Samson and Delilah

[Alexiev]

The story of Samson as told in Judges seems to me to represent how the natural man ia weakened by the enculturating influence of women. Samson's mother is warned not to drink wine during pregnancy, a medically sound warning which aloo suggests avoiding the manufactured in favor of the natural.

Then Samson kills 1000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass (instead of a man-made weapon).

Delilah (a Philistine) asks Samson for the secret of his strength, in order to betray him.. He first tells her if he is bound with bow strings (a manufactured item), his power will be nullified. It doesn't work. He snaps the bow strings.

Then Samson claims binding with a different rope will do the trick. It doesn't.

Finally Delilah seduces the truth out of him. Once his (natural) hair is shorn, he is captured and his eyes are gouged out.

Finally, his hair grows back in prison, and he avenges himself by pulling down the pillars of the man-made temple, killing hundreds.

His natural, God-given strength is contrasted to the artificial and manufactured, which he overwhelms. Delilah represents the feminine who shears him and is associated with enculturation. That, at least, is my analysis.

[Eodnhoj7]

The story of Samson as told in Judges seems to me to represent how the natural man ia weakened by the enculturating influence of women. Samson's mother is warned not to drink wine during pregnancy, a medically sound warning which aloo suggests avoiding the manufactured in favor of the natural.

Then Samson kills 1000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass (instead of a man-made weapon).

Delilah (a Philistine) asks Samson for the secret of his strength, in order to betray him.. He first tells her if he is bound with bow strings (a manufactured item), his power will be nullified. It doesn't work. He snaps the bow strings.

Then Samson claims binding with a different rope will do the trick. It doesn't.

Finally Delilah seduces the truth out of him. Once his (natural) hair is shorn, he is captured and his eyes are gouged out.

Finally, his hair grows back in prison, and he avenges himself by pulling down the pillars of the man-made temple, killing hundreds.

His natural, God-given strength is contrasted to the artificial and manufactured, which he overwhelms. Delilah represents the feminine who shears him and is associated with enculturation. That, at least, is my analysis.

I once read that a woman will domestic the wild within a man and when that wild is domesticated then she will seek the wild.

I have seen it to many times...

[MikeNovack]

The story of Samson as told in Judges seems to me to represent how the natural man ia weakened by the enculturating influence of women. Samson's mother is warned not to drink wine during pregnancy, a medically sound warning which aloo suggests avoiding the manufactured in favor of the natural.

Uh ..... being a "nazir"involves not drinking wine or cutting hair. Shimshon is vowed to be a nazir before conception << immaculate conception -- Shmuel (Samuel) was too.

Then Samson kills 1000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass (instead of a man-made weapon) Finally Delilah seduces the truth out of him. Once his (natural) hair is shorn, he is captured and his eyes are gouged out.

Breaking his "for life" nazir status. NORMALLY a "nazir" vow is just for some number of years.

Finally, his hair grows back in prison, and he avenges himself by pulling down the pillars of the man-made temple, killing hundreds.

His natural, God-given strength is contrasted to the artificial and manufactured, which he overwhelms. Delilah represents the feminine who shears him and is associated with enculturation. That, at least, is my analysis.

Well I am saying more to do with being a "nazir". Not well explained* in the Bible, which is not unusual for things common to all Semites. Only two examples, both lifelong as opposed to "for a set number of years". Samson's strength is physical, Samuel's is spiritual/magical. What I suggest to get a sense is how via the Amharic speakers of Ethiopia Semites) the concept got to Rastaferi. So if you can find a copy to watch, I suggest Contryman (1982/Jamaica/starring Countryman)

* Besides the stories about Samson and Samuel, mainly just the ritual when becoming a nazir and the ritual when ceasing to be a nazir. Nothing about WHY taking the vow of a nazir, special powers/duties, etc.

[Alexiev]

The story of Samson as told in Judges seems to me to represent how the natural man ia weakened by the enculturating influence of women. Samson's mother is warned not to drink wine during pregnancy, a medically sound warning which aloo suggests avoiding the manufactured in favor of the natural.

Uh ..... being a "nazir"involves not drinking wine or cutting hair. Shimshon is vowed to be a nazir before conception << immaculate conception -- Shmuel (Samuel) was too.



Breaking his "for life" nazir status. NORMALLY a "nazir" vow is just for some number of years.

Finally, his hair grows back in prison, and he avenges himself by pulling down the pillars of the man-made temple, killing hundreds.

His natural, God-given strength is contrasted to the artificial and manufactured, which he overwhelms. Delilah represents the feminine who shears him and is associated with enculturation. That, at least, is my analysis.

