accelafine wrote: ↑Wed May 07, 2025 12:42 am
So eye witnesses don't count. A court of law would beg to differ.
A young Yazidi woman, Fawzia Sido, has made shocking revelations of her horrific captivity under ISIS. She and other prisoners were forced to eat baby meat.
Sido was taken from her home when she was just 11 years old during the Islamic State’s attack on her hometown of Sinjar, Iraq in 2014.
While speaking to The Sun, Sido said that they were given a meal consisting rice and meat after days of starvation. The fighters did not inform them that the meat was from babies until they ate. “We were so hungry, we just ate,” she said, recalling the horrifying moment they realised the truth.
"They cooked rice and meat for us, and we ate despite the strange taste because we were so hungry. Afterwards, we all felt sick. Then, the IS fighters revealed their horrific act," Sido said.
Sido was one among the thousands of Yazidi women and children kidnapped by ISIS. Many of them were sold into slavery and forced into inhumane conditions. Her time in captivity ended after years of of violence and exploitation.
She was released from Gaza following a secret mission by Israel, the US and Iraq. According to Reuters, the rescue involved close cooperation between Israel's military and the US Embassy.
How does any of this justify America (and even Russia) creating Israel as a raptor phoenix from the ashes of Shoah, in Arab land, and America and allies (my worse than useless country, the UK, which lost 2 small wars concurrently) precipitating the holocaust of the Yazidi, and Assyrian and other Christians, by removing Iraq's strong man. generations later? And then signalling impotence from Obama onwards to Russia vis-à-vis Syria? Much as Clinton did to the Hutu in Rwanda. In a long run of foreign policy catastrophe since the creation of Israel and the Nakba.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Tue May 20, 2025 4:26 pm
How does any of this justify America (and even Russia) creating Israel as a raptor phoenix from the ashes of Shoah, in Arab land, and America and allies (my worse than useless country, the UK, which lost 2 small wars concurrently) precipitating the holocaust of the Yazidi, and Assyrian and other Christians, by removing Iraq's strong man. generations later? And then signalling impotence from Obama onwards to Russia vis-à-vis Syria? Much as Clinton did to the Hutu in Rwanda. In a long run of foreign policy catastrophe since the creation of Israel and the Nakba.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Tue May 20, 2025 4:26 pm
How does any of this justify America (and even Russia) creating Israel as a raptor phoenix from the ashes of Shoah, in Arab land, and America and allies (my worse than useless country, the UK, which lost 2 small wars concurrently) precipitating the holocaust of the Yazidi, and Assyrian and other Christians, by removing Iraq's strong man. generations later? And then signalling impotence from Obama onwards to Russia vis-à-vis Syria? Much as Clinton did to the Hutu in Rwanda. In a long run of foreign policy catastrophe since the creation of Israel and the Nakba.
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Tue May 20, 2025 4:26 pm
How does any of this justify America (and even Russia) creating Israel as a raptor phoenix from the ashes of Shoah, in Arab land, and America and allies (my worse than useless country, the UK, which lost 2 small wars concurrently) precipitating the holocaust of the Yazidi, and Assyrian and other Christians, by removing Iraq's strong man. generations later? And then signalling impotence from Obama onwards to Russia vis-à-vis Syria? Much as Clinton did to the Hutu in Rwanda. In a long run of foreign policy catastrophe since the creation of Israel and the Nakba.
I wonder if we should even be talking about Nakba here in the forum . I fear that discussing it other than prayerfully in hushed voices would be inappropriate.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
Do you mean that Netanyahu has personally shouldered the responsibility that truly belongs to the Israeli people, and also to the powers that established Israel in 1948? And also , if we go far enough back into the past, to the very roots of the Holocaust in northern Europe?
To me, this is a pregnant and novel idea. I want to ask what can guide us but sympathy for the underdog, in all cases and at all times. I understand that the times of the OT prophets were a great leap forward in the known world, when the intention became momentous. So I am going to paste Micah's text again
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
Do you mean that Netanyahu has personally shouldered the responsibility that truly belongs to the Israeli people, and also to the powers that established Israel in 1948? And also , if we go far enough back into the past, to the very roots of the Holocaust in northern Europe?
To me, this is a pregnant and novel idea. I want to ask what can guide us but sympathy for the underdog, in all cases and at all times. I understand that the times of the OT prophets were a great leap forward in the known world, when the intention became momentous. So I am going to paste Micah's text again
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Thanks so much for the research!
