Christianity

[Belinda]

Hello again L acewing

Hello! and thank you.

Checking in to see what's new and different here.

Can anyone offer an interesting brief summary of the past 16 months on the forum?

Ha Ha!

[henry quirk]

Hello again L acewing

Hello! and thank you.

Checking in to see what's new and different here.

Can anyone offer an interesting brief summary of the past 16 months on the forum?

Ha Ha!

Yeah, Ha Ha! about sums it up.

[Greatest I am]

'That' 'one' says there is only One 'actual' ''truth''. How does tHaT oNe know 'that'? Apart from for themselves. Untransferably. They know THAT for everyone. Does ThAt OnE know what it is? wHaT is that one? Are they THE ONE?!?!? The all knowing? Not even God knows that.

Wow. You know what God knows.

Nice to have first hand information.

I don't need it. I just need the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Which you can prove with senior high 'math'. That's a pretty blasphemous moniker you got there.

I chose carefully with my tongue in cheek.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Wow. You know what God knows.

Nice to have first hand information.

I don't need it. I just need the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Which you can prove with senior high 'math'. That's a pretty blasphemous moniker you got there.

I chose carefully with my tongue in cheek.

A paraphrase of Muhammad Ali? And Yoda?

[Greatest I am]

I don't need it. I just need the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Which you can prove with senior high 'math'. That's a pretty blasphemous moniker you got there.

I chose carefully with my tongue in cheek.

A paraphrase of Muhammad Ali? And Yoda?

More like trying to get the religious to think of what Moses meant when telling Pharaoh that his God's name was I am.

That and that Gnostic Christians traditionally name our God I am and we do mean ourselves.

Take your case, whatever the ideal set of rules and laws you live by, you are your best moral guide and master. Right?

As Jesus asked in scripture, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

[Belinda]

I chose carefully with my tongue in cheek.

A paraphrase of Muhammad Ali? And Yoda?

More like trying to get the religious to think of what Moses meant when telling Pharaoh that his God's name was I am.

That and that Gnostic Christians traditionally name our God I am and we do mean ourselves.

Take your case, whatever the ideal set of rules and laws you live by, you are your best moral guide and master. Right?

As Jesus asked in scripture, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

There is no such thing as "yourself" in the sense of tabula rasa.

[Greatest I am]

A paraphrase of Muhammad Ali? And Yoda?

More like trying to get the religious to think of what Moses meant when telling Pharaoh that his God's name was I am.

That and that Gnostic Christians traditionally name our God I am and we do mean ourselves.

Take your case, whatever the ideal set of rules and laws you live by, you are your best moral guide and master. Right?

As Jesus asked in scripture, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

There is no such thing as "yourself" in the sense of tabula rasa.

???

I was born with a working program that pushed me to survive and thrive.

Strange that you do not see anything in you as a baby that would prompt you to go for the tit to suckle and not bite?

I had that.

[Belinda]

More like trying to get the religious to think of what Moses meant when telling Pharaoh that his God's name was I am.

That and that Gnostic Christians traditionally name our God I am and we do mean ourselves.

Take your case, whatever the ideal set of rules and laws you live by, you are your best moral guide and master. Right?

As Jesus asked in scripture, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

There is no such thing as "yourself" in the sense of tabula rasa.

???

I was born with a working program that pushed me to survive and thrive.

Strange that you do not see anything in you as a baby that would prompt you to go for the tit to suckle and not bite?

I had that.

Yes, but biological imperatives are not all of human behaviours; some of them are learned including abstract ideas. True , there are geniuses.

[Gary Childress]

In one of Paul's letters, I believe titled "Romans", Paul seems to say that the Jews will always be God's chosen by default but that Christians can become part of God's people or whatever if they embrace Christ. I forget the exact wording (something to do with grafting plant roots), however in effect, the Jews can do wrong by God but they always have a special place in God's world, that they are always welcome back into God's fold, and the rest of us have to do a bit more to garner the same kind of favor.

