Assisted Suicide for Mentally Ill

[stix99]

I think this service should be available to those with mental illness. I am not talking about acute depression - I am talking about psychotic disorders and other disorders which have been unsuccessfully treated with therapy and medication. Schizophrenia is a disease of the brain just like any other disease and should be treated as terminal in some cases. In my personal experiences I have lost family members, friends, acquaintances, job opportunities, but most of all I have missed out on the joys of life itself, of having friends and experiences and special moments, of experiencing the dignity of being a human being. I have tried to help myself in various ways through medication and therapy all of which have been unsuccessful. Throughout my late twenties I have been routinely mocked, scorned, spit on, harassed, told I am a reject, freak, a sick person. I have never harmed anyone or ever gotten in trouble with the law. No one has ever understood what was wrong with me except for maybe one psychiatrist I have met. No one has ever attempted to understand.

Because of the state I am in I believe it is my right to end my life in a dignified manner. I know there are currently laws in existing areas where assisted suicide is legal for persons with terminal illnesses such as cancer. But there seems to be an agenda where people believe those suffering with mental illness don't have the right to this type of service, as if we are sub-human. A life living with this type of disorder is not a life at all, it is a life outside life in which you are peering in but never get the chance to live it. It's a life of frustration and humiliation. I know in many cases that people with these disorders can change and still want to live. But there are others that can't and I think they should have the right to die.

I would like to write entire pages of the carnage I have suffered, but I know most would not read for the shear length of it. I will briefly summarize my ordeal. I am a 28 year old male that has a university degree in Computer Science. After numerous job losses due to psychotic episodes I am now living alone collecting a social security check to get by. I have been hospitalized numerous times before and have spent most of life living alone or in my parents basement. I barely leave my room. I sit in a bedroom nearly all day because I suffer from paranoid features, manic depression, and delusional thoughts. I have tried several anti-psychotic medications and therapy. I was benefiting positively from drugs at one time but unfortunately I started to develop horrible side effects which were intolerable to the point where I could no longer function. Over the course of time I have gradually gotten worse and most people have given up on me. To me this is an incurable terminal state and is no different than cancer. In fact I would trade cancer over this disease for the chance to be a normal person if at least for a short while.

[info]

Classic story. I'm sorry this hateful and insecure society has completely ground you down to the point you want to die. You should PM me, what country you're in, you could come live with me. I'm not gonna just lay down and die. As a social being I have a right to a society I can participate in and not be rejected and belittled constantly.

As for the philosophical question, it's a Catch-22. Similar to abortion or pedophilia, it pits rights against eachother, it is an invalid operation in liberal ideology. You can't do that with the liberal-calculator so to speak.

(Personally 2 things have inspired me to keep fighting: one is an appreciation of nature, especially cellular biology, i.e. the extremity of our situation: existing in the Universe. It's magic. The other thing is the fight. Despite appearances, you are not alone. Many of us have completely rejected social standards: it's all made up. We still love the people as people but we know they mean us harm, they are literally our enemies in a war to the death structurally: society against humanity. Take to the streets. Network. Educate yourself: what exact laws and statutes are in your way? What is the social dynamic? How does that work? And, get off the drugs. Society is sick, not you. Get that clear and front right now. If you drug yourself, you aren't going to feel the pain and the hurt that motivates you to lash out, to take action.)

[tbieter]

Classic story. I'm sorry this hateful and insecure society has completely ground you down to the point you want to die. You should PM me, what country you're in, you could come live with me. I'm not gonna just lay down and die. As a social being I have a right to a society I can participate in and not be rejected and belittled constantly.

As for the philosophical question, it's a Catch-22. Similar to abortion or pedophilia, it pits rights against eachother, it is an invalid operation in liberal ideology. You can't do that with the liberal-calculator so to speak.

(Personally 2 things have inspired me to keep fighting: one is an appreciation of nature, especially cellular biology, i.e. the extremity of our situation: existing in the Universe. It's magic. The other thing is the fight. Despite appearances, you are not alone. Many of us have completely rejected social standards: it's all made up. We still love the people as people but we know they mean us harm, they are literally our enemies in a war to the death structurally: society against humanity. Take to the streets. Network. Educate yourself: what exact laws and statutes are in your way? What is the social dynamic? How does that work? And, get off the drugs. Society is sick, not you. Get that clear and front right now. If you drug yourself, you aren't going to feel the pain and the hurt that motivates you to lash out, to take action.)

Classic: Blame "society".

[info]

A lot of us care about you stix99.

[stix99]

To Arising_uk.