Well I am saying more to do with being a "nazir". Not well explained* in the Bible, which is not unusual for things common to all Semites. Only two examples, both lifelong as opposed to "for a set number of years". Samson's strength is physical, Samuel's is spiritual/magical. What I suggest to get a sense is how via the Amharic speakers of Ethiopia Semites) the concept got to Rastaferi. So if you can find a copy to watch, I suggest Contryman (1982/Jamaica/starring Countryman)

* Besides the stories about Samson and Samuel, mainly just the ritual when becoming a nazir and the ritual when ceasing to be a nazir. Nothing about WHY taking the vow of a nazir, special powers/duties, etc.

I had no idea there was such a thing as a "nazir", although most avowed nazirs have never killed a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, or toppled mighty temples with their bare hands. Thanks for informing me, Still, my analysis isn't much affected by nazir tradition. The juxtaposition of the 'natural man" and the "enculturating woman" remains.

[MikeNovack]

His natural, God-given strength is contrasted to the artificial and manufactured, which he overwhelms. Delilah represents the feminine who shears him and is associated with enculturation. That, at least, is my analysis.

Because I have to assume most here do not have "comparative religion, comparative ancient narrative" I have usually avoided asking us to look at contemporary "other versions" of Bible material. In any case, the different religions are making different use of the material (just like Shakespeare did with plays like Macbeth, Hamlet, and Lear -- I disagree with the idea that Shakespeare did not know the "real" stories)

So yes, Enkidu in the Epic of Gilgamesh. And it is by using bread, beer, and a sacred prostitute that Gilgamesh captures Enkidu (soon to become his best friend). The idea that ONCE UPON A TIME men lived wild as individuals predates the Greek philosophers and Enlightenment thinkers. That is the version of the story that fits your description "is associated with enculturation". But the way the material is used in the Bible is not about "acculturation of the wild man".

Like I said, little indication (in the Bible) WHY a nazir might have supernatural strength (the two Biblical examples of nazirs are very different). Which is why I suggested the movie Countryman where it is clear that Rastaferi has the idea and must have gotten the notion "special powers" from somewhere, that being the Amharic speakers of Ethiopia. Remember, what we see referenced but little described in the Bible we have good reason to think a custom common to all Semites. We all do this, so no need to describe.

[Alexiev]

His natural, God-given strength is contrasted to the artificial and manufactured, which he overwhelms. Delilah represents the feminine who shears him and is associated with enculturation. That, at least, is my analysis.

Because I have to assume most here do not have "comparative religion, comparative ancient narrative" I have usually avoided asking us to look at contemporary "other versions" of Bible material. In any case, the different religions are making different use of the material (just like Shakespeare did with plays like Macbeth, Hamlet, and Lear -- I disagree with the idea that Shakespeare did not know the "real" stories)

So yes, Enkidu in the Epic of Gilgamesh. And it is by using bread, beer, and a sacred prostitute that Gilgamesh captures Enkidu (soon to become his best friend). The idea that ONCE UPON A TIME men lived wild as individuals predates the Greek philosophers and Enlightenment thinkers. That is the version of the story that fits your description "is associated with enculturation". But the way the material is used in the Bible is not about "acculturation of the wild man".

Like I said, little indication (in the Bible) WHY a nazir might have supernatural strength (the two Biblical examples of nazirs are very different). Which is why I suggested the movie Countryman where it is clear that Rastaferi has the idea and must have gotten the notion "special powers" from somewhere, that being the Amharic speakers of Ethiopia. Remember, what we see referenced but little described in the Bible we have good reason to think a custom common to all Semites. We all do this, so no need to describe.

I'm familiar with Enkidu (although it's been a few years). NO doubt Samson shares some of his wild-man qualities. Good point. However, as I remember it Enkidu is contrasted to Gilgamesh. The former is a wild man, and eats grass like a wild animal. Gilgamesh is a cultured denizen of civilization. I don't doubt that the Samson story is a variant of the Enkidu story (although very different). Samson doesn't "become acculturated". Instead, he is betrayed by his lover (who, I suggest, represents both the feminine and civilization).

Indeed, my vague memory is that Enkidu is "civilized" by a priestess, who teaches him cultured manners so he can be a better friend to Gilgamesh. It is Gilgamesh who is admired by Ishtar, who seeks revenge for his abstinence by siccing the "bull of heaven" on the people (fortunately Gilgamesh and Enkidu slay it).

Enkidu (it seems to me) represents the transformation of the human species from hunters and gatherers to civilized city dwellers and farmers (he goes through the transformation himself). In that sense, he adumbrates the Garden of Eden story -- where the Eden of hunting and gathering is replaced by feeding oneself through the sweat of one's labor.

Perhaps Samson's blindness protects him while his hair grows. He is unable to see the civilization that surrounds him, and is thus protected from it. IN the end, he destroys it, and it destroys him.