Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

[accelafine]

The world community finds the war in Gaza not to be a war, but an example of genocide, of ethnic cleansing. Both the American House of Isreal and Zionist Isreal are evil forces in the world today. The American House of Isreal, called that because the government has been usurped by Zionist Jews, and Isreal itself, clings to the tradition of colonization and indeed world domination. Supernatural beings for me have nothing to do with judging morality, The world will find America and Zionist Israel guilty of mass murder unless these evil forces are successful in dominating the world.

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I believe our views depend upon the information and historical understanding we have been exposed to. Mainly because I suspect your humanity is just as healthy as my own. Hostilities began in 1946 with the recognition of Israel as a legitimate state and done so by Western interests. The ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in occupied Palestine started about seventy-five years ago. Israel is not a democratic country, it is an apartheid government the same as what South Africa had in the past, which the West was comfortable with. Israel is perhaps more violent than the former regime of South Africa. You need to understand that Zionist Israel decides American foreign policy, they have usurped/read bought the American congress. Then know that the American propaganda machine is the most powerful in the world. I am no fan of Islam; I believe the Chinese are correct in categorizing Islam as a mental illness, and we in the West should follow suit. I however do not think there is any circumstance in the world where genocide is morally acceptable. For this genocide to be ongoing in direct opposition to world opinion is breathtaking to most of the world. Power and propaganda may work to justify genocide to those exposed to its power the longest, read the American people, but it is what it is.

Apartheid applies ONLY to South Africa, so shove your disingenuous, hypocritical, self-serving abuse of language up your fundamental orifice.

[Age]

What if we (Americans) are morally wrong to back Israel and enable Israel's campaign in Gaza? What if Israel is morally wrong in its conduct of the war against Gaza? Then what? Do we keep doing what we are doing even though it would be morally wrong to do so? What would be said of us in the end? Would it not matter? What would God think of us? Would it not matter?

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024 ... ia-incited

Finally, the question: ARE we morally wrong? Is Israel morally wrong? And how can we know or find out an answer to that question in the middle of a war?

The world community finds the war in Gaza not to be a war, but an example of genocide, of ethnic cleansing. Both the American House of Isreal and Zionist Isreal are evil forces in the world today. The American House of Isreal, called that because the government has been usurped by Zionist Jews, and Isreal itself, clings to the tradition of colonization and indeed world domination. Supernatural beings for me have nothing to do with judging morality, The world will find America and Zionist Israel guilty of mass murder unless these evil forces are successful in dominating the world.

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for?

ALL CHILDREN.

Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities.

Since WHEN, EXACTLY?

And, WHY, EXACTLY?

Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated.

Here, 'we' can CLEARLY SEE another one with A "one sided" VIEW, and PERSPECTIVE.

It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields.

SO WHAT?

you human beings can and do 'argue' FOR and AGAINST MANY, MANY things.

With not much luck nor actual success I will add.

Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas?

LOL

OBVIOUSLY 'this one's' "ONE SIDEDNESS" is BLOCKING and PREVENTING it from SEEING the ACTUAL Truth, here.

Just like you, "gary childress" 'wishing' to live under the 'governance' that you do, instead of 'other ones', SO TO do 'the others' 'wish' to live under 'the governance' that they are ALSO USED TO.

USING your OWN 'past experiences' to LOOK AT, and/or JUDGE, 'others', and 'the world', around you, then 'you' WILL BE LED ASTRAY.

If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

The 'governance', which you 'live under' is, essentially, NO better than the ones that you are LOOKING ST, and JUDGING, here.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

you are absolutely FREE to go and ROOT FOR absolutely ANY one you like. However, what you BASING who you ROOT FOR, EXACTLY, besides your OWN PERSONAL 'past experiences', ONLY, of course?

[Age]

''Mark all as read''. Does the creepy little austist with compulsive argumentative disorder i. e. Ken, not realise that all of his posts, no matter who they are directed at, or on what topic, are EXACTLY the same, so there's no point in reading any of it?