Coming from someone who wasn't a Jew, it seems kind of interesting that a Roman citizen would say that. Normally, I think people tend to believe that the world and the gods in it revolve around themselves in some way or fashion. To say that the world revolves around another people seems kind of astonishing in some ways. It's a bit as if Judaism conquered the Roman Empire in the end. That's quite a feat for such a small number of people.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

In one of Paul's letters, I believe titled "Romans", Paul seems to say that the Jews will always be God's chosen by default but that Christians can become part of God's people or whatever if they embrace Christ. I forget the exact wording (something to do with grafting plant roots), however in effect, the Jews can do wrong by God but they always have a special place in God's world, that they are always welcome back into God's fold, and the rest of us have to do a bit more to garner the same kind of favor.

Coming from someone who wasn't a Jew, it seems kind of interesting that a Roman citizen would say that. Normally, I think people tend to believe that the world and the gods in it revolve around themselves in some way or fashion. To say that the world revolves around another people seems kind of astonishing in some ways. It's a bit as if Judaism conquered the Roman Empire in the end. That's quite a feat for such a small number of people.

He was just desperate to be universalist with regard to his fellow Jews who couldn't accept Christ.

[Lacewing]

Yes, one of the traits of mine that I continually attempt to abate. Lacewing in particular used to bring out the worst in me...

You're blaming that on ME?

Welcome back, Lacewing! It's good to see you posting again.

Thank you, Gary!

It's good to see you all again, until we start bashing each other over the head. I will try to be on my best behavior.

[Lacewing]

I don't worship anything or anyone. But know all atheists are wrong.

Maybe what we each 'experience' and 'know' is useful (and therefore 'true') for each of us. God... no god... whatever. Multiple views and experiences can simultaneously exist and be perceived as 'truth', yes? Look at how many supposed and varied theist/atheist 'truths' there are throughout human history in opposition to each other. Has it mattered for anyone other than each one who finds value in whatever way they do?

I understand the point you are making. But honestly, I see little conflict in the world religions. As I have stated many times on this forum, all these various religions - Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity (Islam exception)- formed from people within those cutltures being affected/influenced by this entity that I now know does exist. I believe (since sage upon introduction taught me a couple of things about reincarnation - that is not a "Christian" thang eithier!) - I believe that we reincarnate through time and a born into the religion or atheist family per karma and how we lived our former life.

Could be. I think all sorts of scenarios could play out, however. And just because many religions might share similar stories about their beliefs, that doesn't make them Universally complete or true. Rather, religion/beliefs could be a by-product of whatever evolutionary stage humankind is at... and/or whatever needs or fears they are grappling with at the time.

That is to say, from all I know about you, you were born into some USA heavy duty wack-job form of "Christianity" and am now 'spiritual' - not a believer in the life of Christ. There's no problem with that.

Right... except I wouldn't say I'm not a believer in the life of the one that some call Christ, I just don't think it's any more significant than the Christ-like consciousness that can shine through each of us... and the sacrifices we suffer. I'm very wary of idol worship. We can see what people do with that -- how they justify all kinds of things because of their idols. Even the idea of God is an idol.

But certainly to KNOW GOD I can confim is via Christ (likely GOD can be known via other religions) , and boy do I know this entity. I've seen the tail and the head of the coin that is GOD.

Okay, but your (or anyone's) experience/belief does not make it Universally true or applicable for everyone. Why would it? Also, 'the tail and the head of that coin' (as you say) may be your own manifestation of divine energy. Very real... for some... and that's worth something to them!

We're sharing stories and accounts of our own very real experiences, right? Lots of magic and representation in that. Lots of insights behind the dancing veils.

[Lacewing]

I'm fascinated by the different ways of being, here, under that umbrella of the strong drive to proclaim universal truth. Certainty. We are so fearful for our identity, ultimately in the face of permanent obliteration, that we will believe anything that pushes back against that void, down to the biased neuron.

Yes! Very interesting to consider.

How much of our thinking builds up our identity of separateness and rightness and immortal importance.

