David Chase. The one behind The Sopranos. His “directorial debut” on the big screen. Back with James Gandolfini again. Unfortunately, in one of his final acting appearances.
But this is no Sopranos.
It’s more just a slice of life…more down to earth. More intimate. And it unfolds at a time when [much like today] tumultuous changes seemed veritably to be lining up – and from all directions: social, political, cultural.
The British invasion. The Beatles and the Stones. One the new pop sensation and the other considerably more muscular. The Stone’s music was harder, more bluesy. Rougher, tougher. I was unequivocally a Stones man myself. It wasn’t until Rubber Soul and Revolver that I actually started to take the Mop Tops more seriously.
On the other hand, the Beatles on Ed Sullivan seemed to spark some the sort of mysterious undercurrent of change in “American Youth”. Suddenly, everyone started thinking about the past, the present and the future in a different way. But beyond that it is near impossible to explain. You really did have to be there.
In fact, I can just imagine folks watching this film today [kids, say] and being totally baffled: what the fuck was that all about?
Most feature films slot 1-2 percent of production costs for the music budget, but in "Fade’, music supervisor Steven Van Zandt, had about 10% of the $20-million-plus budget or at least $2 million. IMDb
Not Fade Away
Keith: Is that you?
Mick: Hey. Long time, huh?
Keith: Still selling ice creams off your bicycle?
Mick: Bollocks.
Keith: American R&B? Did you…Did you nick them all?
Mick: I sent off to Chicago. You know, mail order?
Keith: I play that Little Queenie.
Mick: Still wearing out the stylus on your mum’s Philips, Keith?
Keith; Fuck, Mick. I don’t play it on the fucking hi-fi. I got me a Rosetti steel-string. DeArmond pickup.
Mick: Nice. I’ve been singing a bit myself recently. With ol’ Dick Taylor.
Keith: Is that right? You go for Jimmy Reed? “Baby, What You Want Me To Do.”
Mick: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith: I love that song.
Sister [voiceover]: This meeting took place some 20 years after the bombing of London and the end of World War II. We know what happened to those two boys. They became The Rolling Stones. A couple years after that meeting on the train, my brother and his friends also started a band. Not so many people know what became of them. In fact, like with most bands, you’ve never heard of them.
And I'm guessing there's a reason for that. And not necessarily a good one.
Sister [voiceover]:It’s hard to imagine now, but the next historical event came only three weeks after the assassination of President Kennedy.
Speaking of assassinations...
Douglas: There’s people with longer hair than me.
Pat [father]: Fags.
No, really, back then boys were literally kicked out of school until they got a hair cut.
Pat: Think the Army’s gonna let you drive tanks dressed like a fruit?
Douglas: The Army? Why would I want to join that?
Pat: What the hell you talking about? We had a whole conversation.
Douglas: When? Vietnam is ridiculous.
Pat: What did you say?
Douglas: Plus, this friend of mine, he said that in World War ll they threatened black soldiers with hanging for looking at white women. Why would I want to be associated with an institution like that?
Pat; Look at him. High heels.
Douglas: They’re Cuban heels.
Pat: You wanna wear Cuban heels, go live in Cuba.
Douglas: They have nothing to do with Castro.
Pat: They’re n***** shoes!
Actually,, not all that far removed from my own experience “around the dinner table”.
PSA on television [with an atomic bomb exploding in the background]: If you are at home when a surprise attack occurs, crawl beneath a table if it is very near. Or drop to the floor with your back to the window.
Been there, done that.
Band member: It’s time to chip in, cut the demo.
Douglas: I can’t believe it costs 200 bucks.
Band member: If we’re not ready for the studio now, we never will be.
Eugene: Man, that is such a cliche. Why do people say that? Whether or not one is ready at any given point in time has nothing to do phenomenologically with whether one might be increasingly ready later. Maybe we could be more ready. Maybe Van Gogh wasn’t ready to cut off his ear and if he’d waited…
Philosophically as it were.
Douglas [watching the film Blow Up]: What kind of movie is this? Nothing happens. And there’s no orchestra to tell you, like, “Watch out, this guy’s going to get killed.”
Grace: I think the trees are the music.
Not even close.
Douglas: Christmas. Big deal.
Little girl: It’s Jesus’ birthday!
Douglas: He’s probably blowing out the candles right now in Vietnam, plus the lives of about 40,000 children.
Mom: Don’t talk like that.
Uncle: You don’t like it, go live in Red China. I went down to Newark for the pastries for today. The Fabias got a new colored housing project going up right across the street.
Aunt: Nobody built free housing for the Italians when we had nothing. All Mama and Papa gave each of us for Christmas was a navel orange. That’s all they could afford.
Uncle: What I want to know, Douglas MacArthur, is what are you gonna do about the draft without a student deferment? What are you gonna do, tiptoe through the tulips down there at the draft board?
Mom: He’s going to loaf with that Eugene Gaunt.
Douglas: Yeah, well, Mom, you wouldn’t understand being in a band. That’s my true family.
Pat: Your true family, there, they’re gonna pay your enormous food bills, I assume.
Douglas; I told you I’m going to get a job.
Pat: Doing what? Ditch digger and philosopher the rest of your life?
Douglas: Just till we make it.
Like at Archie Bunker’s house. And my own. But, again, you had to be there.
Sister [voiceover]: In June, 1967, The Beatles released Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. It was known to history as the Summer of Love.
On the other hand, that was around the time I got my draft notice.
Joy: Fuckers! It was a trap!
And so it is off to the mental institution.
Pat: Who could’ve taken his TV? There’s no mulignans up in Cranston.
Daughter: You’re not supposed to say those words anymore, Dad. You never were, but now even more so. You should call them “Afro-Americans.”
Uncle: What’s so different now?
Daughter: Martin Luther King? Fag, too. You shouldn’t call people that anymore.
Pat: Why not?
Daughter: It’s rude to homosexuals, that’s why. The new term is “gay.”
For starters.
Aunt: Rock and roll, keeps you young, right?
Douglas: Not really, Aunt Josie. It’s an art form. Does Dostoyevsky keep you young?
After all, it's not like there's a difference.
Douglas: I might take a film course.
Pat: Going back to college? Good. Giving college credits now for making movies. Laurel and Hardy had a Ph.D.
Douglas: Film and music are the only two forms of art that both take place within the medium of elapsed time.
Pat: I’m trying to get my customers to pay their goddamn bills on time. I could give a crap about movies and music.
The "silent majority" some called those of his ilk.
Grace: Listen to this. Orson Welles. He said, “The camera is far more than a recording apparatus. It is a means by which messages come to us from the other world. This is the beginning of magic.”
Douglas: He probably stole that from Rod Serling.
Grace: Music has the same attributes. Especially since Hendrix. Plato, he said, “When the mode of the music changes, the walls of the city shake.”
Good luck with that these days.
Eugene: Learn 25 new songs? It’s a huge amount of time and effort.
Jerry [manager]: That’s why it’s called the music business.
Eugene: It’s an art form.
Jerry: So they say. Since Sergeant Pepper. But, okay. Let’s stipulate for now it’s an art form. Art, painting, literature.
Eugene: But playing for drunks every night? Getting booed?
Jerry: Hey, the Beatles spent two years playing German strip bars, dodging bratwurst.
To wit: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f ... 1&dpr=1.21
Douglas: Somebody said Jagger was in there for a while with some chicks.
Grace: Nobody at that party really, actually saw Jagger.
Douglas: I saw Charlie, man.
Grace: What, you think The Stones all ride around together in some stupid van like you and your wiffle-ball friends back in Jersey?
Next up: Brian Jones...murdered?
Sister [voiceover]: I had to write this term paper. And I made it about how America has given the world two inventions of enormous power. One is nuclear weapons. The other is rock and roll. It’s a question, I wrote, which one is going to win out in the end.
Alas, it's not even close these days.
Quote of the day
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Take your average, ordinary male asshole. A cynical nihilist perhaps. How do you turn him around? Well, he’ll need plenty of practice. So let’s have him relive the same day over and over and over and over and over and over. You know, until he finally figures out that he is an asshole. And then until he finally gets it right. Right being how men are supposed to behave so as not to be assholes.
Sort of like Nietzsche’s eternal return – only with the possibility to “fix” things. The Hollywood rendition as it were.
Indeed: The idea comes from ‘The Gay Science’, a famous book by Nietzsche. In his book, Nietzsche gives a description of a man who is living the same day over and over again.
On the other hand, there are at least a dozen more sources that are said to be the inspiration.
It’s really a lesson for all of us: stop doing the same things in the same way day after day after day after. At least if you expect things to change.
And just think of all the diabolical plot twists [not to mention philosophical implications] they could have explored here.
But nope:
Danny Rubin and Harold Ramis both said that they avoided exploring the truly dark side of Phil’s time lapsing in which he could do truly horrible things without consequence. IMDb
He does use it to get laid though.
On the other hand, you can just think of this as an entertaining flick that is often really, really funny. But if I did that I wouldn’t be a cynical nihilist, right?
Look for the hicks. And then ask yourself: could they be right? Anyway, if you can’t beat them, join them. In other words, the end of the film is all but insufferable. You know, for someone like me.
Bill Murray was bitten by the groundhog twice during shooting. Murray had to have anti rabies injections because the bites were so severe.
Since the film’s release, the town of Punxatawney has now become a major tourist attraction.
According to the website Wolf Gnards, Bill Murray spends 8 years, 8 months and 16 days trapped in Groundhog Day. The website Obsessed With Film claims he was trapped 12,403 days, just under 34 years, in order to account for becoming a master piano player, ice sculptor, etc.
The scene where Phil picks up the alarm clock and slams it onto the floor didn’t go as planned. Bill Murray slammed down the clock but it barely broke, so the crew bashed it with a hammer to give it the really smashed look. The clock actually continued playing the song like in the movie.
According to director Harold Ramis, most of the times when he tried to explain a scene to Bill Murray, Murray would interrupt and ask, “Just tell me - good Phil or bad Phil?”
A family of groundhogs was actually raised for the production.
The groundhog ceremony is depicted as occurring in the center of town. Gobbler’s Knob, where the ceremony takes place in real life, is a rural, wooded area, about two miles outside of Punxsutawney. IMDb
Groundhog Day
Phil [to Larry]: Someday somebody will see me interviewing a groundhog…and think I don’t have a future.
Rita [being as cute as possible]: I think it’s a nice story. He comes out, and he looks around. He wrinkles up his little nose. He sees his shadow or he doesn’t see it. It’s nice. People like it.
Phil: People like blood sausage too. People are morons.
The hicks, in other words. So, you know these two are destined to live happily ever after.
day one:
Mrs. Lancaster: Will you be checking out today, Mr. Connors?
Phil [snidely]: Chance of departure today: one hundred percent!
day two:
Mrs. Lancaster: Will you be checking out today, Mr. Connors?
Phil [less snidely]: I’d say the chance of departure today is…eighty percent. Seventy five to eighty.
Then all the way down to zero. Or there about.
Ned [to Phil]: Watch out for that first step. It’s a doozy!
It still is for some of us.
Rita: You’re missin’ all the fun! These people are great! Some of them have been partyin’ all night long! They sing songs 'till they get too cold and then they go sit by the fire and they get warm, and then they come back and sing some more!
Phil: Yeah, they’re hicks, Rita.
Me? No less fractured and fragmented.
Phil [to Rita]: It’s the same old schtick year after year. The guy with the big stick raps on the door. They pull the little rat out. They talk to him. The rat talks back and then they tell us what’s gonna happen.
Or the rat bites you. Twice.
Phil: This is one time where television really fails to capture the true excitement of a large squirrel predicting the weather. I, for one, am very grateful to have been here. From Punxsutawney, this is Phil Connors. So long.
Rita: Okay, want to try it again without the sarcasm?
He'll get there.
Cop: Look, pal, you can go back to Punxsutawney or you can freeze to death. It’s your choice. What’s it gonna be?
Phil [as though seriously pondering it]: I’m thinking.
Cue the script?
Phil: Excuse me, where is everybody going?
Woman on Street: To Gobbler’s Knob. It’s Groundhog Day.
Phil: It’s still just once a year, isn’t it?
Never been there myself. How about you?
Phil [on the phone]: Tomorrow? Well, what if there is no tomorrow? There wasn’t one today.
What about our tomorrow?
Phil: So, what do I do?
Psychologist: I think we should meet again. How’s tomorrow for you?
You know, if there is one/
Phil: I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl. We ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters.
[Ralph and Gus snort]
Phil: That was a pretty good day. Why couldn’t I get that day over, and over, and over…
Now that's a good point. Philosophically, as it were.
Phil: What would you do if you were stuck in one place and every day was exactly the same, and nothing that you did mattered?
Ralph: That about sums it up for me.
If only all the way to the grave.
Phil: Let me ask you guys a question. What if there were no tomorrow?
Ralph: No tomorrow? That would mean there would be no consequences. There would be no hangovers. We could do whatever we wanted!
Phil [the light bulb finally clicking on]: That’s true. We could do whatever we want.
So, what would you do. I mean, besides posting here.
Rita [watching Phil gorge himself on desserts]: I like to see a man of advancing years throwing caution to the wind. It’s inspiring, in a way.
Phil: My years are not advancing as fast as you might think.
Metaphysically, say.
Rita: Don’t you worry about cholesterol, lung cancer, love handles?
Phil: I don’t worry about anything anymore.
How about now, Bill?
Rita:"The wretch, concentrated all in self… Living, shall forfeit fair renown… And, doubly dying, shall go down… To the vile dust, from whence he sprung… Unwept, unhonor’d, and unsung. " Sir Walter Scott. What, you don’t like poetry?
Phil: I love poetry. I just thought that was Willard Scott.
Let's explain the difference.
Phil: I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That’s where I see myself in five years. How about you?
Rita: Oh, I agree. I just like to go with the flow. See what happens.
Phil: Well, it’s led you here.
Rita: Mm hmm. Of course it’s about a million miles from where I started out in college.
Phil: You weren’t in broadcasting or journalism?
Rita: Uh unh. Believe it or not, I studied 19th-century French poetry.
Phil: La fille que j’aimera Sera comme bon vin Qui se bonifiera Un peux chaques matin.
Rita: You speak French!
Phil: Oui.
I pasted this into Google translate: “The girl I love good wine as Sera who shall allow a can every morning.”
Phil [to the camera]: This is pitiful. A thousand people freezing their butts off waiting to worship a rat.
A really big rat, let's say.
Phil: I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted and burned.
Rita: Really?
Phil: Every morning I wake up fine, not a scratch…not a dent in the fender. I am an immortal.
Waitress: The special today is blueberry waffles.
Again, in other words.
Phil: You like boats, but not the ocean. You go to a lake in the summer with your family up in the mountains. There’s a long wooden dock and a boathouse with boards missing from the roof, and a place you used to crawl underneath to be alone. You’re a sucker for French poetry and rhinestones. You’re very generous. You’re kind to strangers and children, and when you stand in the snow you look like an angel.
Rita [startled]: How are you doing this?
Phil: I told you. I wake up every day, right here, right in Punxsutawney, and it’s always February 2nd, and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Come on, would you believe it?
Phil [to Rita]: I’ve killed myself so many times I don’t even exist anymore.
Cue the Hollywood ending.
Sort of like Nietzsche’s eternal return – only with the possibility to “fix” things. The Hollywood rendition as it were.
Indeed: The idea comes from ‘The Gay Science’, a famous book by Nietzsche. In his book, Nietzsche gives a description of a man who is living the same day over and over again.
On the other hand, there are at least a dozen more sources that are said to be the inspiration.
It’s really a lesson for all of us: stop doing the same things in the same way day after day after day after. At least if you expect things to change.
And just think of all the diabolical plot twists [not to mention philosophical implications] they could have explored here.
