Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I remember reading the Sunday Times on holiday in Wells-next-the-Sea after the 6 Day War in '67, aged 13, I was a pretentious little sod. And I've never forgotten that it said that the post-war liberal west (US, NW Europe) thought that they were creating a new Athens in the ME, to bring enlightenment to the heart of the barbarians, but that it was turning in to a new Sparta. No US government will ever let Israel fail, no matter how much Israel fucks up like it did on October 7, and '73. And the US is too big to fail. If it did, by some form of fantasy collapsology, we'd all go with it. That afternoon. The Arab world does not give a damn about Palestine. Nobody does. Nobody can. Israel responded to Hamas and Hezbollah perfectly. With demonstrable restraint. Within none. They warned where they could. Where it wouldn't compromise hits on Hamas & Hezbollah leaders by bunker buster. With a hundred collateral dead necessarily for each. (That's nothing compared with what we did to maximize casualties by area bombing Germany.) And yeah, my English (i.e. German) ancestors conquered this land 1500 years ago. My Welsh, Scots and Irish ones came back anyway. The world is heading in to Heinlein meets 1984 territory. And a few other sci-fi's. 4 degrees warmer. Desertification. Antarctic melt. Sea level rise. Every coastal city gone. LA. NY. London. Amsterdam. Bordeaux. Lagos. Djakarta. Shanghai. Until we float them. Whole countries. Bangladesh. A billion refugees. Don't worry. All of which will make the rich richer. My favourite techno-fix is that we pave the deserts with solar panels which greens them, creates cloud, cools the Earth. 500 years. Palestine? Oh yeah. That drowns too. Two million. 0.2% of 'the problem'. Morality? What is that? We vote for the rich to get richer. It'll trickle down. You know it makes sense.

Oct 7 was Israel's fault? So you are admitting that Israel should have expected an attack so evil and depraved that its equal hasn't been seen in living (or even non living) memory. What does that tell anyone about YOUR opinion of plasticians and what they are capable of?
You are also a lying scumbag. No one ever said anything about bringing 'enlightenment to the barbarians'. YOU are the one calling them 'barbarians'. Egypt was anything BUT 'barbaric'. Radical islam wasn't a 'thing' back then, but the US chose to slaughter all the 'dictators' who were keeping the cork in the bottle of islamic extremism.
People were a lot better educated in the 60s and 70s. They actually knew the history of the region and had a very good grasp of current events and what was going on in the world. Journalists were actually journalists and not 'podcasters'. People read the papers. Ironic but true that with the advent of the internet people have become MASSIVELY less informed. Insanity has prevailed and snowballled.

You are living proof of if things can go wrong between the ears, can be diametrically misunderstood, they will, be.

You need a Camberwell Cowat.

And learn to spell I O N E or thereabouts.

[accelafine]

I remember reading the Sunday Times on holiday in Wells-next-the-Sea after the 6 Day War in '67, aged 13, I was a pretentious little sod. And I've never forgotten that it said that the post-war liberal west (US, NW Europe) thought that they were creating a new Athens in the ME, to bring enlightenment to the heart of the barbarians, but that it was turning in to a new Sparta. No US government will ever let Israel fail, no matter how much Israel fucks up like it did on October 7, and '73. And the US is too big to fail. If it did, by some form of fantasy collapsology, we'd all go with it. That afternoon. The Arab world does not give a damn about Palestine. Nobody does. Nobody can. Israel responded to Hamas and Hezbollah perfectly. With demonstrable restraint. Within none. They warned where they could. Where it wouldn't compromise hits on Hamas & Hezbollah leaders by bunker buster. With a hundred collateral dead necessarily for each. (That's nothing compared with what we did to maximize casualties by area bombing Germany.) And yeah, my English (i.e. German) ancestors conquered this land 1500 years ago. My Welsh, Scots and Irish ones came back anyway. The world is heading in to Heinlein meets 1984 territory. And a few other sci-fi's. 4 degrees warmer. Desertification. Antarctic melt. Sea level rise. Every coastal city gone. LA. NY. London. Amsterdam. Bordeaux. Lagos. Djakarta. Shanghai. Until we float them. Whole countries. Bangladesh. A billion refugees. Don't worry. All of which will make the rich richer. My favourite techno-fix is that we pave the deserts with solar panels which greens them, creates cloud, cools the Earth. 500 years. Palestine? Oh yeah. That drowns too. Two million. 0.2% of 'the problem'. Morality? What is that? We vote for the rich to get richer. It'll trickle down. You know it makes sense.

