specific action if the same circumstances are the case. Is the same true of human beings? If all things are equal, can a human being not but do the exact same reaction every time in response to the same action? Free will is not like physics; it is the ability to produce a reaction that is not absolutely the same, that is not predictable based on mathematical calculations.

As far as I'm aware, there's no proof that human reactions are performed of free will or determined. If you want to pretend that you know there's no free will, that's fine. But just a head's up, it's speculation on your part.

Sorry, I'll get back to you later. The post I worked on just disappeared. In the meantime, think about probability!

[Age]

How do you define "free will". I usually think of free will as the opposite to "determinism," and I think of determinism as how Newtonian physics works. According to Newtonian physics all identical actions will produce the exact same reaction EVERY SINGLE TIME. There's no means by which to deviate from a specific action if the same circumstances are the case. Is the same true of human beings? If all things are equal, can a human being not but do the exact same reaction every time in response to the same action? Free will is not like physics; it is the ability to produce a reaction that is not absolutely the same, that is not predictable based on mathematical calculations.

As far as I'm aware, there's no proof that human reactions are performed of free will or determined. If you want to pretend that you know there's no free will, that's fine. But just a head's up, it's speculation on your part.

Sorry, I'll get back to you later. The post I worked on just disappeared. In the meantime, think about probability!

Some might interpret 'this' as another form of just 'trying to' deflect and/or to detract.

instead of 'this one' just backing up and supporting its claim, and belief, here, 'this one' tells 'the other' to 'think about probability', only.