But nope:
Danny Rubin and Harold Ramis both said that they avoided exploring the truly dark side of Phil’s time lapsing in which he could do truly horrible things without consequence. IMDb
He does use it to get laid though.
On the other hand, you can just think of this as an entertaining flick that is often really, really funny. But if I did that I wouldn’t be a cynical nihilist, right?
Look for the hicks. And then ask yourself: could they be right? Anyway, if you can’t beat them, join them. In other words, the end of the film is all but insufferable. You know, for someone like me.
Bill Murray was bitten by the groundhog twice during shooting. Murray had to have anti rabies injections because the bites were so severe.
Since the film’s release, the town of Punxatawney has now become a major tourist attraction.
According to the website Wolf Gnards, Bill Murray spends 8 years, 8 months and 16 days trapped in Groundhog Day. The website Obsessed With Film claims he was trapped 12,403 days, just under 34 years, in order to account for becoming a master piano player, ice sculptor, etc.
The scene where Phil picks up the alarm clock and slams it onto the floor didn’t go as planned. Bill Murray slammed down the clock but it barely broke, so the crew bashed it with a hammer to give it the really smashed look. The clock actually continued playing the song like in the movie.
According to director Harold Ramis, most of the times when he tried to explain a scene to Bill Murray, Murray would interrupt and ask, “Just tell me - good Phil or bad Phil?”
A family of groundhogs was actually raised for the production.
The groundhog ceremony is depicted as occurring in the center of town. Gobbler’s Knob, where the ceremony takes place in real life, is a rural, wooded area, about two miles outside of Punxsutawney. IMDb
Groundhog Day
Phil [to Larry]: Someday somebody will see me interviewing a groundhog…and think I don’t have a future.
Rita [being as cute as possible]: I think it’s a nice story. He comes out, and he looks around. He wrinkles up his little nose. He sees his shadow or he doesn’t see it. It’s nice. People like it.
Phil: People like blood sausage too. People are morons.
The hicks, in other words. So, you know these two are destined to live happily ever after.
day one:
Mrs. Lancaster: Will you be checking out today, Mr. Connors?
Phil [snidely]: Chance of departure today: one hundred percent!
day two:
Mrs. Lancaster: Will you be checking out today, Mr. Connors?
Phil [less snidely]: I’d say the chance of departure today is…eighty percent. Seventy five to eighty.
Then all the way down to zero. Or there about.
Ned [to Phil]: Watch out for that first step. It’s a doozy!
It still is for some of us.
Rita: You’re missin’ all the fun! These people are great! Some of them have been partyin’ all night long! They sing songs 'till they get too cold and then they go sit by the fire and they get warm, and then they come back and sing some more!
Phil: Yeah, they’re hicks, Rita.
Me? No less fractured and fragmented.
Phil [to Rita]: It’s the same old schtick year after year. The guy with the big stick raps on the door. They pull the little rat out. They talk to him. The rat talks back and then they tell us what’s gonna happen.
Or the rat bites you. Twice.
Phil: This is one time where television really fails to capture the true excitement of a large squirrel predicting the weather. I, for one, am very grateful to have been here. From Punxsutawney, this is Phil Connors. So long.
Rita: Okay, want to try it again without the sarcasm?
He'll get there.
Cop: Look, pal, you can go back to Punxsutawney or you can freeze to death. It’s your choice. What’s it gonna be?
Phil [as though seriously pondering it]: I’m thinking.
Cue the script?
Phil: Excuse me, where is everybody going?
Woman on Street: To Gobbler’s Knob. It’s Groundhog Day.
Phil: It’s still just once a year, isn’t it?
Never been there myself. How about you?
Phil [on the phone]: Tomorrow? Well, what if there is no tomorrow? There wasn’t one today.
What about our tomorrow?
Phil: So, what do I do?
Psychologist: I think we should meet again. How’s tomorrow for you?
You know, if there is one/
Phil: I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl. We ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters.
[Ralph and Gus snort]
Phil: That was a pretty good day. Why couldn’t I get that day over, and over, and over…
Now that's a good point. Philosophically, as it were.
Phil: What would you do if you were stuck in one place and every day was exactly the same, and nothing that you did mattered?
Ralph: That about sums it up for me.
If only all the way to the grave.
Phil: Let me ask you guys a question. What if there were no tomorrow?
Ralph: No tomorrow? That would mean there would be no consequences. There would be no hangovers. We could do whatever we wanted!
Phil [the light bulb finally clicking on]: That’s true. We could do whatever we want.
So, what would you do. I mean, besides posting here.
Rita [watching Phil gorge himself on desserts]: I like to see a man of advancing years throwing caution to the wind. It’s inspiring, in a way.
Phil: My years are not advancing as fast as you might think.
Metaphysically, say.
Rita: Don’t you worry about cholesterol, lung cancer, love handles?
Phil: I don’t worry about anything anymore.
How about now, Bill?
Rita:"The wretch, concentrated all in self… Living, shall forfeit fair renown… And, doubly dying, shall go down… To the vile dust, from whence he sprung… Unwept, unhonor’d, and unsung. " Sir Walter Scott. What, you don’t like poetry?
Phil: I love poetry. I just thought that was Willard Scott.
Let's explain the difference.
Phil: I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That’s where I see myself in five years. How about you?
Rita: Oh, I agree. I just like to go with the flow. See what happens.
Phil: Well, it’s led you here.
Rita: Mm hmm. Of course it’s about a million miles from where I started out in college.
Phil: You weren’t in broadcasting or journalism?
Rita: Uh unh. Believe it or not, I studied 19th-century French poetry.
Phil: La fille que j’aimera Sera comme bon vin Qui se bonifiera Un peux chaques matin.
Rita: You speak French!
Phil: Oui.
I pasted this into Google translate: “The girl I love good wine as Sera who shall allow a can every morning.”
Phil [to the camera]: This is pitiful. A thousand people freezing their butts off waiting to worship a rat.
A really big rat, let's say.
Phil: I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted and burned.
Rita: Really?
Phil: Every morning I wake up fine, not a scratch…not a dent in the fender. I am an immortal.
Waitress: The special today is blueberry waffles.
Again, in other words.
Phil: You like boats, but not the ocean. You go to a lake in the summer with your family up in the mountains. There’s a long wooden dock and a boathouse with boards missing from the roof, and a place you used to crawl underneath to be alone. You’re a sucker for French poetry and rhinestones. You’re very generous. You’re kind to strangers and children, and when you stand in the snow you look like an angel.
Rita [startled]: How are you doing this?
Phil: I told you. I wake up every day, right here, right in Punxsutawney, and it’s always February 2nd, and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Come on, would you believe it?
Phil [to Rita]: I’ve killed myself so many times I don’t even exist anymore.
Cue the Hollywood ending.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Stupidity
…it’s just another one of those things I don’t understand: everyone impresses upon you how unique you are, encouraging you to cultivate your individuality while at the same time trying to squish you and everyone else into the same ridiculous mould.” E.A. Bucchianeri
Cue the artists, of course. And a smattering of philosophers?
“It is stupidity rather than courage to refuse to recognize danger when it is close upon you.” Arthur Conan Doyle
Can you live with that?
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.” Friedrich von Schiller
Ja.
“The more often a stupidity is repeated, the more it gets the appearance of wisdom.” Voltaire
Some becoming actual schools of philosophy.
“Nero, you are an example to all the children on this shuttle. Because most of them are so foolish, they think it is better to keep their stupidest thoughts to themselves. You, however, understand the profound truth that you must reveal your stupidity openly. To hold your stupidity inside you is to embrace it, to cling to it, to protect it. But when you expose your stupidity, you give yourself the chance to have it caught, corrected, and replaced with wisdom. Be brave, all of you, like Nero Boulanger, and when you have a thought of such surpassing ignorance that you think it’s actually smart, make sure to make some noise, to let your mental limitations squeak out some whimpering fart of a thought, so that you have a chance to learn.” Orson Scott Card
Good luck with that.
“How can you fight stupidity effectively? The answer is simple: it’s not easy.” Carl William Brown
Not counting all the times I’ve fought it here, he chortled.
…it’s just another one of those things I don’t understand: everyone impresses upon you how unique you are, encouraging you to cultivate your individuality while at the same time trying to squish you and everyone else into the same ridiculous mould.” E.A. Bucchianeri
Cue the artists, of course. And a smattering of philosophers?
“It is stupidity rather than courage to refuse to recognize danger when it is close upon you.” Arthur Conan Doyle
Can you live with that?
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.” Friedrich von Schiller
Ja.
“The more often a stupidity is repeated, the more it gets the appearance of wisdom.” Voltaire
Some becoming actual schools of philosophy.
“Nero, you are an example to all the children on this shuttle. Because most of them are so foolish, they think it is better to keep their stupidest thoughts to themselves. You, however, understand the profound truth that you must reveal your stupidity openly. To hold your stupidity inside you is to embrace it, to cling to it, to protect it. But when you expose your stupidity, you give yourself the chance to have it caught, corrected, and replaced with wisdom. Be brave, all of you, like Nero Boulanger, and when you have a thought of such surpassing ignorance that you think it’s actually smart, make sure to make some noise, to let your mental limitations squeak out some whimpering fart of a thought, so that you have a chance to learn.” Orson Scott Card
Good luck with that.
“How can you fight stupidity effectively? The answer is simple: it’s not easy.” Carl William Brown
Not counting all the times I’ve fought it here, he chortled.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
From the director of Cure and Pulse above. So you know the narrative will explore parts of the human psyche we often try to avoid.
And, more to the point, we try to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time when we come into contact with those who not only seek out those parts, but act on them.
And this is always far more likely when they are stuck in dead-end jobs that are smack dab in the middle of dead-end lives smack dab in the middle of one or another dreary working class sinkhole.
And then on top of that one of them has an obsession with jellyfish. Slowly but surely he seeks to acclimate the very deadly Red jellyfish to fresh water. What this all means is never really made clear. Perhaps to create an army of them able to survive in the freshwater environs of Tokyo. Sow a lot of death that way. And all it takes is one. Something called “binary fission”.
For some you wonder: What made him snap? For others you wonder: what stopped him? For most of course the question never comes up. And oddly enough it can be them that intrigue you the most.
For most of us there is the gap between the bright future we dreamed about and the more muted reality that we actually live. One way or another that gap must be bridged.
Bright Future [Akarui Mirai]
Nimura: I’ve always had lots of dreams when I sleep. The dreams have always been about the future. The future in my dreams was always bright. A future brimming with hope and peace. So I’ve always loved to sleep. That is, until just recently…
Ask me about mine.
Arita: Better to trust your dreams.
Nimura: I’m telling you I don’t have any.
Arita: Maybe that is just as well.
I'd say so. And so will you.
Nimura [of the jellyfish]: It never reacts at all.
Arita: That’s just it’s nature. I’m sure you two will get along fine.
Let's get back to that...
Fujiwara [to Nimura after Arita quits]: When I looked up that jellyfish, I found it was poisonous. But he never let me know. He was going to let it kill me. When I called him on it, he said he would quit. I don’t have a clue what he is thinking.
No one does.
Arita [to Nimura]: Shocked? Of course you are shocked. I just kind of did it. And look at me now.
Lost in translation, as it were.
Nimura: Sometimes, I can see the future in my dreams. I’ve always been that way. But for a while, now, I’ve hardly dreamed at all. And when I did, it was just darkness.
But then he has a “clear one”.
Shinichiro: Nimura, There are things you can do in this world and there are things that you can’t. You’re all wrong if you think you can do anything you want. I saw the jellyfish. I really did. It was beautiful. But what’s going to come of it? Will it change reality? Will it help you to get what you want?
For some, though, it's less what they can and cannot do and more what they can do and get away with.
Shinichiro [to Nimura]: Why can’t you try facing this reality? Because it’s scruffy and filthy? We’ll that’s insulting! Because this reality also happens to be my reality!! You have no right to treat it with such contempt, you fool!!!
Dreams, it seems, cost money. There, just like here.
And, more to the point, we try to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time when we come into contact with those who not only seek out those parts, but act on them.
And this is always far more likely when they are stuck in dead-end jobs that are smack dab in the middle of dead-end lives smack dab in the middle of one or another dreary working class sinkhole.
And then on top of that one of them has an obsession with jellyfish. Slowly but surely he seeks to acclimate the very deadly Red jellyfish to fresh water. What this all means is never really made clear. Perhaps to create an army of them able to survive in the freshwater environs of Tokyo. Sow a lot of death that way. And all it takes is one. Something called “binary fission”.
For some you wonder: What made him snap? For others you wonder: what stopped him? For most of course the question never comes up. And oddly enough it can be them that intrigue you the most.
For most of us there is the gap between the bright future we dreamed about and the more muted reality that we actually live. One way or another that gap must be bridged.
Bright Future [Akarui Mirai]
Nimura: I’ve always had lots of dreams when I sleep. The dreams have always been about the future. The future in my dreams was always bright. A future brimming with hope and peace. So I’ve always loved to sleep. That is, until just recently…
Ask me about mine.
Arita: Better to trust your dreams.
Nimura: I’m telling you I don’t have any.
Arita: Maybe that is just as well.
I'd say so. And so will you.
Nimura [of the jellyfish]: It never reacts at all.
Arita: That’s just it’s nature. I’m sure you two will get along fine.
Let's get back to that...
Fujiwara [to Nimura after Arita quits]: When I looked up that jellyfish, I found it was poisonous. But he never let me know. He was going to let it kill me. When I called him on it, he said he would quit. I don’t have a clue what he is thinking.
No one does.
Arita [to Nimura]: Shocked? Of course you are shocked. I just kind of did it. And look at me now.
Lost in translation, as it were.
Nimura: Sometimes, I can see the future in my dreams. I’ve always been that way. But for a while, now, I’ve hardly dreamed at all. And when I did, it was just darkness.
But then he has a “clear one”.
Shinichiro: Nimura, There are things you can do in this world and there are things that you can’t. You’re all wrong if you think you can do anything you want. I saw the jellyfish. I really did. It was beautiful. But what’s going to come of it? Will it change reality? Will it help you to get what you want?
For some, though, it's less what they can and cannot do and more what they can do and get away with.
Shinichiro [to Nimura]: Why can’t you try facing this reality? Because it’s scruffy and filthy? We’ll that’s insulting! Because this reality also happens to be my reality!! You have no right to treat it with such contempt, you fool!!!
Dreams, it seems, cost money. There, just like here.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Talk about dasein!
And this one is said to be based on a true story. Or, perhaps, based more on an interpretation of a number of events similar to this that had unfolded over the years.
Still, imagine it:
You are a young boy. Just seven years old. Your father is in charge of constructing a dam in the Amazon Rain Forest. While at the edge of the construction site, you are taken by a local aboriginal tribe and are raised in their tribal village as though one of them. Years later your father finds you and over time you are reunited with your family. What to do: stay or go?
Now, imagine a discussion in which the implications of this are examined by a room filled with serious philosophers. As opposed to, say, someone like me.
Of course, given this context, it is inevitable there will be a discussion [debate] about the pros and the cons of living in “the modern world” versus being more at one with nature in a [technologically] primitive tribe. And so the “savages” here are portrayed as basically “noble”. The Invisible People. Not at all like, say, the Yanomamo. Or here the cannibalistic Fierce People.
The Emerald Forest
Tommy [gesturing toward the rainforest]: Hey, Dad, there are people in there.
Believe it.
Title card: Bill Markham spent all of his spare time searching the rainforest for Tommy, hoping against hope. After ten years, the dam he had come to build was nearing completion. His son was still missing…
Then, out of the blue...
Werner [a journalist to Bill]: It’s a big problem here. More than 2,000,000 abandoned children roaming the street. I would cover them but it has already been done too many times.
Uh, let God sort it all out?
Jean: There are times when I…
Werner: …when you almost wish he were dead?
