Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

[Martin Peter Clarke]

My action is not about who is right and who is wrong.

Sorry Belinda, I don't get the connection?

And I was being brutal about moral claims. Immigration is the biggest issue in the first world, warping politics worse than taxation. Until our population becomes totally unmanageably infirm, in need of care, much worse than now, it cannot happen. And even then. The population would have to crash. And even then.

The connection is I wrote to my Labour MP and offered accommodation in my house to a family of three. My personal comfort is a small thing compared with a baby starving to death. During the last war a Polish tank regiment descended upon the small town where we lived and people there accommodated officers, men, and convoys of tanks one way and another.

Old people like me will just have to jolly well die when we become insupportable either to ourselves or to others. I see no other way either practically or morally. There are even moral precedents for voluntary suicide. The will to live generally is far stronger in the mother of a baby than it ever can be in an old person.

The first para demonstrates our hive switch. We're nowhere near that in the developed world. There is no existential threat. And I feel the same as in the second para.

[Belinda]

Sorry Belinda, I don't get the connection?

And I was being brutal about moral claims. Immigration is the biggest issue in the first world, warping politics worse than taxation. Until our population becomes totally unmanageably infirm, in need of care, much worse than now, it cannot happen. And even then. The population would have to crash. And even then.

The connection is I wrote to my Labour MP and offered accommodation in my house to a family of three. My personal comfort is a small thing compared with a baby starving to death. During the last war a Polish tank regiment descended upon the small town where we lived and people there accommodated officers, men, and convoys of tanks one way and another.

Old people like me will just have to jolly well die when we become insupportable either to ourselves or to others. I see no other way either practically or morally. There are even moral precedents for voluntary suicide. The will to live generally is far stronger in the mother of a baby than it ever can be in an old person.

The first para demonstrates our hive switch. We're nowhere near that in the developed world. There is no existential threat. And I feel the same as in the second para.

In the developed world of today if the whole Knesset came to my door starving and cold, I'd admit them and feed them.

I thought you were saying the great existential threat is immigration alongside an ageing native population. I'd really like you to make this clear if you would.

"Hive switch"? Do you mean that existential economic circumstances force societies to be political reactionaries? But we aren't bees we have spiritual needs we need to look ahead to better times. The present day existential threat which is absolutely universal is climate change.

Did you mean that you agree with my second paragraph that endorses voluntary suicide for social as well as personal reasons?

I am just going outside, and I may be some time" was spoken by Captain Lawrence Oates, a member of Robert Falcon Scott's ill-fated Antarctic expedition in 1912. He used these words as a way of saying goodbye to his fellow explorers before walking out of the tent into a blizzard to die.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

The connection is I wrote to my Labour MP and offered accommodation in my house to a family of three. My personal comfort is a small thing compared with a baby starving to death. During the last war a Polish tank regiment descended upon the small town where we lived and people there accommodated officers, men, and convoys of tanks one way and another.

Old people like me will just have to jolly well die when we become insupportable either to ourselves or to others. I see no other way either practically or morally. There are even moral precedents for voluntary suicide. The will to live generally is far stronger in the mother of a baby than it ever can be in an old person.

The first para demonstrates our hive switch. We're nowhere near that in the developed world. There is no existential threat. And I feel the same as in the second para.

In the developed world of today if the whole Knesset came to my door starving and cold, I'd admit them and feed them.

I thought you were saying the great existential threat is immigration alongside an ageing native population. I'd really like you to make this clear if you would.

"Hive switch"? Do you mean that existential economic circumstances force societies to be political reactionaries? But we aren't bees we have spiritual needs we need to look ahead to better times. The present day existential threat which is absolutely universal is climate change.

Did you mean that you agree with my second paragraph that endorses voluntary suicide for social as well as personal reasons?

I am just going outside, and I may be some time" was spoken by Captain Lawrence Oates, a member of Robert Falcon Scott's ill-fated Antarctic expedition in 1912. He used these words as a way of saying goodbye to his fellow explorers before walking out of the tent into a blizzard to die.

A nice impulse. I'd call the BBC and the cops. 120 people! They wouldn't fit on my drive. My favourite Telegraph crossword clue was 'The Chosen People's chosen people'. I'd take them down Narborough Road and distribute them in the cafe/restaurants, waving my Platinum credit card.

Cheaper than my daughter's 40th.

Aye, the existential threat that will never be realised, the aging out of the population and economic collapse. Denmark just raised the retirement age to 70. Immigration is the biggest political issue in the developed world, bar none. It's not an existential threat in the slightest, the opposite.

And no, the hive switch is when we become eusocial under existential threat.

