Jesus Crucifixion & Second Coming

[Fairy]

Jesus did not truly die on the cross. His real death came earlier when he surrendered completely to God. In that surrender, the “Jesus” as a separate self dissolved. What remained was pure witnessing, not as Jesus the man, but as God’s presence moving through the body.

So when scripture says that God took Jesus to His side, it is not describing a later event. The body perished on the cross, but Jesus had already died before in surrender. From that moment on, it was no longer Jesus who lived, but God speaking and acting through the body.That’s all the story and meaning where it comes from.



( Born once die twice. Born twice die once. ) John 3:1-21

[Greatest I am]

Jesus did not truly die on the cross. His real death came earlier when he surrendered completely to God. In that surrender, the “Jesus” as a separate self dissolved. What remained was pure witnessing, not as Jesus the man, but as God’s presence moving through the body.

So when scripture says that God took Jesus to His side, it is not describing a later event. The body perished on the cross, but Jesus had already died before in surrender. From that moment on, it was no longer Jesus who lived, but God speaking and acting through the body.That’s all the story and meaning where it comes from.



( Born once die twice. Born twice die once. ) John 3:1-21

If you wish to discuss the immoral aspects of the messianic concept, I am here for that.

On Jesus dying for Christians, from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.

[ThinkOfOne]

Jesus preached His gospel from the beginning of His ministry through His crucifixion. The concept of substitutionary atonement is completely alien to the gospel preached by Jesus.

The gospel preached by Jesus is about salvation through righteousness: an unrighteous individual must make themselves righteous (cease to sin) for "salvation", "eternal life", etc. Jesus calls the unrighteous to make themselves righteous. Only the unrighteous who have made themselves righteous have been "born again".

John 3
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

John 8
31Jesus therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s offspring, and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You shall become free’?” 34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“And the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed

Christianity has the Pauline gospel as it's foundation instead of the gospel preached by Jesus. The Pauline gospel introduced the concept of substitutionary atonement.

[ThinkOfOne]

Jesus did not truly die on the cross. His real death came earlier when he surrendered completely to God. In that surrender, the “Jesus” as a separate self dissolved. What remained was pure witnessing, not as Jesus the man, but as God’s presence moving through the body.

So when scripture says that God took Jesus to His side, it is not describing a later event. The body perished on the cross, but Jesus had already died before in surrender. From that moment on, it was no longer Jesus who lived, but God speaking and acting through the body.That’s all the story and meaning where it comes from.



( Born once die twice. Born twice die once. ) John 3:1-21

If you wish to discuss the immoral aspects of the messianic concept, I am here for that.

On Jesus dying for Christians, from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

This seems to be at odds with the other things you wrote. What did you have in mind?

[Greatest I am]

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

This seems to be at odds with the other things you wrote. What did you have in mind?

Jesus is their immoral exception to the rules of proper conduct of stepping up to ones responsibility for ones own sins.

In all instances we teach our children to step up, not step back and putting our just rewards onto another.

Sin is a teacher and we need the lessons, not who some call a God.

Then again, I like the older and better definition of sin.

This TLDR is why.

"Sin: The Path to Excellence"
Sin has long been associated with moral failure, but what if we reframe it? I see sin as something essential to human growth—a necessary part of striving for excellence.
At its core, sin simply means “missing the mark.” It’s not about wickedness but about falling short of an ideal. Christianity and even Gnostic traditions acknowledge this idea in different ways. The concept of felix culpa—the “happy fault”—suggests that sin is necessary for God’s plan. Whether or not one believes in the supernatural, the wisdom of this idea is clear: missing the mark is a natural part of aiming for something greater.
To evolve, both as individuals and as a species, we must take risks and inevitably fall short. This process—of setting goals, failing, and trying again—is what drives progress. Every moment of “sin” is evidence that we’re pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones and striving toward our best possible selves. This is what we do, consciously or unconsciously, at every point in our lives.
Even competition, often seen as divisive, is tied to this idea. Competition highlights our shortcomings, creating a contrast between where we are and where we want to be. It creates leaders, innovators, and excellence by encouraging us to improve. Of course, competition produces losers, and those losses can feel like failures or even evoke the idea of "evil." But in truth, every loss is an opportunity—a moment to learn, adapt, and grow stronger.
This is why I celebrate sin—not as a call to moral failure but as an embrace of imperfection and growth. Without sin, without missing the mark, we would have no benchmarks for greatness. There would be no leaders to inspire us, no innovators to challenge us, and no progress to drive humanity forward.
I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I see wisdom in the way ancient scribes wove this idea into their teachings. Sin, in its truest sense, is not something to avoid but something to engage with thoughtfully. It is the evidence of our striving, our courage to try, and our commitment to evolve.
So, I invite you: aim high. Take your shot. Miss the mark. Become a sinner in the best way possible. In doing so, you’ll not only create a better version of yourself but also contribute to the collective excellence of humanity.