[she looks at him startled]
Werner: No, no, so you could stop all this searching and you would have some…peace of mind. I can understand that.
Jean: No, you don’t understand at all.
The son being hers and not his, I'm guessing.
Werner: Can you smell it? The oxygen? 40% of the world’s oxygen is produced here in the Amazon.
Bill: Come on, Uwe, you know oxygen doesn’t smell. It’s…the rot, the decay.
Or what's left of it?
Bill: This is Uwe Werner.
Missionary: How do you do.
Werner: A confirmed atheist, I’m afraid.
Missionary: Ah, a confirmed atheist. It’s hard to keep up with new ideas out here.
That's what God is for.
Werner [of the mosquitos]: How do they do it? How do the get under the net?!!
Also: whatever possessed God in Heaven to create mosquitoes?
Werner [after Bill strings up the pot and pans…the knives and mirrors]: Waiting. Always waiting. Is that all you do out here for ten years…wait?
Bill: Mostly.
The wait is over.
Werner [of the Fierce People]: Do you think they are a lost tribe?
Bill: If anyone is lost it is us.
So much for Werner...
Bill: Tommy…
Tomme: My name is Tomme. We go to my father. He will help you.
Bill: I am your father.
Tomme: No, you are Daddee.
[he points to his head]
Tomme: You live in there, when I dream. Now you are here.
As simple as that.
Bill: Why did you take my son?
Wanadi: One day, I was hunting at the Edge of The World when Tomme appeared and he smiled; and even though you were a Termite Child, I had not the heart to send you back to The Dead World.
Tomme: Why are they called The Termite People?
Wanadi: They come into The World and chew down all the trees. Just like termites.
And the equivalent of that here.
Bill: Tomme, I want you to come with me. Momme wants you to come home.
Kachiri: He is finished with mothers. I am his woman now.
Bill: You stole my son.
Tomme: Dadee.
Bill: He took you from me, from Momme.
Tomme: That was long ago.
Bill: I just want you to see the home that you came from.
Tomme: This is my home. It will be the home of my children.
Too close to call.
Bill: Tomme, I must go back.
Wanadi: Why go back to that terrible place? You can stay and become a great warrior and hunter.
Bill: My family is there. It is where I belong. I swore to Tommy’s mother that I would bring him back.
Wanadi: You heart is torn. If you take him, you’ll wish you had not. If you don’t take him you will wish you had.
Fractured and fragmented let's call it.
Wanadi [to Tomme]: When I was a boy, the edge of the world was very far away, but it comes closer each year.
And what of them today?
Man: I know you. You are The Invisible People. Come. Hurry. So there are still people like you. We once lived out there, not far from you. You called us The Bat People. Because we hunted at night.
Tomme: My father told me many stories about your tribe.
Man: Why do you come here?
Tomme: We seek what you call a White Man.
A Northern European white man, let's say.
Bill [pointing toward the dam]: Tommy, my son. Do you see that? Do you know what it is?
Tomme: Wanadi said…it is a big log jam.
Bill: Yes. Lots of logs and the river cannot flow. Because of that log jam more white people will come here and enter the world and cut down more trees and take what is yours.
Tomme: They will not find us. We are The Invisible People.
Bill: They
will, Tommie. They will see you.
Tomme goes back to the forest. Though who really knows what that leads to. Tomme today, in other words.
And this one is said to be based on a true story. Or, perhaps, based more on an interpretation of a number of events similar to this that had unfolded over the years.
Still, imagine it:
You are a young boy. Just seven years old. Your father is in charge of constructing a dam in the Amazon Rain Forest. While at the edge of the construction site, you are taken by a local aboriginal tribe and are raised in their tribal village as though one of them. Years later your father finds you and over time you are reunited with your family. What to do: stay or go?
Now, imagine a discussion in which the implications of this are examined by a room filled with serious philosophers. As opposed to, say, someone like me.
Of course, given this context, it is inevitable there will be a discussion [debate] about the pros and the cons of living in “the modern world” versus being more at one with nature in a [technologically] primitive tribe. And so the “savages” here are portrayed as basically “noble”. The Invisible People. Not at all like, say, the Yanomamo. Or here the cannibalistic Fierce People.
The Emerald Forest
Tommy [gesturing toward the rainforest]: Hey, Dad, there are people in there.
Believe it.
Title card: Bill Markham spent all of his spare time searching the rainforest for Tommy, hoping against hope. After ten years, the dam he had come to build was nearing completion. His son was still missing…
Then, out of the blue...
Werner [a journalist to Bill]: It’s a big problem here. More than 2,000,000 abandoned children roaming the street. I would cover them but it has already been done too many times.
Uh, let God sort it all out?
Jean: There are times when I…
Werner: …when you almost wish he were dead?
[she looks at him startled]
Werner: No, no, so you could stop all this searching and you would have some…peace of mind. I can understand that.
Jean: No, you don’t understand at all.
The son being hers and not his, I'm guessing.
Werner: Can you smell it? The oxygen? 40% of the world’s oxygen is produced here in the Amazon.
Bill: Come on, Uwe, you know oxygen doesn’t smell. It’s…the rot, the decay.
Or what's left of it?
Bill: This is Uwe Werner.
Missionary: How do you do.
Werner: A confirmed atheist, I’m afraid.
Missionary: Ah, a confirmed atheist. It’s hard to keep up with new ideas out here.
That's what God is for.
Werner [of the mosquitos]: How do they do it? How do the get under the net?!!
Also: whatever possessed God in Heaven to create mosquitoes?
Werner [after Bill strings up the pot and pans…the knives and mirrors]: Waiting. Always waiting. Is that all you do out here for ten years…wait?
Bill: Mostly.
The wait is over.
Werner [of the Fierce People]: Do you think they are a lost tribe?
Bill: If anyone is lost it is us.
So much for Werner...
Bill: Tommy…
Tomme: My name is Tomme. We go to my father. He will help you.
Bill: I am your father.
Tomme: No, you are Daddee.
[he points to his head]
Tomme: You live in there, when I dream. Now you are here.
As simple as that.
Bill: Why did you take my son?
Wanadi: One day, I was hunting at the Edge of The World when Tomme appeared and he smiled; and even though you were a Termite Child, I had not the heart to send you back to The Dead World.
Tomme: Why are they called The Termite People?
Wanadi: They come into The World and chew down all the trees. Just like termites.
And the equivalent of that here.
Bill: Tomme, I want you to come with me. Momme wants you to come home.
Kachiri: He is finished with mothers. I am his woman now.
Bill: You stole my son.
Tomme: Dadee.
Bill: He took you from me, from Momme.
Tomme: That was long ago.
Bill: I just want you to see the home that you came from.
Tomme: This is my home. It will be the home of my children.
Too close to call.
Bill: Tomme, I must go back.
Wanadi: Why go back to that terrible place? You can stay and become a great warrior and hunter.
Bill: My family is there. It is where I belong. I swore to Tommy’s mother that I would bring him back.
Wanadi: You heart is torn. If you take him, you’ll wish you had not. If you don’t take him you will wish you had.
Fractured and fragmented let's call it.
Wanadi [to Tomme]: When I was a boy, the edge of the world was very far away, but it comes closer each year.
And what of them today?
Man: I know you. You are The Invisible People. Come. Hurry. So there are still people like you. We once lived out there, not far from you. You called us The Bat People. Because we hunted at night.
Tomme: My father told me many stories about your tribe.
Man: Why do you come here?
Tomme: We seek what you call a White Man.
A Northern European white man, let's say.
Bill [pointing toward the dam]: Tommy, my son. Do you see that? Do you know what it is?
Tomme: Wanadi said…it is a big log jam.
Bill: Yes. Lots of logs and the river cannot flow. Because of that log jam more white people will come here and enter the world and cut down more trees and take what is yours.
Tomme: They will not find us. We are The Invisible People.
Bill: They
will, Tommie. They will see you.
Tomme goes back to the forest. Though who really knows what that leads to. Tomme today, in other words.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Modern day Iran. The parents are wealthy and so the children are generally afforded far more options. They can, for example, experiment with behaviors that children in less affluent neighborhoods are much less likely to. In fact, the poorer the community the more conservative the parents are likely to be. And so their children will tend to be raised in a more…orthodox manner.
And we all know what that means in a nation ruled by reactionary religious fanatics. Perhaps not the equivalent of Muslim jihadists but they are not apt to be experimenting with, say, gay sex. Or same sex relationships. Or dope.
And [of course] the options afforded women there are already far, far fewer than those afforded men.
Also, engaging in behaviors of this sort there can be considerably more dangerous than engaging in them here. The “underground” in Tehran is by it’s very nature seen to be subversive. And since the gap between the State and God is construed by most to be but a sliver in many contexts, you have to have a lot of courage just to roll the dice. Especially in a world where, technologically, the authorities have ever more sophisticated ways of tracking your every move. Smaller and smaller cameras, smaller and smaller microphones.
I suppose then it is fair to ask: How realistic is this film? Is this an accurate portrayal of the sort of thing that does go on “underground” in cities like Tehran?
The poor little rich kids: they’re everywhere apparently. And it’s not like they want to escape from Iran for any other reason than to be “free” to go clubbing, partying and to “have fun”. No small thing there perhaps but you’re kind of hoping they’d have more, uh, substantial reasons. Fortunately, there are other characters here to take up the slack. Like Joey and his friend attempting to dub the film Milk into Persian.
And sometimes you find yourself wondering: which is worse, the government of the Shah or the government of the Ayatollahs? As always: better for some, worse for others.
This film won the audience award prize at the Sundance Film Festival.
Circimstance [شرایط]
Mehran [pissing into a speciman jar]: This isn’t necessary anymore. Dad, I’m not going to fuck up again.
Dad: I’m sorry.
[he tosses a wad of cash on the dresser]
Dad: This is your weekly allowance. I need all your receipts.
The rich really are, well, not so different after all? Well, aside from having all that money.
Mehran: Those addicts won’t even leave the mosque in peace.
Mohammad: The mosque is a place for everyone. God is compassionate.
Mehran: I’m only here because of God’s mercy.
Mohammad: Seeing young believers like yourself gives one hope.
Time for the dope addict to find God. It seems God either wills it or He does not.
Shireen: I love you.
Atafeh: I know.
Shireen: I want to tell you something.
Atafeh: You don’t need to, I already know.
Shireen: Really? Let’s run away to Dubai. You’ll sing and I’ll be your manager.
Atafeh: You’re delirious.
Shireen: In Dubai, anything is possible.
That is the alternative!
Mehran: Dad, pull over.
Father: Are you sick?
Mehran: It is time for my prayers.
Father: You’re joking.
Mehran: No, it’s not a joke.
Not sure if he is being ironic here or not.
Joey [male friend]: You know what this dork wants to do here? Dub Milk into Persian.
Shireen: In the film where Sean Penn is gay?
Friend: Milk’s non-violent protests led to a movement. We’d be like Che.
Shireen: Here they make Che into a God-fearing man.
Friend: But they can’t co-opt a gay figure.
Shireen: Yes, they can. They’re experts. They’ll make Milk lead the anti-gay movement.
Don't rule it out.
Friend: This film is not about fucking. It is about human rights
Shireen: Fucking is a human right.
How about virtually?
Friend: I want to create serious dialogue.
Atafeh: Sweetie, here anything illegal becomes politically subversive.
Shireen: Political acts aren’t that romantic, Atafeh.
Joey: With the parents that you had, subversion and naughtiness is in your blood.
We should all be so lucky.
[whistles blow in an illicit nightclub]
People shouting: Morality Police! Morality Police! Morality Police! Hurry!
Atafeh: Shireen! Go! Go!
Can you fucking believe it? And it's what the evangelicals in America want to create here.
Joey [while they are dubbing a sex scene from Milk]: Why are you making donkey sounds? Ladies here don’t make those sounds.
Shireen: Maybe you just don’t know how to produce them.
Donkey sounds?
Interrogator: Don’t be afraid, my child. You’re not responsible for your parents’ mistakes. Is it true your parents were writers? Anti-revolutionary writers?
[she turns to face him]
Interrogator: Face the wall, you whore! You have no right to look at us! Understand? Answer the question!
No fucking way I could -- would? -- ever tolerate that.
Government interrogator: Why is it your 16-year-old daughter is not a virgin, but…
Atafeh’s father: Know your place.
Interrogator: Money brings power, I know. But you’re not even responsible enough to control your own daughter.
The horror!
Interrogator: Raising a daughter is difficult, I know. It costs so much.
Father: Yes, a lot.
Interrogator: So we understand each other?
Father: Completely. How much to forget this?
Interrogator: We’re all forced to play this game.
Allah...and cash.
Father: God, see how she treats her father?
Atafeh: What’s God got to do with it?
Father: Don’t be disrespectful.
Atafeh: You all created this world for us with that revolution of yours. Now we’re forced to live under these circumstances.
Father: Have I done so wrong? I’ve done all this because of you. What’s gotten into you? You have everything at your disposal. If you think somewhere else is better, go!
Of course he has no idea that she wants to be…gay.
Mother [to Atayeh]: Sometimes, we just have to accept our reality.
And so Shireen and Mehran are married.
Atafeh: What’s wrong? What’s wrong, Shireen? What’s wrong? We’re alone. We’re alone today. What’s wrong with you? Are you afraid? What are you afraid of?
[she points to the camera]
Atafeh: Are you afraid of that? Is that it, Shireen, you afraid of that? Is that what you’re afraid of? Why? We can leave.
Will she or won’t she? No, she doesn’t. Now to the part that is forever embedded in the uncertainty [the ambiguity] of human psychology: Why? And then: Did she do the right thing?
And we all know what that means in a nation ruled by reactionary religious fanatics. Perhaps not the equivalent of Muslim jihadists but they are not apt to be experimenting with, say, gay sex. Or same sex relationships. Or dope.
And [of course] the options afforded women there are already far, far fewer than those afforded men.
Also, engaging in behaviors of this sort there can be considerably more dangerous than engaging in them here. The “underground” in Tehran is by it’s very nature seen to be subversive. And since the gap between the State and God is construed by most to be but a sliver in many contexts, you have to have a lot of courage just to roll the dice. Especially in a world where, technologically, the authorities have ever more sophisticated ways of tracking your every move. Smaller and smaller cameras, smaller and smaller microphones.
I suppose then it is fair to ask: How realistic is this film? Is this an accurate portrayal of the sort of thing that does go on “underground” in cities like Tehran?
The poor little rich kids: they’re everywhere apparently. And it’s not like they want to escape from Iran for any other reason than to be “free” to go clubbing, partying and to “have fun”. No small thing there perhaps but you’re kind of hoping they’d have more, uh, substantial reasons. Fortunately, there are other characters here to take up the slack. Like Joey and his friend attempting to dub the film Milk into Persian.
And sometimes you find yourself wondering: which is worse, the government of the Shah or the government of the Ayatollahs? As always: better for some, worse for others.
This film won the audience award prize at the Sundance Film Festival.
Circimstance [شرایط]
Mehran [pissing into a speciman jar]: This isn’t necessary anymore. Dad, I’m not going to fuck up again.
Dad: I’m sorry.
[he tosses a wad of cash on the dresser]
Dad: This is your weekly allowance. I need all your receipts.
The rich really are, well, not so different after all? Well, aside from having all that money.
Mehran: Those addicts won’t even leave the mosque in peace.
Mohammad: The mosque is a place for everyone. God is compassionate.
Mehran: I’m only here because of God’s mercy.
Mohammad: Seeing young believers like yourself gives one hope.
Time for the dope addict to find God. It seems God either wills it or He does not.
Shireen: I love you.
Atafeh: I know.
Shireen: I want to tell you something.
Atafeh: You don’t need to, I already know.
Shireen: Really? Let’s run away to Dubai. You’ll sing and I’ll be your manager.
Atafeh: You’re delirious.
