The impact of democracy on the nuclear family

[godelian]

Buddy, I've lived in heavily Muslim countries. Don't tell me lies. You can't fool me.

There are poor and rich Muslims. You are confounding both. You can only reason from the viewpoint of someone of the lower income classes. It is you who are fooling yourself.

There are no poor and rich countries. There are only poor and rich individuals. A rich Muslim has similar economic views as a rich Chinese. These things are mostly determined by income class.

You see, I get along very well with a rich Emirati or a rich Brasilian because we have similar financial situations. I don't get along with poor people in the West because not only we have different life strategies but on top of that these people are very arrogant and very entitled. They've got nothing to show for but they know everything better.

If you are a poor and destitute westerner, you are substantially less respected than a wealthy Saudi. He gets invited to the reception but you don't. You look down on Muslims, but do you even have money? If you don't, then everybody else looks down on you!

[Immanuel Can]

Buddy, I've lived in heavily Muslim countries. Don't tell me lies. You can't fool me.

There are poor and rich Muslims.

Those with oil, and those without. Yes. But it has zero to do with democracy, or, for that matter, with Islam either.

But why do you think Muslims are fleeing their own countries for the West? Do you see millions of Westerners banging down the gates to be admitted to Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Iran, and Indonesia? Why not?

[godelian]

Those with oil, and those without. Yes. But it has zero to do with democracy, or, for that matter, with Islam either.

Exactly.

There are very wealthy Egyptians who are invited to the party because they have money while there are truckloads of Swiss who are not invited to the party because they do not have money.

So, indeed, what does that have to do with religion?

Religion does not explain at all why a particular individual will be invited to the reception.

But why do you think Muslims are fleeing their own countries for the West? Do you see millions of Westerners banging down the gates to be admitted to Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Iran, and Indonesia? Why not?

War.

Why were Europeans running away and trying to get into Spain during WWII?

They were banging down the gates of Switzerland. If they had money, they were allowed in. Otherwise, they had to turn around and try elsewhere.

Even today, the Swiss do take in refugees from war zones, but only if they have money.

I am at the gym now. I am good friends with some Syrian refugees here. They fled to SE Asia. They have money. If you are wealthy, you are not really a "refugee". You just sit out the war in a different country.

You see, you want to attribute differences to religion, but when push comes to shove, it is your money that counts. You will be considered inferior because you have no money and not because of your religion.

I utterly despise western people who think that they are better than anybody else while they clearly have no money. Seriously, it is you the loser and not that wealthy Muslim.

White supremacists are even more stupid. They are dumb as fuck, they have no money, but they still believe that they are better because they are white. What a bunch of incorrigible losers!

[Gary Childress]

The adulterous female gets stuck supporting the child at her expense but the equally adulterous male does not. How is that fair?

After sex, it is the female who gets pregnant. The male does not. How is that "fair"?

Seriously, why does a sexual act lead to pregnant females and not to pregnant males? Isn't that outrageously "unequal"? Aren't we all supposed to be "equal"? Why are there even males and females? That is the root cause of inequality!

Well it's not fair to the women and children involved but that doesn't seem to be your concern. And I suppose if they did change the laws where you are, you'd just flee to another country where men don't have to pay for their mistakes. Best of luck. My mistakes have usually caught up to me, maybe you'll do better. You're maybe not a loser like me. Enjoy your day.

[godelian]

Well it's not fair to the women and children involved but that doesn't seem to be your concern.

A sperm donor also does not support his children. In your view, that is also unfair.

And I suppose if they did change the laws where you are, you'd just flee to another country where men don't have to pay for their mistakes.

I do not need to "flee" here. I just prefer to be here. People naturally go where they are treated best. Furthermore, it may or may not be a mistake to do a one-night stand with a woman, but no man expects or intends to raise that woman's child. Only in the West, they believe this kind of imbecile things. But then again, the next financial crisis seems to be just around the corner. I'd love to see the West crash and burn!

Best of luck. My mistakes have usually caught up to me, maybe you'll do better. You're maybe not a loser like me.

People choose to be losers. Their entire life seems to be a mistake. If your beliefs turn you into a loser, then it may be time to change your beliefs.

[Gary Childress]

Well it's not fair to the women and children involved but that doesn't seem to be your concern.

A sperm donor also does not support his children. In your view, that is also unfair.

It's entirely the woman's decision if she wants to go with a sperm donor and that's understood up front. The male is exempt under that condition.

Getting a female pregnant through normal intercourse is a choice of both the male and female (unless it's rape--another, worse matter altogether). It's a risk that two people take together. That ought to be understood upfront also.

But you are not alone out there. There are many young men in your situation and some make the choice to avoid financial obligations too. I suppose life is a crap shoot in many ways especially where laws are lax for some. What can anyone say? The world goes on with or without us. So maybe it all washes even in the end.