[ThinkOfOne]

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

This seems to be at odds with the other things you wrote. What did you have in mind?

Jesus is their immoral exception to the rules of proper conduct of stepping up to ones responsibility for ones own sins.

In all instances we teach our children to step up, not step back and putting our just rewards onto another.

Sin is a teacher and we need the lessons, not who some call a God.

Then again, I like the older and better definition of sin.

This TLDR is why.

"Sin: The Path to Excellence"
Sin has long been associated with moral failure, but what if we reframe it? I see sin as something essential to human growth—a necessary part of striving for excellence.
At its core, sin simply means “missing the mark.” It’s not about wickedness but about falling short of an ideal. Christianity and even Gnostic traditions acknowledge this idea in different ways. The concept of felix culpa—the “happy fault”—suggests that sin is necessary for God’s plan. Whether or not one believes in the supernatural, the wisdom of this idea is clear: missing the mark is a natural part of aiming for something greater.
To evolve, both as individuals and as a species, we must take risks and inevitably fall short. This process—of setting goals, failing, and trying again—is what drives progress. Every moment of “sin” is evidence that we’re pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones and striving toward our best possible selves. This is what we do, consciously or unconsciously, at every point in our lives.
Even competition, often seen as divisive, is tied to this idea. Competition highlights our shortcomings, creating a contrast between where we are and where we want to be. It creates leaders, innovators, and excellence by encouraging us to improve. Of course, competition produces losers, and those losses can feel like failures or even evoke the idea of "evil." But in truth, every loss is an opportunity—a moment to learn, adapt, and grow stronger.
This is why I celebrate sin—not as a call to moral failure but as an embrace of imperfection and growth. Without sin, without missing the mark, we would have no benchmarks for greatness. There would be no leaders to inspire us, no innovators to challenge us, and no progress to drive humanity forward.
I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I see wisdom in the way ancient scribes wove this idea into their teachings. Sin, in its truest sense, is not something to avoid but something to engage with thoughtfully. It is the evidence of our striving, our courage to try, and our commitment to evolve.
So, I invite you: aim high. Take your shot. Miss the mark. Become a sinner in the best way possible. In doing so, you’ll not only create a better version of yourself but also contribute to the collective excellence of humanity.

The underlying foundation of Christianity is the concept that no individual is capable of making themselves righteous: the only way for an individual to make themselves acceptable to God is to believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself to atone for their sins.

This is what Christian parents teach their children: Jesus is the ultimate scapegoat that atones for all their sins, past, present and future. As such, Christian parent DO teach their children to use a scapegoat. Yet you say, "There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat."

[Age]

The reason 'the body' of 'that one' some called "jesus" was hung on a couple pieces of timber occurred because of not listening, not understanding, and hate.

What is called, ' the second coming of "jesus" ', is just the realization that comes with finally understanding and knowing that it is adult human beings who are the actual creators of 'the world' in which human beings live with and in, and thus it is 'them' who is God in 'that situation', and therefore it is 'children' who are actually "jesus", here. And, if, and when, children start to be, really, listened to, and heard, then it is through 'them' that is 'the way and the truth and the life'. And, 'no one, literally, comes to the father/adult except through jesus/children'.

[Fairy]

When Awareness ( Father)… Knows sensation…Consciousness ( Mother)
…Son/ is born ( Child )


The Holy Trinity is the Christian belief in one God who exists as three co-equal Persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons are distinct, yet they share the same divine essence, making them one God. The concept is central to Christianity and affirms God's unity while also acknowledging His multifaceted nature and active presence in the world.

[Greatest I am]

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

This seems to be at odds with the other things you wrote. What did you have in mind?

Jesus is their immoral exception to the rules of proper conduct of stepping up to ones responsibility for ones own sins.

In all instances we teach our children to step up, not step back and putting our just rewards onto another.

Sin is a teacher and we need the lessons, not who some call a God.

Then again, I like the older and better definition of sin.