And aye, I do not want to end my days rotting in confusion in some under-resourced 'care' home. I know where a flood meadow of hemlock water dropwort grows. You die smiling.

[Belinda]

The first para demonstrates our hive switch. We're nowhere near that in the developed world. There is no existential threat. And I feel the same as in the second para.

In the developed world of today if the whole Knesset came to my door starving and cold, I'd admit them and feed them.

I thought you were saying the great existential threat is immigration alongside an ageing native population. I'd really like you to make this clear if you would.

"Hive switch"? Do you mean that existential economic circumstances force societies to be political reactionaries? But we aren't bees we have spiritual needs we need to look ahead to better times. The present day existential threat which is absolutely universal is climate change.

Did you mean that you agree with my second paragraph that endorses voluntary suicide for social as well as personal reasons?

I am just going outside, and I may be some time" was spoken by Captain Lawrence Oates, a member of Robert Falcon Scott's ill-fated Antarctic expedition in 1912. He used these words as a way of saying goodbye to his fellow explorers before walking out of the tent into a blizzard to die.

A nice impulse. I'd call the BBC and the cops. 120 people! They wouldn't fit on my drive. My favourite Telegraph crossword clue was 'The Chosen People's chosen people'. I'd take them down Narborough Road and distribute them in the cafe/restaurants, waving my Platinum credit card.

Cheaper than my daughter's 40th.

Aye, the existential threat that will never be realised, the aging out of the population and economic collapse. Denmark just raised the retirement age to 70. Immigration is the biggest political issue in the developed world, bar none. It's not an existential threat in the slightest, the opposite.

And aye, I do not want to end my days rotting in confusion in some under-resourced 'care' home. I know where a flood meadow of hemlock water dropwort grows. You die smiling.

Hemlock for self delivery is poetic Like I know a bank where the wild thyme blows .Socrates was brave. He owed a cock to Asclepius ,he was to be cured of life, and death does heal one from life. But painless? I don't think so. Better than stoning or crucifixion. For self delivery, better buy the book from Exit.
Self delivery is not easy that's why we need doctor assisted dying.

I don't understand how a Telegraph reader, like you said you did the Telegraph crossword , approves of immigration. It may be the case that working class immigrants from Northern Europe have less of an ego problem than working class Nigerians.

As for looking after anyone in an emergency including war I take my moral lead from the Red Cross /Red Crescent.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

In the developed world of today if the whole Knesset came to my door starving and cold, I'd admit them and feed them.

I thought you were saying the great existential threat is immigration alongside an ageing native population. I'd really like you to make this clear if you would.

"Hive switch"? Do you mean that existential economic circumstances force societies to be political reactionaries? But we aren't bees we have spiritual needs we need to look ahead to better times. The present day existential threat which is absolutely universal is climate change.

Did you mean that you agree with my second paragraph that endorses voluntary suicide for social as well as personal reasons?

A nice impulse. I'd call the BBC and the cops. 120 people! They wouldn't fit on my drive. My favourite Telegraph crossword clue was 'The Chosen People's chosen people'. I'd take them down Narborough Road and distribute them in the cafe/restaurants, waving my Platinum credit card.

Cheaper than my daughter's 40th.

Aye, the existential threat that will never be realised, the aging out of the population and economic collapse. Denmark just raised the retirement age to 70. Immigration is the biggest political issue in the developed world, bar none. It's not an existential threat in the slightest, the opposite.

And aye, I do not want to end my days rotting in confusion in some under-resourced 'care' home. I know where a flood meadow of hemlock water dropwort grows. You die smiling.

Hemlock for self delivery is poetic Like I know a bank where the wild thyme blows .Socrates was brave. He owed a cock to Asclepius ,he was to be cured of life, and death does heal one from life. But painless? I don't think so. Better than stoning or crucifixion. For self delivery, better buy the book from Exit.
Self delivery is not easy that's why we need doctor assisted dying.

I don't understand how a Telegraph reader, like you said you did the Telegraph crossword , approves of immigration. It may be the case that working class immigrants from Northern Europe have less of an ego problem than working class Nigerians.

As for looking after anyone in an emergency including war I take my moral lead from the Red Cross /Red Crescent.

I haven't read a newspaper for 30 years. And I've been moving increasingly to the radical left all of that time. I've worked with our own 'wounded' since 2009. The best you can do is be polite, serve them a meal as honoured guests. They cannot be actually helped, apart from 1 in a 100. Trying to help the helplessly unhelpable is soul destroying.

