New Discovery

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Atla
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Re: New Discovery

Post by Atla »

peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:43 am CHAPTER FOUR: WORDS, NOT REALITY

Our problem of hurting each other is very deep-rooted and begins with words through which we have not been allowed to see reality for what it really is. Supposing I stood up in one of our universities and said, “Ladies and gentlemen, I am prepared to prove that man does not have five senses, which has nothing to do with a sixth sense,” wouldn’t all the professors laugh and say, “Are you serious or are you being funny? You can’t be serious because everybody knows man has five senses. This is an established fact.” The definition of epistemology is the theory or science of the method and grounds of knowledge, especially with reference to its limits and validity. For the modern empiricist, the only way knowledge becomes ‘stamped’ onto the human conscience is through internal and external sensations, or through sense experience. But there is surprising evidence that the eyes are not a sense organ. The idea that man has five senses originated with Aristotle, and it has never been challenged. He did this just as naturally as we would name anything to identify it. But he made an assumption that the eyes functioned like the other senses, so he included them in the definition. This is equivalent to calling an apple, pear, peach, orange, and potato five fruit. The names given to these foods describe differences in substance that exist in the real world, but we certainly cannot call them five fruit since this word excludes the potato, which is not grown in the same manner as is described by the word fruit.

Believe it or not, the eyes, similar to the potato in the above example, were classified in a category to which they did not belong. We cannot name the organs with which we communicate with the outside world — the five senses, when they do not function alike. Aristotle, however, didn’t know this. His logic and renown delayed an immediate investigation of his theory because no one dared oppose the genius of this individual without appearing ridiculous for such audacity, which brought about almost unanimous agreement. To disagree was so presumptuous that nobody dared to voice their disagreement because this would only incur disdainful criticism. Everyone believed that such a brilliant individual, such a genius, had to know whereof he spoke. This is not a criticism of Aristotle or of anyone. But even today, we are still in agreement regarding a fallacious observation about the brain and its relation to the eyes. Those who will consider the possibility that you might have a discovery reveal their confusion by trying to nullify any value to it with this comment, as was made to me, “What difference does it make what we call them as a group, this isn’t going to change what we are. Whether we call them five senses, or four senses and a pair of eyes, is certainly not going to change them in any way.” However, if man doesn’t really have five senses, isn’t it obvious that just as long as we think otherwise, we will be prevented from discovering those things that depend on this knowledge for their discovery? Consequently, it does make a difference what we call them.

Just as my first discovery was not that man’s will is not free but the knowledge revealed by opening that door for a thorough investigation, so likewise, my second discovery is not that man does not have five senses but what significant knowledge lies hidden behind this door. Many years later, we have an additional problem that is more difficult to overcome because this fallacious observation has graduated dogmatically into what is considered genuine knowledge, for it is actually taught in school as an absolute fact, and our professors, doctors, etc. would be ready to take up arms, so to speak, against anyone who would dare oppose what they have come to believe is the truth without even hearing, or wanting to hear, any evidence to the contrary. I am very aware that if I am not careful, the resentment of these people will nail me to a cross, and they would do it in the name of justice and truth.
Another false 'discovery' huh. The only main difference between blind people and sighted people are visuals.

Do we even want to know at this point what his "surprising evidence" is supposed to be? This is from ILP
Peacegirl wrote:That might be what science believes is happening, but this author refutes that we see the past at all. He claims that light travels at 299,792,458 meters per second, and it takes 8 minutes for light from the sun to reach the eye, but once light is present, the eyes see objects in real time, not delayed time. He says that the eyes are not a sense organ like the other 4 because no images on the waves of light are being carried to the eye. You will have to accept his premise that the past is in the mind only (if you want to move forward) and that nothing from the past CAUSES the present, which is a problem in the way determinism is presently defined.
Do you even know what a sense organ is? All our sense organs collect information about the past. The eyes aren't any different. You experince a reconstruction of the past in your mind, but you experience it in the present. Vision, sound, touch, smell, taste.