LOL
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' are EXACTLY 'the same' '. LOL

The truly pathetic part is that he believes he's some kind of genius:

LOL
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LOL

Obviously what 'this one's' ASSUMES, here, and BELIEVES IS ABSOLUTELY True, could NOT BE MORE False AND Wrong.

[accelafine]

He's breaking up.....
LOL
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LOL

[popeye1945]

What if we (Americans) are morally wrong to back Israel and enable Israel's campaign in Gaza? What if Israel is morally wrong in its conduct of the war against Gaza? Then what? Do we keep doing what we are doing even though it would be morally wrong to do so? What would be said of us in the end? Would it not matter? What would God think of us? Would it not matter?

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024 ... ia-incited

Finally, the question: ARE we morally wrong? Is Israel morally wrong? And how can we know or find out an answer to that question in the middle of a war?

The world community finds the war in Gaza not to be a war, but an example of genocide, of ethnic cleansing. Both the American House of Isreal and Zionist Isreal are evil forces in the world today. The American House of Isreal, called that because the government has been usurped by Zionist Jews, and Isreal itself, clings to the tradition of colonization and indeed world domination. Supernatural beings for me have nothing to do with judging morality, The world will find America and Zionist Israel guilty of mass murder unless these evil forces are successful in dominating the world.

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

[accelafine]

The world community finds the war in Gaza not to be a war, but an example of genocide, of ethnic cleansing. Both the American House of Isreal and Zionist Isreal are evil forces in the world today. The American House of Isreal, called that because the government has been usurped by Zionist Jews, and Isreal itself, clings to the tradition of colonization and indeed world domination. Supernatural beings for me have nothing to do with judging morality, The world will find America and Zionist Israel guilty of mass murder unless these evil forces are successful in dominating the world.

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

'Politically incorrect' to criticise Israel? Which rock have you been living under? It's the most woke i.e. 'politically CORRECT' stance anyone can have these days and goes hand in hand with that other tedious bandwagon beloved by wokies; 'transrights'. Not exactly sure what the two have in common--you would need to ask a wokie that. Wokies like to pick out the most degenerate creeps of humanity (they recognise kindred spirits) and champion them as 'vulnerable' and 'oppressed'.

[Age]

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

'Politically incorrect' to criticise Israel? Which rock have you been living under? It's the most woke i.e. 'politically CORRECT' stance anyone can have these days and goes hand in hand with that other tedious bandwagon beloved by wokies; 'transrights'. Not exactly sure what the two have in common--you would need to ask a wokie that. Wokies like to pick out the most degenerate creeps of humanity (they recognise kindred spirits) and champion them as 'vulnerable' and 'oppressed'.

'This', coming FROM the BIGGEST "wokie", here.

If absolutely ANY one just EXPRESSES the IRREFUTABLE Truth ABOUT what the people in "israel" are ACTUALLY DOING you want to CRY OUT "antisemitism". In the 'current' society it is the most woke, and politically CORRECT stance any one can have 'these days', when this is being written.

PROTECTION FOR ALL "jews" is what the "WOKEST of wokies" KEEP CRYING OUT FOR.

[accelafine]

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

'Politically incorrect' to criticise Israel? Which rock have you been living under? It's the most woke i.e. 'politically CORRECT' stance anyone can have these days and goes hand in hand with that other tedious bandwagon beloved by wokies; 'transrights'. Not exactly sure what the two have in common--you would need to ask a wokie that. Wokies like to pick out the most degenerate creeps of humanity (they recognise kindred spirits) and champion them as 'vulnerable' and 'oppressed'.

'This', coming FROM the BIGGEST "wokie", here.

If absolutely ANY one just EXPRESSES the IRREFUTABLE Truth ABOUT what the people in "israel" are ACTUALLY DOING you want to CRY OUT "antisemitism". In the 'current' society it is the most woke, and politically CORRECT stance any one can have 'these days', when this is being written.

