Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

There are various types of Moral Realism and Objectivism; mine is the Kantian type plus plus. I would call it Moral Empirical Realism.

Here is ChatGpt [wR] on the issue:
VA to ChatGpt wrote:Moral Realism [Objectivism] versus Moral Relativism
What are the strengths [Pros] and weaknesses [Cons] of each.
What is the overall advantage that one has over the other?

My view is Moral Realism [Objectivism] is more favorable in terms of meeting the Kant's Mission and Vision of 'what can we hope for?' i.e. perpetual peace at least in theory and driven regulatively by the categorical imperative as the ideal standards for continual improvements.
On the other hand, moral relativism has to respect the moral views of other cultures and traditions even if one disagrees with them.
As such there is no objective standard that humanity can ground to leverage continuous moral improvements toward the ideal.
ChatGPT said:
Here’s an analysis of Moral Realism (Objectivism) versus Moral Relativism, with pros, cons, and comparisons in light of Kant's vision.

Moral Realism (Objectivism)
Pros:
1. Universal Standards: Provides a shared foundation for determining right and wrong across cultures, supporting Kant's ideal of universal moral standards.
2. Ground for Improvement: Objective morality can serve as a regulative ideal, allowing humanity to work toward continuous moral improvement. Kant’s categorical imperative, for instance, becomes a guiding benchmark.
3. Rational Justification: Moral realism often emphasizes reason as the basis for moral truths, aligning with Kant’s emphasis on rationality in ethics.

Cons:
1. Debates over Moral Facts: Defining objective moral facts is contentious; realism risks oversimplifying complex moral issues.
2. Cultural Insensitivity: Some critics argue that applying universal moral standards can marginalize cultural diversity, leading to ethical imperialism.
3. Practical Limitations: Translating objective moral principles into specific laws and policies can be challenging given diverse human needs and situations.

Moral Relativism
Pros:
1. Cultural Respect: Allows for the recognition and appreciation of moral diversity, respecting each culture’s values and traditions.
2. Flexibility: Moral relativism adapts easily to changing social norms and unique contexts, enabling nuanced approaches to ethical dilemmas.
3. Avoids Absolutism: By not assuming universal standards, relativism avoids the rigidity that can arise in objective moral systems.
Cons:
1. No Objective Ground for Improvement: Without universal standards, moral relativism lacks a clear foundation for guiding global moral progress or continuous improvement toward an ideal.
2. Potential for Moral Inaction: Relativism can make it difficult to condemn harmful practices in other cultures if those practices align with local traditions.
3. Challenges with Conflict Resolution: In cases of moral disagreements, relativism offers no overarching standard to resolve conflicts, potentially leading to ethical standstills.

Overall Advantage
Moral Realism’s advantage lies in its capacity to provide an ideal-driven framework, which, as you noted, aligns with Kant’s vision of perpetual peace.
This framework could support continuous moral improvement by establishing an objective ideal, such as the categorical imperative, as a regulative principle that cultures can strive toward.
In contrast, Moral Relativism’s inherent flexibility and respect for diversity can make it difficult to leverage for global moral progress, as it lacks the universal benchmark necessary for achieving an ideal state.
Thus, in pursuing Kantian ideals, Moral Realism aligns more naturally with an aspirational and regulative approach toward continuous moral improvement.
There are cons against Moral Realism [objectivism] and they can easily be reduced and eliminated. I have done so which ChatGpt agreed with. [not presenting them in this OP]

On the other hand, Moral Relativism by definition and nature does not facilitate moral competence and moral progress within humanity.

Discuss??
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Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Notes:
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Notes:
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

No moral relativists defending their position?
Iwannaplato
Posts: 8528
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:25 am No moral relativists defending their position?
Since nearly everyone here can use online AIs what precisely is your function? Middleman?
Why would anyone respond to you. They could investigate via AIs, debate with them, take arguments from one and put them in another. This is faster than using you as an odd filter. You're not a native speaker of English, so those who are can be more confident in their own prompts and queries. They can do follow-up questions quite easily, rather than waiting around for you to feed their responses into the AI via your biased prompts.

What's your use?

The AI's even manage to admit they make mistakes in the face of criticisms. They are following their programs and algorithms when they do this, but the end product mimics more integrity than we can expect from you.

Yeah, still can't see any purpose for you in this process.
popeye1945
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Moral Realism [Objectivism] vs Moral Relativism

Post by popeye1945 »

Moral relativism is global chaos because it is not based on human commonality, but on ancient mythologies and inadequate philosophies. Continuity is not possible under such conditions. A universal morality must be based again on a commonality, and the one universal commonality is our common biology, its survival and well-being. The basis of moral objectivism is again biology. Biology is the source of all meaning, and measures, a morality based upon anything else, is to create chaos/moral relativism. In the absence of a conscious subject, there are no objects, no objectivity, in the absence of the object/s, there would be no conscious subject.

Andrea, Welcome aboard!!
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