Now it's true that some self-proclaimed determinists (like AIMike.. khm..) are stupid enough to believe that the past causes the present, when actual determinism has no direction. You can start from the past, you can start from the present, you can start from the future, you can do all at once and neither, it doesn't matter. What matters is that there is a chain of causality in time. But this is equally true for all sense organs and also everything else.

And in that chain, you do see a reconstruction of the past in your mind, not of the present. But you experience the reconstruction in the present. Your father was confused, and so you are confused too. You're just incorrectly conflating time (dividing existence into past-present-future) and timelessness (there is only the eternal now), but they are two different takes. There, you're welcome again.
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:37 am
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:37 am
Atla wrote: Sat Sep 06, 2025 7:03 pm
Again:



Everything remains the same. The optic nerve transmits signals to the visual cortex. What he disagreed with was that the delayed image was being constructed in the brain rather than seeing the object in real time. This occurs due to the eyes being efferent, not afferent. He explains what is actually going on in that chapter and why he came to this conclusion. It didn't come out of thin air.



Light does not literally bring an image. That's why I said a wavelength from the object that was reflected or emitted. Light is light, true.



This is not what he was referring to. His finding only relates to what we see with our eyes, or for that matter a telescope, not that lasers don't work. The speed of light has been determined through experiments. He wasn't refuting that.
It's proven that we always see the past, he disagrees with every scientific experiment ever.
Actually, it is a theory, not fact. You are just espousing what you have learned to be true, and you're just repeating it. I understand how hard this is to swallow. The mere thought that science could have been wrong in such a spectacular way would probably throw people into a tailspin. That was never my intention. I don't want to get people upset but what if science actually DID get it wrong? Should I not share what his observations were just so people don't get pissed off?
Last edited by peacegirl on Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atla
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Re: New Discovery

Post by Atla »

peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:15 am
Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:37 am
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:37 am
It's proven that we always see the past, he disagrees with every scientific experiment ever.
Actually, it is a theory, not fact. You are just espousing what you have learned to be true, and you're just repeating it. I understand how hard this is to swallow. The mere thought that science could have been wrong in such a huge way probably throws people into a tailspin. That was never my intention. I don't want to get people upset but what if science actually DID get it wrong? Should I not share what his observations were just so people don't get pissed off?
No, it's a fact, not a theory. You're a liar, you try to deceive people for selfish gain. Science didn't get this wrong, I know this all too well.
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:20 am
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:15 am
Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:37 am
It's proven that we always see the past, he disagrees with every scientific experiment ever.
Actually, it is a theory, not fact. You are just espousing what you have learned to be true, and you're just repeating it. I understand how hard this is to swallow. The mere thought that science could have been wrong in such a huge way probably throws people into a tailspin. That was never my intention. I don't want to get people upset but what if science actually DID get it wrong? Should I not share what his observations were just so people don't get pissed off?
No, it's a fact, not a theory. You're a liar, you try to deceive people for selfish gain. Science didn't get this wrong, I know this all too well.
I don't have a deceptive bone in my body Atla. This resistance is exactly what prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light in his lifetime. I'm really sorry that you think this is about money. :(

Later, I tried to engage a pastor in a discussion about free will, and he responded to me by asking, “If man’s will is not free, then you can’t blame or punish anything he does, is that correct?” And when I answered, “Right,” he actually got up and walked out of the room. You see, this learned ignorance presents quite a problem, and only by getting the world to understand what it means that man’s will is not free can I hope to break through this barrier. This law of our nature is not a premise, not an assumption, not a theory, but when 98% of the world believes otherwise, they might just close the windows of their mind to any scientific investigation that requires rejecting a theory that has dogmatically controlled man’s thinking since time immemorial. How is it possible to explain the solution when nobody wishes to listen because they think they know there isn’t any? Where is there one iota of difference between this attitude and that of our ancestors regarding the shape of the earth? To show how confused is the thinking of the average person who is not accustomed to perceiving mathematical relations of this nature, when I told someone that his answer was incorrect, he replied with a tone of resentment, “That’s your opinion, but I believe it is possible,” as if the answer could be one or the other. The earth cannot be round and flat; it has to be one or the other, and your opinion can never change what is. Remember, I am going to bring about an unprecedented change in human conduct, but I can only do this if you understand what I am about to reveal. If you can’t follow my reasoning as to why the earth is round, you will be compelled to believe that it is flat, for it gives you satisfaction not to be wrong.

