Christianity

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I understand that a mysterious God is called The God of the Gaps.
Your praise of the God of the Gaps is okay but what use is is a being nobody can understand?

If you were to add to your claim that Jesus Christ came to make the transcendent intelligible to mere mortals, then I could agree as that is a strong hypothesis.

You had written:-

But a supernatural way of being is not necessary. It's not necessary because eternity is not supernatural , and because supernature is a set or deterministic laws of nature no more no less.

Heaven ain't natural.

The God of the Gaps is the one that diminished to absence, nothing, null as science and rationality erupted in to culture less than 400 years ago.

It took me until 5 years ago to catch up, after over 50 years of false belief.

He's gone. Without a trace. In an instant.

But that doesn't stop me engaging with the posit of an intentional ground of infinite, eternal being.

'But a supernatural way of being is not necessary.'

Agreed. No God, no supernatural. Plenty of grey between the 'extremes' there for us to make up. But just as there is no trace of God, there is no trace of the supernatural.

'It's not necessary because eternity is not supernatural'

Meaningless. Eternity is an attribute of nature. But that doesn't make the supernatural unnecessary. The total absence of evidence or reason does.

'and because supernature is a set or deterministic laws of nature no more no less.'

Another even more meaningless claim. Supernature would transcend nature. It's in the word. Just as there at least 11, up to 17 dimensions in nature, there would have to be more and/or God would have to be constantly manifestly interacting with everyone immanently. No death, no decay, no violence. The ultimate holodeck. The ultimate fairy tale. In never never land. Even Ian M. Banks' best effort at imagining it is through a glass darkly. He imagines it there, with exponential psychological development so steep that it is rapidly impossible to look back.

I'd rather not that. Just walking the plains of Heaven. Forever. That would do me.

Nobody gets to walk the plains of heaven.
The human condition is such that there is death, decay, violence, sex, urge to power, etc. Your God is what you want it to be. I do not want a God what some bigwig tells me it is.

I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.

[Belinda]

Heaven ain't natural.

The God of the Gaps is the one that diminished to absence, nothing, null as science and rationality erupted in to culture less than 400 years ago.

It took me until 5 years ago to catch up, after over 50 years of false belief.

He's gone. Without a trace. In an instant.

But that doesn't stop me engaging with the posit of an intentional ground of infinite, eternal being.

'But a supernatural way of being is not necessary.'

Agreed. No God, no supernatural. Plenty of grey between the 'extremes' there for us to make up. But just as there is no trace of God, there is no trace of the supernatural.

'It's not necessary because eternity is not supernatural'

Meaningless. Eternity is an attribute of nature. But that doesn't make the supernatural unnecessary. The total absence of evidence or reason does.

'and because supernature is a set or deterministic laws of nature no more no less.'

Another even more meaningless claim. Supernature would transcend nature. It's in the word. Just as there at least 11, up to 17 dimensions in nature, there would have to be more and/or God would have to be constantly manifestly interacting with everyone immanently. No death, no decay, no violence. The ultimate holodeck. The ultimate fairy tale. In never never land. Even Ian M. Banks' best effort at imagining it is through a glass darkly. He imagines it there, with exponential psychological development so steep that it is rapidly impossible to look back.

I'd rather not that. Just walking the plains of Heaven. Forever. That would do me.

Nobody gets to walk the plains of heaven.
The human condition is such that there is death, decay, violence, sex, urge to power, etc. Your God is what you want it to be. I do not want a God what some bigwig tells me it is.

I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.

Same here, except that I allocate the name 'God' to set of principles.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Nobody gets to walk the plains of heaven.
The human condition is such that there is death, decay, violence, sex, urge to power, etc. Your God is what you want it to be. I do not want a God what some bigwig tells me it is.

I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.

Same here, except that I allocate the name 'God' to set of principles.

Like Einstein. I use it very mainly for my projected graven image.

[Belinda]

I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.

Same here, except that I allocate the name 'God' to set of principles.

