Christianity

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I have concluded that you, Immanuel Can, are in truth a “false Christian”.

Well, we’ll both find out, one day, whether or not that’s the case.

Either that, or we all may just die and never ever "find out" anything again after that. Is that a possibility also?

He's true to himself. No question. He believes that Hate is Love. As The Rev. Ian Paisley, of all people, said of the IRA, "They're murderers, but they're not liars". And yes, he'll die happy and never know again. That's certain.

[Immanuel Can]

I have concluded that you, Immanuel Can, are in truth a “false Christian”.

Well, we’ll both find out, one day, whether or not that’s the case.

Either that, or we all may just die and never ever "find out" anything again after that. Is that a possibility also?

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

[Gary Childress]

Well, we’ll both find out, one day, whether or not that’s the case.

Either that, or we all may just die and never ever "find out" anything again after that. Is that a possibility also?

He's true to himself. No question. He believes that Hate is Love. As The Rev. Ian Paisley said of the IRA, "They're murderers, but they're not liars". And yes, he'll die happy and never know again. That's certain.

Well, dying happy is maybe a pretty good thing. I guess maybe not all of us deserve it, though. To me, the ones who don't deserve to die happy are the ones who cause the most suffering for others. Unfortunately, probably most of us have a hand in making others miserable. Oh heck, maybe we just die and that's it. End of story. And then we ride off into the moonlit sky on a gargoyle.

[Gary Childress]

Well, we’ll both find out, one day, whether or not that’s the case.

Either that, or we all may just die and never ever "find out" anything again after that. Is that a possibility also?

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Either that, or we all may just die and never ever "find out" anything again after that. Is that a possibility also?

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

If there's a day of accounting, God will be in our infinite, personal, let alone collective, debt.

[Gary Childress]

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

If there's a day of accounting, God will be in our infinite, personal, let alone collective, debt.

Considering all the terrible things I've said about Donald Trump, what happens if he's God? Would God be like Donald Trump and rig the books in his favor? I mean, when you're God, you can pretty much do whatever you want and get away with it.

[Immanuel Can]

Either that, or we all may just die and never ever "find out" anything again after that. Is that a possibility also?

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

Well, as I said above, if you’re right, and if there’s no afterlife, then neither of us is ahead or behind. In fact, it doesn’t matter WHAT we believe. None of it will have any ultimate consequences, anyway. As the old saying goes, “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we die.” If that’s the end, there’s no better or worse.

[Immanuel Can]

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

If there's a day of accounting, God will be in our infinite, personal, let alone collective, debt.

Considering all the terrible things I've said about Donald Trump, what happens if he's God? Would God be like Donald Trump and rig the books in his favor? I mean, when you're God, you can pretty much do whatever you want and get away with it.

This is a common mistake about God: the idea that “He can do anything” is without context. The Bible doesn’t support it. The Bible says there are various things that God cannot do, but that they’re all things that are discordant with His own character.

For example, it says, “…it is impossible for God to lie.” That’s not because of a lack of power, but because lying is something one only has to do if one has lost control of a circumstance, and so fidelity is hard for human beings. But it’s not hard for God. Or it says, “God cannot break His promises.” But that, too, is not because of a lack of power, but rather because when God promises something He never faces the human problem of lacking the ability to follow through on it, so God alone has the absolute ability to keep all promises. And so on. Only God is able at all times to be nothing less than God. He alone, of all beings, never lacks the ability to maintain consistent character.

So if D. Trump is your model of God, I think you’d be attributing to Trump more integrity and ability than is reasonable to attribute to any human being. And if you use human models of behaviour to shape your assumptions about God’s behaviour, I think you’re thinking about it the wrong way.

[Alexis Jacobi]

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

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[Alexis Jacobi]

Gary, IC works a very specific psycho-theological model that, if you will permit me to say, hooks you. You seem to struggle tremendously within that model which IC wields over you. I.e. Christian apologetics based on slinging fear and anxiety.