[godelian]

It's entirely the woman's decision if she wants to go with a sperm donor and that's understood up front. The male is exempt under that condition.

The conditions under which "the male is exempt", is different depending on the moral system.

Furthermore, why would a government spent time and effort running after males who are not interested in dealing with a female from a one-night stand? You see, the government can try to enforce whatever they want, but all enforcement comes with a blood tax, to be paid in dead bodies. The government must pay the blood tax or else will be made to pay it. They already have to pay other blood taxes for other enforcement actions. So, I am not sure that they are willing to pay particularly much of a blood tax for this type of enforcement. It is not easy to impose this kind of of rules on non-western populations. The response is more likely to be violent. There is that widespread misconception that violence would be the problem. That is wrong. Violence is almost always the solution to the problem.

[Gary Childress]

It's entirely the woman's decision if she wants to go with a sperm donor and that's understood up front. The male is exempt under that condition.

The conditions under which "the male is exempt", is different depending on the moral system.

Furthermore, why would a government spent time and effort running after males who are not interested in dealing with a female from a one-night stand? You see, the government can try to enforce whatever they want, but all enforcement comes with a blood tax, to be paid in dead bodies. The government must pay the blood tax or else will be made to pay it. They already have to pay other blood taxes for other enforcement actions. So, I am not sure that they are willing to pay particularly much of a blood tax for this type of enforcement. It is not easy to impose this kind of of rules on non-western populations. The response is more likely to be violent. There is that widespread misconception that violence would be the problem. That is wrong. Violence is almost always the solution to the problem.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Violence is not a good way to solve problems, in my opinion.

Of course, every circumstance is different. You know your's, I don't. If it's not too serious, I suppose sometimes it comes down in the end to us accepting our own mistakes. Certainly, greater villains than us seem to cheat justice sometimes. And we probably all make mistakes that we weren't aware of at the time we made them. Such is life and there but for the grace of God, fate (or whatever) go I, as the saying goes.

\_('_')_/

[Immanuel Can]

Those with oil, and those without. Yes. But it has zero to do with democracy, or, for that matter, with Islam either.

Exactly.

Well, then...you don't even have a selfish, let alone an altruistic or socialistic reason to prefer Islam as an orientation point for "the nuclear family." It has nothing at all to recommend it over the alternatives, it seems.

But why do you think Muslims are fleeing their own countries for the West? Do you see millions of Westerners banging down the gates to be admitted to Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Iran, and Indonesia? Why not?

War.

There's war in Lebanon, caused by Hezbollah, and in Gaza, caused by Hamas -- both Muslim; but not in Syria...except the one they occasionally make on Israel, or in Turkey. There's none in Iran right now, and hasn't been since the Iraq Sunni-Shia war, which was an Islamic inter-hate war. Sudan's ongoing internal strife is being caused by Islamists, as are Ghana's and Nigeria's. And Indonesia doesn't have a war right now. So also Chad, Cote D'Ivoire, Cameroon, Burkina Faso, and so on... It's not war that's making migrants flood out of these countries...it's what Islam has turned their nations into.

And where is there a similar flood of Westerners, all desperate to get into Djibouti, or Egypt, or Malaysia? Your own people are telling you how they feel about life under Islam, because they're getting out. Nobody wants to live where Islam rules, except the rich Muslim oil elites and clerics, who fatten their guts on the oppression of their people.

[godelian]

It's entirely the woman's decision if she wants to go with a sperm donor and that's understood up front. The male is exempt under that condition.

The conditions under which "the male is exempt", is different depending on the moral system.

Furthermore, why would a government spent time and effort running after males who are not interested in dealing with a female from a one-night stand? You see, the government can try to enforce whatever they want, but all enforcement comes with a blood tax, to be paid in dead bodies. The government must pay the blood tax or else will be made to pay it. They already have to pay other blood taxes for other enforcement actions. So, I am not sure that they are willing to pay particularly much of a blood tax for this type of enforcement. It is not easy to impose this kind of of rules on non-western populations. The response is more likely to be violent. There is that widespread misconception that violence would be the problem. That is wrong. Violence is almost always the solution to the problem.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Violence is not a good way to solve problems, in my opinion.

Of course, every circumstance is different. You know your's, I don't. If it's not too serious, I suppose sometimes it comes down in the end to us accepting our own mistakes. Certainly, greater villains than us seem to cheat justice sometimes. And we probably all make mistakes that we weren't aware of at the time we made them. Such is life and there but for the grace of God, fate (or whatever) go I, as the saying goes.

\_('_')_/

Well, nobody is asking me to pay for a mistake. But then again, I would not pay anyway.

[godelian]

Those with oil, and those without. Yes. But it has zero to do with democracy, or, for that matter, with Islam either.

Exactly.

