1408. As in room 1408. What's in there? Well, for starters, everything that folks who don't believe in the "supernatural" insist could never be in there.
And that is why folks who do believe in the supernatural will revel in it. They often imagine [or fantasize about] a supremely arrogant skeptic [think James Randi] who is thrust into a situation in which his debunking is itself debunked. He finally learns what the True Believers have known all along: that there are indeed things “out there” that defy explanation. Things that happen which we are unable to encompass rationally or logically. Or “scientifically”. Or things that are just plain Evil.
After all, what is a belief in the supernatural [or the paranormal] other than a narrative that [one way or another] gets around to [come on, let’s admit it] a life after death. With or without God.
And here Mike Enslin truly does come to embody the arrogant disdain of the cynical skeptic. In fact, he earns his living going from place to place in order to expose such things as “haunted houses” or “ghosts”. As shams, in other words.
But then don’t all of us “deep down inside” want to believe that death is not just oblivion? I know I do.
In room 1408 though, everything [evil or not] is personal. It all revolves around actual experiences [tragedies] from your past. The room and you become as one. There’s a reason you want to die. A reason you ought to die.
Unless of course the whole thing is just a dream. Or it’s a sneak peek at one possible rendition of eternal return. Or, in the end, you become the only man to “beat the room”
Note: This is the “theatrical version” of the film. There is also a “director’s cut” with an alternative ending.
The initial story inspiration for 1408 came from a collection of real-life news stories about parapsychologist Christopher Chacon’s investigation of a notoriously haunted room at the famous Hotel Del Coronado in Coronado, CA, as well as another undisclosed hotel on the East Coast.
The story this film was based on was almost never written. Stephen King originally created the first few pages of ‘1408’ for his nonfiction book, “On Writing,” as an example of how to revise a first draft.
Towards the beginning of his stay in room 1408, Mike mentions that “some smart-ass” once wrote about the ‘banality of evil.’ The smart-ass in question is German political theorist and intellectual Hannah Arendt, who wrote about the ‘banality of evil’ in her essay “Eichmann in Jerusalem.”
The ax the fireman uses to break down the hotel door at the end of the movie is the same ax that Jack Nicholson used in The Shining (1980) IMDb
1408
Mike [at book signing]: I’m a good researcher. I go into every gig locked and loaded. I travel with an EMF meter, full-range spectrometer, infrared camera. I mean, look, nothing would make me happier than to experience a paranormal event, you know, to get a glimpse of the elusive light at the end of the tunnel
I hear that. Even if you don't.
Woman at bookstore: So you’re saying there’s no such thing as ghosts?
Mike: I’m saying I’ve never seen one, but they’re awful convenient for desperate hotels when the interstate moves away.
That''ll do it.
Mike [on the phone to his editor about room 1408]: In and out. Nobody gets hurt. It’s just a job.
In maybe, but out is often considerably more problematic. Except when it's the other way around.
Gerald: You do drink don’t you?
Mike: Of course. I just said I was a writer.
Cliches are us?
Gerald: How long did you intend to stay?
Mike: How long? My usual is overnight.
Gerald: I see. No one’s ever lasted more than an hour.
Mike: Jesus, man. You ought to shave your eyebrows and paint your hair gold if you’re gonna try to sell that spookhouse bullshit. Otherwise, you’ll scare the children.
Gerald: Why do you insist on mocking me when I am genuinely, to the best of my ability, trying to help you?
One grifter to another?
Mike: Look man, just give me the key.Gerald: Mr. Enslin, you…
Mike: Just give me the key! Listen, I stayed… at the Bixby House. I brushed my goddamn teeth right next to the tub where Sir David Smith drowned his whole family, and I stopped being afraid of vampires when I was 12. Do you know why I can stay in your spooky old room, Mr. Olin? Because I know that ghoulies and ghosties and long-legged beasties… don’t exist. And even if they did, there’s no God to protect us from them, now is there?
Gerald: So I can’t talk you out of this?
Mike: I think we’ve reached an understanding.
Let's get back to him on this.
Mike [aloud to himself as he enters the room]: This is it? You got to be kidding me.
Let's get back to him on this.
Mike [into his tape recorder]: General manager claims that the phantom in room interferes…
Gerald: I have never used the word “phantom.”
Mike: Oh, I’m sorry. Uh, spirit? Specter?
Gerald: No, you misunderstand. Whatever’s in 1408 is nothing like that.
Mike: Then what is it?
Gerald: It’s just an evil fucking room.
On the other hand, what if it is beyond good and evil?
Mike [into his tape recorder]: Round one goes to the hideous Mr. Olin for effective aggressiveness. I have to admit, he had me going for a moment. But where is the bone-chilling terror? Show me the rivers of blood. It’s just a room.
On the other hand, we are talking Stephen King here.
Mike [examining the mini-bar]: Eight dollars for Beer Nuts? This room is evil!
How many do you actually get though?
Mike [into the tape recorder]: Olin said hotels are about fertile creature comforts. It’s a good line, but I wonder whether they’re really about reassuring platitudes, a prosaic sense of the familiar. "Yes, I’ve been here before. It’s safe. "
Time [as always] will tell.
Mike [describing the room]: There’s a sofa, a writing desk, faux antique armoire, floral wallpaper. Carpet’s unremarkable except for a stain beneath a thrift-store painting of a schooner lost at sea. The work is done in the predictably dull fashion of Currier and Ives. The second painting is of an old woman reading bedtime stories - a Whistler knockoff - to a group of deranged children while another Madonna and child watch from the background. It does have the vague air of menace. The third and final, painfully dull painting, the ever popular “The Hunt”. Horses, hounds and constipated British lords. Some smartass spoke about the banality of evil. If that’s true, then we’ve in the 7th circle of hell.
[he turns off tape recorder and pauses, then turns it back on]
Mike: It does have its charms.
And spells too.
Mike: [after the toilet paper has been turned down, and the chocolates appear]: Finally! Something for me to write about! A ghost that offers turn down service!
Let's just say it's just getting started.
Mike [talking into tape recorder]: Hotels are a naturally creepy place… Just think, how many people have slept in that bed before you? How many of them were sick? How many…died?
Or will die?
Mike [into the tape recorder]: Get hold of yourself. You’re running to places that aren’t real. You’re losing the plot. You’re losing the whole goddamn structure. Psychokinetic fibrillations. A tired mind among classic haunted-house powers of suggestion. Gaslit features, faded rugs, like that motel in Kansas. There’s a reason for everything. Just think.
We ought to start doing that here too.
Mike [into the recorder]: Wait a minute! He gave me booze. Olin gave me booze. Did he take a sip? I can’t remember. He dosed me! It was the booze. All right, all right. I’m just hallucinating. I’m just hallucinating. I’ve just got to ride this out. I’ve got to ride this out.
That's what they all said.
Mike [aloud to himself]: Maybe I’m not real. Maybe I’m just having a nightmare… an incredibly vivid lucid nightmare. When is the last time I remember going to bed? I flew in yesterday. Or was that… today? I can’t remember. Was I on a train? I woke up somewhere and I had breakfast. Where was I?
By now, however, the questions are beginning to run out of answers.
Mike [into the tape recorder]: They say you can’t die in your dreams. Is that true?
Well, so far, anyway.
Gerald [from “inside” the refrigerator]: You don’t believe in anything. You like shattering people’s hopes.
Mike: Oh, that’s bullshit!
Gerald: Why do you think people believe in ghosts? For fun? No. It’s the prospect of something after death.
Exactly! Right?
Katie [daughter]: Are there people where I’m going?
Mike: Hey… you’re not going anywhere, kiddo. You’re going to stay right here with us.
Katie: Daddy…everyone dies.
Lily: When they’re old.
Mike: When they’re much older.
Lily: Okay? And then they go to a better place. It’s beautiful there, all your friends will be there.
Katie: Is God there?
Mike: Yes.
Katie: Do you really believe that Daddy?
Mike: Yes.
It's about fucking time!
Mike [shouting after Katie has died]: You know what I think! We should have done more! We didn’t do enough!
Lily: Oh god! What are you talking about? We did everything we could have done!
Mike: We should have helped her fight! Not filled her head up with bullshit stories of heaven, and clouds and nirvana!
Of course, sometimes that's all we can fall back on. With kids.
Mike [answering the phone] Why don’t you just kill me?
Room 1408: Because all guests of this hotel enjoy free will, Mr. Enslin. You can choose to repeat this hour over and over again, or you can take advantage of our express checkout system.
[Mike looks into the other room and sees a hanging noose]
Click, anyway.
Room 1408 [on phone]: Mr. Enslin? Are you ready to check out, Mr. Enslin?
Mike: No. Not your way.
Room 1408: I understand.
Most rooms I've been in never have a clue.