Oh, so I can just pick up and go help others for a living? Did you not read the part about being mentally ill? Do you not think I've attempted many job opportunities and have tried to be a part of several organizations? You know what people like you are just a huge part of the problem. I honestly thought I should post this on a philosophy forum since euthanasia is technically a philosophy but the underlying science of the brain simply eludes you. You are utterly too lazy to study or understand what mental illness is. You know if they had a medication that worked for me I would not be here typing all this to you. I *would* be out there making a difference in the world.
Do you think mental illness is just something that people in the modern world make up as excuses for not living? Have you ever read any literature out there that this exists in the developing world as well? No you have not.

Look I'll get personal this disease is in my family. My biological mother spent most of her life avoiding others and also locked herself up in her room watching the Catholic channel as if God is speaking to her through the TV set. I'm sorry the idiot ever gave birth to me to be honest as she had no business having children. She eventually gave me away for adoption and went around the neighborhood trying to give some her other kids away.

That's only a small sample of this disease. In other cases women that suffer psychotic disorders can experience a severe post partum depression and in some cases I'm sure you have heard stories in the news about them killing or eating their babies. But, by your example they should have just sucked it up and gone out and helped others, that would solve the problem right?

Until they have proper medication that solve these issues, people with these handicaps that are self aware of them should have the right to die period. I'm not going to 'top myself off' and I don't intend to. I simply want to have an option open for when hope is utterly lost. People other than me have to live with far more horrifying experiences. I'll live it up to you honestly to read about schizophrenia sufferers and see if that opens your eye. But by your immature response I doubt you'll even bother. Maybe to you I am just genetic trash that should be disposed of.

[chaz wyman]

It seems to me that your problem is more to do with your personal history than any innate failing of the processing capacity of your brain.
My brother is schizophrenic and despite being brilliantly clever as a child and teenager would be totally unable to express him self in such a clear and meaningful way as we can see from you.

Mental illness has expanded into areas that previously would never be considered problematic. There is the ever present problem that drug companies and other purveyors of treatments have incentives to invent more illnesses. The result is the pharmacological penetration of society into areas that do not deserve treatments at all.

With a mother like that you have every right to be pissed off. But you are making a big mistake by making yourself a victim and deciding that you are ill. So what that you can't get on at work? So what that you have thought about killing yourself? This is part and parcel of every ones life. It is only the 'Stepford' families that go through life without problems. But do you want that for your life; gliding through soundlessly, and unfeeling until you expire at the end having never felt anything?
But anger, sadness, and confusion are not mental illnesses. They are par for the course in a normal life.

If you want to kill yourself - go a head and do it. It is the easiest thing to do; As easy as getting a hose on the exhaust pipe and breathing. Or putting your head in a gas oven and breathing. They are painless ways to go. If you had any gumption you could take a razor with you into the bath, and do your wrists. This has nothing to do with assisted suicide - you don't ned any help
http://www.euthanasia.cc/
But because you are actively writing here I know that you don't want to do that.
What you need to do is stop being so narcissistic, and stop being a bloody victim.
When you can shed your victimhood, then you can live.

Oh, so I can just pick up and go help others for a living? Did you not read the part about being mentally ill? Do you not think I've attempted many job opportunities and have tried to be a part of several organizations? You know what people like you are just a huge part of the problem. I honestly thought I should post this on a philosophy forum since euthanasia is technically a philosophy but the underlying science of the brain simply eludes you. You are utterly too lazy to study or understand what mental illness is. You know if they had a medication that worked for me I would not be here typing all this to you. I *would* be out there making a difference in the world.
Do you think mental illness is just something that people in the modern world make up as excuses for not living? Have you ever read any literature out there that this exists in the developing world as well? No you have not.

Look I'll get personal this disease is in my family. My biological mother spent most of her life avoiding others and also locked herself up in her room watching the Catholic channel as if God is speaking to her through the TV set. I'm sorry the idiot ever gave birth to me to be honest as she had no business having children. She eventually gave me away for adoption and went around the neighborhood trying to give some her other kids away.

That's only a small sample of this disease. In other cases women that suffer psychotic disorders can experience a severe post partum depression and in some cases I'm sure you have heard stories in the news about them killing or eating their babies. But, by your example they should have just sucked it up and gone out and helped others, that would solve the problem right?

Until they have proper medication that solve these issues, people with these handicaps that are self aware of them should have the right to die period. I'm not going to 'top myself off' and I don't intend to. I simply want to have an option open for when hope is utterly lost. People other than me have to live with far more horrifying experiences. I'll live it up to you honestly to read about schizophrenia sufferers and see if that opens your eye. But by your immature response I doubt you'll even bother. Maybe to you I am just genetic trash that should be disposed of.

