Christianity

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I'm posting in this thread because it's where I've had other recent posts, and I want to explain in case I suddenly disappear...

I ended up in the E.R. on Wednesday and was there for 7 hours while they came up with all sorts of horrifying possibilities. It's unusual for me to have or focus much on ailments, so it's bizarre when something sort of catastrophic suddenly arises, and I find myself facing/considering death more closely. I was quite certain I wouldn't live to see today. I was even giving my partner helpful notes for after I was gone. Well, I'm still here, at this moment. If I disappear, it's either because I'm no longer on this planet... or I don't want to post any more. I guess you won't know.

Here's the interesting part for me... despite loving life, I was ready to say, "I'm good, I can go." I think the doctor expected me to burst into tears, and I just looked at him and said, 'Okay'. I was more worried about how it would affect the people in my life. Perhaps if I'm actually going to stick around a while longer, I can use it wisely... despite all the insanity we're being bombarded with every day on the political stage(s). Sort of puts things in perspective. We're here to live vibrantly while we have the opportunity... not witness people being the worst examples of humanity.

Wishing all of us happiness and health while we're here!

Oh Lacewing. I'm grateful, yearning that our waves have crossed. Keep posting if you will. If it helps. We make each other still. You have made me. Now.

[Lacewing]

I don't countenance reincarnation, which seems unintendedly ironically amusing in a belief system that eschews attachment.

Great point!

You seem to be wrestling with the paradox of an awareness without fixed identity, in, as a continuous entity?

The concept of an 'entity' is still a human construction/model, yes?

What if there is no entity? Is the ocean an entity? Yet it gives and sustains all kinds of life. What if that which we emerge from is a creative ocean of energy, without identity... or even purpose?

[Lacewing]

Oh Lacewing. I'm grateful, yearning that our waves have crossed. Keep posting if you will. If it helps. We make each other still. You have made me. Now.

Thank you.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I don't countenance reincarnation, which seems unintendedly ironically amusing in a belief system that eschews attachment.

Great point!

You seem to be wrestling with the paradox of an awareness without fixed identity, in, as a continuous entity?

The concept of an 'entity' is still a human construction/model, yes?

What if there is no entity? Is the ocean an entity? Yet it gives and sustains all kinds of life. What if that which we emerge from is a creative ocean of energy, without identity... or even purpose?

Nice again. So, ones identity is dissolved in that ocean, reborn without memory, except, perhaps, of fleeting former incarnations? Because memory is independent of identity? That's new to me! Memory transcendently persists! Nice idea.

And you are incredibly living in the moment!

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Oh Lacewing. I'm grateful, yearning that our waves have crossed. Keep posting if you will. If it helps. We make each other still. You have made me. Now.

Thank you.

Thank YOU.

[Lacewing]

The concept of an 'entity' is still a human construction/model, yes?

What if there is no entity? Is the ocean an entity? Yet it gives and sustains all kinds of life. What if that which we emerge from is a creative ocean of energy, without identity... or even purpose?

Nice again. So, ones identity is dissolved in that ocean, reborn without memory, except, perhaps, of fleeting former incarnations? Because memory is independent of identity? That's new to me! Memory transcendently persists! Nice idea.

Yes. Perhaps we all could tap into the memory of one incarnation or another? For whatever value/interest that offers.

And you are incredibly living in the moment!

I try.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

The concept of an 'entity' is still a human construction/model, yes?

What if there is no entity? Is the ocean an entity? Yet it gives and sustains all kinds of life. What if that which we emerge from is a creative ocean of energy, without identity... or even purpose?

Nice again. So, ones identity is dissolved in that ocean, reborn without memory, except, perhaps, of fleeting former incarnations? Because memory is independent of identity? That's new to me! Memory transcendently persists! Nice idea.

Yes. Perhaps we all could tap into the memory of one incarnation or another? For whatever value/interest that offers.

And you are incredibly living in the moment!

I try.

Inspiringly so. Most. Thank you. Pour it all out if you will. C. S. Lewis' Surprised By Joy comes to mind.

[Age]

In one of Paul's letters, I believe titled "Romans", Paul seems to say that the Jews will always be God's chosen by default but that Christians can become part of God's people or whatever if they embrace Christ. I forget the exact wording (something to do with grafting plant roots), however in effect, the Jews can do wrong by God but they always have a special place in God's world, that they are always welcome back into God's fold, and the rest of us have to do a bit more to garner the same kind of favor.

Saying and/or claiming, by a "jew", that 'jews" will always be God's chosen by default and/or that 'jews' always have a special place, as though any one/thing else would not be 'chosen' or would have a 'special place', is like a 'man' saying and/or claiming that God is 'male'.