How does one "shoulder" the responsibility for tens of thousands of deaths? It's like saying George Bush "shouldered" the responsibility for his administration's choices to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. It's ordinary people who reap what is sown, if not more so, then just as much as the leaders. What George Bush did is being paid for by every one of us, and the American empire is falling as a consequence. When will leaders learn to let people live in peace? Evil doesn't pay off. It's beyond stupid.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
The only way he could relieve the Israeli people and all the rest of us of responsibility is to deposit a note explaining it was all his responsibility and then commit suicide. Maybe not maybe you have to be deified or idolised before that works, but at least it would be a sincere try.
However, pragmatically he could stop the killing at least until such time as he is relieved of his job.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
Do you mean that Netanyahu has personally shouldered the responsibility that truly belongs to the Israeli people, and also to the powers that established Israel in 1948? And also , if we go far enough back into the past, to the very roots of the Holocaust in northern Europe?
To me, this is a pregnant and novel idea. I want to ask what can guide us but sympathy for the underdog, in all cases and at all times. I understand that the times of the OT prophets were a great leap forward in the known world, when the intention became momentous. So I am going to paste Micah's text again
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Thanks so much for the research!
How does one "shoulder" the responsibility for tens of thousands of deaths? It's like saying George Bush "shouldered" the responsibility for his administration's choices to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. It's ordinary people who reap what is sown, if not more so, then just as much as the leaders. What George Bush did is being paid for by every one of us, and the American empire is falling as a consequence. When will leaders learn to let people live in peace? Evil doesn't pay off. It's beyond stupid.
You are right Gary and I had a re-think.
Only a powerful dictator has the potential power to take responsibility and blame. but perhaps not even then. After all, who allowed the dictator to be such as he was.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
The only way he could relieve the Israeli people and all the rest of us of responsibility is to deposit a note explaining it was all his responsibility and then commit suicide. Maybe not maybe you have to be deified or idolised before that works, but at least it would be a sincere try.
However, pragmatically he could stop the killing at least until such time as he is relieved of his job.
'Responsibility' for what? Giving Gaza independence and then being 'rewarded' with the torture and abduction of his people? He stands up for his people. That's what his job is.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
Do you mean that Netanyahu has personally shouldered the responsibility that truly belongs to the Israeli people, and also to the powers that established Israel in 1948? And also , if we go far enough back into the past, to the very roots of the Holocaust in northern Europe?
To me, this is a pregnant and novel idea. I want to ask what can guide us but sympathy for the underdog, in all cases and at all times. I understand that the times of the OT prophets were a great leap forward in the known world, when the intention became momentous. So I am going to paste Micah's text again
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Thanks so much for the research!
No research Belinda. Just stuff.
It's no use having sympathy for the lowest underdog if you elevate them above the penultimate lowest, or rather reverse their roles. But that's the irrelevant, dead and buried past, with its catastrophic effects right now.
And no, I'm not talking about responsibility, including Bush's, whatever he's got to do with it. And whatever responsibility means. I suppose I'm talking about determinism. Even if Netanyahu were elevated to Olympian moral heights overnight, what could he do differently. Have done from 07/10/2023? He, Israel, hasn't done anything surprising. Neither have the Palestinians. Neither has the world. Gary: "When will leaders learn to let people live in peace? Evil doesn't pay off. It's beyond stupid.", it's completely, inescapably normal. Natural. One might as well ask when will leaders learn to use free will. It's meaningless. 'Evil' is paying off for Netanyahu just fine. He's rich. He'll die rich. As it is for Putin, Trump, the ruling class everywhere. Keep the people stupid. And even if they all became philosopher kings overnight, unless it were the whole world, nothing could change. The only possible force for good is economic growth. As it always has been.
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 9:20 am
OK, on the night of October 7 2023. Netanyahu has an epiphany from Adonai.
Micah 6:8
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Erases all other enculturation.
How does he then proceed? Now as a Rogerian, Golden Rule, enlightened philosopher king? Resignation is not an option. How does he lead his people? The Knesset, where the balance of power is held by fanatics like Moses' successor, Joshua. Who would be Hamas if the roles were reversed. How does he stay in power to effect the least worst outcome? How does he take full responsibility?
Perhaps he has.
Do you mean that Netanyahu has personally shouldered the responsibility that truly belongs to the Israeli people, and also to the powers that established Israel in 1948? And also , if we go far enough back into the past, to the very roots of the Holocaust in northern Europe?
To me, this is a pregnant and novel idea. I want to ask what can guide us but sympathy for the underdog, in all cases and at all times. I understand that the times of the OT prophets were a great leap forward in the known world, when the intention became momentous. So I am going to paste Micah's text again
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Thanks so much for the research!
No research Belinda. Just stuff.