[Arising_uk]

stix99,
I have requested the moderators to remove my words as in the cold light of day they were inappropriately harsh. Your post obviously struck a chord with me and in retrospect it'll be the three close family friends whose children have attempted suicide in the last two years, two successfully and the other is now a paraplegic and all three will be a terrible burden of guilt upon them for the rest of their lives, except the latter as they will also be an economic burden.

I humbly ask why you have not sectioned yourself and sought assistance from the authorities upon this matter? Is it that you live in the UK and pretty much the only way such as you can get this help is by proving a danger to others? If so I request you pick upon an authority figure rather than a member of the general public as we don't deserve such attention and an authority figure will gain you access to the help you need much quicker. Are there no schizophrenic help groups in your area that you can turn to?

Since you have posted in the ethics section and not the counseling one my opinion is no it is not ethical for you to request others to relieve you from the responsibility or burden of your life.

I do not think you genetically worthless or that you should be done away with, this is your opinion it seems.

I accept that given your history you will find it difficult to get a job but that is not what I said, as I think you should attempt to volunteer your services for free to those others in need, the soup kitchens or shelters may take you, but again I'm unsure of their practices now-a-days.

I think, given your words, that you need to reconsider if the side-effects of the drugs you were taking would not be the better option in your life?

[info]

My biological mother spent most of her life avoiding others and also locked herself up in her room watching the Catholic channel as if God is speaking to her through the TV set. I'm sorry the idiot ever gave birth to me to be honest as she had no business having children. She eventually gave me away for adoption and went around the neighborhood trying to give some her other kids away.
...
Until they have proper medication that solve these issues, people with these handicaps that are self aware of them should have the right to die period. I'm not going to 'top myself off' and I don't intend to. I simply want to have an option open for when hope is utterly lost. People other than me have to live with far more horrifying experiences. I'll live it up to you honestly to read about schizophrenia sufferers and see if that opens your eye. But by your immature response I doubt you'll even bother. Maybe to you I am just genetic trash that should be disposed of.

Re. assisted suicide for the mentally ill -- This is not going to happen in a liberal society, because, there is a consent issue: mentally ill people cannot consent, therefore they cannot be allowed to make grave decisions. You can imagine the abuses that might occur, suicide stations in poor neighborhoods, or Black neighborhoods etc. Whereas, it might not really be wrong just because it jams in the mechanics of liberal ideology and has risk for abuse.

Re. schizophrenia -- Although there is no doubt genetic basis for schizophrenia and other mental illnesses, because all the cells in the body carry identical genetics and yet are very specialized by form and function, we do not need to hypothesize a significant genetic difference between people to explain the variety; as in cells, received communications and morphogenic fields can explain just as well. Someone may be familiar with Marx's idea of class: worker, lumpenproletariat, capitalist and so on. There is also a psychological class structure: anxiety neurotics, depressives, psychotics, psychopaths, etc. Like the cogs of the vast machine that they are, each of the psychological classes has a role in the reproductive and metabolic operations of the social system. Schizophrenia and psychoticism have several functions: in the simplest explanation, psychoticism breaks up code and reorganizes it. The encoding done during the family period of life was not suitable for the subject's operation in the macrocosmic adult world, therefore the brain had to dissolve it's old connections and gates to recode. But this is not only something that affects people as young adults, it also affects for example immigrants or the homeless who are radically displaced from their initial coding environment. Further, like depression, anxiety and psychopathy, schizophrenia has specific function in capitalist society: overcoding all national, familial and personal values with the emergent exchangist axiom of capitalism. Schizophrenia also means a political-religious overcoming: while the anarchists destroy the external physical structure of the system, schizophrenia tears-up the internal structures. Psychosis is the God-head of freedom and creativity: it is the psychotic melt-down of the crystallized neurotic stereotypies, i.e. Oedipal society. While schizophrenia is revolutionary, or at least the advanced guard of universal capitalism, depression is not; it's social-structural function is to enslave: demoralize and undermine the will to resist: generating subservience to the psychopaths and their middle-men the anxiety neurotics. To learn more about this interesting subject, look for the philosophical series "Capitalism and Schizophrenia", Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus, by the well known post-modern philosophers Gilles Deleuze and Félix Guattari; they call their philosophical method "schizoanalysis"; you might find that interesting.
_________________________
SDG

[tbieter]

I think this service should be available to those with mental illness. I am not talking about acute depression - I am talking about psychotic disorders and other disorders which have been unsuccessfully treated with therapy and medication. Schizophrenia is a disease of the brain just like any other disease and should be treated as terminal in some cases. In my personal experiences I have lost family members, friends, acquaintances, job opportunities, but most of all I have missed out on the joys of life itself, of having friends and experiences and special moments, of experiencing the dignity of being a human being. I have tried to help myself in various ways through medication and therapy all of which have been unsuccessful. Throughout my late twenties I have been routinely mocked, scorned, spit on, harassed, told I am a reject, freak, a sick person. I have never harmed anyone or ever gotten in trouble with the law. No one has ever understood what was wrong with me except for maybe one psychiatrist I have met. No one has ever attempted to understand.