The absurdity and ridiculous of the two is just blindingly obviously biased, and absolutely illogical and self-contradictory.

Coming from someone who wasn't a Jew, it seems kind of interesting that a Roman citizen would say that. Normally, I think people tend to believe that the world and the gods in it revolve around themselves in some way or fashion. To say that the world revolves around another people seems kind of astonishing in some ways. It's a bit as if Judaism conquered the Roman Empire in the end. That's quite a feat for such a small number of people.

Is there actual proof of what you are saying and claiming, here?

If yes, then where is the 'actual proof', exactly?

[Belinda]

I'm posting in this thread because it's where I've had other recent posts, and I want to explain in case I suddenly disappear...

I ended up in the E.R. on Wednesday and was there for 7 hours while they came up with all sorts of horrifying possibilities. It's unusual for me to have or focus much on ailments, so it's bizarre when something sort of catastrophic suddenly arises, and I find myself facing/considering death more closely. I was quite certain I wouldn't live to see today. I was even giving my partner helpful notes for after I was gone. Well, I'm still here, at this moment. If I disappear, it's either because I'm no longer on this planet... or I don't want to post any more. I guess you won't know.

Here's the interesting part for me... despite loving life, I was ready to say, "I'm good, I can go." I think the doctor expected me to burst into tears, and I just looked at him and said, 'Okay'. I was more worried about how it would affect the people in my life. Perhaps if I'm actually going to stick around a while longer, I can use it wisely... despite all the insanity we're being bombarded with every day on the political stage(s). Sort of puts things in perspective. We're here to live vibrantly while we have the opportunity... not witness people being the worst examples of humanity.

Wishing all of us happiness and health while we're here!

I'll be sorry if you disappear , Lacewing.

[Belinda]

In one of Paul's letters, I believe titled "Romans", Paul seems to say that the Jews will always be God's chosen by default but that Christians can become part of God's people or whatever if they embrace Christ. I forget the exact wording (something to do with grafting plant roots), however in effect, the Jews can do wrong by God but they always have a special place in God's world, that they are always welcome back into God's fold, and the rest of us have to do a bit more to garner the same kind of favor.

Saying and/or claiming, by a "jew", that 'jews" will always be God's chosen by default and/or that 'jews' always have a special place, as though any one/thing else would not be 'chosen' or would have a 'special place', is like a 'man' saying and/or claiming that God is 'male'.

The absurdity and ridiculous of the two is just blindingly obviously biased, and absolutely illogical and self-contradictory.

Coming from someone who wasn't a Jew, it seems kind of interesting that a Roman citizen would say that. Normally, I think people tend to believe that the world and the gods in it revolve around themselves in some way or fashion. To say that the world revolves around another people seems kind of astonishing in some ways. It's a bit as if Judaism conquered the Roman Empire in the end. That's quite a feat for such a small number of people.

Is there actual proof of what you are saying and claiming, here?

If yes, then where is the 'actual proof', exactly?

I can't remember what'by default ' means.

However, I thought the Israelites were God's chosen people because God first chose them to be the people who received the Mosaic Law and upheld the Mosaic Law through all their wanderings. It's a matter of historical fact that the Mosaic Law has been influential in the formation of Judaism, Judeo Christianity, and Islam

[Gary Childress]

I'm posting in this thread because it's where I've had other recent posts, and I want to explain in case I suddenly disappear...

I ended up in the E.R. on Wednesday and was there for 7 hours while they came up with all sorts of horrifying possibilities. It's unusual for me to have or focus much on ailments, so it's bizarre when something sort of catastrophic suddenly arises, and I find myself facing/considering death more closely. I was quite certain I wouldn't live to see today. I was even giving my partner helpful notes for after I was gone. Well, I'm still here, at this moment. If I disappear, it's either because I'm no longer on this planet... or I don't want to post any more. I guess you won't know.

Here's the interesting part for me... despite loving life, I was ready to say, "I'm good, I can go." I think the doctor expected me to burst into tears, and I just looked at him and said, 'Okay'. I was more worried about how it would affect the people in my life. Perhaps if I'm actually going to stick around a while longer, I can use it wisely... despite all the insanity we're being bombarded with every day on the political stage(s). Sort of puts things in perspective. We're here to live vibrantly while we have the opportunity... not witness people being the worst examples of humanity.

Wishing all of us happiness and health while we're here!

I hope you don't leave us, Lacewing.