Oct 7 was Israel's fault? So you are admitting that Israel should have expected an attack so evil and depraved that its equal hasn't been seen in living (or even non living) memory. What does that tell anyone about YOUR opinion of plasticians and what they are capable of?
You are also a lying scumbag. No one ever said anything about bringing 'enlightenment to the barbarians'. YOU are the one calling them 'barbarians'. Egypt was anything BUT 'barbaric'. Radical islam wasn't a 'thing' back then, but the US chose to slaughter all the 'dictators' who were keeping the cork in the bottle of islamic extremism.
People were a lot better educated in the 60s and 70s. They actually knew the history of the region and had a very good grasp of current events and what was going on in the world. Journalists were actually journalists and not 'podcasters'. People read the papers. Ironic but true that with the advent of the internet people have become MASSIVELY less informed. Insanity has prevailed and snowballled.

You are living proof of if things can go wrong between the ears, can be diametrically misunderstood, they will, be.

You need a Camberwell Cowat.

And learn to spell I O N E or thereabouts.

Exquisite. Makes so much sense. I will be sure to mend my ways on account of this supernova of insight...

[popeye1945]

So you're basically a bigot, no better than American bigots.

You use the term pretty freely, I am not racist, but neither am I a genocider. I just have a low tolerance for mass murderers, which includes Americans!!

So do you preach "death to Americans" and "piss" on our graves also?

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

[accelafine]

You use the term pretty freely, I am not racist, but neither am I a genocider. I just have a low tolerance for mass murderers, which includes Americans!!

So do you preach "death to Americans" and "piss" on our graves also?

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

Stop lumping Israel in with the US. Where's your evidence that the US attacks countries at the behest of Israel? Put up or stfu. It doesn't even make any logical sense. You and pisspot are cast from the same mould. If anyone does anyone's bidding it's Great Britain that does America's bidding, or have you conveniently forgotten Tony Blair and his lies and arse licking?

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Oct 7 was Israel's fault? So you are admitting that Israel should have expected an attack so evil and depraved that its equal hasn't been seen in living (or even non living) memory. What does that tell anyone about YOUR opinion of plasticians and what they are capable of?
You are also a lying scumbag. No one ever said anything about bringing 'enlightenment to the barbarians'. YOU are the one calling them 'barbarians'. Egypt was anything BUT 'barbaric'. Radical islam wasn't a 'thing' back then, but the US chose to slaughter all the 'dictators' who were keeping the cork in the bottle of islamic extremism.
People were a lot better educated in the 60s and 70s. They actually knew the history of the region and had a very good grasp of current events and what was going on in the world. Journalists were actually journalists and not 'podcasters'. People read the papers. Ironic but true that with the advent of the internet people have become MASSIVELY less informed. Insanity has prevailed and snowballled.

You are living proof of if things can go wrong between the ears, can be diametrically misunderstood, they will, be.

You need a Camberwell Cowat.

And learn to spell I O N E or thereabouts.

Exquisite. Makes so much sense. I will be sure to mend my ways on account of this supernova of insight...

