Zionism

[Atla]

It infects the US, using it as a proxy to go global.
But it failed....and it is desperate....looking for concealment.....
Its proxy host is declining....
What will it do now?

The US is quickly declining, but Trump and his MAGA cult are rabidly pro-Israel (maybe that's why Trump wasn't taken out).

But my impression is that after a century, the Western deep state (if there is one, and not sure how much of it is Zionist) is trying to appoint the British PM as the "leader" of the Western world once again, with the French president as his sidekick, now that we have a chaotic madman in the White House who can't be used for this task. That could mean worse times for the British.

Apparently he's also 'rabidly pro Putin/Russia'. Last I heard Russia and Israel aren't exactly friends. You are a confused lot

So we are a confused lot because you can't understand something as simple that the mess is in Trump's head? And now the UK PM and the French President seem to have changed his mind on Putin.

[accelafine]

The US is quickly declining, but Trump and his MAGA cult are rabidly pro-Israel (maybe that's why Trump wasn't taken out).

But my impression is that after a century, the Western deep state (if there is one, and not sure how much of it is Zionist) is trying to appoint the British PM as the "leader" of the Western world once again, with the French president as his sidekick, now that we have a chaotic madman in the White House who can't be used for this task. That could mean worse times for the British.

Apparently he's also 'rabidly pro Putin/Russia'. Last I heard Russia and Israel aren't exactly friends. You are a confused lot

So we are a confused lot because you can't understand something as simple that the mess is in Trump's head? And now the UK PM and the French President seem to have changed his mind on Putin.

I don't care.

[accelafine]

At least Trump knows what a woman is...

[Atla]

At least Trump knows what a woman is...

Yeah that's not really related to what I said.
Anyway, something like that, although an NPD doesn't really know what men and women and humans in general are like, for different reasons. Just look at his miserable wife. But yeah at least he's getting us rid of the gender nonsense. Don't worry though, everything is aligning quickly for NZ to possibly come under the Chinese sphere of influence in the future, which will also mean less gender nonsense.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Myself, I have always said that it is unadvisable to broach the topic of Jewish identity, Jewish machinations in history and the contemporary world, especially (but not exclusively) on a website dedicated to philosophy and based in the United Kingdom and subject to strict speech controls. We must be honest: free speech is not respected in England. (And it is threatened everywhere of course).

It is for this reason unfair to the owner of this forum to attempt to bring out these critical positions for which he could be sanctioned.

I guess the question could be asked: Well, but are these (i.e. Pistolero’s) good arguments? Which is really to ask if what is now termed Jewish control is veritably a threat? And if yes, why and how?

But once again I say that as much as I like the ur-controversial topics, and Judaism, Christianity, pro-Judaism and anti-Judaism have been enduring topics of interest for me, it is quite simply not a topic that can be broached on any public forum. And in Europe this is doubly the case.

I examined (if only for a minute or two to capture the argument) each of the clips or videos Pistolero posted. The commentator (“content creator”) with the most credibility and the better presentation of an argument is Adam Green. His counter-Christian position led him to a counter-Judaic position and this involves the thorough and concerted dismantling of the entire myth-structure upon which Judaism is based. Frankly, it is more or less a continuation of the Nietzschean imperative and mission: to dismantle false mythologies, to see and understand how the will to power, once the fluff is removed, is blatantly obvious and operative.

If you are really going to go to the very ends of the destruction of religion and religious myth, you will have to accept all the consequences.

At its most intimate core it is a terribly supremacist religious ideology. And if there is one key statement that can be made about it, it is that: What terrifies and astounds Gentiles about Judaism and core Judaic belief is the will and the willfulness that stands behind it. There is nothing comparable in any other religion (that I am aware of) (but Islam might also share this intensity) to the Jewish sense of Jewish destiny and Jewish awareness of an end-object. All of this is based in the Prophets. The admonition internalized by believing Jews is (said by God Himself) “You will do My will” — or:

Instead of fragrance there will be a stench; instead of a sash, a rope; instead of well-dressed hair, baldness; instead of fine clothing, sackcloth; instead of beauty, branding.