Mike [into the tape recorder]: The decor is in tatters and the staff surly. But on the Shiver Scale…I award the Dolphin 10 skulls!
Next up: Trump Tower.
Quote of the day
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
You are a writer. A magazine has assigned you the task of writing an article about anti-Semitism. You set about it but you are stuck. What can really be written about it that has not already been thoroughly explored by other writers? Yes, you can go to the library and do your research. And you can accumulate endless facts and figures regarding the experiences of the Jews…the plight of Jews over the centuries.
But it’s all been done before. Then one day, sitting down with your mother, trying to explain the predicament, it comes, out of the blue, fortuitously: that “eureka” moment: Why not live as a Jew and experience first hand what that entails regarding actual encounters with others. Actually experience the prejudice and the discrimination yourself.
In other words, an existential account that goes far beyond the usual “analysis” of it as academic or a journalistic exercise.
Think Black Like Me. Only the bigotry here is religious. One might insist that bigotry is bigotry is bigotry…but there are different factors here that make distinctions inevitable. With religion, our attitudes can revolve literally around Heaven and Hell…around being doomed or being saved. Does that then make such prejudice more rather than less reasonable than, say, judging someone based solely on the color of their skin? That depends on who you ask of course.
But with religion, prejudice can get tricky. There is just so much at stake with regard to our mortality…and to our fate throughout all eternity. If you don’t take an “ecumenical” approach to it, it is not necessarily irrational to embrace only your own particular liturgy. And yet so much prejudice is blind. Or political.
And while there is one reference to racial prejudice here there is not a single solitary person of color in the film from start to finish. Or none that I saw. Nor any discussion of the obvious gender stereotypes. That I suppose is for later movies.
It’s also important to point out that this was filmed in 1947. In other words, just a few short years after the world became more fully aware of the Holocaust. And at a time historically when a subject matter of this sort was, to say the least, “controversial”. Especially coming out of Hollywood.
The timeliness of the film is revealed by a telling exchange that took place between screenwriter Moss Hart and a stagehand, as reported in The Saturday Review, December 6, 1947, pg. 71: “You know,” a stagehand is reported to have said to Mr. Hart, “I’ve loved working on this picture of yours. Usually I play gin-rummy with the boys when scenes are being shot. But not this time. This time I couldn’t leave the set. The picture has such a wonderful moral I didn’t want to miss it.” “Really,” beamed Mr. Hart, pleased not only as a scenarist but as a reformer. “That’s fine. What’s the moral as you see it?” “Well, I tell you,” replied the stagehand. “Henceforth I’m always going to be good to Jewish people because you never can tell when they will turn out to be Gentiles.”
Among the concerns that the movie’s anti-anti-semitic message would stir up a “hornet’s nest” was the bizarre belief that “Jewish friendly” films and novels from the time were linked with communism. The fear was not entirely unfounded, as many of the people involved with the film were brought before the House Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC), including Darryl F. Zanuck, Anne Revere, (perhaps most notoriously) Elia Kazan, and John Garfield. Garfield was brought before HUAC twice, was blacklisted, taken off the blacklist and put back on it again and it was believed that it was the stress of these experiences which led to the heart attack that killed him at the age of 39.
The movie mentions three real people well-known for their racism and anti-Semitism at the time: Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D - Miss), who advocated sending all African-Americans back to Africa; Rep. John Rankin (D - Miss), who called columnist Walter Winchell “the little ****” on the floor of the House of Representatives; and leader of “Share Our Wealth” and “Christian Nationalist Crusade” Gerald L.K. Smith, who tried legal means to prevent Twentieth Century-Fox from showing the movie in Tulsa. He lost the case, but then sued Fox for $1,000,000. The case was thrown out of court in 1951.
When other studio chiefs, who were mostly Jewish, heard about the making of this film, they asked the producer not to make it. They feared its theme of anti-Semitism would simply stir up a hornet’s nest and preferred to deal with the problem quietly. Not only did production continue, but a scene was subsequently included that mirrored that confrontation. IMDb
Gentleman's Agreement
Phil: Funny, your suggesting the series.Kathy: Is it? Why?
Phil: Oh, uh…lots of reasons.
Kathy: You make up your mind too quickly about people. Women, anyway. I saw you do it when you sat down. You cross-filed and indexed me—a little too well bred, self-confident, artificial, a trifle absurd, typical New York.
Phil: No, I didn’t have time for all that.
Kathy: Yes, you did. I even left out a few—faintly irritating upper-class manner…overbright voice.
Phil: All right, all right, I give up. You win.
I certainly thought so.
Tommy [Phil’s son]: What’s anti-Semitism?
Phil: Well, uh, that’s when some people don’t like other people just because they’re Jews.
Tommy: Why not? Are Jews bad?
Phil: Well, some are and some aren’t, just like with everyone else.
Tommy: What are Jews, anyway? I mean exactly.
Phil: Well, uh, it’s like this. Remember last week when you asked me about that big church, and I told you there are all different kinds of churches? Well, the people who go to that particular church are called Catholics, and there are people who go to different churches and they’re called Protestants, and there are people who go to different churches and they’re called Jews, only they call their churches temples or synagogues.
Tommy: Why don’t some people like them?
Phil: Well, that’s kind of a tough one to explain, Tom. Some people hate Catholics and some hate Jews.
Tommy: And no one hates us 'cause we’re Americans.
Phil [more uncertain]: Well, no, no. That’s, uh… that’s another thing again. You can be an American and a Catholic…or an American and a Protestant…or an American and a Jew. Look, Tom, it’s like this. One thing’s your country, see? Like America…or France or Germany or Russia, all the countries. The flag, the uniform, the language is different. And the airplanes are marked different? Differently, that’s right. But the other thing is religion… like the Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant religions.
They’re the same and yet…different.
Mrs. Green [Mom]: So you think there’s enough anti-Semitism in life already without people reading about it?
Phil: No, but this story is doomed before I start. What can I say about anti-Semitism that hasn’t been said before?
Mrs. Green: I don’t know. Maybe it hasn’t been said well enough. If it had, you wouldn’t have had to explain it to Tommy right now.
Explain this to, well, you know.
Phil: I’ll have to get facts from your research people.
John [editor]: I’ve got eighteen hacks on this magazine who can do this series with their hands full of facts. I don’t need you for that. What do you think I brought you here for? Use your head. Go right to the source. I want some angle, some compelling lead…some dramatic device to humanize it so it gets read.
In other words, without actually making things up.
Mrs. Green: No ideas at all yet?
Phil: Sure, plenty of ideas, but they all explode in my face. They just don’t stand up. The right one causes a click inside you. It hasn’t happened yet. Doesn’t look like it’s going to, either. I’m bored with the whole thing…bored with myself, as a matter of fact.
Mrs. Green: Isn’t it always tough at the start, Phil?
Phil: Never like this. Never. I’ve tried everything–anti-Semitism in business, labor, professions. It’s all there, but I can’t make it give. I’ve tried everything, separately and together. When I think I’m getting onto something good…I go a little deeper, and it turns into the same old drool…of statistics and protest.
Same old drool here as well. Whatever that means.
Phil: Gee, I wish Dave were here. He’d be the guy to talk it over with, wouldn’t he?
Mrs. Green Yes, he would. Still overseas?
Phil: Yeah. Looks like he’s stuck there, too. He’d be just the one, though. Hey, maybe that’s a new tack. So far, I’ve been digging into facts and evidence. I’ve sort of ignored feelings. How must a fellow like Dave feel about this thing? Over and above what we feel about it…what must a Jew feel about this thing?
New thread?
Phil [sitting down to write a letter to Dave]: Now, what do I say? What do I say? ‘‘Dear Dave, give me the lowdown on your guts… when you hear about Rankin calling people kikes. How do you feel when Jewish kids get their teeth kicked out by Jew-haters?’’ Could you write that kind of a letter, Ma? That’s no good, all of it. It wouldn’t be any good if I could write it. There’s no way to tear open the secret heart of another.
Go ahead, try to tear open mine.
Mrs. Green: Every article you wrote, the right answers got in.
Phil: Yeah, but I didn’t ask for them. When I wanted to find out about a scared guy in a jalopy I didn’t stand out on Route Sixty-six and ask a lot of questions. I bought some old clothes and a broken-down car and took Route Sixty-six myself. I lived in their camps, ate what they ate. I found the answers in my own guts…not somebody else’s. I didn’t say, ‘‘What does it feel like to be an Okie?’’ I was an Okie. That’s the difference, Ma. On the coal mine series…I didn’t sit in my bedroom and do research. I didn’t tap some poor guy on the shoulder and make him talk. I got myself a job. I went in the dark. I slept in a shack. I didn’t try to dig into a miner’s heart. I was a miner.