In other words, if I were going to offer an opinion as to why man’s will is not free, then your educational status, your scholarly background, could assert itself as a condition more valid to deny my claim, but when I declare that I am not going to reveal a theory but will give a scientific, undeniable demonstration, then regardless of who you are, you must wait to see the proof before rejecting the claim. Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific, and undeniable, so if you find yourself in disagreement, you had better reread that with which you disagree; otherwise, your stubborn resistance, your inability to perceive these relations, will only delay the very life you want for yourself. Many philosophers consider the discussion of whether man’s will is or is not free equivalent to the discussion as to what came first, the chicken or the egg. To them, what difference does it really make? But if this knowledge can put an end to all war, crime, and evil in general, it makes a very big difference, and it is imperative that the world listen so that this evil in our lives can come to a permanent end.
It is time to draw an infallible line of demarcation between what is true and what is false, and you are going to be amazed at how much of what is false passed for what is true. However, everything was necessary. As we begin to understand the knowledge of our true nature, what is revealed is something amazing to behold, for it not only gives ample proof that evil is no accident but that it was part of the harmonious operation called the mankind system and was compelled to come into existence by the very nature of life itself as part of our development. Once certain facts are understood, it will also be no accident that every form of evil will be compelled to take leave of this earth.
Atla
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Re: New Discovery

Post by Atla »

peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:43 am I don't have a deceptive bone in my body Atla. This resistance is exactly what prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light in his lifetime. I'm really sorry that you think this is about money. :(
Another lie you keep repeating. What prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light was that his big claims are false. There is no real knowledge at all here.
Later, I tried to engage a pastor in a discussion about free will, and he responded to me by asking, “If man’s will is not free, then you can’t blame or punish anything he does, is that correct?” And when I answered, “Right,”
Another lie, it doesn't follow from determinism that we can't blame or punish people.
Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific, and undeniable, so if you find yourself in disagreement, you had better reread that with which you disagree; otherwise, your stubborn resistance, your inability to perceive these relations, will only delay the very life you want for yourself.
Blatant lie. His reasoning isn't mathematical, isn't scientific, isn't undeniable. And not correct at all. Savior complex scammers like your father are just another factor preventing humanity from a possible Golden Age.

That's another reason why I said that there is only one way: increasing both the intelligence and the empathy of the average human. That should also greatly decrease the emergence of such false saviors and fewer people would fall for them.
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:58 am
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:43 am I don't have a deceptive bone in my body Atla. This resistance is exactly what prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light in his lifetime. I'm really sorry that you think this is about money. :(
Another lie you keep repeating. What prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light was that his big claims are false. There is no real knowledge at all here.
Later, I tried to engage a pastor in a discussion about free will, and he responded to me by asking, “If man’s will is not free, then you can’t blame or punish anything he does, is that correct?” And when I answered, “Right,”
Another lie, it doesn't follow from determinism that we can't blame or punish people.
Atla, please please slow down, okay? It does appear this way but after extending the corollary, it prevents the very purpose that caused us to blame and punish. I hope you stick with me and I appreciate your question, as long as they don't attack the messenger. :(
Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific, and undeniable, so if you find yourself in disagreement, you had better reread that with which you disagree; otherwise, your stubborn resistance, your inability to perceive these relations, will only delay the very life you want for yourself.
Atla wrote:Blatant lie. His reasoning isn't mathematical, isn't scientific, isn't undeniable. And not correct at all. Savior complex scammers like your father are just another factor preventing humanity from a possible Golden Age.
This is so sad. What can I say to convince you that this is not the case? I cannot make you give this another try. It's up to you and if you think this is junk, then by all means leave this thread. After all, who in God's name would fall for this garbage. :?:
Atla wrote:That's another reason why I said that there is only one way: increasing both the intelligence and the empathy of the average human. That should also greatly decrease the emergence of such false saviors and fewer people would fall for them.
This has nothing to do with changing the chemistry in the brain. It has everything to do with removing the hurt that people are reacting to, JUSTIFIABLY.
Atla
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Re: New Discovery