The punishments for disobedience to the Will of God as expressed in Prophetic utterance are tortures outside of all proportion.

Everyone (except IC) writing on this forum is “post-Christian” (and his Christianity is so bizarre that it is hard even to characterize it). For all of you it is all ridiculous myth and it has all been transcended and superseded by a modern mentality that cannot understand nor consider how Jewish will came to be honed by the historical events of Jewish history. But here is the curious thing: that will definitely exists and is more real, more active, more powerful than any other cultural will.

Christian Evangelical will combines, in a weird synergy, with Judaic will.

In any case, I can only suggest that when the issue is closely considered the unsettling thing for those who are counter-Judaic and anti-Semitic is, in truth, the problem of Jewish will.

It is one thing (when considered from the Gentile perspective) that there is a will to manifest a world of justice and social righteousness (prophetic values); but quite another when (as the narrative now runs) Jews become powerful in essential industries and are seen as exerting far more influence out of proportion to their numbers, and indeed exerting control over powerful nations (the US obviously).

The turn against the foundations of Christian belief does lead, must lead, to the dissection and dismantling of Jewish belief and the mother-mythology.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Abrahamism is anti-nature....nihilistic.

It offers "solutions" or how to make nature less "unjust."...Nature is brutal, uncompromising....demanding.

So what does a 'just' nature look like? And what lunatic proposes a means to achieve such justice?

All the religions I am aware of — Jainism, Buddhism, the Hindu religions, Judaism, Christianity — and all those around which major civilizations have been constructed, are “anti-natural”. They cannot bear “nature” as it really and make efforts to construct alternatives.

It was Nietzsche’s assertion that Judaism and Christianity would produce nihilism.

Mr Will Bouwman — philosopher par excellence — is, in a very real sense, precisely the outcome of what is internally presaged by Nietzsche’s burrowing down to the very core of “reality” and seeing the truth about it: seeking truth, you find the truth, and that truth is “life is inherently meaningless and lacks a higher purpose”.

The entire horizon, and the very ground under our feet, on which our civilization was built, is no longer sustained by a coherent metaphysics. It is a meaningless world. But the power-dynamic: that means something, doesn’t it?

And you are a member of the intellectual class most dedicated to the undermining of former myths.

The strange thing is this: that if no one really and honestly believes in those former metaphysical principles through which our civilization came to be, and in a divine power that will enforce the rules, now or later, then “justice” will be enforced exclusively through political mechanics. It will not be a will to justice flowing from the human heart, but something imposed by structures of power.

Pistolero seems to long for a more brutal sort of world (what other word is there other than brutal?) But no one really wants to live in such a world. It is not a realistic longing.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The US is quickly declining, but Trump and his MAGA cult are rabidly pro-Israel (maybe that's why Trump wasn't taken out).

My impression goes like this: the US could very well, and under the right management, reverse the “decline” to which you refer. It is not unreasonable nor impossible that this happen. In fact — and whether soundly or without a sound plan — I think this is what Trump and a large class of US interests desire to occur: the reversal of managed decline.

You [Atla] desire for the US to “quickly decline”. But it is not inevitable. The US is vastly powerful and still vastly wealthy. Proper leadership could turn things around.

On the “positive” side, Jewish industry and innovation has always been good for economies generally (despite what is said and often believed). However, Israel has turned out to be a very bad investment project for the US.

What a predicament.

[Atla]

The US is quickly declining, but Trump and his MAGA cult are rabidly pro-Israel (maybe that's why Trump wasn't taken out).

My impression goes like this: the US could very well, and under the right management, reverse the “decline” to which you refer. It is not unreasonable nor impossible that this happen. In fact — and whether soundly or without a sound plan — I think this is what Trump and a large class of US interests desire to occur: the reversal of managed decline.

You [Atla] desire for the US to “quickly decline”. But it is not inevitable. The US is vastly powerful and still vastly wealthy. Proper leadership could turn things around.