[then it dawns on him…like a bolt of lightening]
Phil: Ma…maybe. Hey, maybe…I got it! The lead, the idea, the angle. This is the way. I’ll–I’ll be Jewish. I’ll…well, all I got to do is say it. Nobody knows me around here. I can just say it. I can live it myself for six weeks, eight weeks, nine months.
Eufuckingreka!
Weisman: As an old friend, this is a very bad idea, John…the most harmful thing you could possibly do now.
John: Why is it a harmful idea?
Weisman: It’ll only stir it up more. Let it alone. We’ll handle it our own way.
John: The hush-hush way?
Weisman: Call it what you like. Let it alone. You can’t write it out of existence. We’ve been fighting it for years. We know from experience…the less talk there is, the better.
John: Sure. Pretend it doesn’t exist…add to the conspiracy of silence. I should say not. Keep silent and let Bilbo… and Gerald L.K. Smith do all the talking? No, sir. Irving…you and your… let’s-be-quiet-about-it committees have gotten no place.
Of course: too close to call.
Elaine: If your name was Saul Green or Irving you wouldn’t have to go to all this bother. I changed mine. Estelle Walovsky to Wales. I just couldn’t take it—about the job applications, I mean. So one day I wrote the same firm two letters…same as you’re doing now. I sent the Elaine Wales one after they’d said there were no openings. I got the job, all right. Do you know what firm that was? “Smith’s Weekly.”
Phil: No…
Elaine: Yes, Mr. Green. The great liberal magazine that fights injustice on all sides. The one we work for. It slays me. I love it.
Phil: Mr. Minify know about that?
Elaine: No. He can’t be bothered thinking about small fry.
Some things just never change. And even when they do sometimes.
Elaine: You just let them get one wrong Jew in here, and it’ll come out of us. It’s no fun being the fall guy for the kikey ones.
Phil: Miss Wales, I’m going to be frank with you. I want you to know that words like yid and **** and kikey and coon and n***** make me sick no matter who says them.
Elaine: Oh, but I only said it for a type.
Phil: Yeah, but we’re talking about the word first.
Elaine: Why, sometimes I even say it to myself, about me, I mean. Like, if I’m about to do something I know I shouldn’t, I’ll say, “Don’t be such a little ****.” That’s all. But let one objectionable one…
Phil: What do you mean by objectionable?
Elaine: Loud and too much rouge…
Phil: They don’t hire any loud, vulgar girls. Why should they start?
Elaine: It’s not only that, Mr. Green, you’re sort of heckling me. You know the sort that starts trouble in a place like this…and the sort that doesn’t, like you or me…so why pin me down?
Phil: You mean because we don’t look especially Jewish…because we’re OK Jews…with us it can be kept comfortable and quiet?
Elaine: I didn’t say…
Phil: Miss Wales, I hate anti-Semitism…and I hate it from you or anybody who’s Jewish…as much as I hate it from Gentiles.
These things do get complicated. Even here, of course.
Professor Lieberman: If we agree there’s confusion, we can talk. We scientists love confusion. Right now I’m starting on a new crusade of my own. I have no religion, so I’m not Jewish by religion. Further, I’m a scientist, so I must rely on science…which shows me I’m not Jewish by race…since there’s no such thing as a distinct Jewish race. There’s not even a Jewish type. Well, my crusade will have a certain charm. I will simply go forth and state I’m not a Jew. With my face, that becomes not an evasion but a new principle—a scientific principle.
Like the bigots don't have their own science to fall back on here.
Professor Lieberman: There must be millions of people nowadays who are religious only in the vaguest sense. I’ve often wondered why the Jews among them still go on calling themselves Jews. Do you know, Mr. Green?
Phil: No, but I’d like to.
Professor Lieberman: Because the world still makes it an advantage not to be one. Thus it becomes a matter of pride to go on calling ourselves Jews. So you see, I will have to abandon my crusade…before it begins. Only if there were no anti-Semites could I go on with it.
Or something like that.
Kathy: I’m not asking you to make loopholes where it counts—at the office, meeting people, like at Anne’s tonight—but to go to Connecticut to a party.
Phil: And if we were to use my house…Besides, Jane and Harry, I thought they were grand. Kathy: They are, but some of their friends…
Phil: And it would just make…a thing, a mess, an inconvenience.
Kathy: It would.
Phil: For Jane and Harry, or for you, too?
Kathy: I’d be so tensed up, I wouldn’t have any fun. If everything’s going to be so tensed up and solemn…
Phil: I…I think I’d better go now.
Good call.
Tommy: Say, Pop! Are we Jewish? Jimmy Kelly said we were. Our janitor told his janitor. Phil: Well, what did you say toJimmy Kelly?
Tommy: I told him I’d ask you.
Well, sort of, anyway.
Phil: I’ve been saying I’m Jewish, and it works.
Dave: Why, you crazy fool! It’s working?
Phil: It works too well. I’ve been having my nose rubbed in it, and I don’t like the smell.
Dave: You’re not insulated yet, Phil. The impact must be quite a business on you.
Phil: You mean you get indifferent to it in time?
Dave: No, but you’re concentrating a lifetime into a few weeks. You’re making the thing happen every day. The facts are no different, Phil. It just telescopes it, makes it hurt more.
Let's see if it hurts more here.
Tommy: They called me a dirty Jew and a stinking ****, and they all ran away.
Kathy: Oh, darling, it’s not true. It’s not true! You’re no more Jewish than I am. It’s just some horrible mistake.
Phil: Kathy!
In one ear and out the other. Not to mention the other way around.
Tommy: They were playing, and I asked if I could play too, and one said that no dirty little Jew could play with them, and they all yelled those other things. I tried to speak, and they all yelled that my father has a long curly beard, and they turned and ran. Why did they do it, Pop?
Phil: Did you want to tell them that you weren’t Jewish?
Tommy: No.
Phil: That’s good. There are a lot of kids just like you who are Jewish, and if you had said that, you’d be admitting there was something bad in being Jewish.
Tommy: They didn’t even fight. They just ran.
Phil: I know. There are a lot of grown-ups like that too, only they do it with wisecracks instead of with yelling.
On the other hand...
Kathy: Phil, I’ve got something to tell you. I’m pretty tired of feeling wrong. Everything I say is wrong about anything Jewish. All I did was face facts about Dave and Darien…and to tell Tom just what you told him.
Phil: Not just what. You’ve only assured him he’s the most wonderful of all creatures—a white Christian American. You instantly gave him that lovely taste of superiority…the poison that millions of parents drop into the minds of children.
Kathy: You really do think I’m an anti-Semite. You’ve thought it secretly all along.
Phil: No, I don’t. But I’ve come to see lots of nice people who hate it and deplore it and protest their own innocence, then help it along and wonder why it grows. People who would never beat up a Jew. People who think anti-Semitism is far away in some dark place with low-class morons. That’s the biggest discovery I’ve made about this whole business, Kathy. The good people. The nice people.
Got a couple of them here. Or, sure, quite a few.
Kathy: You’re doing an impossible thing. You are what you are for the one life you have. You can’t help being born Christian instead of Jewish. It doesn’t mean you’re glad you were. But I am glad. There. I’ve said it. It’d be terrible. I’m glad I’m not. I could never make you understand that. You could never understand that it’s a fact… like being glad you’re good-looking instead of ugly, rich instead of poor, young instead of old, healthy instead of sick. You could never understand that. It’s just a practical fact not a judgment that I’m superior. But I could never make you see that. You’d twist it into something horrible—a conniving, an aiding and abetting… a thing I loathe as much as you do.
Let's complicate it even more.
Dave: What’s wrong, Phil? Flume Inn?
Phil: Tommy got called a dirty Jew and a **** by some kids down the street. Came home pretty badly shaken up.
Dave, Well now you know it all. That’s the place they really get at you—your kids. Now you even know that. Well, you can quit being Jewish now. There’s nothing else. My own kids got it without the names, Phil. Just setting their hearts on a summer camp their bunch were going to… and being kept out. It wrecked them for a while. The only other thing that makes you want to murder is…There was a boy in our outfit, Abe Schlussman. Good soldier. Good engineer. One night, we got bombed, and he caught it. I was ten yards off. Somebody said, ‘‘Give me a hand with this sheeny.’’ Those were the last words he ever heard.
Sheeny? "Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. A contemptuous term used to refer to a Jew."
Elaine [looking at the manuscript title]: ‘‘I Was Jewish For Eight Weeks.’’ Why, Mr. Green… you’re a Christian. But I never…I’ve been around you more than anybody else.
Phil: What’s so upsetting about that, Miss Wales? There is some difference between Jews and Christians? Look at me hard. I’m the same man I was yesterday. That’s true, isn’t it? Why should you be so astonished, Miss Wales? Still can’t believe anybody would give up… the glory of being a Christian for even eight weeks? That’s what’s eating you, isn’t it? If I tell you that’s anti-Semitism…your feeling of being Christian is better than being Jewish…you’ll say I’m heckling you again…I’m twisting your words around, or it’s just facing facts as someone else said to me yesterday. Face me. Look at me. Same face, same eyes, same nose, same suit, same everything. Here. Take my hand. Feel it! Same flesh as yours, isn’t it? No different today than yesterday. The only thing that’s different is the word Christian.