Well, then...you don't even have a selfish, let alone an altruistic or socialistic reason to prefer Islam as an orientation point for "the nuclear family." It has nothing at all to recommend it over the alternatives, it seems.

But why do you think Muslims are fleeing their own countries for the West? Do you see millions of Westerners banging down the gates to be admitted to Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Iran, and Indonesia? Why not?

War.

There's war in Lebanon, caused by Hezbollah, and in Gaza, caused by Hamas -- both Muslim; but not in Syria...except the one they occasionally make on Israel, or in Turkey. There's none in Iran right now, and hasn't been since the Iraq Sunni-Shia war, which was an Islamic inter-hate war. Sudan's ongoing internal strife is being caused by Islamists, as are Ghana's and Nigeria's. And Indonesia doesn't have a war right now. So also Chad, Cote D'Ivoire, Cameroon, Burkina Faso, and so on... It's not war that's making migrants flood out of these countries...it's what Islam has turned their nations into.

And where is there a similar flood of Westerners, all desperate to get into Djibouti, or Egypt, or Malaysia? Your own people are telling you how they feel about life under Islam, because they're getting out. Nobody wants to live where Islam rules, except the rich Muslim oil elites and clerics, who fatten their guts on the oppression of their people.

Your conclusions are ridiculous. When the Catholics and the Protestants were fighting their 30-year war in Germany, a third of the population died. Does that in itself justify an imbecile word salad about their religious views? No historical text would approach the subject like that, because it would be considered laughable. You are blissfully unaware of how laughable your own word salads are. How successful have you personally been in achieving anything in your own life? I cannot imagine that someone like you has achieved anything at all.

[Immanuel Can]

Exactly.

Well, then...you don't even have a selfish, let alone an altruistic or socialistic reason to prefer Islam as an orientation point for "the nuclear family." It has nothing at all to recommend it over the alternatives, it seems.

War.

There's war in Lebanon, caused by Hezbollah, and in Gaza, caused by Hamas -- both Muslim; but not in Syria...except the one they occasionally make on Israel, or in Turkey. There's none in Iran right now, and hasn't been since the Iraq Sunni-Shia war, which was an Islamic inter-hate war. Sudan's ongoing internal strife is being caused by Islamists, as are Ghana's and Nigeria's. And Indonesia doesn't have a war right now. So also Chad, Cote D'Ivoire, Cameroon, Burkina Faso, and so on... It's not war that's making migrants flood out of these countries...it's what Islam has turned their nations into.

And where is there a similar flood of Westerners, all desperate to get into Djibouti, or Egypt, or Malaysia? Your own people are telling you how they feel about life under Islam, because they're getting out. Nobody wants to live where Islam rules, except the rich Muslim oil elites and clerics, who fatten their guts on the oppression of their people.

Your conclusions are ridiculous.

They're not "conclusions." They're just facts. You can see the migrants every day, on your own TV. There's no disputing it. Muslims are fleeing the world Muslims have made, opting for the West.

So if anybody's concluding anything, it's the Muslims who are voting with their feet, not me.

[godelian]

They're not "conclusions." They're just facts. You can see the migrants every day, on your own TV. There's no disputing it. Muslims are fleeing the world Muslims have made, opting for the West.

So if anybody's concluding anything, it's the Muslims who are voting with their feet, not me.

You are a born idiot, aren't you? If you see a refugee with red hair, are you going to conclude that he is a refugee because of his red hair? Seriously, you are dumb as fuck.

[Immanuel Can]

They're not "conclusions." They're just facts. You can see the migrants every day, on your own TV. There's no disputing it. Muslims are fleeing the world Muslims have made, opting for the West.

So if anybody's concluding anything, it's the Muslims who are voting with their feet, not me.

You are a born idiot, aren't you? If you see a refugee with red hair, are you going to conclude that he is a refugee because of his red hair? Seriously, you are dumb as fuck.

Brilliant argument. Your only problem is that it has nothing to do with me, or with what I say: it's your own people, not willing to live under Sharia, tired of being ground down by your own imams, looking for some freedom and opportunity in the democratic West you hate.

Don't blame me. Blame yourselves.

[godelian]

Brilliant argument. Your only problem is that it has nothing to do with me, or with what I say: it's your own people, not willing to live under Sharia, tired of being ground down by your own imams, looking for some freedom and opportunity in the democratic West you hate.

Don't blame me. Blame yourselves.

I don't have to blame anybody for anything. I am stinking rich. Do you hear me complaining? Allah gave me a lot of stuff. So, I am very grateful to him.

Concerning "your own people", there is no such thing. I typically don't give a flying fuck about other people. The central question is always: What's in it for me?

I find Islam a genius theory. It works like a charm.

Furthermore, I spit, pee, and shit on most unbelievers, if only, because I spit, pee, and shit on most people. Seriously, what do you have to show for? Nothing? Just a pile of imbecile word salads? Come on, show me something that I can respect!