On the “positive” side, Jewish industry and innovation has always been good for economies generally (despite what is said and often believed). However, Israel has turned out to be a very bad investment project for the US.

What a predicament.

Wrong and confused as usual. I'm the one who desired the US to reverse its decline properly, which I already explained to you. While you're the one who bet on Trump, even though it's obvious that Trump almost certainly sends the US into a worse decline, mostly just adding to the existing problems. You crazy religious types can't see clearly even if you try.

Well I suspect that's history now, after second Trump, there won't be any turning back anymore.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Wrong and confused as usual. I'm the one who desired the US to reverse its decline properly, which I already explained to you. While you're the one who bet on Trump, even though it's obvious that Trump almost certainly sends the US into a worse decline, mostly just adding to the existing problems. You crazy religious types can't see clearly even if you try.

Well I suspect that's history now, after second Trump, there won't be any turning back anymore.

I am uncertain what is actually “obvious”.

And I am also uncertain if those Trumpian policies will result in negative outcomes.

It could very well be that Trump et al initiate processes that are beneficial for the US in a long(er) run. It really depends on the entire power-structure and the successors to this administration.

You are anti-Zionist, OK I get it, but are you also anti-bagelist??

[Atla]

Wrong and confused as usual. I'm the one who desired the US to reverse its decline properly, which I already explained to you. While you're the one who bet on Trump, even though it's obvious that Trump almost certainly sends the US into a worse decline, mostly just adding to the existing problems. You crazy religious types can't see clearly even if you try.

Well I suspect that's history now, after second Trump, there won't be any turning back anymore.

I am uncertain what is actually “obvious”.

And I am also uncertain if those Trumpian policies will result in negative outcomes.

It could very well be that Trump et al initiate processes that are beneficial for the US in a long(er) run. It really depends on the entire power-structure and the successors to this administration.

You are anti-Zionist, OK I get it, but are you also anti-bagel??

And I'm about 95% certain that the outcomes will be overall negative. You know the US had decades to come up with a candidate for reversing the decline, if Trump is the best they could come up with then maybe they don't deserve sympathy. (He probably doesn't even know what decline you're referring to, he just wants to put more factories into the US.)

[Alexis Jacobi]

And I'm about 95% certain that the outcomes will be overall negative. You know the US had decades to come up with a candidate for reversing the decline, if Trump is the best they could come up with then maybe they don't deserve sympathy. (He probably doesn't even know what decline you're referring to, he just wants to put more factories into the US.)

Fair enough. But you don’t necessarily come across as a reliable source of opinion.

It’s all doom & gloom with you …

[Atla]

I'm sure your metaphysical hallucinations are more reliable.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I'm sure your metaphysical hallucinations are more reliable.

I think you are getting a bit closer to the essence of the topic. Here is the truth: All people, everywhere, and including you, have and exist in, and live through, metaphysical dreams of one sort or another. In your case, because you are unaware of your own self, you exist in a condition of a sort of schism (this I suspect because I see you as a fractured European and you come across as unhinged at times). Or, perhaps, you simply live within the ruins of a collapsed metaphysics which your late ancestors lived in and through.

If I have any position at all it is one of toleration and understanding in respect to the need for a metaphysical dream -- a lived mythology to use Joseph Campbell's terms. Children, for example, require reasons to live. And those reasons involve idealism, vision, creation, productive activity, etc.

The will behind Zionism is very definitely a 'metaphysical dream', but, and this must be said, it is antithetical to genuine, conservative, orthodox Judaism. Zionism is in this sense a perversion of Judaism -- genuine orthodox Judaism.

Here, let Rabbi Yaacov explain.

[Atla]

I'm sure your metaphysical hallucinations are more reliable.

I think you are getting a bit closer to the essence of the topic. Here is the truth: All people, everywhere, and including you, have and exist in, and live through, metaphysical dreams of one sort or another. In your case, because you are unaware of your own self, you exist in a condition of a sort of schism (this I suspect because I see you as a fractured European and you come across as unhinged at times). Or, perhaps, you simply live within the ruins of a collapsed metaphysics which your late ancestors lived in and through.