That and the words judgment Day.
Anne: OK. I’m a cat and this is dirty pool. But I’m intolerant of hypocrites. That’s what I said, Phil. Hypocrites. She’d rather let Dave lose that job than risk a fuss. That’s it, isn’t it? She’s afraid. The Kathys everywhere are afraid of getting the gate from their little groups of nice people. They make little clucking sounds of disapproval but they want you and Uncle John to stand up and yell and take sides and fight. But do they fight? Oh, no. Kathy and Harry and Jane and all of them…they scold Bilbo twice a year and think they’ve fought the good fight for democracy. They haven’t got the guts to take the step from talking to action. One little action on one little front. I know it’s not the whole answer but it’s got to start somewhere. It’s got to be with action, not pamphlets…not even with your series.
Of course, actions can be pursued from both sides. But point taken.
But it’s all been done before. Then one day, sitting down with your mother, trying to explain the predicament, it comes, out of the blue, fortuitously: that “eureka” moment: Why not live as a Jew and experience first hand what that entails regarding actual encounters with others. Actually experience the prejudice and the discrimination yourself.
In other words, an existential account that goes far beyond the usual “analysis” of it as academic or a journalistic exercise.
Think Black Like Me. Only the bigotry here is religious. One might insist that bigotry is bigotry is bigotry…but there are different factors here that make distinctions inevitable. With religion, our attitudes can revolve literally around Heaven and Hell…around being doomed or being saved. Does that then make such prejudice more rather than less reasonable than, say, judging someone based solely on the color of their skin? That depends on who you ask of course.
But with religion, prejudice can get tricky. There is just so much at stake with regard to our mortality…and to our fate throughout all eternity. If you don’t take an “ecumenical” approach to it, it is not necessarily irrational to embrace only your own particular liturgy. And yet so much prejudice is blind. Or political.
And while there is one reference to racial prejudice here there is not a single solitary person of color in the film from start to finish. Or none that I saw. Nor any discussion of the obvious gender stereotypes. That I suppose is for later movies.
It’s also important to point out that this was filmed in 1947. In other words, just a few short years after the world became more fully aware of the Holocaust. And at a time historically when a subject matter of this sort was, to say the least, “controversial”. Especially coming out of Hollywood.
The timeliness of the film is revealed by a telling exchange that took place between screenwriter Moss Hart and a stagehand, as reported in The Saturday Review, December 6, 1947, pg. 71: “You know,” a stagehand is reported to have said to Mr. Hart, “I’ve loved working on this picture of yours. Usually I play gin-rummy with the boys when scenes are being shot. But not this time. This time I couldn’t leave the set. The picture has such a wonderful moral I didn’t want to miss it.” “Really,” beamed Mr. Hart, pleased not only as a scenarist but as a reformer. “That’s fine. What’s the moral as you see it?” “Well, I tell you,” replied the stagehand. “Henceforth I’m always going to be good to Jewish people because you never can tell when they will turn out to be Gentiles.”
Among the concerns that the movie’s anti-anti-semitic message would stir up a “hornet’s nest” was the bizarre belief that “Jewish friendly” films and novels from the time were linked with communism. The fear was not entirely unfounded, as many of the people involved with the film were brought before the House Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC), including Darryl F. Zanuck, Anne Revere, (perhaps most notoriously) Elia Kazan, and John Garfield. Garfield was brought before HUAC twice, was blacklisted, taken off the blacklist and put back on it again and it was believed that it was the stress of these experiences which led to the heart attack that killed him at the age of 39.
The movie mentions three real people well-known for their racism and anti-Semitism at the time: Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D - Miss), who advocated sending all African-Americans back to Africa; Rep. John Rankin (D - Miss), who called columnist Walter Winchell “the little ****” on the floor of the House of Representatives; and leader of “Share Our Wealth” and “Christian Nationalist Crusade” Gerald L.K. Smith, who tried legal means to prevent Twentieth Century-Fox from showing the movie in Tulsa. He lost the case, but then sued Fox for $1,000,000. The case was thrown out of court in 1951.
When other studio chiefs, who were mostly Jewish, heard about the making of this film, they asked the producer not to make it. They feared its theme of anti-Semitism would simply stir up a hornet’s nest and preferred to deal with the problem quietly. Not only did production continue, but a scene was subsequently included that mirrored that confrontation. IMDb
Gentleman's Agreement
Phil: Funny, your suggesting the series.Kathy: Is it? Why?
Phil: Oh, uh…lots of reasons.
Kathy: You make up your mind too quickly about people. Women, anyway. I saw you do it when you sat down. You cross-filed and indexed me—a little too well bred, self-confident, artificial, a trifle absurd, typical New York.
Phil: No, I didn’t have time for all that.
Kathy: Yes, you did. I even left out a few—faintly irritating upper-class manner…overbright voice.
Phil: All right, all right, I give up. You win.
I certainly thought so.
Tommy [Phil’s son]: What’s anti-Semitism?
Phil: Well, uh, that’s when some people don’t like other people just because they’re Jews.
Tommy: Why not? Are Jews bad?
Phil: Well, some are and some aren’t, just like with everyone else.
Tommy: What are Jews, anyway? I mean exactly.
Phil: Well, uh, it’s like this. Remember last week when you asked me about that big church, and I told you there are all different kinds of churches? Well, the people who go to that particular church are called Catholics, and there are people who go to different churches and they’re called Protestants, and there are people who go to different churches and they’re called Jews, only they call their churches temples or synagogues.
Tommy: Why don’t some people like them?
Phil: Well, that’s kind of a tough one to explain, Tom. Some people hate Catholics and some hate Jews.
Tommy: And no one hates us 'cause we’re Americans.
Phil [more uncertain]: Well, no, no. That’s, uh… that’s another thing again. You can be an American and a Catholic…or an American and a Protestant…or an American and a Jew. Look, Tom, it’s like this. One thing’s your country, see? Like America…or France or Germany or Russia, all the countries. The flag, the uniform, the language is different. And the airplanes are marked different? Differently, that’s right. But the other thing is religion… like the Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant religions.
They’re the same and yet…different.
Mrs. Green [Mom]: So you think there’s enough anti-Semitism in life already without people reading about it?
Phil: No, but this story is doomed before I start. What can I say about anti-Semitism that hasn’t been said before?
Mrs. Green: I don’t know. Maybe it hasn’t been said well enough. If it had, you wouldn’t have had to explain it to Tommy right now.
Explain this to, well, you know.
Phil: I’ll have to get facts from your research people.
John [editor]: I’ve got eighteen hacks on this magazine who can do this series with their hands full of facts. I don’t need you for that. What do you think I brought you here for? Use your head. Go right to the source. I want some angle, some compelling lead…some dramatic device to humanize it so it gets read.
In other words, without actually making things up.
Mrs. Green: No ideas at all yet?
Phil: Sure, plenty of ideas, but they all explode in my face. They just don’t stand up. The right one causes a click inside you. It hasn’t happened yet. Doesn’t look like it’s going to, either. I’m bored with the whole thing…bored with myself, as a matter of fact.
Mrs. Green: Isn’t it always tough at the start, Phil?
Phil: Never like this. Never. I’ve tried everything–anti-Semitism in business, labor, professions. It’s all there, but I can’t make it give. I’ve tried everything, separately and together. When I think I’m getting onto something good…I go a little deeper, and it turns into the same old drool…of statistics and protest.
Same old drool here as well. Whatever that means.
Phil: Gee, I wish Dave were here. He’d be the guy to talk it over with, wouldn’t he?
Mrs. Green Yes, he would. Still overseas?
Phil: Yeah. Looks like he’s stuck there, too. He’d be just the one, though. Hey, maybe that’s a new tack. So far, I’ve been digging into facts and evidence. I’ve sort of ignored feelings. How must a fellow like Dave feel about this thing? Over and above what we feel about it…what must a Jew feel about this thing?
New thread?
Phil [sitting down to write a letter to Dave]: Now, what do I say? What do I say? ‘‘Dear Dave, give me the lowdown on your guts… when you hear about Rankin calling people kikes. How do you feel when Jewish kids get their teeth kicked out by Jew-haters?’’ Could you write that kind of a letter, Ma? That’s no good, all of it. It wouldn’t be any good if I could write it. There’s no way to tear open the secret heart of another.
Go ahead, try to tear open mine.
Mrs. Green: Every article you wrote, the right answers got in.