[Age]

Maybe what we each 'experience' and 'know' is useful (and therefore 'true') for each of us. God... no god... whatever. Multiple views and experiences can simultaneously exist and be perceived as 'truth', yes? Look at how many supposed and varied theist/atheist 'truths' there are throughout human history in opposition to each other. Has it mattered for anyone other than each one who finds value in whatever way they do?

I understand the point you are making. But honestly, I see little conflict in the world religions. As I have stated many times on this forum, all these various religions - Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity (Islam exception)- formed from people within those cutltures being affected/influenced by this entity that I now know does exist. I believe (since sage upon introduction taught me a couple of things about reincarnation - that is not a "Christian" thang eithier!) - I believe that we reincarnate through time and a born into the religion or atheist family per karma and how we lived our former life.

Could be.

How could it be?

It is an absolute physical, theoretical, and logical impossibility.

Also, what would the actual purpose be to, for example, be a murder in an "Islamic" Life, and then get born into a "christian" life, exactly?

Why do so many people, here, in the days when this is being written, 'just accept things', which are said and claimed.

At least over the very vast majority, if not all, of the 'voted in' politicians would not get voted in if people just, really, thought about what they say, claim, and/or 'promise'.

I think all sorts of scenarios could play out, however.

It is a very 'easy life' to just go along claiming, 'any thing is possible'.

And just because many religions might share similar stories about their beliefs, that doesn't make them Universally complete or true.

Obviously, and just as obvious is that the exact same so-called 'stories' in which they all share are the Universal ones, which would be best if absolutely every one did follow and/or abide by.

Rather, religion/beliefs could be a by-product of whatever evolutionary stage humankind is at... and/or whatever needs or fears they are grappling with at the time.

'This', here, is another prime example of just how simply, how easily, and how much people allow their own 'past experiences' to have control over their 'current' thinking and/or 'logical reasoning', or lack there of.

That is to say, from all I know about you, you were born into some USA heavy duty wack-job form of "Christianity" and am now 'spiritual' - not a believer in the life of Christ. There's no problem with that.

Right... except I wouldn't say I'm not a believer in the life of the one that some call Christ, I just don't think it's any more significant than the Christ-like consciousness that can shine through each of us... and the sacrifices we suffer. I'm very wary of idol worship. We can see what people do with that -- how they justify all kinds of things because of their idols. Even the idea of God is an idol.

What you say is True, but let 'us' not forget that even the idea that 'There is no one truth', and/or, 'There is no one right way', is an idea, which some idolize, and/or 'try to' 'justify', as well.

But certainly to KNOW GOD I can confim is via Christ (likely GOD can be known via other religions) , and boy do I know this entity. I've seen the tail and the head of the coin that is GOD.

Okay, but your (or anyone's) experience/belief does not make it Universally true or applicable for everyone.

But, if one's experience/belief is what you call Universally True, then 'It' is applicable for every one, obviously.

Why would it?

Because every one is 'sharing', 'within', and/or is 'a part of' this One and only Universe.

So, although you believe otherwise, there are actually Universal Truths, which no one could refute.

Also, 'the tail and the head of that coin' (as you say) may be your own manifestation of divine energy. Very real... for some... and that's worth something to them!

We're sharing stories and accounts of our own very real experiences, right?

Not necessarily so. But, this is just because 'memory', itself, can be very faliable.

Lots of magic and representation in that.

What do you, personally, mean by 'magic', here, exactly?

Lots of insights behind the dancing veils.

What 'dancing veils'?

What are 'these things', exactly, which you call 'dancing veils', which are stopping and preventing 'you', personally, from seeing and understanding the actual irrefutable Universal Truths, in Life, here?

Once you also see, and understand, what 'they' are, exactly, then 'you' will also be able to 'free' "your' 'self' from 'them'. So, that 'you' will be able to 'see', and 'understands' things far more clearly, and Accurately, here, as well.

[Age]

I'm fascinated by the different ways of being, here, under that umbrella of the strong drive to proclaim universal truth. Certainty. We are so fearful for our identity, ultimately in the face of permanent obliteration, that we will believe anything that pushes back against that void, down to the biased neuron.

Yes! Very interesting to consider.

How much of our thinking builds up our identity of separateness and rightness and immortal importance.

ALL of 'the thinking'. Which, by the way, is not 'your' thinking, as 'the thinking, (and to a lesser extend 'the emotions' as well), are who and what 'you', a person, are, exactly.

The identity, known as 'lacewing', 'the person', and 'the personality, here, for example, is wholly and solely 'the thoughts, and thinking, and the emotions', within 'that body'.