Reincarnation could be true... but in what way? Do we really think that human notions can encapsulate what's so very different from our linear and limited reality and awareness? The idea of coming back in some form that is still this particular identity... I don't know... it just doesn't make sense. Rather, the awareness that is not exclusive to my supposed identity can arise in all things. My supposed individual identity is like a temporary wave in an ocean... arising and returning into the ocean. When this particular form (human body) -- with all of its entertaining stories and ideas -- ceases, is there really anything separate that needs to go anywhere else? Why not be at home where we are?

One thing the vast majority do not like, believer or non, to the point of putting it in their blind spot, is infinity. It's the factiest fact of all.

It seems the awareness of a human being is both wonderful and terrifying. To create and imagine on so many levels, which we become attached to. Like being gods of our own creations. Yet, possibly forgetting or dismissing the larger system/collective that we must surely be part of, regardless of our temporary form. The rest of nature perceives and communicates and harmonizes in ways we can't even fathom... and does not worry about its existence or what will become of 'it'.

What if we could stop worrying or caring about infinity for 'ourselves'? What if we could see life as a shared dance in the moment? Then what would we hold over each other? How much more would we live fully in the moment if we weren't obsessing beyond it?

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I'm fascinated by the different ways of being, here, under that umbrella of the strong drive to proclaim universal truth. Certainty. We are so fearful for our identity, ultimately in the face of permanent obliteration, that we will believe anything that pushes back against that void, down to the biased neuron.

Yes! Very interesting to consider.

How much of our thinking builds up our identity of separateness and rightness and immortal importance.

Reincarnation could be true... but in what way? Do we really think that human notions can encapsulate what's so very different from our linear and limited reality and awareness? The idea of coming back in some form that is still this particular identity... I don't know... it just doesn't make sense. Rather, the awareness that is not exclusive to my supposed identity can arise in all things. My supposed individual identity is like a temporary wave in an ocean... arising and returning into the ocean. When this particular form (human body) -- with all of its entertaining stories and ideas -- ceases, is there really anything separate that needs to go anywhere else? Why not be at home where we are?

One thing the vast majority do not like, believer or non, to the point of putting it in their blind spot, is infinity. It's the factiest fact of all.

It seems the awareness of a human being is both wonderful and terrifying. To create and imagine on so many levels, which we become attached to. Like being gods of our own creations. Yet, possibly forgetting or dismissing the larger system/collective that we must surely be part of, regardless of our temporary form. The rest of nature perceives and communicates and harmonizes in ways we can't even fathom... and does not worry about its existence or what will become of 'it'.

What if we could stop worrying or caring about infinity for 'ourselves'? What if we could see life as a shared dance in the moment? Then what would we hold over each other? How much more would we live fully in the moment if we weren't obsessing beyond it?

Nice. Leading to that shining final paragraph. I don't countenance reincarnation, which seems unintendedly ironically amusing in a belief system that eschews attachment. You seem to be wrestling with the paradox of an awareness without fixed identity, in, as a continuous entity? I like the conclusion of being at home where we are. Despite it being a privilege.

Some of my best friends, my beloveds, are Jungians! And I love Doris Lessing's Canopus in Argus series. If only! And thanks, there is the thing with feathers that flutters last out of Pandora's box!

[Lacewing]

I'm posting in this thread because it's where I've had other recent posts, and I want to explain in case I suddenly disappear...

I ended up in the E.R. on Wednesday and was there for 7 hours while they came up with all sorts of horrifying possibilities. It's unusual for me to have or focus much on ailments, so it's bizarre when something sort of catastrophic suddenly arises, and I find myself facing/considering death more closely. I was quite certain I wouldn't live to see today. I was even giving my partner helpful notes for after I was gone. Well, I'm still here, at this moment. If I disappear, it's either because I'm no longer on this planet... or I don't want to post any more. I guess you won't know.

Here's the interesting part for me... despite loving life, I was ready to say, "I'm good, I can go." I think the doctor expected me to burst into tears, and I just looked at him and said, 'Okay'. I was more worried about how it would affect the people in my life. Perhaps if I'm actually going to stick around a while longer, I can use it wisely... despite all the insanity we're being bombarded with every day on the political stage(s). Sort of puts things in perspective. We're here to live vibrantly while we have the opportunity... not witness people being the worst examples of humanity.

Wishing all of us happiness and health while we're here!