Phil: Yeah, but I didn’t ask for them. When I wanted to find out about a scared guy in a jalopy I didn’t stand out on Route Sixty-six and ask a lot of questions. I bought some old clothes and a broken-down car and took Route Sixty-six myself. I lived in their camps, ate what they ate. I found the answers in my own guts…not somebody else’s. I didn’t say, ‘‘What does it feel like to be an Okie?’’ I was an Okie. That’s the difference, Ma. On the coal mine series…I didn’t sit in my bedroom and do research. I didn’t tap some poor guy on the shoulder and make him talk. I got myself a job. I went in the dark. I slept in a shack. I didn’t try to dig into a miner’s heart. I was a miner.
[then it dawns on him…like a bolt of lightening]
Phil: Ma…maybe. Hey, maybe…I got it! The lead, the idea, the angle. This is the way. I’ll–I’ll be Jewish. I’ll…well, all I got to do is say it. Nobody knows me around here. I can just say it. I can live it myself for six weeks, eight weeks, nine months.
Eufuckingreka!
Weisman: As an old friend, this is a very bad idea, John…the most harmful thing you could possibly do now.
John: Why is it a harmful idea?
Weisman: It’ll only stir it up more. Let it alone. We’ll handle it our own way.
John: The hush-hush way?
Weisman: Call it what you like. Let it alone. You can’t write it out of existence. We’ve been fighting it for years. We know from experience…the less talk there is, the better.
John: Sure. Pretend it doesn’t exist…add to the conspiracy of silence. I should say not. Keep silent and let Bilbo… and Gerald L.K. Smith do all the talking? No, sir. Irving…you and your… let’s-be-quiet-about-it committees have gotten no place.
Of course: too close to call.
Elaine: If your name was Saul Green or Irving you wouldn’t have to go to all this bother. I changed mine. Estelle Walovsky to Wales. I just couldn’t take it—about the job applications, I mean. So one day I wrote the same firm two letters…same as you’re doing now. I sent the Elaine Wales one after they’d said there were no openings. I got the job, all right. Do you know what firm that was? “Smith’s Weekly.”
Phil: No…
Elaine: Yes, Mr. Green. The great liberal magazine that fights injustice on all sides. The one we work for. It slays me. I love it.
Phil: Mr. Minify know about that?
Elaine: No. He can’t be bothered thinking about small fry.
Some things just never change. And even when they do sometimes.
Elaine: You just let them get one wrong Jew in here, and it’ll come out of us. It’s no fun being the fall guy for the kikey ones.
Phil: Miss Wales, I’m going to be frank with you. I want you to know that words like yid and **** and kikey and coon and n***** make me sick no matter who says them.
Elaine: Oh, but I only said it for a type.
Phil: Yeah, but we’re talking about the word first.
Elaine: Why, sometimes I even say it to myself, about me, I mean. Like, if I’m about to do something I know I shouldn’t, I’ll say, “Don’t be such a little ****.” That’s all. But let one objectionable one…
Phil: What do you mean by objectionable?
Elaine: Loud and too much rouge…
Phil: They don’t hire any loud, vulgar girls. Why should they start?
Elaine: It’s not only that, Mr. Green, you’re sort of heckling me. You know the sort that starts trouble in a place like this…and the sort that doesn’t, like you or me…so why pin me down?
Phil: You mean because we don’t look especially Jewish…because we’re OK Jews…with us it can be kept comfortable and quiet?
Elaine: I didn’t say…
Phil: Miss Wales, I hate anti-Semitism…and I hate it from you or anybody who’s Jewish…as much as I hate it from Gentiles.
These things do get complicated. Even here, of course.
Professor Lieberman: If we agree there’s confusion, we can talk. We scientists love confusion. Right now I’m starting on a new crusade of my own. I have no religion, so I’m not Jewish by religion. Further, I’m a scientist, so I must rely on science…which shows me I’m not Jewish by race…since there’s no such thing as a distinct Jewish race. There’s not even a Jewish type. Well, my crusade will have a certain charm. I will simply go forth and state I’m not a Jew. With my face, that becomes not an evasion but a new principle—a scientific principle.
Like the bigots don't have their own science to fall back on here.
Professor Lieberman: There must be millions of people nowadays who are religious only in the vaguest sense. I’ve often wondered why the Jews among them still go on calling themselves Jews. Do you know, Mr. Green?
Phil: No, but I’d like to.
Professor Lieberman: Because the world still makes it an advantage not to be one. Thus it becomes a matter of pride to go on calling ourselves Jews. So you see, I will have to abandon my crusade…before it begins. Only if there were no anti-Semites could I go on with it.
Or something like that.
Kathy: I’m not asking you to make loopholes where it counts—at the office, meeting people, like at Anne’s tonight—but to go to Connecticut to a party.
Phil: And if we were to use my house…Besides, Jane and Harry, I thought they were grand. Kathy: They are, but some of their friends…
Phil: And it would just make…a thing, a mess, an inconvenience.
Kathy: It would.
Phil: For Jane and Harry, or for you, too?
Kathy: I’d be so tensed up, I wouldn’t have any fun. If everything’s going to be so tensed up and solemn…
Phil: I…I think I’d better go now.
Good call.
Tommy: Say, Pop! Are we Jewish? Jimmy Kelly said we were. Our janitor told his janitor. Phil: Well, what did you say toJimmy Kelly?
Tommy: I told him I’d ask you.
Well, sort of, anyway.
Phil: I’ve been saying I’m Jewish, and it works.
Dave: Why, you crazy fool! It’s working?
Phil: It works too well. I’ve been having my nose rubbed in it, and I don’t like the smell.
Dave: You’re not insulated yet, Phil. The impact must be quite a business on you.
Phil: You mean you get indifferent to it in time?
Dave: No, but you’re concentrating a lifetime into a few weeks. You’re making the thing happen every day. The facts are no different, Phil. It just telescopes it, makes it hurt more.
Let's see if it hurts more here.
Tommy: They called me a dirty Jew and a stinking ****, and they all ran away.
Kathy: Oh, darling, it’s not true. It’s not true! You’re no more Jewish than I am. It’s just some horrible mistake.
Phil: Kathy!
In one ear and out the other. Not to mention the other way around.
Tommy: They were playing, and I asked if I could play too, and one said that no dirty little Jew could play with them, and they all yelled those other things. I tried to speak, and they all yelled that my father has a long curly beard, and they turned and ran. Why did they do it, Pop?
Phil: Did you want to tell them that you weren’t Jewish?
Tommy: No.
Phil: That’s good. There are a lot of kids just like you who are Jewish, and if you had said that, you’d be admitting there was something bad in being Jewish.
Tommy: They didn’t even fight. They just ran.
Phil: I know. There are a lot of grown-ups like that too, only they do it with wisecracks instead of with yelling.
On the other hand...
Kathy: Phil, I’ve got something to tell you. I’m pretty tired of feeling wrong. Everything I say is wrong about anything Jewish. All I did was face facts about Dave and Darien…and to tell Tom just what you told him.
Phil: Not just what. You’ve only assured him he’s the most wonderful of all creatures—a white Christian American. You instantly gave him that lovely taste of superiority…the poison that millions of parents drop into the minds of children.
Kathy: You really do think I’m an anti-Semite. You’ve thought it secretly all along.
Phil: No, I don’t. But I’ve come to see lots of nice people who hate it and deplore it and protest their own innocence, then help it along and wonder why it grows. People who would never beat up a Jew. People who think anti-Semitism is far away in some dark place with low-class morons. That’s the biggest discovery I’ve made about this whole business, Kathy. The good people. The nice people.
Got a couple of them here. Or, sure, quite a few.
Kathy: You’re doing an impossible thing. You are what you are for the one life you have. You can’t help being born Christian instead of Jewish. It doesn’t mean you’re glad you were. But I am glad. There. I’ve said it. It’d be terrible. I’m glad I’m not. I could never make you understand that. You could never understand that it’s a fact… like being glad you’re good-looking instead of ugly, rich instead of poor, young instead of old, healthy instead of sick. You could never understand that. It’s just a practical fact not a judgment that I’m superior. But I could never make you see that. You’d twist it into something horrible—a conniving, an aiding and abetting… a thing I loathe as much as you do.
Let's complicate it even more.
Dave: What’s wrong, Phil? Flume Inn?
Phil: Tommy got called a dirty Jew and a **** by some kids down the street. Came home pretty badly shaken up.
Dave, Well now you know it all. That’s the place they really get at you—your kids. Now you even know that. Well, you can quit being Jewish now. There’s nothing else. My own kids got it without the names, Phil. Just setting their hearts on a summer camp their bunch were going to… and being kept out. It wrecked them for a while. The only other thing that makes you want to murder is…There was a boy in our outfit, Abe Schlussman. Good soldier. Good engineer. One night, we got bombed, and he caught it. I was ten yards off. Somebody said, ‘‘Give me a hand with this sheeny.’’ Those were the last words he ever heard.