PROTECTION FOR ALL "jews" is what the "WOKEST of wokies" KEEP CRYING OUT FOR.

LOL
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LOL

[Gary Childress]

The world community finds the war in Gaza not to be a war, but an example of genocide, of ethnic cleansing. Both the American House of Isreal and Zionist Isreal are evil forces in the world today. The American House of Isreal, called that because the government has been usurped by Zionist Jews, and Isreal itself, clings to the tradition of colonization and indeed world domination. Supernatural beings for me have nothing to do with judging morality, The world will find America and Zionist Israel guilty of mass murder unless these evil forces are successful in dominating the world.

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

We did live in a very democratic country before Trump took over. The Democrats were pretty much hands-off of protestors. Trump probably wouldn't be in power today had Russia not invaded Ukraine after Biden withdrew from Afghanistan, making Biden look "weak". The US has pulled out of every country it's invaded in the last 70 years due to public dissent. Good luck to dissenters opposing Putin, Jin Ping or Un. They are usually locked up in prisons. The US does not lock up protestors in prison just for peacefully demonstrating. Not sure what country you live in but it must not be the US.

[accelafine]

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

We did live in a very democratic country before Trump took over. The Democrats were pretty much hands-off of protestors. Trump probably wouldn't be in power today had Russia not invaded Ukraine after Biden withdrew from Afghanistan, making Biden look "weak". The US has pulled out of every country it's invaded in the last 70 years due to public dissent. Good luck to dissenters opposing Putin, Jin Ping or Un. They are usually locked up in prisons. The US does not lock up protestors in prison just for peacefully demonstrating. Not sure what country you live in but it must not be the US.

FFS. They aren't even 'protestors'. They are paid shills of Hamas. Chanting 'death to Jews' and attacking Jewish students is hardly 'protesting'. They are fuckwits trying to bring down what those morons think of as 'the establishment'. Universities these days are infested with them.

[popeye1945]

The world community finds the war in Gaza not to be a war, but an example of genocide, of ethnic cleansing. Both the American House of Isreal and Zionist Isreal are evil forces in the world today. The American House of Isreal, called that because the government has been usurped by Zionist Jews, and Isreal itself, clings to the tradition of colonization and indeed world domination. Supernatural beings for me have nothing to do with judging morality, The world will find America and Zionist Israel guilty of mass murder unless these evil forces are successful in dominating the world.

The US and Israel are relatively open societies (liberal democracies) that do not forcibly quell dissent among their own citizenry. The same does not appear to apply to Hamas' rule of Gaza. Maybe it comes down to pragmatics. In the end, which government deserves to prevail? Do totalitarian governments deserve to prevail over liberal democracies?

Who should we stick up for or root for? Hamas seems to have initiated hostilities. Israel's response was brutal but arguably a pragmatic one to get rid of a neighboring government that would have continued hostilities had it not been defeated. It is arguable that Hamas deliberately used its civilians as shields. Should any of us wish for Hamas to prevail? Would any of us wish to live under a governance such as that of Hamas? If we would not wish to live under the governance of a group like Hamas, then should we zealously admonish Israel--essentially undermining a liberal democracy in favor of a totalitarian society?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, however, at second glance, it seems like maybe we should root for Israel under the circumstances.

I am afraid I can't turn your argument around as long as you still believe you live in a democracy. Presently they are coming down hard on students protesting, arresting, and threatening their futures in the academic world. You haven't noticed that it is politically incorrect to criticize Israel? The fact that America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950, and you can fact-check that, should give you pause for wonder.

It doesn't bother you that Zionist Israel decides American foreign policy, that didn't begin with Trump, though he too is owned. It is more than natural for an individual to take the part of the country they live within, like inheriting one's religion of place. If you wish for a world of cooperation rather than violent colonialism, you should think as a global citizen. The world is an interrelated, interdependent global society, the old world of empire needs to go. The bad guys have always been out there, it is time for a social evolutionary change. America wishes to rule the world, but the world says no. The BRICS federation of nations embraces the interrelated, interdependent concept of the world, a multipolar world, not the unipolar world of the American empire, food for thought.