Shireen: In Dubai, anything is possible.
That is the alternative!
Mehran: Dad, pull over.
Father: Are you sick?
Mehran: It is time for my prayers.
Father: You’re joking.
Mehran: No, it’s not a joke.
Not sure if he is being ironic here or not.
Joey [male friend]: You know what this dork wants to do here? Dub Milk into Persian.
Shireen: In the film where Sean Penn is gay?
Friend: Milk’s non-violent protests led to a movement. We’d be like Che.
Shireen: Here they make Che into a God-fearing man.
Friend: But they can’t co-opt a gay figure.
Shireen: Yes, they can. They’re experts. They’ll make Milk lead the anti-gay movement.
Don't rule it out.
Friend: This film is not about fucking. It is about human rights
Shireen: Fucking is a human right.
How about virtually?
Friend: I want to create serious dialogue.
Atafeh: Sweetie, here anything illegal becomes politically subversive.
Shireen: Political acts aren’t that romantic, Atafeh.
Joey: With the parents that you had, subversion and naughtiness is in your blood.
We should all be so lucky.
[whistles blow in an illicit nightclub]
People shouting: Morality Police! Morality Police! Morality Police! Hurry!
Atafeh: Shireen! Go! Go!
Can you fucking believe it? And it's what the evangelicals in America want to create here.
Joey [while they are dubbing a sex scene from Milk]: Why are you making donkey sounds? Ladies here don’t make those sounds.
Shireen: Maybe you just don’t know how to produce them.
Donkey sounds?
Interrogator: Don’t be afraid, my child. You’re not responsible for your parents’ mistakes. Is it true your parents were writers? Anti-revolutionary writers?
[she turns to face him]
Interrogator: Face the wall, you whore! You have no right to look at us! Understand? Answer the question!
No fucking way I could -- would? -- ever tolerate that.
Government interrogator: Why is it your 16-year-old daughter is not a virgin, but…
Atafeh’s father: Know your place.
Interrogator: Money brings power, I know. But you’re not even responsible enough to control your own daughter.
The horror!
Interrogator: Raising a daughter is difficult, I know. It costs so much.
Father: Yes, a lot.
Interrogator: So we understand each other?
Father: Completely. How much to forget this?
Interrogator: We’re all forced to play this game.
Allah...and cash.
Father: God, see how she treats her father?
Atafeh: What’s God got to do with it?
Father: Don’t be disrespectful.
Atafeh: You all created this world for us with that revolution of yours. Now we’re forced to live under these circumstances.
Father: Have I done so wrong? I’ve done all this because of you. What’s gotten into you? You have everything at your disposal. If you think somewhere else is better, go!
Of course he has no idea that she wants to be…gay.
Mother [to Atayeh]: Sometimes, we just have to accept our reality.
And so Shireen and Mehran are married.
Atafeh: What’s wrong? What’s wrong, Shireen? What’s wrong? We’re alone. We’re alone today. What’s wrong with you? Are you afraid? What are you afraid of?
[she points to the camera]
Atafeh: Are you afraid of that? Is that it, Shireen, you afraid of that? Is that what you’re afraid of? Why? We can leave.
Will she or won’t she? No, she doesn’t. Now to the part that is forever embedded in the uncertainty [the ambiguity] of human psychology: Why? And then: Did she do the right thing?
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Sex
“I'm fresh out of fucks to give.” Tucker Max
In that case, welcome aboard.
“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it. ” Richard P. Feynman
Let alone how we do it.
“Lady and gentleman, when my parents left Korea with nothing but the clothes on their backs and the considerable wealth they had amassed in the shipping business, they had a dream. They had a dream that one day amid the snowy hilltops of western North Carolina, their son would lose his virginity to a cheerleader in the woman's bathroom of a Waffle House just off the interstate. My parents have sacrificed so much for this dream! And that is why we must journey on, despite all trials and tribulations! Not for me and least of all for the poor cheerleader in question, but for my parents and indeed for all immigrants who came to his great nation in what they themselves could never have: CHEERLEADER SEX.” John Green
I came close. Twice.
“It is a terrible error to let any natural impulse, physical or mental, stagnate. Crush it out, if you will, and be done with it; or fulfil it, and get it out of the system; but do not allow it to remain there and putrefy. The suppression of the normal sex instinct, for example, is responsible for a thousand ills. In Puritan countries one inevitably finds a morbid preoccupation with sex coupled with every form of perversion and degeneracy. ” Aleister Crowley
You know what's coming: https://www.amazon.com/Irrational-Polit ... 0961328967
“The eyes are one of the most powerful tools a woman can have. With one look, she can relay the most intimate message. After the connection is made, words cease to exist." Jennifer Salaiz
Someone run this by, well, you know.
“I think a man's 'wordplay' can be so fucking sexy!!! I love a good mind fuck!!” Junnita Jackson
Uh, start here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/your- ... uote/81697
Pick 3:
“I'm fresh out of fucks to give.” Tucker Max
In that case, welcome aboard.
“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it. ” Richard P. Feynman
Let alone how we do it.
“Lady and gentleman, when my parents left Korea with nothing but the clothes on their backs and the considerable wealth they had amassed in the shipping business, they had a dream. They had a dream that one day amid the snowy hilltops of western North Carolina, their son would lose his virginity to a cheerleader in the woman's bathroom of a Waffle House just off the interstate. My parents have sacrificed so much for this dream! And that is why we must journey on, despite all trials and tribulations! Not for me and least of all for the poor cheerleader in question, but for my parents and indeed for all immigrants who came to his great nation in what they themselves could never have: CHEERLEADER SEX.” John Green
I came close. Twice.
“It is a terrible error to let any natural impulse, physical or mental, stagnate. Crush it out, if you will, and be done with it; or fulfil it, and get it out of the system; but do not allow it to remain there and putrefy. The suppression of the normal sex instinct, for example, is responsible for a thousand ills. In Puritan countries one inevitably finds a morbid preoccupation with sex coupled with every form of perversion and degeneracy. ” Aleister Crowley
You know what's coming: https://www.amazon.com/Irrational-Polit ... 0961328967
“The eyes are one of the most powerful tools a woman can have. With one look, she can relay the most intimate message. After the connection is made, words cease to exist." Jennifer Salaiz
Someone run this by, well, you know.
“I think a man's 'wordplay' can be so fucking sexy!!! I love a good mind fuck!!” Junnita Jackson
Uh, start here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/your- ... uote/81697
Pick 3:
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
From the director of Tetsuo, the Iron Man. But nothing at all like it. Unless perhaps it is. In other words, I completely missed it. But, really, is that even possible?
On the other hand, it’s surrealistic “look” [and non-linear narrative] is much the same. We live. We die. And [for most of us] sex seems to be everywhere in between.
Described as an “erotic thriller” by some [and pornography by others], it explores the twisted pathways that can exist between one particular frame of mind in one particular context as it struggles to reconcile mind and matter that has become twisted – tied in knots – in the labyrinth that is the human libido. After all, who is to say what makes sense where these two meet? So, it is not like you can be expected to “learn” anything from it.
Not if you cannot even imagine looking at the world around you from Rinko’s perspective. Or the husband’s. Or the interloper’s. Uniquely existential points of view as they stumble down into a set of circumstances that will be equally alien to anything most of us have ever experienced.
Would we do this? Could we do this? And how would we react if someone were to do it to us?
Someone is blackmailing Rinko. He has pictures of her masturbating and will exchange the negatives for certain, well, considerations. You can imagine what they might be. But given the constricted relationship she has with her neurotic and repressed husband how far does she really have to be pushed? And the tormentor? Let’s just say that he is dying from cancer.
Death it seems is always [one way or another] a subtext in his films. Mimicking human reality as it were.
Look for the orgasms: and then ask yourself: is this agony or ecstasy?
A Snake of June [Rokugatsu No Hebi]
Voice on phone [to Rinko]: You know, you’re right. One must find something to live for. Why don’t you do what you really want? Dress in the skirt you cut short and go out.
For starters let's say.
Rinko: Do you think I can trust someone who is so sleazy?
Voice on phone: I’m not asking you for sex. I’m telling you to do what you already want to do.
So, what would you like to do? If only virtually.
Voice on phone: How about next Saturday? Your husband is working but you will be off.
Rinko: I’ll call the police.
Voice on phone: Go ahead. We’ll meet in Hell.
Rinko: Why? Why me?!
Voice on phone: You made me want to live.
That'll work for me too.
Voice in her ear: Did you change into the skirt?
Rinko: Look, I want to talk to you. We can meet in a cafe. I can’t do this!
Voice in her ear: You can do it when you are alone.
Rinko: You caught me the only time I did it.
Voice in her ear: Tell me what made you become so daring at this rainy time of the year? Something has burst open in you. Don’t be afraid. You can do it. Don’t worry how people react. Show them who you are.
The naked truth.
Voice in her ear: No underwear. Just like when you did it alone.
I didn't notice any.
[Rinko is in the restroom…obviously aroused by the experience]
Voice in her ear: Let’s buy a vibrator now.
Rinko: What?
Voice in her ear: You want it, don’t you? It’s time to buy one.
You know where.
Sex store proprietor to Rinko [as she hesitantly reaches towards the vibrators]: What? Which one? The big one?
[pause]
Sex store proprietor: I was wondering about you…prowling around the entrance. So you wanted this, eh?
How big is yours?
Rinko [on phone]: You needed someone to make fun of before you die. Someone incapable of knowing her husband’s feelings. A dummy like me who can’t do what she really wants to do. You’re dying. So why don’t you do it alone and peacefully?
Nope. It seems he has a marriage to save.
On the other hand, it’s surrealistic “look” [and non-linear narrative] is much the same. We live. We die. And [for most of us] sex seems to be everywhere in between.
Described as an “erotic thriller” by some [and pornography by others], it explores the twisted pathways that can exist between one particular frame of mind in one particular context as it struggles to reconcile mind and matter that has become twisted – tied in knots – in the labyrinth that is the human libido. After all, who is to say what makes sense where these two meet? So, it is not like you can be expected to “learn” anything from it.
Not if you cannot even imagine looking at the world around you from Rinko’s perspective. Or the husband’s. Or the interloper’s. Uniquely existential points of view as they stumble down into a set of circumstances that will be equally alien to anything most of us have ever experienced.
Would we do this? Could we do this? And how would we react if someone were to do it to us?
Someone is blackmailing Rinko. He has pictures of her masturbating and will exchange the negatives for certain, well, considerations. You can imagine what they might be. But given the constricted relationship she has with her neurotic and repressed husband how far does she really have to be pushed? And the tormentor? Let’s just say that he is dying from cancer.
Death it seems is always [one way or another] a subtext in his films. Mimicking human reality as it were.
Look for the orgasms: and then ask yourself: is this agony or ecstasy?
A Snake of June [Rokugatsu No Hebi]
Voice on phone [to Rinko]: You know, you’re right. One must find something to live for. Why don’t you do what you really want? Dress in the skirt you cut short and go out.
For starters let's say.
Rinko: Do you think I can trust someone who is so sleazy?
Voice on phone: I’m not asking you for sex. I’m telling you to do what you already want to do.
So, what would you like to do? If only virtually.
Voice on phone: How about next Saturday? Your husband is working but you will be off.
Rinko: I’ll call the police.
Voice on phone: Go ahead. We’ll meet in Hell.
Rinko: Why? Why me?!
Voice on phone: You made me want to live.
That'll work for me too.
Voice in her ear: Did you change into the skirt?
Rinko: Look, I want to talk to you. We can meet in a cafe. I can’t do this!
Voice in her ear: You can do it when you are alone.
Rinko: You caught me the only time I did it.
Voice in her ear: Tell me what made you become so daring at this rainy time of the year? Something has burst open in you. Don’t be afraid. You can do it. Don’t worry how people react. Show them who you are.
The naked truth.
Voice in her ear: No underwear. Just like when you did it alone.
I didn't notice any.
[Rinko is in the restroom…obviously aroused by the experience]
Voice in her ear: Let’s buy a vibrator now.
Rinko: What?
Voice in her ear: You want it, don’t you? It’s time to buy one.
You know where.
Sex store proprietor to Rinko [as she hesitantly reaches towards the vibrators]: What? Which one? The big one?
[pause]
Sex store proprietor: I was wondering about you…prowling around the entrance. So you wanted this, eh?
How big is yours?
Rinko [on phone]: You needed someone to make fun of before you die. Someone incapable of knowing her husband’s feelings. A dummy like me who can’t do what she really wants to do. You’re dying. So why don’t you do it alone and peacefully?
Nope. It seems he has a marriage to save.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
On the Science Channel [Through the Wormhole] they aired a documentary on zombies. In other words, exploring the extent to which this phenomenon might actually go beyond the science fiction or horror genre.
The speculation being that, unlike, say, vampires, human zombies are not at all out of the question. As “in reality”. Maybe not Hollywood zombies, but nonetheless somewhere in [or at least around] the ballpark.
Unfortunately, World War Z did not take this more intriguing, informative, thought-provoking path. It decided instead to take the CGI blockbuster path. To wit: take away the special effects and what is really there at all?
Besides, in the covid wracked world today, it’s not really human zombies that frighten most folks. In other words, it's an even deadlier worldwide health epidemic that might become airborne and start to spread like wildfire. And then the resulting panic…with a brand new moral code all its own: every man for himself. And every woman too. Looting? You bet. Even the cops are doing it.
And with zombies, it’s not like you can hold them morally responsible for what they do.
In the interim, though, there are plenty of other zombies around. For example, the intellectual zombies. Intellectual zombies that are objectivists. Or intellectual zombies that are the masses. Though not necessarily in that order.
Been bitten? Start counting…
Max Brooks publicly stated that he felt the film had very little in common with his book beyond the central storyline. IMDb
World War Z
Daughter: Daddy, what’s Martial Law?
Gerry: Ah, Martial Law is like…um…house rules…but for everybody.
In theory.
[message on a loop from the radio]
The following messages transmitted at the request of the New Jersey State Police Department. It is recommended that the following action should be taken by all members of the public: Stay indoor as if at all possible. Gather up food and water supplies for sheltering for 1 to 2 weeks. The following messages transmitted at the request of the New Jersey State Police Department…
And then all the loops here.
Thierry [to Gerry]: The President is dead. Four of six joint chiefs. VP missing. Reports of gun battles in the streets of the capital. The parties are all in a panic. The biggest cities are the worst off. The airlines were the perfect delivery system.
Hollywood! Cue the CGI!!
Scientist: The analogy I would use goes back to the Spanish Flu. It didn’t exist in 1918 but by 1920 it had killed 3 percent of the world’s population.
Tell us about it. Again.
Thierry [to Gerry]: If we knew where this thing started then we’d have a chance of developing a vaccine to stop it.
And only one [white] man can…
Naval Commander: I need you to help.
Gerry: You’re asking me to leave my family.
Naval Commander: I’m not going to force you, but don’t pretend you’re not well-suited for the job.
Gerry: I can’t leave my family.
Naval Commander: I don’t believe your family is exempt when we talk about the end of humanity.
Hell, that might even include us.
Naval Commander [to Gerry]: Take a good look around here, Mr. Lane. Each and everyone of these people are here because they serve a purpose. There’s no room here for non-essential personnel. There’s a long line of people waiting for one of those bunks. You wanna help your family? Help us figure out how to stop this.
It all sounds scripted to me.
Andrew: Mother Nature is a serial killer. No one’s better. More creative. Like all serial killers, she can’t help but the urge to want to get caught. But what good are all those brilliant crimes if no one takes the credit? So she leaves crumbs. Now the hard part, while you spent decades in school, is seeing the crumbs for the clues they are. Sometimes the thing you thought was the most brutal aspect of the virus, turns out to be the chink in its armor. And she loves disguising her weaknesses as strengths. She’s a bitch.