I could apologize for my irony. May be I should. Enlightenment is a helpless privilege in the path of the juggernaut of of biology, the relentless triumph of passion over reason, which undermines the passions, in hindsight, over the appallingly long arc of moral development through economic development. We have a vast way to go. And I fear we've peaked and are now actually regressing. As a species.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

You use the term pretty freely, I am not racist, but neither am I a genocider. I just have a low tolerance for mass murderers, which includes Americans!!

So do you preach "death to Americans" and "piss" on our graves also?

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

Then you are a weak, ignorant part of the problem. Like the rest of us.

[popeye1945]

So do you preach "death to Americans" and "piss" on our graves also?

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

Then you are a weak, ignorant part of the problem. Like the rest of us.

That's very emotional!

[Gary Childress]

You use the term pretty freely, I am not racist, but neither am I a genocider. I just have a low tolerance for mass murderers, which includes Americans!!

So do you preach "death to Americans" and "piss" on our graves also?

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

I had hoped that transitioning from a world power to a civilized member of the UN would be a peaceful one. Those of us who protested the wars did so in part because we thought peaceful coexistence was possible and preferable. People like you just validate the Netanyahus and George Bushes of the world, causing people to fear and seek security from the militarists. You seem to think that two wrongs make a right.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

Then you are a weak, ignorant part of the problem. Like the rest of us.

That's very emotional!

? not compared with you. And in reaction to your advocating genocide, very mild. America is the world's greatest arms dealer by far, sure. Of the 30 million people conservatively estimated to have died since 1950 in wars according to the Polynational War Memorial, 1.2 million were 'battle deaths'. Although as 2.5 million died in the Korean War and 3.5 in Vietnam, that's out by at least a factor 5 for all deaths. As an individual nation it probably has been involved in more war deaths beyond its borders than any other. But even on a bad day, it has only been involved in 20% of BOTG deaths. Any other master would have been far worse. China managed to kill 30,000,000 +/- 15 of it's own people in just 4 of those years. In the Congo up to 15,000,000 died since 1950. Up to 60,000,000 killed internally in just two countries, and not by the US. If America fails, you die. We all die. If Israel fails, it will, as Menachem Begin said in 1978, pull down the temple of humanity.

[popeye1945]

Then you are a weak, ignorant part of the problem. Like the rest of us.

That's very emotional!

? not compared with you. And in reaction to your advocating genocide, very mild. America is the world's greatest arms dealer by far, sure. Of the 30 million people conservatively estimated to have died since 1950 in wars according to the Polynational War Memorial, 1.2 million were 'battle deaths'. Although as 2.5 million died in the Korean War and 3.5 in Vietnam, that's out by at least a factor 5 for all deaths. As an individual nation it probably has been involved in more war deaths beyond its borders than any other. But even on a bad day, it has only been involved in 20% of BOTG deaths. Any other master would have been far worse. China managed to kill 30,000,000 +/- 15 of it's own people in just 4 of those years. In the Congo up to 15,000,000 died since 1950. Up to 60,000,000 killed internally in just two countries, and not by the US. If America fails, you die. We all die. If Israel fails, it will, as Menachem Begin said in 1978, pull down the temple of humanity.

It is a nice effort on your part. Still, the world knows what the American empire is about, and they are sick of its endless war-making, its murderous regime changes of democratically elected governments. If it were an individual we were speaking of, he would be labeled a violent psychopath. America is presently an agent of genocide in Palestine and Gaza, and has long sold its sovereignty to world Zionism. Wonder how much the soul of America costs? For America, the dream of world domination is over, and with its fall goes Israel. The age of colonialism is over, and Israel and America want to hope the world at large has forgiveness within its heart. I am a Canadian and ashamed of my government's support of the Israeli and American genocide. Israel and the American house of Israel have told the world and the world court to kiss their asses, big mistake. Every empire falls, and America is falling. Look at your cities and the overwhelming homelessness that is a revolutionary pot boiling over. The world has taken its rabies shots, and it is no longer afraid to challenge the vicious master. Your media will tell you different. You need to find sources that are not corporate news/government news agencies, you need to hear the voice of the world at large.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

That's very emotional!