[Mickey76]

Reading through the discussion, it seems like most people are working with different definitions of “genocide”, “morality” or even “liberal democracy”. Isn’t the real issue that we can’t even agree on the moral framework before judging the actions of either side?

If we can’t settle on what’s morally “wrong” in principle (apart from emotional reactions), how can we make sense of such a complex situation in Gaza?

Because what they have to put up with isn't great, it would be nice if they were allowed to raise the Palestinian flag again in peace.

[FlashDangerpants]

Reading through the discussion, it seems like most people are working with different definitions of “genocide”, “morality” or even “liberal democracy”. Isn’t the real issue that we can’t even agree on the moral framework before judging the actions of either side?

If we can’t settle on what’s morally “wrong” in principle (apart from emotional reactions), how can we make sense of such a complex situation in Gaza?

That's not really applied ethic, it's ethical theory. In applied ethics it might be seen as wrong to delay actions that would prevent schoolchildren getting incinerated at their desks until we are all in agreement that this not an ideal way to punish their parents for celebrating the death of a neighbour's wife.

[Perspective]

…So it doesn't look like ChatGPT can give us a definitive answer as to whether Israel is wrong or not (and by extension the US--for assisting them)…

Who do you think controls the narrative?
This is messy psychological warfare that has incorporated religion for centuries. Many people are like cult members and may never see beyond what they’re told to see.

Read first the Talmud which says “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15). Goyim = all non-Jews. You might also read the 2009 book, “How to Kill Goyim and Influence People.” “…The book reaches into the Torah, or Old Testament, and finds ample evidence that the killing of Gentiles, even small children, is completely justified by Jewish religious law. The authors state “If we kill a gentile who has violated one of the seven commandments [of Noah] . . . there is nothing wrong with the murder.”
And some years ago, a US president signed onto Noahide laws.

Who is Jew? They’re supposed to be ethnically from Palestine & religiously practice Judaism. Neither applies to most self-proclaimed Jews. Ashkinazi are Eastern European. Most real Jews were killed as the protocols say, they were willing to sacrifice their brethren to basically ride on the victim mentality and ability to get away with murder for others’ fear of being labeled “antisemitic.”

This is like an “Oz behind the curtain” circumstance.
“If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize.” – Voltaire

[accelafine]

…So it doesn't look like ChatGPT can give us a definitive answer as to whether Israel is wrong or not (and by extension the US--for assisting them)…

Who do you think controls the narrative?
This is messy psychological warfare that has incorporated religion for centuries. Many people are like cult members and may never see beyond what they’re told to see.

Read first the Talmud which says “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15). Goyim = all non-Jews. You might also read the 2009 book, “How to Kill Goyim and Influence People.” “…The book reaches into the Torah, or Old Testament, and finds ample evidence that the killing of Gentiles, even small children, is completely justified by Jewish religious law. The authors state “If we kill a gentile who has violated one of the seven commandments [of Noah] . . . there is nothing wrong with the murder.”
And some years ago, a US president signed onto Noahide laws.

Who is Jew? They’re supposed to be ethnically from Palestine & religiously practice Judaism. Neither applies to most self-proclaimed Jews. Ashkinazi are Eastern European. Most real Jews were killed as the protocols say, they were willing to sacrifice their brethren to basically ride on the victim mentality and ability to get away with murder for others’ fear of being labeled “antisemitic.”

This is like an “Oz behind the curtain” circumstance.
“If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize.” – Voltaire

Who aren't we 'allowed' to criticise? Muslims (number one), men who larp as 'wimmin' (number two). Calling for the death of Jews is perfectly acceptable and even fashionable at this time.