And, the very reason why 'you', people, in the days when this is being written, are, still, 'separated' from the actual Truth of things, is just because 'you' do not want to lose 'that identity', because 'that' is all 'you' have known, for, literally, 'your whole lives'.

Thus why you human beings are, seemingly, continually in conflict with 'one another' is because 'you' so desperately want to 'hold onto' and not 'let go' of 'you', the already well maintained 'thoughts', assumptions and beliefs, within each and every human body.

Reincarnation could be true... but in what way?

Not in the 'general way' that you people, in the days when this is being written, envision, imagine, and share among one another. 'That way' is both logically and physically impossible.

Do we really think that human notions can encapsulate what's so very different from our linear and limited reality and awareness? The idea of coming back in some form that is still this particular identity... I don't know... it just doesn't make sense.

The reason 'it' does not make sense is because 'it' is, literally, empirically and theoretically impossible.

Rather, the awareness that is not exclusive to my supposed identity can arise in all things. My supposed individual identity is like a temporary wave in an ocean... arising and returning into the ocean.

But, 'you' do not return, because 'you' do not leave.

When this particular form (human body) -- with all of its entertaining stories and ideas -- ceases, is there really anything separate that needs to go anywhere else?

Because there is only One Universe, One Life, and/or One Existence, only, there is, literally, no other place 'you' could go to.

Why not be at home where we are?

In the days when this is being written, there is only One 'home' for the 'human body', and that place is, earth.
And, there is only One 'home', for 'you', the 'person', or the 'human being', and that place is, the Universe.

One thing the vast majority do not like, believer or non, to the point of putting it in their blind spot, is infinity. It's the factiest fact of all.

It seems the awareness of a human being is both wonderful and terrifying.

But, why does just 'awareness', itself, seem 'terrifying' to 'you', a human being, exactly?

There is, literally, nothing at all to be 'terrified' about. Except, of course, adult human beings greediness, selfishness, and hatred for things. But, these all eventually fade and pass away, after you human beings learn and understand what your 'True nature' is, exactly.

Also, 'awareness' is, actually, literally absolutely, wonder-ful, as the Universe, Itself, is, literally, full-of-wonder.

See, it would not matter how long human beings, individually or collectively lived for because there is, literally, an infinite number of new things to 'wonder', and learn about.

To create and imagine on so many levels, which we become attached to. Like being gods of our own creations. Yet, possibly forgetting or dismissing the larger system/collective that we must surely be part of, regardless of our temporary form. The rest of nature perceives and communicates and harmonizes in ways we can't even fathom...

Again, 'this one' believes its own made up stories are irrefutably true', like 'this one' is being a god of its own creations.

Now, how the 'rest of nature' perceives and communicated and harmonizes 'in ways', actually, can be, and already has been by the way, 'fathomed'.

and does not worry about its existence or what will become of 'it'.

Once 'you', adult human beings, also learn and understand about 'your existence' and 'what will become of' 'it', then 'you' too will also 'not worry' at all, exactly like you all once did, when 'you' were young children.

What if we could stop worrying or caring about infinity for 'ourselves'?

What even made 'you' begin to worry or care about so-called, ' infinity for 'you' ', exactly?

And, why are 'you' 'trying to' put 'your' own personal concerns and worries 'onto others', as though 'they' have 'the same', as 'you' do?

Once again, it is like 'this one' is being god of its own creations.

Just because 'you' might do some things "lacewing" never necessarily means that 'others' do the same thing/s.

What if we could see life as a shared dance in the moment?

Again, 'this one' is 'trying to' a god of its own creation, here.

'This one' is 'wanting to', and 'trying to', get 'others' to 'look at', and 'see', 'things' how 'it' does. Again, it is 'trying to' be god of its own creation.

For your information "lacewing' 'we' can, and some do, see 'Life', Itself, as a 'shared Thing, in which 'we' are all living in, and with.

Then what would we hold over each other?

'you' continually 'want to' and 'try to' criticize 'others' for doing the 'very thing' that 'you' keep doing, here, "yourself".

'you' want, and are 'trying to' get, 'others' to see life as shared dance in the moment, exactly like 'you do'.

But, what if I, for example, said some thing like;

What if we could see 'Life' for what 'It' Truly is, and in the One and only way that 'It' really is?

'I' would be the 'exact same thing', as 'you' are, here, but 'you' would not be as open to 'seeing' 'my view' as a 'shared dance', in the moment, right?

'you' would want to keep criticizing any one who claims that there 'actually is' One and only One Correct and Right view. Although there is only One and One only Universe, which would, obviously, have One way of 'doing things', which is the 'Best way', for every one in this One and only shared Life, and Universe.