? not compared with you. And in reaction to your advocating genocide, very mild. America is the world's greatest arms dealer by far, sure. Of the 30 million people conservatively estimated to have died since 1950 in wars according to the Polynational War Memorial, 1.2 million were 'battle deaths'. Although as 2.5 million died in the Korean War and 3.5 in Vietnam, that's out by at least a factor 5 for all deaths. As an individual nation it probably has been involved in more war deaths beyond its borders than any other. But even on a bad day, it has only been involved in 20% of BOTG deaths. Any other master would have been far worse. China managed to kill 30,000,000 +/- 15 of it's own people in just 4 of those years. In the Congo up to 15,000,000 died since 1950. Up to 60,000,000 killed internally in just two countries, and not by the US. If America fails, you die. We all die. If Israel fails, it will, as Menachem Begin said in 1978, pull down the temple of humanity.

It is a nice effort on your part. Still, the world knows what the American empire is about, and they are sick of its endless war-making, its murderous regime changes of democratically elected governments. If it were an individual we were speaking of, he would be labeled a violent psychopath. America is presently an agent of genocide in Palestine and Gaza, and has long sold its sovereignty to world Zionism. Wonder how much the soul of America costs? For America, the dream of world domination is over, and with its fall goes Israel. The age of colonialism is over, and Israel and America want to hope the world at large has forgiveness within its heart. I am a Canadian and ashamed of my government's support of the Israeli and American genocide. Israel and the American house of Israel have told the world and the world court to kiss their asses, big mistake. Every empire falls, and America is falling. Look at your cities and the overwhelming homelessness that is a revolutionary pot boiling over. The world has taken its rabies shots, and it is no longer afraid to challenge the vicious master. Your media will tell you different. You need to find sources that are not corporate news/government news agencies, you need to hear the voice of the world at large.

The world has no voice. This is all just business as usual and more so. We are reverting to Orwell's nationalism everywhere. And there are 123,000,000 DPs. That will increase by a factor of 10 when we get to 4 degrees. There is no morality worth its name whatsoever in politics=populations.

[popeye1945]

So do you preach "death to Americans" and "piss" on our graves also?

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

I had hoped that transitioning from a world power to a civilized member of the UN would be a peaceful one. Those of us who protested the wars did so in part because we thought peaceful coexistence was possible and preferable. People like you just validate the Netanyahus and George Bushes of the world, causing people to fear and seek security from the militarists. You seem to think that two wrongs make a right.

The world has been patient with America; it cannot afford to shoot this particular mad dog, for the world is an interrelated, interdependent whole, something the West will not acknowledge. The world is patient but carries a big stick. The age of colonialism is over, as painful to the West as this is. It started inheriting the British Empire after World War I. It's had a long run, the world at large is telling America to change and stop the killing wars and become a decent member of the world community, but up until now, this has fallen upon deaf ears. The world remains in jeopardy due to America and Israel, so the danger to all the earth hangs in the balance.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

America has been a major dealer in death since the end of World War II. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, so yes, if America continues as the major dealer in death around the world, I say death to the American house of Israel and piss on its grave. Before you get all righteous on me, check out the facts, 1950. America has been a cruel master, and most of the world is only too aware of this fact. The American empire has overextended itself, and signs of its decay are everywhere. One can sit back with idle hands and watch it rot.

I had hoped that transitioning from a world power to a civilized member of the UN would be a peaceful one. Those of us who protested the wars did so in part because we thought peaceful coexistence was possible and preferable. People like you just validate the Netanyahus and George Bushes of the world, causing people to fear and seek security from the militarists. You seem to think that two wrongs make a right.