Because of the state I am in I believe it is my right to end my life in a dignified manner. I know there are currently laws in existing areas where assisted suicide is legal for persons with terminal illnesses such as cancer. But there seems to be an agenda where people believe those suffering with mental illness don't have the right to this type of service, as if we are sub-human. A life living with this type of disorder is not a life at all, it is a life outside life in which you are peering in but never get the chance to live it. It's a life of frustration and humiliation. I know in many cases that people with these disorders can change and still want to live. But there are others that can't and I think they should have the right to die.

I would like to write entire pages of the carnage I have suffered, but I know most would not read for the shear length of it. I will briefly summarize my ordeal. I am a 28 year old male that has a university degree in Computer Science. After numerous job losses due to psychotic episodes I am now living alone collecting a social security check to get by. I have been hospitalized numerous times before and have spent most of life living alone or in my parents basement. I barely leave my room. I sit in a bedroom nearly all day because I suffer from paranoid features, manic depression, and delusional thoughts. I have tried several anti-psychotic medications and therapy. I was benefiting positively from drugs at one time but unfortunately I started to develop horrible side effects which were intolerable to the point where I could no longer function. Over the course of time I have gradually gotten worse and most people have given up on me. To me this is an incurable terminal state and is no different than cancer. In fact I would trade cancer over this disease for the chance to be a normal person if at least for a short while.

Here is a book that might be helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Anarchy-Schizoana ... 093675639X

[Arising_uk]

...
Re. schizophrenia -- Although there is no doubt genetic basis for schizophrenia and other mental illnesses, because all the cells in the body carry identical genetics and yet are very specialized by form and function, we do not need to hypothesize a significant genetic difference between people to explain the variety; as in cells, received communications and morphogenic fields can explain just as well. ...

Apart from the fact that no-one has shown that Sheldrake's fields exist? So gayness can't have a genetic basis, nor sexuality but schizophrenia and the mental illnesses can? That's handy for you.

[info]

Everyone has the gay gene, it's called the Human Genome; everyone can become psychotic, it's normal.

[Arising_uk]

Everyone has the gay gene, it's called the Human Genome; everyone can become psychotic, it's normal.

If you mean everyone could have sex with the same sex and find something pleasurable in the action then I guess I'd agree with you. So my advice to stix99 to choose not to be schizophrenic was sound then? Although the gay and mentally ill would appear to disagree with your words. So tell me, when did you choose to find the same sex attractive? Although I assume you must be bi-sexual in this matter.

[info]

You're wrong about Sheldrake. He rocks! Into paranormal too he is, every genius needs a little insanity. Morphogenic fields are in again, they're emergent and post-modern. Signals and fields apply to the individual in society as to the cell in the body in a similar way. Cell-Organism-Society.

Free-will and determinism are both true.

[Arising_uk]

"emergent and post-modern" - this means what in Science? Sheldrake has never been out of fashion with the post-modernist as it suits their bs.

"Free will" - So not a Nietzscheian then but a secret god-botherer.

[info]

"emergent and post-modern" - this means what in Science? Sheldrake has never been out of fashion with the post-modernist as it suits their bs.

"Free will" - So not a Nietzscheian then but a secret god-botherer.

• "[T]he number of "chromosonal" homosexuals is insignificant."
  
  - Guy Hocquenghem, Homosexual Desire

This dude Hocquenghem took D&G's schizoanalysis and applied it to homosexuality to create the world's first queer theory. Sheldrake knows that morphogenic fields are not real, he specifically writes that they are 'imaginary' and 'only ideas to help us understand' ontology and morphogenesis. "Fields are more extensive than material objects" says Sheldrake, similarly at the social plane in McLuhan this becomes machines as an extension of our body, or in Melanie Klein, the person is an assemblage of partial objects which are parts of bigger social machines, some of which have been outlined by heavy use, these are the institutions like government or paved roads or schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a field theory. Homosexuality is also a field theory. We don't like to call it purpose exactly with life, but schizophrenia has a function, or several, in the sense that the tongue does, or the field of vision or toes. The function of a schizophrenic is to decode; in both senses: 1 to unplug whole sequences of meme-code, and then discard them or rearrange where they will fit new, (this is mostly a random trial-and-error process as in infancy or scientific method), and 2, to bring about a new understanding: to successfully decode a previously inexplicable passage and make it sensible 'again'.
______________________________
SDG