If I have any position at all it is one of toleration and understanding in respect to the need for a metaphysical dream -- a lived mythology to use Joseph Campbell's terms. Children, for example, require reasons to live. And those reasons involve idealism, vision, creation, productive activity, etc.

The will behind Zionism is very definitely a 'metaphysical dream', but, and this must be said, it is antithetical to genuine, conservative, orthodox Judaism. Zionism is in this sense a perversion of Judaism -- genuine orthodox Judaism.

Here, let Rabbi Yaacov explain.

That's your truth. My truth is that you are an emotionally disconnected, somewhat sociopathic, somewhat fascistic minded individual, who is fascinated by the power that religion can give us to dominate other people. You'd like some of that.

You think that I don't know myself. But I simply stopped doing metaphysics, and I have a mixture of like three metaphysics-es, the European Greek/Christian one, the remnants of the original pagan metaphysics of my people, and Eastern nondual metaphysics. If I have to name a metaphysical "dream" that I'm living anyway, it's the nondual one.

I know very well that most jews are also just pawns in the games of the Zionists and the Western deep state (I assume most of the deep state is Zionist). I also think that Judaism is primitive.

Here's the thing: metaphysical dreams aren't very important. And I'm fairly sure that Trump has just about no idea about any of what you wrote. He just wants to "Make America Great Again" by building more factories.

[BigMike]

I'm sure your metaphysical hallucinations are more reliable.

I think you are getting a bit closer to the essence of the topic. Here is the truth: All people, everywhere, and including you, have and exist in, and live through, metaphysical dreams of one sort or another. In your case, because you are unaware of your own self, you exist in a condition of a sort of schism (this I suspect because I see you as a fractured European and you come across as unhinged at times). Or, perhaps, you simply live within the ruins of a collapsed metaphysics which your late ancestors lived in and through.

If I have any position at all it is one of toleration and understanding in respect to the need for a metaphysical dream -- a lived mythology to use Joseph Campbell's terms. Children, for example, require reasons to live. And those reasons involve idealism, vision, creation, productive activity, etc.

The will behind Zionism is very definitely a 'metaphysical dream', but, and this must be said, it is antithetical to genuine, conservative, orthodox Judaism. Zionism is in this sense a perversion of Judaism -- genuine orthodox Judaism.

Here, let Rabbi Yaacov explain.

You often speak of "will"—Jewish will, Christian will, metaphysical will—as if it's an autonomous force steering history. But from a deterministic and atheist point of view, this framing misses the point entirely. There is no such thing as "will" detached from cause and effect. What you call Jewish will, or Christian will, or Nietzschean will to power, are all just outcomes—determined phenomena arising from layers of historical, environmental, social, and neurobiological causes. There is no ghost in the machine.

The intensity you attribute to Jewish identity or Zionist ambition isn’t metaphysical. It’s the result of centuries of trauma, persecution, tribal cohesion, religious conditioning, and evolving geopolitical strategy. It's no more mystical than gravity, and no more unique than the causes behind any group's collective behavior—including the rise of American evangelicals or Islamic theocracies. If anything terrifies people about this behavior, it's because they don't understand that all human action is caused—not chosen.

You say we live in the ruins of a collapsed metaphysics. That collapse wasn’t a tragedy—it was a wake-up call. The world doesn't need more dreamers clinging to “lived mythology.” It needs people who are brave enough to face a universe where meaning is not handed down from on high, but constructed—temporarily, imperfectly, and necessarily—by finite minds in a causally determined world.

Zionism, like every other ideology, is not exempt from scrutiny. But the scrutiny must be grounded in evidence and causal understanding—not mystical projections of cultural “will.” You’re not doing anyone a favor by cloaking your observations in pseudo-poetic fatalism and theological nostalgia. That’s just another mythology—yours.

As for "tolerating the need for metaphysical dreams": sure, people cling to myths. But some of us are trying to grow out of them. And we’re trying to build a society where truth—not inherited delusions—is the foundation for justice, peace, and progress.