Jesus, what could God have been thinking?!
Gerry: How did you guys survive all this?
Soldier: The expenditure of ammunition.
That'll do it. Or not as the case may be.
Gerry: You’re with the CIA?
Ex-CIA Agent: But they’re not with me.
Not much that can't mean.
Jurgen Warmbrunn: The tenth man. If 9 of us look at the same information and arrive at the exact same conclusion, it is the duty of the tenth man to disagree. No matter how improbable it may seem, the tenth man has to start digging on the assumption that the other nine are wrong.
Gerry: And you were that 10th man.
Jurgen Warmbrunn: Precisely. Since everyone assumed this talk of zombies was a cover for something else I began my investigation on the assumption that when they said “zombies” they meant zombies.
Click, of course.
Jurgen Warmbrunn: Most people don’t believe something can happen until it already has. That’s not stupidity or weakness, that’s just human nature.
Tell us about it!
W.H.O. Doctor: You can’t make a dead person sick.
That does seem improbable.
Gerry: I have witnessed how they’ve literally bypassed people. Walked right around them like the river round a rock. Why? I think because those people were sick. They were terminal. And these things could sense it. I think they’re spreading a pathogen and need a healthy host.
Doctor: But even if you're right, I mean infecting the populace with a lethal illness is not exactly a cure.
Gerry: It’s not a cure. It’s camouflage.
It still is.
Gerry [voiceover]: This isn’t the end. Not even close.
I smell a sequel. Maybe even a whole fucking franchise! Or, sure, maybe not.
The speculation being that, unlike, say, vampires, human zombies are not at all out of the question. As “in reality”. Maybe not Hollywood zombies, but nonetheless somewhere in [or at least around] the ballpark.
Unfortunately, World War Z did not take this more intriguing, informative, thought-provoking path. It decided instead to take the CGI blockbuster path. To wit: take away the special effects and what is really there at all?
Besides, in the covid wracked world today, it’s not really human zombies that frighten most folks. In other words, it's an even deadlier worldwide health epidemic that might become airborne and start to spread like wildfire. And then the resulting panic…with a brand new moral code all its own: every man for himself. And every woman too. Looting? You bet. Even the cops are doing it.
And with zombies, it’s not like you can hold them morally responsible for what they do.
In the interim, though, there are plenty of other zombies around. For example, the intellectual zombies. Intellectual zombies that are objectivists. Or intellectual zombies that are the masses. Though not necessarily in that order.
Been bitten? Start counting…
Max Brooks publicly stated that he felt the film had very little in common with his book beyond the central storyline. IMDb
World War Z
Daughter: Daddy, what’s Martial Law?
Gerry: Ah, Martial Law is like…um…house rules…but for everybody.
In theory.
[message on a loop from the radio]
The following messages transmitted at the request of the New Jersey State Police Department. It is recommended that the following action should be taken by all members of the public: Stay indoor as if at all possible. Gather up food and water supplies for sheltering for 1 to 2 weeks. The following messages transmitted at the request of the New Jersey State Police Department…
And then all the loops here.
Thierry [to Gerry]: The President is dead. Four of six joint chiefs. VP missing. Reports of gun battles in the streets of the capital. The parties are all in a panic. The biggest cities are the worst off. The airlines were the perfect delivery system.
Hollywood! Cue the CGI!!
Scientist: The analogy I would use goes back to the Spanish Flu. It didn’t exist in 1918 but by 1920 it had killed 3 percent of the world’s population.
Tell us about it. Again.
Thierry [to Gerry]: If we knew where this thing started then we’d have a chance of developing a vaccine to stop it.
And only one [white] man can…
Naval Commander: I need you to help.
Gerry: You’re asking me to leave my family.
Naval Commander: I’m not going to force you, but don’t pretend you’re not well-suited for the job.
Gerry: I can’t leave my family.
Naval Commander: I don’t believe your family is exempt when we talk about the end of humanity.
Hell, that might even include us.
Naval Commander [to Gerry]: Take a good look around here, Mr. Lane. Each and everyone of these people are here because they serve a purpose. There’s no room here for non-essential personnel. There’s a long line of people waiting for one of those bunks. You wanna help your family? Help us figure out how to stop this.
It all sounds scripted to me.
Andrew: Mother Nature is a serial killer. No one’s better. More creative. Like all serial killers, she can’t help but the urge to want to get caught. But what good are all those brilliant crimes if no one takes the credit? So she leaves crumbs. Now the hard part, while you spent decades in school, is seeing the crumbs for the clues they are. Sometimes the thing you thought was the most brutal aspect of the virus, turns out to be the chink in its armor. And she loves disguising her weaknesses as strengths. She’s a bitch.
Jesus, what could God have been thinking?!
Gerry: How did you guys survive all this?
Soldier: The expenditure of ammunition.
That'll do it. Or not as the case may be.
Gerry: You’re with the CIA?
Ex-CIA Agent: But they’re not with me.
Not much that can't mean.
Jurgen Warmbrunn: The tenth man. If 9 of us look at the same information and arrive at the exact same conclusion, it is the duty of the tenth man to disagree. No matter how improbable it may seem, the tenth man has to start digging on the assumption that the other nine are wrong.
Gerry: And you were that 10th man.
Jurgen Warmbrunn: Precisely. Since everyone assumed this talk of zombies was a cover for something else I began my investigation on the assumption that when they said “zombies” they meant zombies.
Click, of course.
Jurgen Warmbrunn: Most people don’t believe something can happen until it already has. That’s not stupidity or weakness, that’s just human nature.
Tell us about it!
W.H.O. Doctor: You can’t make a dead person sick.
That does seem improbable.
Gerry: I have witnessed how they’ve literally bypassed people. Walked right around them like the river round a rock. Why? I think because those people were sick. They were terminal. And these things could sense it. I think they’re spreading a pathogen and need a healthy host.
Doctor: But even if you're right, I mean infecting the populace with a lethal illness is not exactly a cure.
Gerry: It’s not a cure. It’s camouflage.
It still is.
Gerry [voiceover]: This isn’t the end. Not even close.
I smell a sequel. Maybe even a whole fucking franchise! Or, sure, maybe not.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Heaven
“Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish—a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow—to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whisky, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested . . . Res ipsa loquitur. Let the good times roll.” Hunter S. Thompson
Well, back then maybe.
"Heaven and Hell seem out of proportion to me: the actions of men do not deserve so much.” Jorge Luis Borges
Now that you mention it...
“You have lost your reason and taken the wrong path. You have taken lies for truth, and hideousness for beauty. You would marvel if, owing to strange events of some sorts, frogs and lizards suddenly grew on apple and orange trees instead of fruit, or if roses began to smell like a sweating horse; so I marvel at you who exchange Heaven for Earth. I don't want to understand you.” Anton Chekhov
How about now, Anton?
“What makes Earth feel like Hell is our expectation that it should feel like Heaven.” Chuck Palahniuk
You know, among many, many, many other things.
“Do people look the same when they go to heaven, mommy?"
"I don't know. I don't think so."
"Then how do people recognize each other?"
"I don't know, sweetie. They just feel it. You don't need your eyes to love, right?” R.J. Palacio
Kids!
"animals never worry about Heaven or Hell
neither do I
maybe that's why we get along” Charles Bukowski
Next up: naked apes.
“Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish—a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow—to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whisky, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested . . . Res ipsa loquitur. Let the good times roll.” Hunter S. Thompson
Well, back then maybe.
"Heaven and Hell seem out of proportion to me: the actions of men do not deserve so much.” Jorge Luis Borges
Now that you mention it...
“You have lost your reason and taken the wrong path. You have taken lies for truth, and hideousness for beauty. You would marvel if, owing to strange events of some sorts, frogs and lizards suddenly grew on apple and orange trees instead of fruit, or if roses began to smell like a sweating horse; so I marvel at you who exchange Heaven for Earth. I don't want to understand you.” Anton Chekhov
How about now, Anton?
“What makes Earth feel like Hell is our expectation that it should feel like Heaven.” Chuck Palahniuk
You know, among many, many, many other things.
“Do people look the same when they go to heaven, mommy?"
"I don't know. I don't think so."
"Then how do people recognize each other?"
"I don't know, sweetie. They just feel it. You don't need your eyes to love, right?” R.J. Palacio
Kids!
"animals never worry about Heaven or Hell
neither do I
maybe that's why we get along” Charles Bukowski
Next up: naked apes.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Determinism
"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.” Arthur Schopenhauer
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
“Life calls the tune, we dance.” John Galsworthy
The tango, I'm guessing.
“But recently I have learned from discussions with a variety of scientists and other non-philosophers...that they lean the other way: free will, in their view, is obviously incompatible with naturalism, with determinism, and very likely incoherent against any background, so they cheerfully insist that of course they don't have free will, couldn’t have free will, but so what? " Daniel C. Dennett
Then the part where some acknowledge we may or may not have free will, but we act as though we do.
". . . I know, Your Honor, that every atom of life in all this universe is bound up together. I know that a pebble cannot be thrown into the ocean without disturbing every drop of water in the sea. I know that every life is inextricably mixed and woven with every other life. I know that every influence, conscious and unconscious, acts and reacts on every living organism, and that no one can fix the blame. I know that all life is a series of infinite chances, which sometimes result one way and sometimes another. I have not the infinite wisdom that can fathom it, neither has any other human brain.” Clarence Darrow
Well -- click -- not counting all the objectivists here.
“Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.” Max Ehrmann
As it must?
“We ought to regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its antecedent state and as the cause of the state that is to follow. An intelligence knowing all the forces acting in nature at a given instant, as well as the momentary positions of all things in the universe, would be able to comprehend in one single formula the motions of the largest bodies as well as the lightest atoms in the world, provided that its intellect were sufficiently powerful to subject all data to analysis; to it nothing would be uncertain, the future as well as the past would be present to its eyes. The perfection that the human mind has been able to give to astronomy affords but a feeble outline of such an intelligence.” Pierre Simon de Laplace
You tell me.
"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.” Arthur Schopenhauer
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
“Life calls the tune, we dance.” John Galsworthy
The tango, I'm guessing.
“But recently I have learned from discussions with a variety of scientists and other non-philosophers...that they lean the other way: free will, in their view, is obviously incompatible with naturalism, with determinism, and very likely incoherent against any background, so they cheerfully insist that of course they don't have free will, couldn’t have free will, but so what? " Daniel C. Dennett
Then the part where some acknowledge we may or may not have free will, but we act as though we do.
". . . I know, Your Honor, that every atom of life in all this universe is bound up together. I know that a pebble cannot be thrown into the ocean without disturbing every drop of water in the sea. I know that every life is inextricably mixed and woven with every other life. I know that every influence, conscious and unconscious, acts and reacts on every living organism, and that no one can fix the blame. I know that all life is a series of infinite chances, which sometimes result one way and sometimes another. I have not the infinite wisdom that can fathom it, neither has any other human brain.” Clarence Darrow
Well -- click -- not counting all the objectivists here.
“Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.” Max Ehrmann
As it must?
“We ought to regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its antecedent state and as the cause of the state that is to follow. An intelligence knowing all the forces acting in nature at a given instant, as well as the momentary positions of all things in the universe, would be able to comprehend in one single formula the motions of the largest bodies as well as the lightest atoms in the world, provided that its intellect were sufficiently powerful to subject all data to analysis; to it nothing would be uncertain, the future as well as the past would be present to its eyes. The perfection that the human mind has been able to give to astronomy affords but a feeble outline of such an intelligence.” Pierre Simon de Laplace
You tell me.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
“A slice of life” approach to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. In other words, most of the stuff we read about in the papers or see on the news gives way to actual flesh and blood human beings who have to live “inside” the conflict from day to day.
Here’s what happens:
The Israeli Defense Minister has moved into a new residence. The house however lies adjacent to an orchard of lemon trees owned by the family of a Palestinian woman. So, in order to make his home more secure the Israeli government issues an order to cut the lemon trees down. After all, the Palestinian “terrorists” could use it for cover.
Might makes right? Well, the woman hires an attorney to prevent the order from being carried out. And in doing this she comes into contact the wife of the defense minister. They set an example [of sorts] that allows folks to imagine how the conflict might be mitigated if only everyone would make an effort to see things from the perspective of “the other”.
A classic historical/existential context in which what is deemed “reasonable” and “moral” are only points of view. In fact, can only be points of view. And therefore all we can do is to react to them from within the framework of our own point of view. This film is basically about the ofttimes profoundly problematic relationship between “I” and “we”…between “us” and “them”.
Look for the walls.
Lemon Tree [Etz Limon]
Mira Navon [Defense Minister’s wife]: When will you be back?
Israel Navon [Defense Minister]: Two days, if there are no surprises up north…
Mira: A bit scary sleeping here alone.
Israel: Scary? Why? Both the army and Secret Service are here. Today they’re installing the best technology to protect you.
On the other hand...
Gilad [security man]: What can I say, Jacob, I don’t like this grove.
Jacob: I told you, this grove’s over 50 years old and nothing ever happened. I know the owner, a poor, lonely woman who hardly lives off her lemons.
Security man: But what will keep a terrorist from entering the grove, gathering intelligence, throwing a grenade, whatever. Before we respond, he’ll be asleep in Nablus.
Jacob: Gilad, security fences, watch towers, sensors, soldiers, the Secret Service. Not enough? What else can we do?
Guess.
Salma Zidane: Hello, Abu Camal.
Camal: Hello, Um Nasser.
Salma: I came because I received this letter. You know I can’t read Hebrew. And I have a feeling it’s important.
Camal: It’s from the Central Region Commander, the son of a bitch, informing you they will cut down your lemon grove, because the trees pose a threat to the safety of the Defense Minister who lives across from you. “An immediate and absolute military necessity.”
[Salma starts to weep]
Camal: What’s wrong, Um Nasser? Why are you crying? Do you know how much land they confiscated to build prisons for us? And how many houses they demolished? It says here you are eligible for compensation. The Israelis are so generous…But we don’t take their money. You understand that, right?
Would you take it?
Ziad Daud [lawyer]: It’s not easy being their Defense Minister’s neighbor, huh?
Salma: I live only off this grove.
Ziad: They offered you compensation, you know that, right?
Salma: I know, but I inherited the grove from my late father, no money can compensate for that.
Oh, yeah, that part.
Israel: She’s suing me.
Mira: Really? What did we do to her?
Israel: Nothing yet, but we will. We are cutting down all her trees.
Mira: Why?
Salma: Because terrorists might infiltrate Israel through her grove. Makes sense, no? Why are you looking at me like that? I have nothing against her.
Mira: So who does?
Salma: The Secret Service do, and I trust their judgment.
It's all so "official".
Lawyer for the state: Your Honor, I’m sure the army thanks the learned attorney for his advise on lsrael’s security, but as I’ve already stated, the grove poses a real and imminent threat to the Minister’s household and to the State, so…
Ziad: How can you claim my client’s grove poses a threat to the state’s security? It’s been there for over 50 years, and not a single shot was fired from it.
Lawyer: Only since September 2000, more than 20,000 terror attacks were perpetrated by terror organizations on the lives, bodies and property of Jewish civilians. Terrorists will use the appellant’s grove to gather intelligence, throw grenades or bombs at the house, shoot at it…while taking cover among the trees, unseen by the army.
Etc etc etc. That “bigger” context.
[The judge makes his decision]:Judge: “For the record: The Military Authorities’ decision to uproot the grove was taken after contemplating various alternatives to minimize the damage caused to the proprietress. The security authorities are willing to compensate her if only as a token of the State’s good faith and generosity, although the lntifadah Act authorizes the Defense Minister to proclaim the grove a hostile territory, thereby exempting the State from any kind of compensation. Therefore, the court rejects the appeal and orders the uprooting of the trees ASAP. Until then, the grove is to be fenced in, and Mrs. Zidane or her proxies are banned from entering the parameter.”