The world has been patient with America; it cannot afford to shoot this particular mad dog, for the world is an interrelated, interdependent whole, something the West will not acknowledge. The world is patient but carries a big stick. The age of colonialism is over, as painful to the West as this is. It started inheriting the British Empire after World War I. It's had a long run, the world at large is telling America to change and stop the killing wars and become a decent member of the world community, but up until now, this has fallen upon deaf ears. The world remains in jeopardy due to America and Israel, so the danger to all the earth hangs in the balance.

And why can't the West stop the war in Ukraine? Or the conquest of Taiwan.

[popeye1945]

I had hoped that transitioning from a world power to a civilized member of the UN would be a peaceful one. Those of us who protested the wars did so in part because we thought peaceful coexistence was possible and preferable. People like you just validate the Netanyahus and George Bushes of the world, causing people to fear and seek security from the militarists. You seem to think that two wrongs make a right.

The world has been patient with America; it cannot afford to shoot this particular mad dog, for the world is an interrelated, interdependent whole, something the West will not acknowledge. The world is patient but carries a big stick. The age of colonialism is over, as painful to the West as this is. It started inheriting the British Empire after World War I. It's had a long run, the world at large is telling America to change and stop the killing wars and become a decent member of the world community, but up until now, this has fallen upon deaf ears. The world remains in jeopardy due to America and Israel, so the danger to all the earth hangs in the balance.

And why can't the West stop the war in Ukraine? Or the conquest of Taiwan.

Because they follow America and are still more habitual in their desire to maintain the colonial tradition, it is all they have known, and what they fear is doing without violent exploitation of the weaker nations. I must assume stupidity on the part of European nations; America realized its mistake in thinking it could defeat Russia, so what they are thinking, I have no idea, particularly with Russia's backup being China.

[popeye1945]

? not compared with you. And in reaction to your advocating genocide, very mild. America is the world's greatest arms dealer by far, sure. Of the 30 million people conservatively estimated to have died since 1950 in wars according to the Polynational War Memorial, 1.2 million were 'battle deaths'. Although as 2.5 million died in the Korean War and 3.5 in Vietnam, that's out by at least a factor 5 for all deaths. As an individual nation it probably has been involved in more war deaths beyond its borders than any other. But even on a bad day, it has only been involved in 20% of BOTG deaths. Any other master would have been far worse. China managed to kill 30,000,000 +/- 15 of it's own people in just 4 of those years. In the Congo up to 15,000,000 died since 1950. Up to 60,000,000 killed internally in just two countries, and not by the US. If America fails, you die. We all die. If Israel fails, it will, as Menachem Begin said in 1978, pull down the temple of humanity.

It is a nice effort on your part. Still, the world knows what the American empire is about, and they are sick of its endless war-making, its murderous regime changes of democratically elected governments. If it were an individual we were speaking of, he would be labeled a violent psychopath. America is presently an agent of genocide in Palestine and Gaza, and has long sold its sovereignty to world Zionism. Wonder how much the soul of America costs? For America, the dream of world domination is over, and with its fall goes Israel. The age of colonialism is over, and Israel and America want to hope the world at large has forgiveness within its heart. I am a Canadian and ashamed of my government's support of the Israeli and American genocide. Israel and the American house of Israel have told the world and the world court to kiss their asses, big mistake. Every empire falls, and America is falling. Look at your cities and the overwhelming homelessness that is a revolutionary pot boiling over. The world has taken its rabies shots, and it is no longer afraid to challenge the vicious master. Your media will tell you different. You need to find sources that are not corporate news/government news agencies, you need to hear the voice of the world at large.

The world has no voice. This is all just business as usual and more so. We are reverting to Orwell's nationalism everywhere. And there are 123,000,000 DPs. That will increase by a factor of 10 when we get to 4 degrees. There is no morality worth its name whatsoever in politics=populations.

I believe the BRICS federation of nations is the voice of the world, representing a large portion of the world's population. It is true that the American house of Israel and Israel itself have done their best to destroy the very concept of humanity, and that too is what the world is reacting to. Without a basic sense of decency, where do we go without that?