This TLDR is why.

"Sin: The Path to Excellence"
Sin has long been associated with moral failure, but what if we reframe it? I see sin as something essential to human growth—a necessary part of striving for excellence.
At its core, sin simply means “missing the mark.” It’s not about wickedness but about falling short of an ideal. Christianity and even Gnostic traditions acknowledge this idea in different ways. The concept of felix culpa—the “happy fault”—suggests that sin is necessary for God’s plan. Whether or not one believes in the supernatural, the wisdom of this idea is clear: missing the mark is a natural part of aiming for something greater.
To evolve, both as individuals and as a species, we must take risks and inevitably fall short. This process—of setting goals, failing, and trying again—is what drives progress. Every moment of “sin” is evidence that we’re pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones and striving toward our best possible selves. This is what we do, consciously or unconsciously, at every point in our lives.
Even competition, often seen as divisive, is tied to this idea. Competition highlights our shortcomings, creating a contrast between where we are and where we want to be. It creates leaders, innovators, and excellence by encouraging us to improve. Of course, competition produces losers, and those losses can feel like failures or even evoke the idea of "evil." But in truth, every loss is an opportunity—a moment to learn, adapt, and grow stronger.
This is why I celebrate sin—not as a call to moral failure but as an embrace of imperfection and growth. Without sin, without missing the mark, we would have no benchmarks for greatness. There would be no leaders to inspire us, no innovators to challenge us, and no progress to drive humanity forward.
I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I see wisdom in the way ancient scribes wove this idea into their teachings. Sin, in its truest sense, is not something to avoid but something to engage with thoughtfully. It is the evidence of our striving, our courage to try, and our commitment to evolve.
So, I invite you: aim high. Take your shot. Miss the mark. Become a sinner in the best way possible. In doing so, you’ll not only create a better version of yourself but also contribute to the collective excellence of humanity.

The underlying foundation of Christianity is the concept that no individual is capable of making themselves righteous: the only way for an individual to make themselves acceptable to God is to believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself to atone for their sins.

This is what Christian parents teach their children: Jesus is the ultimate scapegoat that atones for all their sins, past, present and future. As such, Christian parent DO teach their children to use a scapegoat. Yet you say, "There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat."

You are right about Christians using Jesus as a scapegoat, but at no other time do any honest and moral Christians ask their children to do it with a real person.

Some may be immoral enough to do it.

[promethean75]

If somebody painted a picture of a herd of goats standing randomly on slightly inclined ground at the base of a mountain with a few well placed small trees in the background, would it be appropriate to title the piece simply 'Scape Goats'?

[ThinkOfOne]

Jesus is their immoral exception to the rules of proper conduct of stepping up to ones responsibility for ones own sins.

In all instances we teach our children to step up, not step back and putting our just rewards onto another.

Sin is a teacher and we need the lessons, not who some call a God.

Then again, I like the older and better definition of sin.

This TLDR is why.

"Sin: The Path to Excellence"
Sin has long been associated with moral failure, but what if we reframe it? I see sin as something essential to human growth—a necessary part of striving for excellence.
At its core, sin simply means “missing the mark.” It’s not about wickedness but about falling short of an ideal. Christianity and even Gnostic traditions acknowledge this idea in different ways. The concept of felix culpa—the “happy fault”—suggests that sin is necessary for God’s plan. Whether or not one believes in the supernatural, the wisdom of this idea is clear: missing the mark is a natural part of aiming for something greater.
To evolve, both as individuals and as a species, we must take risks and inevitably fall short. This process—of setting goals, failing, and trying again—is what drives progress. Every moment of “sin” is evidence that we’re pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones and striving toward our best possible selves. This is what we do, consciously or unconsciously, at every point in our lives.
Even competition, often seen as divisive, is tied to this idea. Competition highlights our shortcomings, creating a contrast between where we are and where we want to be. It creates leaders, innovators, and excellence by encouraging us to improve. Of course, competition produces losers, and those losses can feel like failures or even evoke the idea of "evil." But in truth, every loss is an opportunity—a moment to learn, adapt, and grow stronger.
This is why I celebrate sin—not as a call to moral failure but as an embrace of imperfection and growth. Without sin, without missing the mark, we would have no benchmarks for greatness. There would be no leaders to inspire us, no innovators to challenge us, and no progress to drive humanity forward.
I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I see wisdom in the way ancient scribes wove this idea into their teachings. Sin, in its truest sense, is not something to avoid but something to engage with thoughtfully. It is the evidence of our striving, our courage to try, and our commitment to evolve.
So, I invite you: aim high. Take your shot. Miss the mark. Become a sinner in the best way possible. In doing so, you’ll not only create a better version of yourself but also contribute to the collective excellence of humanity.