Let's run this by the God of Abraham.
Salma: I won’t let them touch my trees.
Ziad: It’s the court’s decision, there’s nothing we can do.
There never will be for some of us.
Israel: She’s going to the Supreme Court.
Mira: I’m not surprised. I’d have done the same. She’s protecting her home, lsrael, what did you expect?
Israel: It happens all the time, it’s part of the history of this place.
Mira: Only this time it’s because of us.
Israel: Because of me, you mean. What can I do? Go against the system because of a few lemon trees?
Mira: You’re the Defense Minister, you can revoke the order.
Israel: Supposing I do that, what then? Somebody will come up here and shoot you? Really, Mira, what do you want? Want us to move out?
Mira: There must be another solution. So maybe it’s about time. Tighten the security.
Israel: Why not bring all the army? Leave Lebanon and the territories, just to watch over you?
Imagine this all unfolding today.
American reporter: The Supreme Court convenes tomorrow over your Palestinian neighbor’s appeal. How will you respond if she wins?
Israel: This thing reached even the USA? Really, there’s a limit…or maybe there isn’t. Israel’s mere existence is under threat, and you’re dealing with lemons?
Pick one:
1] might makes right.
2] might makes right
3] might makes right
Camal: Um Nasser, I hear bad things, you hear? People say bad things about you. You are a respectable woman, and you raised very respectable daughters. So what happened? What’s the story with the lawyer? I hear he’s your son’s age. Um Nasser, I won’t let anyone desecrate the memory and honor of your late husband. Not even you. Don’t make me come here again.
In other words, the Palestinian community [the men, the leaders] are just as dictatorial and repressive towards her as the Israeli state.
Reporter: So, being the Defense Minister’s neighbor isn’t easy, is it?
Salma: Ever since they moved in, my life has turned into hell. And yesterday the Minister himself stole some of my lemons.
Reporter: The Minister? How so?
Salma: He sent his soldiers into my grove to pick lemons for his party, didn’t even bother to ask my permission.
What, with the "mere existence of Israel" itself on the line?
[the state supreme court rules]:Justice: We believe the individual right to a dwelling providing adequate protection for life and body, supersedes the right of possession of land and its ingrained, provided the breach of this right is kept most minimal in attaining the required purpose. In order to give sufficient response to the security demands, we decided that it would suffice to prune, not uproot, 50% of the trees down to 30 centemeters. This would allow a be clear view into the grove neighboring with the Defense Minister’s house.
Salma [standing up]: Your proposal dishonors me, my late father and my late husband. My trees are real. My life is real. You’re already building a wall around us. Isn’t that enough?
Justice: Mrs. Zidane, please sit down. Now. In the event that having taken the above actions the respondent will conclude that the security demands are not being met, and the full measure, i.e. uprooting the trees, is required, the respondent may appeal to the court and the court will re deliberate the matter.
Up goes the wall and down come the trees.
Here’s what happens:
The Israeli Defense Minister has moved into a new residence. The house however lies adjacent to an orchard of lemon trees owned by the family of a Palestinian woman. So, in order to make his home more secure the Israeli government issues an order to cut the lemon trees down. After all, the Palestinian “terrorists” could use it for cover.
Might makes right? Well, the woman hires an attorney to prevent the order from being carried out. And in doing this she comes into contact the wife of the defense minister. They set an example [of sorts] that allows folks to imagine how the conflict might be mitigated if only everyone would make an effort to see things from the perspective of “the other”.
A classic historical/existential context in which what is deemed “reasonable” and “moral” are only points of view. In fact, can only be points of view. And therefore all we can do is to react to them from within the framework of our own point of view. This film is basically about the ofttimes profoundly problematic relationship between “I” and “we”…between “us” and “them”.
Look for the walls.
Lemon Tree [Etz Limon]
Mira Navon [Defense Minister’s wife]: When will you be back?
Israel Navon [Defense Minister]: Two days, if there are no surprises up north…
Mira: A bit scary sleeping here alone.
Israel: Scary? Why? Both the army and Secret Service are here. Today they’re installing the best technology to protect you.
On the other hand...
Gilad [security man]: What can I say, Jacob, I don’t like this grove.
Jacob: I told you, this grove’s over 50 years old and nothing ever happened. I know the owner, a poor, lonely woman who hardly lives off her lemons.
Security man: But what will keep a terrorist from entering the grove, gathering intelligence, throwing a grenade, whatever. Before we respond, he’ll be asleep in Nablus.
Jacob: Gilad, security fences, watch towers, sensors, soldiers, the Secret Service. Not enough? What else can we do?
Guess.
Salma Zidane: Hello, Abu Camal.
Camal: Hello, Um Nasser.
Salma: I came because I received this letter. You know I can’t read Hebrew. And I have a feeling it’s important.
Camal: It’s from the Central Region Commander, the son of a bitch, informing you they will cut down your lemon grove, because the trees pose a threat to the safety of the Defense Minister who lives across from you. “An immediate and absolute military necessity.”
[Salma starts to weep]
Camal: What’s wrong, Um Nasser? Why are you crying? Do you know how much land they confiscated to build prisons for us? And how many houses they demolished? It says here you are eligible for compensation. The Israelis are so generous…But we don’t take their money. You understand that, right?
Would you take it?
Ziad Daud [lawyer]: It’s not easy being their Defense Minister’s neighbor, huh?
Salma: I live only off this grove.
Ziad: They offered you compensation, you know that, right?
Salma: I know, but I inherited the grove from my late father, no money can compensate for that.
Oh, yeah, that part.
Israel: She’s suing me.
Mira: Really? What did we do to her?
Israel: Nothing yet, but we will. We are cutting down all her trees.
Mira: Why?
Salma: Because terrorists might infiltrate Israel through her grove. Makes sense, no? Why are you looking at me like that? I have nothing against her.
Mira: So who does?
Salma: The Secret Service do, and I trust their judgment.
It's all so "official".
Lawyer for the state: Your Honor, I’m sure the army thanks the learned attorney for his advise on lsrael’s security, but as I’ve already stated, the grove poses a real and imminent threat to the Minister’s household and to the State, so…
Ziad: How can you claim my client’s grove poses a threat to the state’s security? It’s been there for over 50 years, and not a single shot was fired from it.
Lawyer: Only since September 2000, more than 20,000 terror attacks were perpetrated by terror organizations on the lives, bodies and property of Jewish civilians. Terrorists will use the appellant’s grove to gather intelligence, throw grenades or bombs at the house, shoot at it…while taking cover among the trees, unseen by the army.
Etc etc etc. That “bigger” context.
[The judge makes his decision]:Judge: “For the record: The Military Authorities’ decision to uproot the grove was taken after contemplating various alternatives to minimize the damage caused to the proprietress. The security authorities are willing to compensate her if only as a token of the State’s good faith and generosity, although the lntifadah Act authorizes the Defense Minister to proclaim the grove a hostile territory, thereby exempting the State from any kind of compensation. Therefore, the court rejects the appeal and orders the uprooting of the trees ASAP. Until then, the grove is to be fenced in, and Mrs. Zidane or her proxies are banned from entering the parameter.”
Let's run this by the God of Abraham.
Salma: I won’t let them touch my trees.
Ziad: It’s the court’s decision, there’s nothing we can do.
There never will be for some of us.
Israel: She’s going to the Supreme Court.
Mira: I’m not surprised. I’d have done the same. She’s protecting her home, lsrael, what did you expect?
Israel: It happens all the time, it’s part of the history of this place.
Mira: Only this time it’s because of us.
Israel: Because of me, you mean. What can I do? Go against the system because of a few lemon trees?
Mira: You’re the Defense Minister, you can revoke the order.
Israel: Supposing I do that, what then? Somebody will come up here and shoot you? Really, Mira, what do you want? Want us to move out?
Mira: There must be another solution. So maybe it’s about time. Tighten the security.
Israel: Why not bring all the army? Leave Lebanon and the territories, just to watch over you?
Imagine this all unfolding today.
American reporter: The Supreme Court convenes tomorrow over your Palestinian neighbor’s appeal. How will you respond if she wins?
Israel: This thing reached even the USA? Really, there’s a limit…or maybe there isn’t. Israel’s mere existence is under threat, and you’re dealing with lemons?
Pick one:
1] might makes right.
2] might makes right
3] might makes right
Camal: Um Nasser, I hear bad things, you hear? People say bad things about you. You are a respectable woman, and you raised very respectable daughters. So what happened? What’s the story with the lawyer? I hear he’s your son’s age. Um Nasser, I won’t let anyone desecrate the memory and honor of your late husband. Not even you. Don’t make me come here again.
In other words, the Palestinian community [the men, the leaders] are just as dictatorial and repressive towards her as the Israeli state.
Reporter: So, being the Defense Minister’s neighbor isn’t easy, is it?
Salma: Ever since they moved in, my life has turned into hell. And yesterday the Minister himself stole some of my lemons.
Reporter: The Minister? How so?
Salma: He sent his soldiers into my grove to pick lemons for his party, didn’t even bother to ask my permission.
What, with the "mere existence of Israel" itself on the line?
[the state supreme court rules]:Justice: We believe the individual right to a dwelling providing adequate protection for life and body, supersedes the right of possession of land and its ingrained, provided the breach of this right is kept most minimal in attaining the required purpose. In order to give sufficient response to the security demands, we decided that it would suffice to prune, not uproot, 50% of the trees down to 30 centemeters. This would allow a be clear view into the grove neighboring with the Defense Minister’s house.
Salma [standing up]: Your proposal dishonors me, my late father and my late husband. My trees are real. My life is real. You’re already building a wall around us. Isn’t that enough?
Justice: Mrs. Zidane, please sit down. Now. In the event that having taken the above actions the respondent will conclude that the security demands are not being met, and the full measure, i.e. uprooting the trees, is required, the respondent may appeal to the court and the court will re deliberate the matter.
Up goes the wall and down come the trees.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
It’s always fascinating to ponder: what if a prehistoric man could be found encased in ice [somewhere above, say, the Arctic Circle] and then actually brought back to life? What would he be able to teach us about our very distant ancestors?
But then you can probably guess where a movie like this might choose to go: What might this prehistoric man teach us about ourselves instead?
As usual there is the inevitable clash of “interests”. The medical scientists want only to dissect him in order to probe him from the inside out. The anthropologist however wants to build a “vivarium” instead, in order to “study” him in his natural habitat – or as close to it as they can come.
And what a vivarium! I mean, what are the odds that they would have something like this just hanging around above the Arctic Circle?
Then there are the rest of the folks – they work for the company that found the iceman.
But then [just as inevitably] the new world is discovered by the iceman. Talk about cultural shock. What the hell is a Neanderthal man to make of a plastic hose that leads to a, well, you know what it leads to: the 20th century.
And before long there’s a body count.
As for “the science” behind all of this? Well, this was filmed in the mid-eighties. Who is to say how accurate it might have been then and how scientists might react to it today. Not me, in other words.
And when Shephard “frees” him to complete his “dream walk”: was that the Right Thing To Do?
And the iceman? He is played by John Lone, who, a few years later, would go on to play Pu Yi as an adult in The Last Emperor.
The age of the iceman in the film was 40,000 years. About seven years after this film was made and released, a real “iceman” was discovered in the Ötztal Alps in 1991. Named ‘Ötzi the Iceman’, the real-life iceman had pollen found in his stomach just like the iceman in this film.
This movie’s director Fred Schepisi has said of this film: “Iceman is a way of looking at us. There is wonder in looking at someone who is really us from the beginning… I thought this film could have been, as novelist Vladimir Nabokov observed, 'the precision of poetry and the intuition of science.” IMDb
Iceman
Title Card: "I, who was born to die, shall live. That the world of animals, and the world of men, may come together, I shall live." Inuit Legend
Right.
Shephard: …remember the mammoth?
Colleague: Yeah, the ones the Russians found.
Whitman: The Russians? When did they find a mammoth?
Shephard: In 1898, it was a perfect specimen of the mammoth mastodonis, 400 thousand years old.
Diane: Tissue was perfectly preserved, some of the cells still viable.
Shephard: So you found another mammoth?
Diane: Not exactly.
Well, then, what could it be?
Diane: Joe, this is Dima, a baby mammoth, one of thirty-nine recent finds. The Russians have been working on this for the last seven years. They take the cells out of the mammoth, they try to re-vivify them.
Whitman: What do you mean by re-vivify.
Colleague: Bring 'em back to life. They insert them into the egg of a living elephant.
Any updates here?
Whitman: What are your plans here? It looks like a pretty important find. How far can you go? Can you re-vivify the whole thing?
Diane: That’s not possible. When you freeze, crystals form, they destroy the cell walls. If we’re lucky, out of the whole carcass, we’ll find just a few cells intact.
Whitman: Can you put those in an egg?
Diane: We’re going to look for low level cell activity, the beginnings of life.
Whitman: Is that likely?
Diane: We don’t know 'til we try.
Next up: Holy fuck! It's alive!!
Shephard: What about me?
Diane: I thought you might want to get a look at it before we take it apart.
Shephard: Before what!?
Diane: Before we take it apart.
Shephard: Take it apart!?
That's the plan,
Diane: How old?
Shephard: Hard to tell, adult, twenty, thirty…
Diane: …years?
Shepard: Twenty thous…
Diane: Twenty thousand?!
Shepard: Twenty thousand, maybe forty thousand. You found a god damned Neanderthal!
Does he know that?
Shephard: What do you mean you’re going to take him apart?
Diane: We’re taping everything, you’ll have pictures…
Shephard: I don’t want pictures, I want him!
Diane: You’ll have him… most of him.
Shepard: What do you mean most of him?
Diane: Well, we’d like to keep all of him here, but we’re probably gonna have to send his brain to Cambridge, his spinal ganglia to Berkeley…
Shephard: Where does his heart go, San Francisco?
On the other hand, a script's a script.
Scientist: What’s that funny smell?
Whitman: Probably Shepherd.
Scientist: Cells metabolizing.
Diane: What? Holy shit, his cells are synthesizing D.N.A.!
He wondered if his own cells were.
Shephard: Dimethyl what?
Diane: Sulfoxide, DMSO, it’s a universal solvent. You put it on your finger, it zips right through your body, you taste it in your mouth. It tastes like garlic. It carries other molecules with it. A cryoprotectant. It’s a peptide, it’s glycoprotein, it’s like a… an antifreeze, it’s some substance that prevents crystallization. It’s why his cells are good, he was loaded with this stuff.
Shephard: Where did it come from?
Diane: Buttercups.
Shephard: Buttercups?
Diane: That Russian mammoth they found, his stomach was full of buttercups.
Again, however, is this “scientifically plausible”?
Diane: What does it look like, Maynard?
Maynard: It’s sorta like slow wave activity.
Diane: God damn it, that’s brain activity! Cold call!!
The scientists qua philosophers discuss the “implications” of this:
Now…just what does this mean to us? Well, maybe a Nobel prize. Maybe as big as Genentech. Maybe bigger. Bigger than gene splicing? Immortality. Aw, come on.Well, extended life, greatly extended. Do you know what we’re looking for? Cryoprotectant. Do you know why? You’re going to freeze everyone with cancer and bring them back when there’s a cure. Yes. And then what’re you going to do with them? I don’t think that’s the main issue, Shepherd. Yeah, they won’t know a living soul. The relatives wanna spend all their money. Maybe we have waves of freeze-dried old folks living in Miami Beach? Ya know, I mean, who are you kidding, there are too many people in the world right now. Death is Nature’s way of making room for someone else. Einstein, Bertram Russell. Einstein could have finished his theory. Mozart, Young, Stravinsky. Genghis Khan, Charlie Parker, Gandhi, Fatty Arbuckle. All right, so who’s to live? Everyone? And who’s to decide? The guys with the money and the power? Shephard, someday paramedics are going to carry cryo tanks…someone’s dying, you freeze him, you stop everything until you’ve got the blood, or the surgeons, or the spare parts you need. This is worth much more than any one man, even him.