The sense — the intuition — that at some point or other we will have to face ourselves is completely real.

Immanuel Can works a devious and really rather Satanic theological game of psychological manipulation.

The problem with IC is that he contaminates a well that does hold healing water.

In my view, once one clearly identifies what IC’s actual — not feigned — objective is, it is far easier to dismantle it.

Honestly, think of him as a complex but angry ghost haunting an old theological building.

Think of Alexis Jacobi as a mellifluous siren of healing sunlight or as diamond-like raindrops lit up by the sun against a grey-black background.

[Belinda]

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

Well, as I said above, if you’re right, and if there’s no afterlife, then neither of us is ahead or behind. In fact, it doesn’t matter WHAT we believe. None of it will have any ultimate consequences, anyway. As the old saying goes, “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we die.” If that’s the end, there’s no better or worse.

Not promise of reward, and not fear of punishment cause healthy men to be good. Healthy men are good for the sake of being good.

The finality of death does not mean a heavenly judge. The finality of death means a life story can be told.

[Immanuel Can]

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

Well, as I said above, if you’re right, and if there’s no afterlife, then neither of us is ahead or behind. In fact, it doesn’t matter WHAT we believe. None of it will have any ultimate consequences, anyway. As the old saying goes, “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we die.” If that’s the end, there’s no better or worse.

Not promise of reward, and not fear of punishment cause healthy men to be good. Healthy men are good for the sake of being good.

If you imagine that’s what it’s all about, then yeah, you’re right: it wouldn’t achieve that purpose. But then, it isn’t about “making men good.” It’s about what fulfills the human telos and affords harmonious relationship with the Ultimate Good.

The finality of death does not mean a heavenly judge. The finality of death means a life story can be told.

To whom? In another few years, the very existence of most people will have been forgotten…and according to the Naturalistic story, there’s nobody capable of preserving even the memory of the dead, let alone any of their essence. And, as Robert Browning so wisely pointed out, “living on in the memory of others” isn’t actually living at all. It’s feeding the worms with one’s flesh.

[Alexis Jacobi]

An interesting spoken essay on Jordan Peterson. I post it because it is topical to a current re-consideration of Christianity among youths today. The spirit moves, one way or another.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

If there's a day of accounting, God will be in our infinite, personal, let alone collective, debt.

Considering all the terrible things I've said about Donald Trump, what happens if he's God? Would God be like Donald Trump and rig the books in his favor? I mean, when you're God, you can pretty much do whatever you want and get away with it.

Gary. Get a grip.

[Gary Childress]

Well, here’s a problem, Gary: if you’re right, you’ll never know it, and neither will I. I’ll be none the worse for whatever I believed, and you’ll be none the better for having refused to believe it. In fact, there isn’t even a reason to prefer truth to falsehood, since whatever makes one happy is as much as can be gotten from this life. Moreover, there’s no promise that we get anything at all, good or bad.

But if there’s a Day of Accounting, then we’ll both know it. And the consequences…well, how do you calculate those?

So…how do you want to play that situation?

What if both of us are none the worse or none the better? Is that possible?

Well, as I said above, if you’re right, and if there’s no afterlife, then neither of us is ahead or behind. In fact, it doesn’t matter WHAT we believe. None of it will have any ultimate consequences, anyway. As the old saying goes, “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we die.” If that’s the end, there’s no better or worse.

But you frame it as though it's best to believe the Bible because, well, the Bible (like any number of other assumptions or speculations about the unknown) might be true. You're always actively working to redeem the Bible, as though any of us knows the first thing about what will happen after our own deaths (other than being worm food)? Your premise always starts with, "the Bible could be true." It might just be that we don't know, and it might just be that we all end up the same as before we were ever born, non-existent. But you want very badly for that possibility to sound unappealing when compared to the advantages or disadvantages of believing or not believing the Bible. It's like a used car salesman preying on our insecurities in order to accomplish his personal agenda of enticing us to walk away with his car he's trying to sell us. It's manipulative.