Post by Atla »

peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:33 pm
Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:58 am
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:43 am I don't have a deceptive bone in my body Atla. This resistance is exactly what prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light in his lifetime. I'm really sorry that you think this is about money. :(
Another lie you keep repeating. What prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light was that his big claims are false. There is no real knowledge at all here.
Later, I tried to engage a pastor in a discussion about free will, and he responded to me by asking, “If man’s will is not free, then you can’t blame or punish anything he does, is that correct?” And when I answered, “Right,”
Another lie, it doesn't follow from determinism that we can't blame or punish people.
Atla, please please slow down, okay? It does appear this way but after extending the corollary, it prevents the very purpose that caused us to blame and punish. I hope you stick with me and I appreciate your question, as long as they don't attack the messenger. :(
Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific, and undeniable, so if you find yourself in disagreement, you had better reread that with which you disagree; otherwise, your stubborn resistance, your inability to perceive these relations, will only delay the very life you want for yourself.
Atla wrote:Blatant lie. His reasoning isn't mathematical, isn't scientific, isn't undeniable. And not correct at all. Savior complex scammers like your father are just another factor preventing humanity from a possible Golden Age.
This is so sad. What can I say to convince you that this is not the case? I cannot make you give this another try. It's up to you and if you think this is junk, then by all means leave this thread. After all, who in God's name would fall for this garbage. :?:
Atla wrote:That's another reason why I said that there is only one way: increasing both the intelligence and the empathy of the average human. That should also greatly decrease the emergence of such false saviors and fewer people would fall for them.
This has nothing to do with changing the chemistry in the brain. It has everything to do with removing the hurt that people are reacting to, JUSTIFIABLY.
You must have had a lucky life if you were sheltered all this time from the world, from what people are actually like. Not surprised you're an American boomer.
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:43 pm
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:33 pm
Atla wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:58 am
Another lie you keep repeating. What prevented Lessans from being able to bring this knowledge to light was that his big claims are false. There is no real knowledge at all here.


Another lie, it doesn't follow from determinism that we can't blame or punish people.
Atla, please please slow down, okay? It does appear this way but after extending the corollary, it prevents the very purpose that caused us to blame and punish. I hope you stick with me and I appreciate your question, as long as they don't attack the messenger. :(
Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific, and undeniable, so if you find yourself in disagreement, you had better reread that with which you disagree; otherwise, your stubborn resistance, your inability to perceive these relations, will only delay the very life you want for yourself.
Atla wrote:Blatant lie. His reasoning isn't mathematical, isn't scientific, isn't undeniable. And not correct at all. Savior complex scammers like your father are just another factor preventing humanity from a possible Golden Age.
This is so sad. What can I say to convince you that this is not the case? I cannot make you give this another try. It's up to you and if you think this is junk, then by all means leave this thread. After all, who in God's name would fall for this garbage. :?:
Atla wrote:That's another reason why I said that there is only one way: increasing both the intelligence and the empathy of the average human. That should also greatly decrease the emergence of such false saviors and fewer people would fall for them.
This has nothing to do with changing the chemistry in the brain. It has everything to do with removing the hurt that people are reacting to, JUSTIFIABLY.
You must have had a lucky life if you were sheltered all this time from the world, from what people are actually like. Not surprised you're an American boomer.
This has nothing to do with the price of eggs. Stop downplaying anything I say just because you don't like or can't imagine a friendlier world. Open your mind just a wee bit, and you'll get a lot out of this knowledge.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: New Discovery

Post by FlashDangerpants »

So this is what it looks like when you try start a cult but fail, and leave behind a brainwashed daughter and absolutely nothing else.
promethean75
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Re: New Discovery

Post by promethean75 »