[Belinda]

A nice impulse. I'd call the BBC and the cops. 120 people! They wouldn't fit on my drive. My favourite Telegraph crossword clue was 'The Chosen People's chosen people'. I'd take them down Narborough Road and distribute them in the cafe/restaurants, waving my Platinum credit card.

Cheaper than my daughter's 40th.

Aye, the existential threat that will never be realised, the aging out of the population and economic collapse. Denmark just raised the retirement age to 70. Immigration is the biggest political issue in the developed world, bar none. It's not an existential threat in the slightest, the opposite.

And aye, I do not want to end my days rotting in confusion in some under-resourced 'care' home. I know where a flood meadow of hemlock water dropwort grows. You die smiling.

Hemlock for self delivery is poetic Like I know a bank where the wild thyme blows .Socrates was brave. He owed a cock to Asclepius ,he was to be cured of life, and death does heal one from life. But painless? I don't think so. Better than stoning or crucifixion. For self delivery, better buy the book from Exit.
Self delivery is not easy that's why we need doctor assisted dying.

I don't understand how a Telegraph reader, like you said you did the Telegraph crossword , approves of immigration. It may be the case that working class immigrants from Northern Europe have less of an ego problem than working class Nigerians.

As for looking after anyone in an emergency including war I take my moral lead from the Red Cross /Red Crescent.

I haven't read a newspaper for 30 years. And I've been moving increasingly to the radical left all of that time. I've worked with our own 'wounded' since 2009. The best you can do is be polite, serve them a meal as honoured guests. They cannot be actually helped, apart from 1 in a 100. Trying to help the helplessly unhelpable is soul destroying.

I guess what you have been working at since 2009, and I hope it's not presumptuous to thank you.
I understand the Red Cross/Red Crescent is in the business of immediate practical aid including of course reassurance. I imagine that a mother and her starving baby have a universal and overwhelming need that no mother would refuse help with.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Hemlock for self delivery is poetic Like I know a bank where the wild thyme blows .Socrates was brave. He owed a cock to Asclepius ,he was to be cured of life, and death does heal one from life. But painless? I don't think so. Better than stoning or crucifixion. For self delivery, better buy the book from Exit.
Self delivery is not easy that's why we need doctor assisted dying.

I don't understand how a Telegraph reader, like you said you did the Telegraph crossword , approves of immigration. It may be the case that working class immigrants from Northern Europe have less of an ego problem than working class Nigerians.

As for looking after anyone in an emergency including war I take my moral lead from the Red Cross /Red Crescent.

I haven't read a newspaper for 30 years. And I've been moving increasingly to the radical left all of that time. I've worked with our own 'wounded' since 2009. The best you can do is be polite, serve them a meal as honoured guests. They cannot be actually helped, apart from 1 in a 100. Trying to help the helplessly unhelpable is soul destroying.

I guess what you have been working at since 2009, and I hope it's not presumptuous to thank you.
I understand the Red Cross/Red Crescent is in the business of immediate practical aid including of course reassurance. I imagine that a mother and her starving baby have a universal and overwhelming need that no mother would refuse help with.

It's the twitch of a little finger. Or was until last year. 1% of my time.

Aye, we've reached that level of charitable response in the modern world. The little finger twitch.

[Belinda]

I haven't read a newspaper for 30 years. And I've been moving increasingly to the radical left all of that time. I've worked with our own 'wounded' since 2009. The best you can do is be polite, serve them a meal as honoured guests. They cannot be actually helped, apart from 1 in a 100. Trying to help the helplessly unhelpable is soul destroying.

I guess what you have been working at since 2009, and I hope it's not presumptuous to thank you.
I understand the Red Cross/Red Crescent is in the business of immediate practical aid including of course reassurance. I imagine that a mother and her starving baby have a universal and overwhelming need that no mother would refuse help with.

It's the twitch of a little finger. Or was until last year. 1% of my time.

Aye, we've reached that level of charitable response in the modern world. The little finger twitch.

I must have guessed wrong. What I thought it was was involves a lot of emotional work on the part of the care giver.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I guess what you have been working at since 2009, and I hope it's not presumptuous to thank you.
I understand the Red Cross/Red Crescent is in the business of immediate practical aid including of course reassurance. I imagine that a mother and her starving baby have a universal and overwhelming need that no mother would refuse help with.

It's the twitch of a little finger. Or was until last year. 1% of my time.

Aye, we've reached that level of charitable response in the modern world. The little finger twitch.

I must have guessed wrong. What I thought it was was involves a lot of emotional work on the part of the care giver.