The underlying foundation of Christianity is the concept that no individual is capable of making themselves righteous: the only way for an individual to make themselves acceptable to God is to believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself to atone for their sins.

This is what Christian parents teach their children: Jesus is the ultimate scapegoat that atones for all their sins, past, present and future. As such, Christian parent DO teach their children to use a scapegoat. Yet you say, "There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat."

You are right about Christians using Jesus as a scapegoat, but at no other time do any honest and moral Christians ask their children to do it with a real person.

Some may be immoral enough to do it.

You're kidding yourself.

For all intents and purposes: Christianity is an intrinsically dishonest religion. Subsequently, it is also an intrinsically immoral religion; subsequently so are their adherents; with some factions /adherents much more dishonest and immoral than others. Both historically through current times.

While Jesus is the ultimate scapegoat for atonement of their sins, Adam and Eve are also scapegoats for the many Christians who believe in the concept of original sin: they are not responsible for their sins despite the outward appearance of being against sin, but ultimately their sins are not their fault - they cannot help but sin. Plus for all intents and purposes, they receive forgiveness from God for the asking.

As an example, consider the dishonesty and immorality of the worldview of a very high percentage of Evangelical Christians and the many scapegoats they use to prop it up. Immigrants as but one example.

"Your Christians are so unlike your Christ". It was said for a reason.

[promethean75]

"they are not responsible for their sins despite the outward appearance of being against sin, but ultimately their sins are not their fault - they cannot help but sin"

Oh, it's the wonkiest thing I've ever seen, man, and i can't make heads or tails out of any of it.

I know i ain't fixin to be called a sinner, though. Fuck that. I ain't even aks to be born, bro. How you gonna make me exist and then be like "oh BTW you're a bad person." Naw, bruh.

[Fairy]

No one consents to being born. Only memory lives and dies.

Brains are biological computers, there’s no actual physical person in a body.

Reality is not human.


No matter what type of information is stored on our digital devices, it's all stored in the same way.
Information is converted into the numbers 1 and 0. This is called binary.
When information is converted to binary it can then be stored on our computers.

No physical brain made the brain. The brain is information holder where all memory is stored, nothing physical is alive, exists. Matter has no mind, or consciousness.

The human being idea is simply a fairytale believing it’s real.

[promethean75]

"No one consents to being born. Only memory lives and dies"

That's exactly right. Only because of a unique network of feedback loopz in your brainz are you able to experience awareness, the passing of time, the illusion of freewill. Removing a chunk from your brain that's the size of a grape could completely disperse with your person. You'd just sit there staring like a we todd. Certain drugs will twist your experience of time or numb everything but your brain, so you feel disembodied (ketamine). All you are is an electrical grid system.

How it all organizes and emerges is a curious mystery and question we are still asking, but emerge nevertheless it does, madam.

[Fairy]

It’s all immaterial.

This can be recognised without ever using drugs, as in my case. Suffering brought me to this state, suffering, not drugs. Never drugs.

Once realised that everything is immaterial, one never returns to the material paradigm. Like never ever.

Immaterialism is what God is, to me personally anyway. God to me is everything and nothing. And that’s what I am, too, so 100% merged with the infinite that I’ve completely disappeared as if I never existed at all.


I no longer can function in the old skool way anymore. Intimate Relationships with others are not part of my life anymore, I’ve essentially died before my body passes away. It’s the peace that passes all understanding. I’m with God now.
I’m in the world but not of the world.

When you’re in the world there’s always going to be evil and good both, never one at the total exclusion of the other, because duality is the material paradigm where opposites exist right up until one fully awakens and fully surrender their ego for good.

In the material realm one can die at any moment, pure acceptance of this death without fear is what’s known as knowing immortality insofar as knowing yourself as the infinite, not the finite.

Basically, nothing can die because nothing takes birth. This I’ve come to realise. Everything is pure and perfect just as it is, including the mind and it’s constant story telling antics.

Everything is immaterial, just like a dream. It’s amazing. It’s horrifying, it’s everything, nothing excluding.All inclusive. Immaterial embodied, pure magic.