What did that man tell you, peacegirl?!
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 3:15 pm So this is what it looks like when you try start a cult but fail, and leave behind a brainwashed daughter and absolutely nothing else.
No FlashDangerpants, I'm not brainwashed. I'm not trying to start a cult. I said if he was wrong, I'd concede, but I don't think he was. As far as the eyes go, light is at the eye. It works the same way except for seeing the external world in real time, not delayed, which sounds impossible, but it isn't. If you are so sure he's wrong and don't want to hear more, then there is nothing more I can say.
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

promethean75 wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:01 pm What did that man tell you, peacegirl?!
What do you mean by "what did that man tell me?"
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: New Discovery

Post by FlashDangerpants »

peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:27 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 3:15 pm So this is what it looks like when you try start a cult but fail, and leave behind a brainwashed daughter and absolutely nothing else.
No FlashDangerpants, I'm not brainwashed. I'm not trying to start a cult. I said if he was wrong, I'd concede, but I don't think he was. As far as the eyes go, light is at the eye. It works the same way except for seeing the external world in real time, not delayed, which sounds impossible, but it isn't. If you are so sure he's wrong and don't want to hear more, then there is nothing more I can say.
Light brings information such as colour to the eye, so yeah, the information is available only when the light arrives not at the time the light leaves the surface of the remote object. But sure, please explain your miraculous vision thing.

Of course we want to hear more. Keep going.
peacegirl
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Re: New Discovery

Post by peacegirl »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 5:06 pm
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:27 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 3:15 pm So this is what it looks like when you try start a cult but fail, and leave behind a brainwashed daughter and absolutely nothing else.
No FlashDangerpants, I'm not brainwashed. I'm not trying to start a cult. I said if he was wrong, I'd concede, but I don't think he was. As far as the eyes go, light is at the eye. It works the same way except for seeing the external world in real time, not delayed, which sounds impossible, but it isn't. If you are so sure he's wrong and don't want to hear more, then there is nothing more I can say.
Light brings information such as colour to the eye, so yeah, the information is available only when the light arrives not at the time the light leaves the surface of the remote object. But sure, please explain your miraculous vision thing.

Of course we want to hear more. Keep going.
I really got bamboozled into discussing the eyes. I want to continue discussing why man's will is not free, according to Lessans, and the other side of this equation, which has not been shown. I must have been dreaming thinking that when I posted these chapters, you were actually reading them. Little did I know, you were just playing me. :x

Light is a condition of sight. It does not bring anything to the eye. We see the object in real time if the object is large enough and luminous enough to be seen, which would automatically put light at the eye, or we wouldn't be able to see said object. Please, let's go back to his first discovery. Then we can talk about this one. Game?!
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: New Discovery

Post by FlashDangerpants »

peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 5:35 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 5:06 pm
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 4:27 pm

No FlashDangerpants, I'm not brainwashed. I'm not trying to start a cult. I said if he was wrong, I'd concede, but I don't think he was. As far as the eyes go, light is at the eye. It works the same way except for seeing the external world in real time, not delayed, which sounds impossible, but it isn't. If you are so sure he's wrong and don't want to hear more, then there is nothing more I can say.
Light brings information such as colour to the eye, so yeah, the information is available only when the light arrives not at the time the light leaves the surface of the remote object. But sure, please explain your miraculous vision thing.

Of course we want to hear more. Keep going.
I really got bamboozled into discussing the eyes.
Please just explain how this miraculous vision thing works. It seems improbable that this is simply derived from nothing but determinism, what are the other ingredients?
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 5:35 pm I want to continue discussing why man's will is not free, according to Lessans, and the other side of this equation, which has not been shown. I must have been dreaming thinking that when I posted these chapters, you were actually reading them. Little did I know, you were just playing me. :x
I did read them, twice. You have ignored my most recent questions about that portion of yor text and moved ontot he vision stuff. I am ok with that, but if you want to go back to the other stuff, those questions remain.
peacegirl wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2025 5:35 pm Light is a condition of sight. It does not bring anything to the eye. We see the object in real time if the object is large enough and luminous enough to be seen, which would automatically put light at the eye, or we wouldn't be able to see said object. Please, let's go back to his first discovery. Then we can talk about this one. Game?!
Light is a measurable phenomenon in the world around us. It brings similar information to cameras and sensors, which are able to recreate the same images that an eye would upon receiving that same light....?
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