New thread?
Shephard: He’s a man, not a specimen. A forty thousand year old man who can teach us about ourselves, tell us how we evolved. Now that is much more important than trying to figure-out how to preserve people. I mean, he’s alive, you’re forgetting that. You can’t take him apart, punch him full of holes and drain all his fluids.
Imagine all of this unfolding today...on social media!
Professor Chapman: Quite the little chatterbox, isn’t he?
Shephard: What’s he saying?
Professor Chapman: What would you ask if you were him?
Shepherd: Where am I? Who are you? What’s goin’ on?
Professor Chapman: I think that’s a fair assumption.
That and the stuff we discuss here?
Shephard: You’re alienating him, we’re losing contact. You’re making it impossible for me to deal with him. Because every time you POKE something into him, you take the LIFE right out of him.
Diane: Excuse me, Dr. Shepherd, Doctor Stanley Shepherd, wunderkind anthropologist. THE Stanley Shepherd, who did a year of field work with the Malasay Tribe, to study their natural state? Two months later they’re showing up in Pittsburgh Steeler tee-shirts and playing with butane lighters. That Stanley Shepherd?
Oh, yeah.
Charlie the Iceman brings a small dark object to Diane]
Diane: What’s that?
Shephard: An offering. He wants you to eat it.
Diane: I was afraid you’d say that.
Shephard: It’s kind of like popcorn, you get used to is.
[She eats it and then gags]
Diane: What was that?
Shephard: A beetle. What did it taste like?
Diane: A beetle. I think I’m going to throw up.
Shephard: Don’t! He’ll take it as a bad omen.
Who wouldn't?
Diane [after Charlie offers her the hose nozzle]: What is that?
Shephard: I think he made me an offer.
Diane: For what?
Shephard: For you.
Diane: Tell him it’s not enough!
Sex, let's call it.
Diane [to Shephard]: He wants to know where his children are.
What would you tell him?
Shephard [after meeting with the local aborigines]: That word with the chopper, it’s two words. Bieh-Tah is his word, Saeh-Kah’s the translation. But it’s not Saeh-Kah, it’s Seht-Nah, and that’s why he was so mad. There’s an Eskimo myth, close to one of his.
Diane: Wait a minute, Shepherd, you’re telling me that the helicopter…
Shephard: …is the Bird, the Messenger of the Gods, but also a trickster. It’s supposed to take you to heaven, but if you’ve done wrong, it takes you someplace else where you’re judged for your sins.
Diane: What sins?
Shephard: He let his people die.
The part about the Gods in other words.
Company man: What about Maynard? The Company’s got its lease, you medicos got a live body, and you… you’ve got your monkey.
Shephard: Yeah, well…
Company man: Shut-up!! If you think I’m gonna call it an industrial accident, you’re crazy.
Shephard: He’s not a monkey, he’s a human being…like us.
Dr. Singe: Well, not QUITE like us, we’ve undergone a few changes in forty thousand years.
Shephard: Not exactly for the better.
Dr. Singe: For once we agree on something.
Shephard: Well, what’s that?
Dr. Singe: Our opinion of modern civilization. But what I would like to know is how you expect him to survive in it, which he will have to do eventually.
Shephard: What, you think we’re going to set him out on the street tomorrow?
Dr Singe: What ARE you going to do? I mean, how are you going to protect him? Shepherd, what’s happened here is nothing compared to what’s going to happen to him out there.
So, basically, the ending -- the "dream walk" -- was only as it must be.
And In Charlie's head, for sure.
But then you can probably guess where a movie like this might choose to go: What might this prehistoric man teach us about ourselves instead?
As usual there is the inevitable clash of “interests”. The medical scientists want only to dissect him in order to probe him from the inside out. The anthropologist however wants to build a “vivarium” instead, in order to “study” him in his natural habitat – or as close to it as they can come.
And what a vivarium! I mean, what are the odds that they would have something like this just hanging around above the Arctic Circle?
Then there are the rest of the folks – they work for the company that found the iceman.
But then [just as inevitably] the new world is discovered by the iceman. Talk about cultural shock. What the hell is a Neanderthal man to make of a plastic hose that leads to a, well, you know what it leads to: the 20th century.
And before long there’s a body count.
As for “the science” behind all of this? Well, this was filmed in the mid-eighties. Who is to say how accurate it might have been then and how scientists might react to it today. Not me, in other words.
And when Shephard “frees” him to complete his “dream walk”: was that the Right Thing To Do?
And the iceman? He is played by John Lone, who, a few years later, would go on to play Pu Yi as an adult in The Last Emperor.
The age of the iceman in the film was 40,000 years. About seven years after this film was made and released, a real “iceman” was discovered in the Ötztal Alps in 1991. Named ‘Ötzi the Iceman’, the real-life iceman had pollen found in his stomach just like the iceman in this film.
This movie’s director Fred Schepisi has said of this film: “Iceman is a way of looking at us. There is wonder in looking at someone who is really us from the beginning… I thought this film could have been, as novelist Vladimir Nabokov observed, 'the precision of poetry and the intuition of science.” IMDb
Iceman
Title Card: "I, who was born to die, shall live. That the world of animals, and the world of men, may come together, I shall live." Inuit Legend
Right.
Shephard: …remember the mammoth?
Colleague: Yeah, the ones the Russians found.
Whitman: The Russians? When did they find a mammoth?
Shephard: In 1898, it was a perfect specimen of the mammoth mastodonis, 400 thousand years old.
Diane: Tissue was perfectly preserved, some of the cells still viable.
Shephard: So you found another mammoth?
Diane: Not exactly.
Well, then, what could it be?
Diane: Joe, this is Dima, a baby mammoth, one of thirty-nine recent finds. The Russians have been working on this for the last seven years. They take the cells out of the mammoth, they try to re-vivify them.
Whitman: What do you mean by re-vivify.
Colleague: Bring 'em back to life. They insert them into the egg of a living elephant.
Any updates here?
Whitman: What are your plans here? It looks like a pretty important find. How far can you go? Can you re-vivify the whole thing?
Diane: That’s not possible. When you freeze, crystals form, they destroy the cell walls. If we’re lucky, out of the whole carcass, we’ll find just a few cells intact.
Whitman: Can you put those in an egg?
Diane: We’re going to look for low level cell activity, the beginnings of life.
Whitman: Is that likely?
Diane: We don’t know 'til we try.
Next up: Holy fuck! It's alive!!
Shephard: What about me?
Diane: I thought you might want to get a look at it before we take it apart.
Shephard: Before what!?
Diane: Before we take it apart.
Shephard: Take it apart!?
That's the plan,
Diane: How old?
Shephard: Hard to tell, adult, twenty, thirty…
Diane: …years?
Shepard: Twenty thous…
Diane: Twenty thousand?!
Shepard: Twenty thousand, maybe forty thousand. You found a god damned Neanderthal!
Does he know that?
Shephard: What do you mean you’re going to take him apart?
Diane: We’re taping everything, you’ll have pictures…
Shephard: I don’t want pictures, I want him!
Diane: You’ll have him… most of him.
Shepard: What do you mean most of him?
Diane: Well, we’d like to keep all of him here, but we’re probably gonna have to send his brain to Cambridge, his spinal ganglia to Berkeley…
Shephard: Where does his heart go, San Francisco?
On the other hand, a script's a script.
Scientist: What’s that funny smell?
Whitman: Probably Shepherd.
Scientist: Cells metabolizing.
Diane: What? Holy shit, his cells are synthesizing D.N.A.!
He wondered if his own cells were.
Shephard: Dimethyl what?
Diane: Sulfoxide, DMSO, it’s a universal solvent. You put it on your finger, it zips right through your body, you taste it in your mouth. It tastes like garlic. It carries other molecules with it. A cryoprotectant. It’s a peptide, it’s glycoprotein, it’s like a… an antifreeze, it’s some substance that prevents crystallization. It’s why his cells are good, he was loaded with this stuff.
Shephard: Where did it come from?
Diane: Buttercups.
Shephard: Buttercups?
Diane: That Russian mammoth they found, his stomach was full of buttercups.
Again, however, is this “scientifically plausible”?
Diane: What does it look like, Maynard?
Maynard: It’s sorta like slow wave activity.
Diane: God damn it, that’s brain activity! Cold call!!
The scientists qua philosophers discuss the “implications” of this:
Now…just what does this mean to us? Well, maybe a Nobel prize. Maybe as big as Genentech. Maybe bigger. Bigger than gene splicing? Immortality. Aw, come on.Well, extended life, greatly extended. Do you know what we’re looking for? Cryoprotectant. Do you know why? You’re going to freeze everyone with cancer and bring them back when there’s a cure. Yes. And then what’re you going to do with them? I don’t think that’s the main issue, Shepherd. Yeah, they won’t know a living soul. The relatives wanna spend all their money. Maybe we have waves of freeze-dried old folks living in Miami Beach? Ya know, I mean, who are you kidding, there are too many people in the world right now. Death is Nature’s way of making room for someone else. Einstein, Bertram Russell. Einstein could have finished his theory. Mozart, Young, Stravinsky. Genghis Khan, Charlie Parker, Gandhi, Fatty Arbuckle. All right, so who’s to live? Everyone? And who’s to decide? The guys with the money and the power? Shephard, someday paramedics are going to carry cryo tanks…someone’s dying, you freeze him, you stop everything until you’ve got the blood, or the surgeons, or the spare parts you need. This is worth much more than any one man, even him.
New thread?
Shephard: He’s a man, not a specimen. A forty thousand year old man who can teach us about ourselves, tell us how we evolved. Now that is much more important than trying to figure-out how to preserve people. I mean, he’s alive, you’re forgetting that. You can’t take him apart, punch him full of holes and drain all his fluids.
Imagine all of this unfolding today...on social media!
Professor Chapman: Quite the little chatterbox, isn’t he?
Shephard: What’s he saying?
Professor Chapman: What would you ask if you were him?
Shepherd: Where am I? Who are you? What’s goin’ on?
Professor Chapman: I think that’s a fair assumption.
That and the stuff we discuss here?
Shephard: You’re alienating him, we’re losing contact. You’re making it impossible for me to deal with him. Because every time you POKE something into him, you take the LIFE right out of him.
Diane: Excuse me, Dr. Shepherd, Doctor Stanley Shepherd, wunderkind anthropologist. THE Stanley Shepherd, who did a year of field work with the Malasay Tribe, to study their natural state? Two months later they’re showing up in Pittsburgh Steeler tee-shirts and playing with butane lighters. That Stanley Shepherd?
Oh, yeah.
Charlie the Iceman brings a small dark object to Diane]
Diane: What’s that?
Shephard: An offering. He wants you to eat it.
Diane: I was afraid you’d say that.
Shephard: It’s kind of like popcorn, you get used to is.
[She eats it and then gags]
Diane: What was that?
Shephard: A beetle. What did it taste like?
Diane: A beetle. I think I’m going to throw up.
Shephard: Don’t! He’ll take it as a bad omen.
Who wouldn't?
Diane [after Charlie offers her the hose nozzle]: What is that?
Shephard: I think he made me an offer.
Diane: For what?
Shephard: For you.
Diane: Tell him it’s not enough!
Sex, let's call it.
Diane [to Shephard]: He wants to know where his children are.
What would you tell him?
Shephard [after meeting with the local aborigines]: That word with the chopper, it’s two words. Bieh-Tah is his word, Saeh-Kah’s the translation. But it’s not Saeh-Kah, it’s Seht-Nah, and that’s why he was so mad. There’s an Eskimo myth, close to one of his.
Diane: Wait a minute, Shepherd, you’re telling me that the helicopter…
Shephard: …is the Bird, the Messenger of the Gods, but also a trickster. It’s supposed to take you to heaven, but if you’ve done wrong, it takes you someplace else where you’re judged for your sins.
Diane: What sins?
Shephard: He let his people die.
The part about the Gods in other words.
Company man: What about Maynard? The Company’s got its lease, you medicos got a live body, and you… you’ve got your monkey.
Shephard: Yeah, well…
Company man: Shut-up!! If you think I’m gonna call it an industrial accident, you’re crazy.
Shephard: He’s not a monkey, he’s a human being…like us.
Dr. Singe: Well, not QUITE like us, we’ve undergone a few changes in forty thousand years.
Shephard: Not exactly for the better.
Dr. Singe: For once we agree on something.
Shephard: Well, what’s that?
Dr. Singe: Our opinion of modern civilization. But what I would like to know is how you expect him to survive in it, which he will have to do eventually.
Shephard: What, you think we’re going to set him out on the street tomorrow?
Dr Singe: What ARE you going to do? I mean, how are you going to protect him? Shepherd, what’s happened here is nothing compared to what’s going to happen to him out there.
So, basically, the ending -- the "dream walk" -- was only as it must be.
And In Charlie's head, for sure.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Truly, a “situation comedy”. And here the situation revolves around bigmy. And what could possibly be funnier than that?
Well, the first thing you have to do is turn it into a complete farce. And it is. But that still didn’t stop a lot of moral majority types [folks that comprise the “heartland” of America] from being, well, appalled: Director Blake Edwards once said of this movie: “The film was funny but I think middle America resented the fact that this guy was a bigamist.”
But you have to understand this: he sort of just stumbled into being one. It wasn’t like he intended to embrace the philosophy of plural marriage. He just wanted a child his wife wasn’t ready for and then bumped into a woman who very much wanted to raise children with him. But before he could divorce Micki [and after he had proposed marriage to Maude], Micki changed her mind. So his intentions here revolved entirely around not hurting either one.
Bottom line: this guy really wanted to be a dad.
My own reaction surprised me. Instead of just going along for the gags, I found myself thinking seriously [sort of] about how any one of us might “in reality” find ourselves “in love” with two [or more] different people. You know, at the same time.
Why not allow men and women to explore plural marriages – legally. Sure, there are risks involved. But look at the current state of marriage – what we opt for now.
Look for the “America Hey!” segments. That and the part where both wives are in the hospital giving birth. At the same time in other words. A complete farce to be sure but still really funny.
Dudley Moore recommended Amy Irving for the part of Maude and got her. According to Barbra Paskin’s biography “Dudley Moore: The Melancholy Clown” (2000), Moore “…was a staunch admirer of the beautiful actress with the renaissance face, and had she not been married at the time to Steven Spielberg…he would have pursued her into a romance”.
The actors that play Micki’s parents are in reality Amy Irving’s mother and stepfather.
Many of the professional wrestling characters are portrayed by real professional wrestlers, some of whom appear in the credits under their real names rather than their wrestling monikers. IMDb
Micki and Maude
Micki: We beat him 4 to 1 in Orange County, 4 to 1!
Rob: That’s great.
Micki: Great? It’s wonderful!
Rob: Did you ever talk to his kids?
Micki: Not really.
Rob: They’re amazing. They figured out what happens when you die. You go to Heaven in a…
Micki: You know what won it for us? It was the…
I hear that.
Micki: The governor you see is really grateful to me for everything I’ve done for him on his campaign and, well, it’s really a prestigious appointment. Rob, the governor wants to appoint me to the Superior Court. Now, I know this means postponing our family for just a little while longer.
Rob: Postpone? But you said as soon as the election is over…
Micki: But I had no idea he would win!
Good point?
Rob: Come on, Micki, just one child. A small one.
See where it’s going? She is obsessed with her career and all he wants to do is to raise a few babies. But she has been “postponing” that part for over 7 years now. And then he meets Maude.
Maude: So what happened to the date with your wife?
Rob: Oh, it got called off.
To say the least.
Maude: The most important influence in my life in my daddy. He cares for me very deeply. He helped to put me through Julliard. It would kill him if he knew what was about to happen.