Sheeny? "Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. A contemptuous term used to refer to a Jew."
Elaine [looking at the manuscript title]: ‘‘I Was Jewish For Eight Weeks.’’ Why, Mr. Green… you’re a Christian. But I never…I’ve been around you more than anybody else.
Phil: What’s so upsetting about that, Miss Wales? There is some difference between Jews and Christians? Look at me hard. I’m the same man I was yesterday. That’s true, isn’t it? Why should you be so astonished, Miss Wales? Still can’t believe anybody would give up… the glory of being a Christian for even eight weeks? That’s what’s eating you, isn’t it? If I tell you that’s anti-Semitism…your feeling of being Christian is better than being Jewish…you’ll say I’m heckling you again…I’m twisting your words around, or it’s just facing facts as someone else said to me yesterday. Face me. Look at me. Same face, same eyes, same nose, same suit, same everything. Here. Take my hand. Feel it! Same flesh as yours, isn’t it? No different today than yesterday. The only thing that’s different is the word Christian.
That and the words judgment Day.
Anne: OK. I’m a cat and this is dirty pool. But I’m intolerant of hypocrites. That’s what I said, Phil. Hypocrites. She’d rather let Dave lose that job than risk a fuss. That’s it, isn’t it? She’s afraid. The Kathys everywhere are afraid of getting the gate from their little groups of nice people. They make little clucking sounds of disapproval but they want you and Uncle John to stand up and yell and take sides and fight. But do they fight? Oh, no. Kathy and Harry and Jane and all of them…they scold Bilbo twice a year and think they’ve fought the good fight for democracy. They haven’t got the guts to take the step from talking to action. One little action on one little front. I know it’s not the whole answer but it’s got to start somewhere. It’s got to be with action, not pamphlets…not even with your series.
Of course, actions can be pursued from both sides. But point taken.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Stupidity
“I’m different,” said the Kid. “My gran always said I was half clever, half stupid, and half crazy.” Charlie Higson
Billy?
“First, however, I must deal with the matter of Jesus, the so-called savior, who not long ago taught new doctrines and was thought to be a son of God. This savior, I shall attempt to show, deceived many and caused them to accept a form of belief harmful to the well-being of mankind. Taking its root in the lower classes, the religion continues to spread among the vulgar: nay, one can even say it spreads because of its vulgarity and the illiteracy of its adherents. And while there are a few moderate, reasonable, and intelligent people who interpret its beliefs allegorically, yet it thrives in its purer form among the ignorant.” Celsus
Nothing personal?
“To be wicked is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that you are; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil from stupidity.” Charles Baudelaire
In other words, to post or not to post.
“It's the wrong way. She's farther away from the door now. It occurs to me that some people only have book smarts.” Kendare Blake
Next up: cloud smarts.
“Dramatic uprising of stupidity can start from nowhere and only be seen when it reaches its climax.” Oscar Auliq-Ice
Start here: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora
“The earth is a great piece of stupidity.” Victor Hugo
Next up: Mars.
“I’m different,” said the Kid. “My gran always said I was half clever, half stupid, and half crazy.” Charlie Higson
Billy?
“First, however, I must deal with the matter of Jesus, the so-called savior, who not long ago taught new doctrines and was thought to be a son of God. This savior, I shall attempt to show, deceived many and caused them to accept a form of belief harmful to the well-being of mankind. Taking its root in the lower classes, the religion continues to spread among the vulgar: nay, one can even say it spreads because of its vulgarity and the illiteracy of its adherents. And while there are a few moderate, reasonable, and intelligent people who interpret its beliefs allegorically, yet it thrives in its purer form among the ignorant.” Celsus
Nothing personal?
“To be wicked is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that you are; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil from stupidity.” Charles Baudelaire
In other words, to post or not to post.
“It's the wrong way. She's farther away from the door now. It occurs to me that some people only have book smarts.” Kendare Blake
Next up: cloud smarts.
“Dramatic uprising of stupidity can start from nowhere and only be seen when it reaches its climax.” Oscar Auliq-Ice
Start here: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora
“The earth is a great piece of stupidity.” Victor Hugo
Next up: Mars.
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accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Does anyone else want to whack this entitled, narcissistic wanker into oblivion or is it just me?
Last edited by accelafine on Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Or is it an entitled spambot? Which of the two is more detestable?
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 12:50 am Does anyone else want to whack this entitled, narcissistic wanker into oblivion or is it just me? Entitled wankers (invariably male) should be called out wherever they show their arsehole entitlement.
Well, assuming this is in reference to me [though she supposedly has me on ignore] it's back to this:accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 12:55 am Or is it an entitled spambot? Which of the two is more detestable?
Pick three:
1]
What, in my opinion, is always most intriguing about these, at times, insufferable is not what they argue but the way they bully those who dare not to share their own insufferable dogmas.
So, perhaps, someday she might finally confront whatever or whoever turned her into this Satyrean caricature. Something has clearly pissed her off in life. Something that brings her into places like this in order to vent. And to accumulate scapegoats.
It seems [to me] that she needs to make scapegoats of those she construes to be part of whatever she is outraged about. Men, let's guess. But how did it come about?
Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore?
2]
What, in my opinion, is always most intriguing about these, at times, insufferable is not what they argue but the way they bully those who dare not to share their own insufferable dogmas.
So, perhaps, someday she might finally confront whatever or whoever turned her into this Satyrean caricature. Something has clearly pissed her off in life. Something that brings her into places like this in order to vent. And to accumulate scapegoats.
It seems [to me] that she needs to make scapegoats of those she construes to be part of whatever she is outraged about. Men, let's guess. But how did it come about?
Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore?
3]
What, in my opinion, is always most intriguing about these, at times, insufferable is not what they argue but the way they bully those who dare not to share their own insufferable dogmas.
So, perhaps, someday she might finally confront whatever or whoever turned her into this Satyrean caricature. Something has clearly pissed her off in life. Something that brings her into places like this in order to vent. And to accumulate scapegoats.
It seems [to me] that she needs to make scapegoats of those she construes to be part of whatever she is outraged about. Men, let's guess. But how did it come about?
Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore?
Re: Quote of the day
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"Hard times build determination and inner strength. Through them we can also come to appreciate the uselessness of anger. Instead of getting angry, nurture a deep caring and respect for troublemakers because by creating such trying circumstances they provide us with invaluable opportunities to practice tolerance and patience. [...] I defeat my enemies when I make them my friends." - some dude with a ruined reputation
"Hard times build determination and inner strength. Through them we can also come to appreciate the uselessness of anger. Instead of getting angry, nurture a deep caring and respect for troublemakers because by creating such trying circumstances they provide us with invaluable opportunities to practice tolerance and patience. [...] I defeat my enemies when I make them my friends." - some dude with a ruined reputation
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accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Gosh. Whatever would make you think that?? Does anyone else post here? You are a pathetic, self-important, pompous, entitled OCD **nt of the highest order. You can send me a bitcoin for the psychoanalysis.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Okay, okay #3....accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 2:11 amGosh. Whatever would make you think that?? Does anyone else post here? You are a pathetic, self-important, pompous, entitled OCD **nt of the highest order. You can send me a bitcoin for the psychoanalysis.
What, in my opinion, is always most intriguing about these, at times, insufferable blowhards is not what they argue but the way they bully those who dare not to share their own insufferable dogmas.
So, perhaps, someday she might finally confront whatever or whoever turned her into this Satyrean caricature. Something has clearly pissed her off in life. Something that brings her into places like this in order to vent. And to accumulate scapegoats.
It seems [to me] that she needs to make scapegoats of those she construes to be part of whatever she is outraged about. Men, I'm guessing. But how did it come about?
Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore?
...it is then.
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accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Awww, poor widdle entitled man, says he's being 'bullied' by the mean lady. What next? Are you going to weep and wail and report me to the authorities for trying to 'genocide' you?iambiguous wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 2:48 amOkay, okay #3....accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 2:11 amGosh. Whatever would make you think that?? Does anyone else post here? You are a pathetic, self-important, pompous, entitled OCD **nt of the highest order. You can send me a bitcoin for the psychoanalysis.
What, in my opinion, is always most intriguing about these, at times, insufferable blowhards is not what they argue but the way they bully those who dare not to share their own insufferable dogmas.
So, perhaps, someday she might finally confront whatever or whoever turned her into this Satyrean caricature. Something has clearly pissed her off in life. Something that brings her into places like this in order to vent. And to accumulate scapegoats.
It seems [to me] that she needs to make scapegoats of those she construes to be part of whatever she is outraged about. Men, I'm guessing. But how did it come about?
Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore?
...it is then.
The lack of self awareness is astonishing but the parallels are mind-blowing.