Like Einstein. I use it very mainly for my projected graven image.

The name God does not have to be that of a graven image. The name God can be used pragmatically as circumstances change. Circumstances do change as a matter of fact. Mythologies come and go but reason and ordinary human kindness are constants.

[Belinda]

Martin Peter Clark wrote:-
I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.;

What are you going to do when the extreme right gain too much power like in the 1920s. Remain a bystander? That is how evil gets a foothold.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Martin Peter Clark wrote:-
I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.;

What are you going to do when the extreme right gain too much power like in the 1920s. Remain a bystander? That is how evil gets a foothold.

How are those sentences connected?

[Belinda]

Martin Peter Clark wrote:-
I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.;

What are you going to do when the extreme right gain too much power like in the 1920s. Remain a bystander? That is how evil gets a foothold.

How are those sentences connected?

Bystander and beholder seem to mean much the same, non -combatant. If not so for you please say so.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Martin Peter Clark wrote:-
I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.;

What are you going to do when the extreme right gain too much power like in the 1920s. Remain a bystander? That is how evil gets a foothold.

How are those sentences connected?

Bystander and beholder seem to mean much the same, non -combatant. If not so for you please say so.

As a beholder of art here I am both bystander and combatant. I rely on the police to deal with Tommy Robinson, until he's made Home Secretary. And you of course. And whatever you do to stop Farage. Bravo! Ah, but I keep forgetting, you're not a Brit are you. No pasaran! all the same. Well done. Keep up the good fight.

[Belinda]

How are those sentences connected?

Bystander and beholder seem to mean much the same, non -combatant. If not so for you please say so.

As a beholder of art here I am both bystander and combatant. I rely on the police to deal with Tommy Robinson, until he's made Home Secretary. And you of course. And whatever you do to stop Farage. Bravo! Ah, but I keep forgetting, you're not a Brit are you. No pasaran! all the same. Well done. Keep up the good fight.

I am British and I would say more but one has to be careful not to identity oneself on a public forum.
I am not as bold as I seem. Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street whereupon I begged him to be careful as dangerous people around. He said that it matters to take action against the extreme right evils, that reconciliation is not an option. I admire and agree with my son but my heart fails me with fear .

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Bystander and beholder seem to mean much the same, non -combatant. If not so for you please say so.

As a beholder of art here I am both bystander and combatant. I rely on the police to deal with Tommy Robinson, until he's made Home Secretary. And you of course. And whatever you do to stop Farage. Bravo! Ah, but I keep forgetting, you're not a Brit are you. No pasaran! all the same. Well done. Keep up the good fight.

I am British and I would say more but one has to be careful not to identity oneself on a public forum.
I am not as bold as I seem. Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street whereupon I begged him to be careful as dangerous people around. He said that it matters to take action against the extreme right evils, that reconciliation is not an option. I admire and agree with my son but my heart fails me with fear .

I'm not surprised. I would threaten to cut my son off if he did such a thing. It's extremely dangerous. The vast majority of the oppressed working class, exercised by immigration, are not extreme right evil. But.

[Immanuel Can]

Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street...

Your son would remove the flag of your own country...and you'd agree with that?

But that symbol is a representation of your collective life, your native people, your own land. How can you despise yourself in that way?

What are you advocating instead of England? The WEF?

[Belinda]

Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street...

Your son would remove the flag of your own country...and you'd agree with that?

But that symbol is a representation of your collective life, your native people, your own land. How can you despise yourself in that way?

What are you advocating instead of England? The WEF?

I was responding to another Englishman. You may not be aware of the tension in the UK about the symbolism of national flags . In the UK the symbolism of National flags has been hi-jacked by extreme right wing influencers and their supporters.

As a general matter of religious affiliation, some theologians such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, believe there is war which is justified. Bonhoeffer saw the Bible as a sword—God’s Word that cuts through compromise, dividing true discipleship from cheap grace: “I came not to bring peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34).