Rob: What’s about to happen?
A little humping and pumping.
Leo: Well, are you going to see her again?
Rob: No, of course not.
Leo: That bad? What was she, a TV groupie? A hooker?
Rob: No, she’s a cellist. A very funny, pretty, interesting, intelligent, fabulous, vivacious cellist.
Leo: Oh yeah, well, you’d better not see her again.
Let alone marry her.
Rob [on phone]: Listen, Maude, I’ve done something terrible. I think you’re wonderful, really wonderful, but I love my wife. Really love her. You know? And I think we better not see each other again.
Maude: Yeah, you know I’ve been thinking the same thing.
Rob: I just can’t handle complicated situations.
Maude: Me neither.
Rob: Well, it’s been great knowing you.
Maude: Bye.
Rob: Goodbye.
[he hangs up and phone and turns to Leo]
Rob: I’m no good at juggling people. I can’t handle complications. I hate lying and deceit and tricking women. It’s just out of the question!
[meanwhile he has redialed Maude’s number]
Rob: When can I see you again?
Maude: I’m home.
With Steven?
Rob [looking up at the sky at an outdoor concert]: God, isn’t the sky incredible? Look at those stars.
Maude: Do you know what else is really incredible?
Rob: What?
Maude: I’m pregnant.
That makes two of them, Rob.
Leo: You’ve got the punch, now you need the pillow.
Rob: What do you mean?
Leo: You’re gonna knock her out with this news, you need a pillow for her to land on.
Rob: Yeah, I suppose…
Leo: “Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you.”
Rob: Yeah.
Leo: Uhm… “These years with you, I’ve seen you blossom from a young girl into a mature woman.”
Rob: No, no, no. I mean, she was always a mature woman, even at 25.
Leo: All right, you like the part “Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you”, like that, right?
Rob: Look, Leo. It’s all right, but it’s not exp…
Leo Well, “Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you…”
Rob: “And… and… I’m…”
Leo: “… and I’ve knocked up a girl, I’m gonna marry and I want a divorce.”
Rob: Great, where’s the pillow?
Leo: “We’d like to name the baby after you.”
No, not really. As I recall.
Rob: The thing is, I don’t want to divorce, Micki, I just want to marry Maude.
Leo: You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Rob: I’ve been with her for ten years. I can’t give them up just like that. And it’s have your cake and eat it too.
Leo: What?
Rob: To have your cake, anyone can do. To eat it and still have some left, that’s the trick.
Leo: Eat your cake, have your cake, who cares? You’re about to get a plate of sauteed brains thrown into your face, your entire career is the toilet, and you’re correcting my grammar?!!.
Someone run this by Phil8659. And Plato.
Micki: I’ve got something pretty big to tell you too…
Rob: Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you…
Micki: I love you, too, and I’m pregnant! I’m so pregnant the doctor thinks I am going to have twins!
Uh, oh…and then some.
Leo: Well, are you going to tell them?
Rob: Of course I’m going to tell them. But I can’t tell Micki for months. She might lose the baby in the shock.
Leo: Then you have to tell Maude.
Rob: I can’t tell Maude. It would break her heart.
Leo: Well, if you’re really worried about breaking her heart, I wonder how she is going to feel when her father kills you.
Unless she asks him to?
Maid of Honor [after catching the bouquet at Rob and Maude’s wedding]: I guess I’m next.
Leo: Oh, I don’t think he’s got the time.
And he means it.
Leo: Let me ask you a question. You have two wives. You’re about to have two kids. Don’t you see something wrong in that?
Rob: I do. It shouldn’t be against the law. Leo, I love Micki. I love Maude. They want children. I want children. We’re all getting what we want.
Leo: What is this, 1967? You don’t think about the consequences? What happens when they find out?
Rob [glumly]: I don’t know.
[pause]
Rob: All I know is that this is right. I love them. Don’t you get it?
Again, he did sort of just stumble into all of this.
Leo: It’s for you.
Rob [on the phone with the hospital]: What? Which Mrs. Salinger? No, no, I mean there’s only one Mrs. Salinger, but you see my mother is having a baby, too. Is she a lawyer or a cellist?
Thinking on your feet let's call it.
Maude: You mean there’s another Mrs. Salinger in the hospital having a baby?
After all, what are the odds?
Micki [to her parents]: I’m going to take him to the cleaners for the rest of his life.
Instead...
Maude [to her father]: Daddy, there’s something I’ve got to tell you.
Meet Dad: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=4 ... 1&dpr=1.21
Leo: All things considered you’re lucky he didn’t kill you.
Rob: All things considered I wish he had.
Leo: Have your wives informed the police?
Rob: Not yet. They want to talk to me first.
The ultimatums...
Micki: We have come to certain decisions, Rob. And if you don’t abide by them we’ll call the district attorney…
Maude: …and have you arrested.
Rob: I swear, I never intended to…
Micki: It doesn’t make any difference what you intended. It’s the fact that you have been deceitful.
Maude: And hurtful.
Micki: And criminal.
Maude: And we don’t ever want to see you again.
Micki: We would like our divorces as quickly as possible. And, uh, you’re never to see the children again.
Rob [devastated]: Never?
Maude: Never.
On the other hand, this being a screwball comedy never say never.
Leo: You are a lunatic!
Rob: You’re right.
Leo: This will never work.
Rob: I know.
Leo: You have to tell them.
Rob: I will! Leo, I swear to you, I will. I just have to pick the right moment…
How about never? Or, sure, every single day.
Well, the first thing you have to do is turn it into a complete farce. And it is. But that still didn’t stop a lot of moral majority types [folks that comprise the “heartland” of America] from being, well, appalled: Director Blake Edwards once said of this movie: “The film was funny but I think middle America resented the fact that this guy was a bigamist.”
But you have to understand this: he sort of just stumbled into being one. It wasn’t like he intended to embrace the philosophy of plural marriage. He just wanted a child his wife wasn’t ready for and then bumped into a woman who very much wanted to raise children with him. But before he could divorce Micki [and after he had proposed marriage to Maude], Micki changed her mind. So his intentions here revolved entirely around not hurting either one.
Bottom line: this guy really wanted to be a dad.
My own reaction surprised me. Instead of just going along for the gags, I found myself thinking seriously [sort of] about how any one of us might “in reality” find ourselves “in love” with two [or more] different people. You know, at the same time.
Why not allow men and women to explore plural marriages – legally. Sure, there are risks involved. But look at the current state of marriage – what we opt for now.
Look for the “America Hey!” segments. That and the part where both wives are in the hospital giving birth. At the same time in other words. A complete farce to be sure but still really funny.
Dudley Moore recommended Amy Irving for the part of Maude and got her. According to Barbra Paskin’s biography “Dudley Moore: The Melancholy Clown” (2000), Moore “…was a staunch admirer of the beautiful actress with the renaissance face, and had she not been married at the time to Steven Spielberg…he would have pursued her into a romance”.
The actors that play Micki’s parents are in reality Amy Irving’s mother and stepfather.
Many of the professional wrestling characters are portrayed by real professional wrestlers, some of whom appear in the credits under their real names rather than their wrestling monikers. IMDb
Micki and Maude
Micki: We beat him 4 to 1 in Orange County, 4 to 1!
Rob: That’s great.
Micki: Great? It’s wonderful!
Rob: Did you ever talk to his kids?
Micki: Not really.
Rob: They’re amazing. They figured out what happens when you die. You go to Heaven in a…
Micki: You know what won it for us? It was the…
I hear that.
Micki: The governor you see is really grateful to me for everything I’ve done for him on his campaign and, well, it’s really a prestigious appointment. Rob, the governor wants to appoint me to the Superior Court. Now, I know this means postponing our family for just a little while longer.
Rob: Postpone? But you said as soon as the election is over…
Micki: But I had no idea he would win!
Good point?
Rob: Come on, Micki, just one child. A small one.
See where it’s going? She is obsessed with her career and all he wants to do is to raise a few babies. But she has been “postponing” that part for over 7 years now. And then he meets Maude.
Maude: So what happened to the date with your wife?
Rob: Oh, it got called off.
To say the least.
Maude: The most important influence in my life in my daddy. He cares for me very deeply. He helped to put me through Julliard. It would kill him if he knew what was about to happen.
Rob: What’s about to happen?
A little humping and pumping.
Leo: Well, are you going to see her again?
Rob: No, of course not.
Leo: That bad? What was she, a TV groupie? A hooker?
Rob: No, she’s a cellist. A very funny, pretty, interesting, intelligent, fabulous, vivacious cellist.
Leo: Oh yeah, well, you’d better not see her again.
Let alone marry her.
Rob [on phone]: Listen, Maude, I’ve done something terrible. I think you’re wonderful, really wonderful, but I love my wife. Really love her. You know? And I think we better not see each other again.
Maude: Yeah, you know I’ve been thinking the same thing.
Rob: I just can’t handle complicated situations.
Maude: Me neither.
Rob: Well, it’s been great knowing you.
Maude: Bye.
Rob: Goodbye.
[he hangs up and phone and turns to Leo]
Rob: I’m no good at juggling people. I can’t handle complications. I hate lying and deceit and tricking women. It’s just out of the question!
[meanwhile he has redialed Maude’s number]
Rob: When can I see you again?
Maude: I’m home.
With Steven?
Rob [looking up at the sky at an outdoor concert]: God, isn’t the sky incredible? Look at those stars.
Maude: Do you know what else is really incredible?
Rob: What?
Maude: I’m pregnant.
That makes two of them, Rob.
Leo: You’ve got the punch, now you need the pillow.
Rob: What do you mean?
Leo: You’re gonna knock her out with this news, you need a pillow for her to land on.
Rob: Yeah, I suppose…
Leo: “Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you.”
Rob: Yeah.
Leo: Uhm… “These years with you, I’ve seen you blossom from a young girl into a mature woman.”
Rob: No, no, no. I mean, she was always a mature woman, even at 25.
Leo: All right, you like the part “Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you”, like that, right?
Rob: Look, Leo. It’s all right, but it’s not exp…
Leo Well, “Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you…”
Rob: “And… and… I’m…”
Leo: “… and I’ve knocked up a girl, I’m gonna marry and I want a divorce.”
Rob: Great, where’s the pillow?
Leo: “We’d like to name the baby after you.”
No, not really. As I recall.
Rob: The thing is, I don’t want to divorce, Micki, I just want to marry Maude.
Leo: You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Rob: I’ve been with her for ten years. I can’t give them up just like that. And it’s have your cake and eat it too.
Leo: What?
Rob: To have your cake, anyone can do. To eat it and still have some left, that’s the trick.
Leo: Eat your cake, have your cake, who cares? You’re about to get a plate of sauteed brains thrown into your face, your entire career is the toilet, and you’re correcting my grammar?!!.
Someone run this by Phil8659. And Plato.
Micki: I’ve got something pretty big to tell you too…
Rob: Micki, I love you. I’ll always love you…
Micki: I love you, too, and I’m pregnant! I’m so pregnant the doctor thinks I am going to have twins!
Uh, oh…and then some.
Leo: Well, are you going to tell them?
Rob: Of course I’m going to tell them. But I can’t tell Micki for months. She might lose the baby in the shock.
Leo: Then you have to tell Maude.
Rob: I can’t tell Maude. It would break her heart.
Leo: Well, if you’re really worried about breaking her heart, I wonder how she is going to feel when her father kills you.
Unless she asks him to?
Maid of Honor [after catching the bouquet at Rob and Maude’s wedding]: I guess I’m next.
Leo: Oh, I don’t think he’s got the time.
And he means it.
Leo: Let me ask you a question. You have two wives. You’re about to have two kids. Don’t you see something wrong in that?
Rob: I do. It shouldn’t be against the law. Leo, I love Micki. I love Maude. They want children. I want children. We’re all getting what we want.
Leo: What is this, 1967? You don’t think about the consequences? What happens when they find out?
Rob [glumly]: I don’t know.
[pause]
Rob: All I know is that this is right. I love them. Don’t you get it?
Again, he did sort of just stumble into all of this.
Leo: It’s for you.
Rob [on the phone with the hospital]: What? Which Mrs. Salinger? No, no, I mean there’s only one Mrs. Salinger, but you see my mother is having a baby, too. Is she a lawyer or a cellist?
Thinking on your feet let's call it.
Maude: You mean there’s another Mrs. Salinger in the hospital having a baby?
After all, what are the odds?
Micki [to her parents]: I’m going to take him to the cleaners for the rest of his life.
Instead...
Maude [to her father]: Daddy, there’s something I’ve got to tell you.
Meet Dad: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=4 ... 1&dpr=1.21
Leo: All things considered you’re lucky he didn’t kill you.
Rob: All things considered I wish he had.
Leo: Have your wives informed the police?
Rob: Not yet. They want to talk to me first.
The ultimatums...
Micki: We have come to certain decisions, Rob. And if you don’t abide by them we’ll call the district attorney…
Maude: …and have you arrested.
Rob: I swear, I never intended to…
Micki: It doesn’t make any difference what you intended. It’s the fact that you have been deceitful.
Maude: And hurtful.
Micki: And criminal.
Maude: And we don’t ever want to see you again.
Micki: We would like our divorces as quickly as possible. And, uh, you’re never to see the children again.
Rob [devastated]: Never?
Maude: Never.
On the other hand, this being a screwball comedy never say never.
Leo: You are a lunatic!
Rob: You’re right.
Leo: This will never work.
Rob: I know.
Leo: You have to tell them.
Rob: I will! Leo, I swear to you, I will. I just have to pick the right moment…
How about never? Or, sure, every single day.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Suicide
“If wild my breast and sore my pride,
I bask in dreams of suicide,
If cool my heart and high my head
I think 'How lucky are the dead'.” Dorothy Parker
Luckier than who?
“No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun — for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your old age. Relax — This won't hurt”. Hunter S. Thompson
Can you say that? Or, perhaps, more to the point, one day, will you?
“Depression isn't a war you win. It's a battle you fight every day. You never stop, never get to rest. It's one bloody fray after another.” Shaun David Hutchinson
Darkness visible some call it.
“By four o'clock, I've discounted suicide in favor of killing everyone else in the entire world instead.” Warren Ellis
Good for him!
“There are so many things that I want so badly to tell you but I just can't.” Nina LaCour
Let's explain that.
“One of the first signs of the beginning of understanding is the wish to die. This life appears unbearable, another unattainable. One is no longer ashamed of wanting to die; one asks to be moved from the old cell, which one hates, to a new one, which one will only in time come to hate. In this there is also a residue of belief that during the move the master will chance to come along the corridor, look at the prisoner and say: 'This man is not to be locked up again, He is to come with me'.” Franz Kafka
Fat chance. I mean, to say the least, right?
“If wild my breast and sore my pride,
I bask in dreams of suicide,
If cool my heart and high my head
I think 'How lucky are the dead'.” Dorothy Parker
Luckier than who?
“No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun — for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your old age. Relax — This won't hurt”. Hunter S. Thompson
Can you say that? Or, perhaps, more to the point, one day, will you?
“Depression isn't a war you win. It's a battle you fight every day. You never stop, never get to rest. It's one bloody fray after another.” Shaun David Hutchinson
Darkness visible some call it.
“By four o'clock, I've discounted suicide in favor of killing everyone else in the entire world instead.” Warren Ellis
Good for him!
“There are so many things that I want so badly to tell you but I just can't.” Nina LaCour
Let's explain that.
“One of the first signs of the beginning of understanding is the wish to die. This life appears unbearable, another unattainable. One is no longer ashamed of wanting to die; one asks to be moved from the old cell, which one hates, to a new one, which one will only in time come to hate. In this there is also a residue of belief that during the move the master will chance to come along the corridor, look at the prisoner and say: 'This man is not to be locked up again, He is to come with me'.” Franz Kafka
Fat chance. I mean, to say the least, right?