This was a perfectly usable thread, commented on by most of the forum, but for the past 212 pages and more than two years you have managed to hijack it entirely for yourself with your continuous stream of self-absorbed spam, shoving everyone else out of the way. The bully is you dear. You need to stop now or the men in white coats will be coming with a straitjacket.
Last edited by accelafine on Tue Jun 03, 2025 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Did Satyr put you up to this? On the other hand, sometimes I can't tell the two of you apart.accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 4:42 amAwww, poor widdle entited man, says he's being 'bullied' by the mean lady. What next? Are you going to weep and wail and report me to the authorities for trying to 'genocide' you?iambiguous wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 2:48 amOkay, okay #3....accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 2:11 am
Gosh. Whatever would make you think that?? Does anyone else post here? You are a pathetic, self-important, pompous, entitled OCD **nt of the highest order. You can send me a bitcoin for the psychoanalysis.
What, in my opinion, is always most intriguing about these, at times, insufferable blowhards is not what they argue but the way they bully those who dare not to share their own insufferable dogmas.
So, perhaps, someday she might finally confront whatever or whoever turned her into this Satyrean caricature. Something has clearly pissed her off in life. Something that brings her into places like this in order to vent. And to accumulate scapegoats.
It seems [to me] that she needs to make scapegoats of those she construes to be part of whatever she is outraged about. Men, I'm guessing. But how did it come about?
Wouldn't that be far more fascinating to explore?
...it is then.
The lack of self awareness is astonishing but the parallels are mind-blowing.
This was a perfectly usable thread, commented on by most of the forum, but for the past 212 pages and more than two years you have managed to hijack it entirely for yourself with your continuous stream of self-absorbed spam, shoving everyone else out of the way. The bully is you dear. You need to stop now or the men in white coats will be coming with a straitjacket.
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accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Aww, have a cry you vulnerable, marginalised little pet 
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
You do what you have to do in order to do what you think you have to do. And then others can focus on what you do or on why you think you have to do it. Or on the relationship between the two.
And then there are those who think they can understand this relationship. And then there are those who think they can judge this relationship.
I’m not one of those. I can only describe these relationships as I see them unfolding up on the screen…and then describe my own personal reaction to what I see.
Here I see a working class daredevil willing to risk his life doing stunts in a traveling fair. All for the entertainment of the local yokels hoping to be entertained. In other words, if perchance the stuntmen fuck up and there is a crash.
But then he bumps into Romina. Then he finds out that he has a son. Then he decides he wants to be a part of his son’s life. But then he realizes that his new minimum wage job won’t really allow that. So then he has to come up with another way to make the dough instead. And that’s before he gets to the part involving Kofi.
I think at least in small part this film involves a world in which so many folks are forced to support themselves and their families on or around the minimum wage. Which, over and over and over again, is really not a living wage at all. So: Is this a just and civilized social contract? Or should everyone be judged solely on their capacity to rise above all that and stake out their claim to more?
But then 50 minutes into the film Luke is dead. Now it’s a whole different story. A whole different set of relationships…a whole different set of choices. Crooked cops, for example.
And then 15 years later another story still. This one in part about the repercussions of the choices that were made back then.
Like father like son? What goes around comes around?
The method Luke and Robin use to rob the banks was the actual method ‘Friday Night Robber’ Carl Gugasian successfully used for over 30 years.
Two months before filming, Andrij Parekh, who shot Blue Valentine (2010), refused to do the film largely because of the Globe of Death stunt in the opening. According to Derek Cianfrance, Parekh spoke to him on the phone saying he refused to do the film because he had dreamed that he would be killed during filming. This nearly became a reality, as during the filming of the stunt, cinematographer Sean Bobbitt was himself nearly killed; luckily he was only knocked unconscious when a motorcycle landed on top of him during filming the second take of the stunt inside the cage. At the time, he was wearing heavy protection gear and a helmet.
According to director Derek Cianfrance, he met with Ryan Gosling at his agent’s home in 2007 while working on Blue Valentine (2010). He asked Ryan Gosling (paraphrased), “You’ve done so much already, what is there in life you haven’t done that you want to do?” Gosling responded that he has always wanted to rob a bank. “What has kept you from robbing a bank?” Being arrested. “And how would you go about robbing a bank?” Ryan Gosling described robbing a bank on a motorcycle because it is fast and agile, and the helmet would conceal his identity, then stashing the motorcycle in the back of a truck because the police would be looking for the motorcycle. Cianfrance responded that he was actually writing a screenplay about a bank robber in exactly that way, and he felt that Gosling was meant to play this role. IMDb
The Place Beyond the Pines
Romina: Do you remember my name?
Luke: Romina. I liked to call you Ro.
Here we go...
Luke: Do you remember me?
Malena [Romina’s mom, holding a baby]: Yes, I remember you
Luke: Who is that little guy?
Malena: He’s yours. You wanna hold him?
Here we go...
Luke [to Romina]: Anything you want to tell me? Anything you think I might want to know before I leave here…forever and I never come back?
Yo, Supannika!
Robin: There are other things that could be done, man.
Luke: Like what?
Robin: Well, we could rob a bank.
Luke: You’re full of shit.
Robin: No, I’m not full of shit. I’ve done it four times myself.
I once robbed banks myself. But then I'd wake up.
Robin [to Luke]: Got a kid? You wanna provide for that kid? You want to edge out your competition? You gotta do that using your skill set. And your skill set? Very unique. So, what do you say?
Luke: Go fuck yourself.
Robin: Well, good luck supporting your family on minimum wage.
If only until the workers of the world unite.
Luke: He’s my son and I should be around him. I wasn’t around my Dad and look at the fuckin’ way I turned out. Look, I wanna take care of you. I wanna take care of my son. That’s my job. Let me do my job.
Romina: How you gonna take care of us?
Luke: Don’t say it like that.
Romina: But how you gonna take care of me?
Luke: Don’t…
[he sighs, shaking his head]
Luke: Don’t talk down to me.
Romia: It’s a question. I’m not talking down to you.
Luke: I’ll…I’ll find a way to do it.
I wonder which way that was?
Luke [to Romina]: You don’t love me, you don’t like me…I fuckin’ get it. I’m a piece of shit, OK? I’m still his father, I can give him stuff. I got this for him, just give it to him. Tell him it’s from me.
Try that yourself sometime.
Deluca: [to Romina]: Look, you assume that I have a warrant and I’ll assume that your mother has papers.
You know, back before Trump and MAGA.
Avery [he puts the money the cops stole from Romina’s house on Chief Weirzbowski’s table]: I should have brought this to you sooner, I apologize. This is recovered from a house during a search…
Chief: No no no no. Wait a minute Cross.
Avery: That’s just the small fraction of what’s goin’ on…
Chief: Wait a minute Cross. Don’t say another word.
Avery: What do you mean?
Chief: No no no, don’t say another word.
[the chief leans forward in his chair and shakes his head]
Chief: What’d you expect me to do with this?
Avery: You’re joking right?
Chief: This is shit!
Avery: Chief!
Chief: This aint’ my problem, alright? This is your problem.
Avery: This is our problem of the fucking police department and I’m bringing it to your attention, because that’s what I should fucking do!
Chief: Oh yeah, is that right?
Avery: Yeah!
Chief: Is that what you should do? Rat out other fuckin’ cops! This is un-fuckin-believable, alright?
[the Chief picks up the money with a tissue and throws it at Avery]
Chief: Get this shit outta here!
Let's get the shit outta here too.
Bill [after hearing the tape]: You showed this to I.A.?
Avery: Of course not. Handing it to you on a silver platter.
Bill: Got any idea what this means? Are you ready to do it?
[Avery nods his head]
Bill: Are you really son? Are you really ready? ‘Cause they’re gonna fuckin’ tear you in half.
When he still balks at Avery’s demands, Avery threatens to take it to the press.
Bill [to Avery]: I’ll make you an assistant DA. But I’ll never shake your fucking hand!
And then up on the screen: 15 YEARS LATER
Robin [passes Jason a newspaper clipping and points to a photo]: That guy’s your Dad. That’s him there.
[Robin points to another photo]
Robin: And that’s the pig there, the one that pegged him.
Jason: What happened to him?
Robin: Who, the cop? Forget about him, man. Don’t start there, I’ll show you good things. I’ll show you good things…
Take a wild ass guess.
Robin: you are standing right where your Dad used to stand and we used to talk. He was a good guy, your Dad.
[Jason picks up some sunglasses]
Robin: Oh wow. Yeah, those glasses. I haven’t seen them in a long time, they’re his, those goofy glasses.
Jason: These were his?
Robin: Yeah. You keep those. He would have wanted you to have them.
Jason: Was he good at anything?
Robin: Yeah. He was the best motorcycle rider I’ve ever seen in my life. Best.
Drawn and quartered perhaps but not fractured and fragmented.
Benny: What the hell happened to you?
Jason: Yo, I need your help.