It's no use having sympathy for the lowest underdog if you elevate them above the penultimate lowest, or rather reverse their roles. But that's the irrelevant, dead and buried past, with its catastrophic effects right now.
And no, I'm not talking about responsibility, including Bush's, whatever he's got to do with it. And whatever responsibility means. I suppose I'm talking about determinism. Even if Netanyahu were elevated to Olympian moral heights overnight, what could he do differently. Have done from 07/10/2023? He, Israel, hasn't done anything surprising. Neither have the Palestinians. Neither has the world. Gary: "When will leaders learn to let people live in peace? Evil doesn't pay off. It's beyond stupid.", it's completely, inescapably normal. Natural. One might as well ask when will leaders learn to use free will. It's meaningless. 'Evil' is paying off for Netanyahu just fine. He's rich. He'll die rich. As it is for Putin, Trump, the ruling class everywhere. Keep the people stupid. And even if they all became philosopher kings overnight, unless it were the whole world, nothing could change. The only possible force for good is economic growth. As it always has been.
I enjoy determinism as much as anyone. Martin, I understand your stance on human nature but I'm more hopeful than you. I believe that as a species determined by cultural change ---not genetic change--- it's possible for our species to change its accustomed habits. We can learn lessons from our past. If we can elect philosopher kings to be the politicians instead of the poor quality we usually get then that would do just fine. E.g. Zelenski, Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Marcus Aurelius, Clement Attlee.
Human nature is determined by its existence not any essential qualities, and it will not be known what human nature is until the last human is deceased. That will be 'Judgement Day' as religionists would phrase it poetically .
Belinda wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 10:47 am
...
I enjoy determinism as much as anyone. Martin, I understand your stance on human nature but I'm more hopeful than you. I believe that as a species determined by cultural change ---not genetic change--- it's possible for our species to change its accustomed habits. We can learn lessons from our past. If we can elect philosopher kings to be the politicians instead of the poor quality we usually get then that would do just fine. E.g. Zelenski, Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Marcus Aurelius, Clement Attlee.
Human nature is determined by its existence not any essential qualities, and it will not be known what human nature is until the last human is deceased. That will be 'Judgement Day' as religionists would phrase it poetically .
We glacially slowly advance culturally, at obscene cost. I fail to see any cultural advance, i.e. any social, political, economic advance that is independent of wealth, technology and population size. China has achieved the greatest utilitarian increase this century. India is following. But for highest quality you can't have a population over twenty million. Holland is about the limit. Human nature is 90% monkey (with a reptile ancestor) and 10% bee. And the turkey monkeys will always vote for Xmas. Always.
No significant human population will ever vote to free the land.
Only America can stop Israel. And even Trump won't stop the 'aid'. $18bn in the last 8 months. American weapons have killed over 50,000 innocent people in that time. Neither Israel nor America will pay any consequence. Impunity rules. Never 'morality'. War is far cheaper than peace. And makes warmongers rich. The American economy grew by a factor of 6 in 4 years of WW2.
Belinda wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 10:47 am
...
I enjoy determinism as much as anyone. Martin, I understand your stance on human nature but I'm more hopeful than you. I believe that as a species determined by cultural change ---not genetic change--- it's possible for our species to change its accustomed habits. We can learn lessons from our past. If we can elect philosopher kings to be the politicians instead of the poor quality we usually get then that would do just fine. E.g. Zelenski, Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Marcus Aurelius, Clement Attlee.
Human nature is determined by its existence not any essential qualities, and it will not be known what human nature is until the last human is deceased. That will be 'Judgement Day' as religionists would phrase it poetically .
Is it times for a new axial age
We glacially slowly advance culturally, at obscene cost. I fail to see any cultural advance, i.e. any social, political, economic advance that is independent of wealth, technology and population size. China has achieved the greatest utilitarian increase this century. India is following. But for highest quality you can't have a population over twenty million. Holland is about the limit. Human nature is 90% monkey (with a reptile ancestor) and 10% bee. And the turkey monkeys will always vote for Xmas. Always.
No significant human population will ever vote to free the land.
Only America can stop Israel. And even Trump won't stop the 'aid'. $18bn in the last 8 months. American weapons have killed over 50,000 innocent people in that time. Neither Israel nor America will pay any consequence. Impunity rules. Never 'morality'. War is far cheaper than peace. And makes warmongers rich. The American economy grew by a factor of 6 in 4 years of WW2.
I have absolutely no problem with your pointing out the facts of the matter, and am grateful for it for myself. The machine is no doubt more powerful than the moral and is too big for any individual to fight alone or as United Nations.
Is it times for a new axial age