How much more would we live fully in the moment if we weren't obsessing beyond it?

But, again, it is 'you' who continually obsesses over your 'own made up creation', and 'own belief', that 'There is no one truth'.

Or, have 'you', finally, let go of 'this belief' of yours, and have 'come back', here, in this forum, a 'changed person'?

[Age]

I don't countenance reincarnation, which seems unintendedly ironically amusing in a belief system that eschews attachment.

Great point!

You seem to be wrestling with the paradox of an awareness without fixed identity, in, as a continuous entity?

The concept of an 'entity' is still a human construction/model, yes?

Yet you claim that there is a 'divine energy'.

Which, for the initiated, is an 'Entity', itself.

What if there is no entity?

But, there is 'the Entity', which goes by many names, including 'the divine energy', as one of countless others. And,

Then there is 'the entities', which you individual human beings are, which go by many countless names and labels, as well. Although 'they' are unobtainable names and labels 'you', human beings, do 'put them' on 'yourselves", in order to 'separate" and 'distinguish', "your" 'selves' from "yourselves".

Is the ocean an entity?

In 'what way', exactly?

you have just given a 'body of water' a distinguishing different name or label to distinguish, for lack of a better word, one 'entity' from 'another entity', or one 'body' of water, from 'another body of water'.

But, 'this way' of using the 'entity' word was not what was being 'meant', right?

If yes, then, 'No', 'the ocean' is not 'an entity' like 'you', human beings, collectively or individually, are.

Yet it gives and sustains all kinds of life.

Although water might sustain all animal and plant life, here, on earth, water might not sustain all life in, and including, the Universe, itself.

What if that which we emerge from is a creative ocean of energy, without identity... or even purpose?

Then, 'that', which whoever and/or whatever the 'we' word, here, is referring to, exactly, emerged from a 'thing', which you, here, personally call an 'ocean of energy', which is without identity and without purpose.

Just like if 'that', which all things do emerge from, is 'creation', itself, or 'just energy', is with identity, and with purpose, then all you things have just emerged from 'that', with identity and with purpose.

By the way, what absolutely all things, besides 'matter', 'space', and the Universe, itself, do emerge from, exactly, has already been identified as 'the Universe', Itself.

And, which 'the purpose' for 'all-of-this', exactly, 'some' already know, 'some' are, still, wondering, while 'some more' believe, absolutely, there is no purpose, at all.

Now, what if, which all emerge from, is just 'yet to be identified, agree upon, and accepted, and which is obviously 'creative', 'by nature', and actually is even with purpose?

After all, it is all of 'you', adult human beings, who do 'look for' 'purpose', and 'meaning', in Life. Which, obviously, hints at there being 'purpose' and/or 'meaning' at least somewhere within this whole Existence.

[Age]

I'm posting in this thread because it's where I've had other recent posts, and I want to explain in case I suddenly disappear...

I ended up in the E.R. on Wednesday and was there for 7 hours while they came up with all sorts of horrifying possibilities. It's unusual for me to have or focus much on ailments, so it's bizarre when something sort of catastrophic suddenly arises, and I find myself facing/considering death more closely. I was quite certain I wouldn't live to see today. I was even giving my partner helpful notes for after I was gone. Well, I'm still here, at this moment. If I disappear, it's either because I'm no longer on this planet... or I don't want to post any more. I guess you won't know.

Here's the interesting part for me... despite loving life, I was ready to say, "I'm good, I can go." I think the doctor expected me to burst into tears, and I just looked at him and said, 'Okay'. I was more worried about how it would affect the people in my life. Perhaps if I'm actually going to stick around a while longer, I can use it wisely... despite all the insanity we're being bombarded with every day on the political stage(s). Sort of puts things in perspective. We're here to live vibrantly while we have the opportunity... not witness people being the worst examples of humanity.

Wishing all of us happiness and health while we're here!

I'll be sorry if you disappear , Lacewing.

Some of you people, here, are speaking as though 'the body' that 'the one' known as "lacewing", here, will not stop breathing and not stop pumping blood, and that 'the one' known as "lacewing" could always keep sharing "itself", here, in this forum.

For all of those not yet aware "lacewing" like all of 'you', human beings, will 'one day' 'disappear' in terms of not being able to 'share' 'the new ideas and/or views', which keep 'arising' within 'those bodies'.

Again, 'no person' actually ever disappears from this One and only Existence, or place called the Universe, but only if and when 'human bodies' change into 'other shapes and/or forms', the 'new thoughts' arising in 'those bodies' will not be able 'to appear', here, anymore.