Benny: Yeah, man, all right. What you need help for, man?
Jason: I need a gun.
Either that or a bazooka?
Jason [to Avery]: Get on your knees. GET ON YOUR FUCKING KNEES!
And the equivalent of that here, of course.
Jason: How much do you want for it?
Mr. Anthony: I was thinking I need five.
[Jason climbs onto the bike]
Mr. Anthony: You ever ridden one of these things before?
[Jason just starts the bike and rides away]
Some are born to be wild, others to be mild.
And then there are those who think they can understand this relationship. And then there are those who think they can judge this relationship.
I’m not one of those. I can only describe these relationships as I see them unfolding up on the screen…and then describe my own personal reaction to what I see.
Here I see a working class daredevil willing to risk his life doing stunts in a traveling fair. All for the entertainment of the local yokels hoping to be entertained. In other words, if perchance the stuntmen fuck up and there is a crash.
But then he bumps into Romina. Then he finds out that he has a son. Then he decides he wants to be a part of his son’s life. But then he realizes that his new minimum wage job won’t really allow that. So then he has to come up with another way to make the dough instead. And that’s before he gets to the part involving Kofi.
I think at least in small part this film involves a world in which so many folks are forced to support themselves and their families on or around the minimum wage. Which, over and over and over again, is really not a living wage at all. So: Is this a just and civilized social contract? Or should everyone be judged solely on their capacity to rise above all that and stake out their claim to more?
But then 50 minutes into the film Luke is dead. Now it’s a whole different story. A whole different set of relationships…a whole different set of choices. Crooked cops, for example.
And then 15 years later another story still. This one in part about the repercussions of the choices that were made back then.
Like father like son? What goes around comes around?
The method Luke and Robin use to rob the banks was the actual method ‘Friday Night Robber’ Carl Gugasian successfully used for over 30 years.
Two months before filming, Andrij Parekh, who shot Blue Valentine (2010), refused to do the film largely because of the Globe of Death stunt in the opening. According to Derek Cianfrance, Parekh spoke to him on the phone saying he refused to do the film because he had dreamed that he would be killed during filming. This nearly became a reality, as during the filming of the stunt, cinematographer Sean Bobbitt was himself nearly killed; luckily he was only knocked unconscious when a motorcycle landed on top of him during filming the second take of the stunt inside the cage. At the time, he was wearing heavy protection gear and a helmet.
According to director Derek Cianfrance, he met with Ryan Gosling at his agent’s home in 2007 while working on Blue Valentine (2010). He asked Ryan Gosling (paraphrased), “You’ve done so much already, what is there in life you haven’t done that you want to do?” Gosling responded that he has always wanted to rob a bank. “What has kept you from robbing a bank?” Being arrested. “And how would you go about robbing a bank?” Ryan Gosling described robbing a bank on a motorcycle because it is fast and agile, and the helmet would conceal his identity, then stashing the motorcycle in the back of a truck because the police would be looking for the motorcycle. Cianfrance responded that he was actually writing a screenplay about a bank robber in exactly that way, and he felt that Gosling was meant to play this role. IMDb
The Place Beyond the Pines
Romina: Do you remember my name?
Luke: Romina. I liked to call you Ro.
Here we go...
Luke: Do you remember me?
Malena [Romina’s mom, holding a baby]: Yes, I remember you
Luke: Who is that little guy?
Malena: He’s yours. You wanna hold him?
Here we go...
Luke [to Romina]: Anything you want to tell me? Anything you think I might want to know before I leave here…forever and I never come back?
Yo, Supannika!
Robin: There are other things that could be done, man.
Luke: Like what?
Robin: Well, we could rob a bank.
Luke: You’re full of shit.
Robin: No, I’m not full of shit. I’ve done it four times myself.
I once robbed banks myself. But then I'd wake up.
Robin [to Luke]: Got a kid? You wanna provide for that kid? You want to edge out your competition? You gotta do that using your skill set. And your skill set? Very unique. So, what do you say?
Luke: Go fuck yourself.
Robin: Well, good luck supporting your family on minimum wage.
If only until the workers of the world unite.
Luke: He’s my son and I should be around him. I wasn’t around my Dad and look at the fuckin’ way I turned out. Look, I wanna take care of you. I wanna take care of my son. That’s my job. Let me do my job.
Romina: How you gonna take care of us?
Luke: Don’t say it like that.
Romina: But how you gonna take care of me?
Luke: Don’t…
[he sighs, shaking his head]
Luke: Don’t talk down to me.
Romia: It’s a question. I’m not talking down to you.
Luke: I’ll…I’ll find a way to do it.
I wonder which way that was?
Luke [to Romina]: You don’t love me, you don’t like me…I fuckin’ get it. I’m a piece of shit, OK? I’m still his father, I can give him stuff. I got this for him, just give it to him. Tell him it’s from me.
Try that yourself sometime.
Deluca: [to Romina]: Look, you assume that I have a warrant and I’ll assume that your mother has papers.
You know, back before Trump and MAGA.
Avery [he puts the money the cops stole from Romina’s house on Chief Weirzbowski’s table]: I should have brought this to you sooner, I apologize. This is recovered from a house during a search…
Chief: No no no no. Wait a minute Cross.
Avery: That’s just the small fraction of what’s goin’ on…
Chief: Wait a minute Cross. Don’t say another word.
Avery: What do you mean?
Chief: No no no, don’t say another word.
[the chief leans forward in his chair and shakes his head]
Chief: What’d you expect me to do with this?
Avery: You’re joking right?
Chief: This is shit!
Avery: Chief!
Chief: This aint’ my problem, alright? This is your problem.
Avery: This is our problem of the fucking police department and I’m bringing it to your attention, because that’s what I should fucking do!
Chief: Oh yeah, is that right?
Avery: Yeah!
Chief: Is that what you should do? Rat out other fuckin’ cops! This is un-fuckin-believable, alright?
[the Chief picks up the money with a tissue and throws it at Avery]
Chief: Get this shit outta here!
Let's get the shit outta here too.
Bill [after hearing the tape]: You showed this to I.A.?
Avery: Of course not. Handing it to you on a silver platter.
Bill: Got any idea what this means? Are you ready to do it?
[Avery nods his head]
Bill: Are you really son? Are you really ready? ‘Cause they’re gonna fuckin’ tear you in half.
When he still balks at Avery’s demands, Avery threatens to take it to the press.
Bill [to Avery]: I’ll make you an assistant DA. But I’ll never shake your fucking hand!
And then up on the screen: 15 YEARS LATER
Robin [passes Jason a newspaper clipping and points to a photo]: That guy’s your Dad. That’s him there.
[Robin points to another photo]
Robin: And that’s the pig there, the one that pegged him.
Jason: What happened to him?
Robin: Who, the cop? Forget about him, man. Don’t start there, I’ll show you good things. I’ll show you good things…
Take a wild ass guess.
Robin: you are standing right where your Dad used to stand and we used to talk. He was a good guy, your Dad.
[Jason picks up some sunglasses]
Robin: Oh wow. Yeah, those glasses. I haven’t seen them in a long time, they’re his, those goofy glasses.
Jason: These were his?
Robin: Yeah. You keep those. He would have wanted you to have them.
Jason: Was he good at anything?
Robin: Yeah. He was the best motorcycle rider I’ve ever seen in my life. Best.
Drawn and quartered perhaps but not fractured and fragmented.
Benny: What the hell happened to you?
Jason: Yo, I need your help.
Benny: Yeah, man, all right. What you need help for, man?
Jason: I need a gun.
Either that or a bazooka?
Jason [to Avery]: Get on your knees. GET ON YOUR FUCKING KNEES!
And the equivalent of that here, of course.
Jason: How much do you want for it?
Mr. Anthony: I was thinking I need five.
[Jason climbs onto the bike]
Mr. Anthony: You ever ridden one of these things before?
[Jason just starts the bike and rides away]
Some are born to be wild, others to be mild.
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accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
You've completely hijacked at least two perfectly useful threads to massage your own ego and satisfy your deranged OCD fetish. That shouldn't be allowed on a forum. You are a complete arsehole. You even get shitty when the replacement 'quote' thread gets commented on, and immediately post on this one to ensure it remains 'above' the other one. It's pathetic. You need to get onto your shrink to change your meds. Your publicly-displayed insanity is offensive.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Unless, of course, she's wrong.
And just for the record...
accelafine started her own quote thread: viewtopic.php?t=43839
Only the last time she used it was April 15th.
So what on Earth is she doing yammering on and on about this thread. You'd think there was a rule here whereby everyone was actually required to read my posts.
And just for the record...
accelafine started her own quote thread: viewtopic.php?t=43839
Only the last time she used it was April 15th.
So what on Earth is she doing yammering on and on about this thread. You'd think there was a rule here whereby everyone was actually required to read my posts.