With detachment, boundaries, training, yes. Which you learn hard on the job. I had dinner with a publicly devout Christian doctor who worked in Chad. She looked up and smiled after recounting the black humour icing on the cake of everyone's utter helplessness, including the armed Islamist insurgents, and said, 'Hopeless isn't it'. It wasn't a question.

[Belinda]

It's the twitch of a little finger. Or was until last year. 1% of my time.

Aye, we've reached that level of charitable response in the modern world. The little finger twitch.

I must have guessed wrong. What I thought it was was involves a lot of emotional work on the part of the care giver.

With detachment, boundaries, training, yes. Which you learn hard on the job. I had dinner with a publicly devout Christian doctor who worked in Chad. She looked up and smiled after recounting the black humour icing on the cake of everyone's utter helplessness, including the armed Islamist insurgents, and said, 'Hopeless isn't it'. It wasn't a question.

I wonder how a card carrying Christin can be hopeless/

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I must have guessed wrong. What I thought it was was involves a lot of emotional work on the part of the care giver.

With detachment, boundaries, training, yes. Which you learn hard on the job. I had dinner with a publicly devout Christian doctor who worked in Chad. She looked up and smiled after recounting the black humour icing on the cake of everyone's utter helplessness, including the armed Islamist insurgents, and said, 'Hopeless isn't it'. It wasn't a question.

I wonder how a card carrying Christin can be hopeless/

She wasn't. The situation was. No expectation of any others could be met, one way and the other.

[Belinda]

With detachment, boundaries, training, yes. Which you learn hard on the job. I had dinner with a publicly devout Christian doctor who worked in Chad. She looked up and smiled after recounting the black humour icing on the cake of everyone's utter helplessness, including the armed Islamist insurgents, and said, 'Hopeless isn't it'. It wasn't a question.

I wonder how a card carrying Christin can be hopeless/

She wasn't. The situation was. No expectation of any others could be met, one way and the other.

I see. but I thought Christians were able to pray to the God Who is victorious even over death. It sounds like the poor woman has a crisis of faith. I mean, no wonder. No doubt people have crises of faith for more trivial reasons that the situation in Chad.
Do Christians in her situation not get to debrief psychologically?
I guess debriefing was at least part of what you were doing as her friend. It is however a poor show if her employers , the church or whoever, rely on a charity like Samaritans for what should be one of the terms of employment

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I wonder how a card carrying Christin can be hopeless/

She wasn't. The situation was. No expectation of any others could be met, one way and the other.

I see. but I thought Christians were able to pray to the God Who is victorious even over death. It sounds like the poor woman has a crisis of faith. I mean, no wonder. No doubt people have crises of faith for more trivial reasons that the situation in Chad.
Do Christians in her situation not get to debrief psychologically?
I guess debriefing was at least part of what you were doing as her friend. It is however a poor show if her employers , the church or whoever, rely on a charity like Samaritans for what should be one of the terms of employment

No, she was very robust. And honest. And devout. I didn't detect any shadow of doubt.

[popeye1945]

I think it is a mistake to refer to the Gaza Crisis, the Ukraine Crisis, and the Iran Crisis; we compartmentalize as if they were not part of a greater whole. The whole conflict is between the maintenance of empire and Western colonialism versus the rising call for a multipolar world not dominated by the American empire and supported by all the countries that have been colonizers of mostly weaker nations in the Eastern hemisphere for hundreds of years. The aggressors in this global conflict are the old world of manifest destiny or Western colonialism. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and began inheriting the powers of the British Empire just after the First World War. The British realized at that time that they could no longer get their way in the world; they needed the Americans. The West stands in the way of the global evolution of cooperating nations and is frightened of fair trade and equality among nations. Is the West morally wrong? I would say so, it has been morally wrong for hundreds of years unless one believes that the violent past of colonization is to be termed moral.

[accelafine]

I think it is a mistake to refer to the Gaza Crisis, the Ukraine Crisis, and the Iran Crisis; we compartmentalize as if they were not part of a greater whole. The whole conflict is between the maintenance of empire and Western colonialism versus the rising call for a multipolar world not dominated by the American empire and supported by all the countries that have been colonizers of mostly weaker nations in the Eastern hemisphere for hundreds of years. The aggressors in this global conflict are the old world of manifest destiny or Western colonialism. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and began inheriting the powers of the British Empire just after the First World War. The British realized at that time that they could no longer get their way in the world; they needed the Americans. The West stands in the way of the global evolution of cooperating nations and is frightened of fair trade and equality among nations. Is the West morally wrong? I would say so, it has been morally wrong for hundreds of years unless one believes that the violent past of colonization is to be termed moral.

Go back to your grass hut then, woke wanker hypocrite.