[Belinda]

As a beholder of art here I am both bystander and combatant. I rely on the police to deal with Tommy Robinson, until he's made Home Secretary. And you of course. And whatever you do to stop Farage. Bravo! Ah, but I keep forgetting, you're not a Brit are you. No pasaran! all the same. Well done. Keep up the good fight.

I am British and I would say more but one has to be careful not to identity oneself on a public forum.
I am not as bold as I seem. Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street whereupon I begged him to be careful as dangerous people around. He said that it matters to take action against the extreme right evils, that reconciliation is not an option. I admire and agree with my son but my heart fails me with fear .

I'm not surprised. I would threaten to cut my son off if he did such a thing. It's extremely dangerous. The vast majority of the oppressed working class, exercised by immigration, are not extreme right evil. But.

I agree and I did not say they were. It's not social class but lack of education that correlates with the rash of flag - waving agitators.

[Belinda]

Heaven ain't natural.

The God of the Gaps is the one that diminished to absence, nothing, null as science and rationality erupted in to culture less than 400 years ago.

It took me until 5 years ago to catch up, after over 50 years of false belief.

He's gone. Without a trace. In an instant.

But that doesn't stop me engaging with the posit of an intentional ground of infinite, eternal being.

'But a supernatural way of being is not necessary.'

Agreed. No God, no supernatural. Plenty of grey between the 'extremes' there for us to make up. But just as there is no trace of God, there is no trace of the supernatural.

'It's not necessary because eternity is not supernatural'

Meaningless. Eternity is an attribute of nature. But that doesn't make the supernatural unnecessary. The total absence of evidence or reason does.

'and because supernature is a set or deterministic laws of nature no more no less.'

Another even more meaningless claim. Supernature would transcend nature. It's in the word. Just as there at least 11, up to 17 dimensions in nature, there would have to be more and/or God would have to be constantly manifestly interacting with everyone immanently. No death, no decay, no violence. The ultimate holodeck. The ultimate fairy tale. In never never land. Even Ian M. Banks' best effort at imagining it is through a glass darkly. He imagines it there, with exponential psychological development so steep that it is rapidly impossible to look back.

I'd rather not that. Just walking the plains of Heaven. Forever. That would do me.

Nobody gets to walk the plains of heaven.
The human condition is such that there is death, decay, violence, sex, urge to power, etc. Your God is what you want it to be. I do not want a God what some bigwig tells me it is.

I have no God, apart from the canvas I dabble with. I just critique others' and allied thinking like yours. As a beholder.

*But is IS the intentional bit that defines the Abrahamic God.

* But eternity does not necessarily mean there is a God there.

[Immanuel Can]

Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street...

Your son would remove the flag of your own country...and you'd agree with that?

But that symbol is a representation of your collective life, your native people, your own land. How can you despise yourself in that way?

What are you advocating instead of England? The WEF?

I was responding to another Englishman. You may not be aware of the tension in the UK about the symbolism of national flags . In the UK the symbolism of National flags has been hi-jacked by extreme right wing influencers and their supporters.

No, it's been hijacked by Leftists, turned into a symbol of their hatred, and despised, just as they have also tried to do to the stars and stripes of the US. The idea is that if they can debase the flag, they'll also debase any sense of national identity, and make it impossible for people even to love their own country or admire their own people.

I'm not in either country. I don't owe any allegiance to either flag. But I can see that those who abuse their own flag are either self-loathers who've been made into Lenin's "useful idiots" by the new global Socialism, or ideologues who are understand the global Socialist strategy and are trying to pull down their own homeland for ideological purposes.

Here's the simple truth: the union jack is still the same union jack. It's no more or less than it has always been...the standard of the English people. It wasn't the Nazi flag that Nelson flew on the Victory, or the Nazi flag that was stamped on the planes that fought the Nazis in the Battle of Britain, was it? So who was it who, according to your son, converted the symbol of English courage into a Fascist symbol? And why is he agreeing with those alleged "converters," by now hating his own flag?

Your boy's being played. He just doesn't know it.