Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

seeds wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:44 pm Are you kidding?

I have pretty much spent my entire adult life trying to use reason (scientific reasoning) to support my religious sentiment which was ignited five and a half decades ago as explained in my "Burning Bush" thread, here
I am not kidding.

Look at your sentence: using reason, and a view of science, to support religious sentiment.

And then a reference to a dramatic, meaningful experience.

It is the dramatic meaningful experience that is the core. And that is not an experience in the realm of reason.

Case closed.

Guttersnipe? I had to look that up. That’s cold!

And Cheech & Chong. WTF??? 😳 Some stoned hippy comedians?!?

What next?!?
guttersnipe (ˈɡʌtəˌsnaɪp)
n
1. a child who spends most of his time in the streets, esp in a slum area
2. a person regarded as having the behaviour, morals, etc, of one brought up in squalor
[C19: originally a name applied to the common snipe (the bird), then to a person who gathered refuse from gutters in city streets]
Atla
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Atla »

seeds wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:44 pm Are you kidding?

I have pretty much spent my entire adult life trying to use reason (scientific reasoning) to support my religious sentiment which was ignited five and a half decades ago
And yet in half a century it never occured to you to look up the actual science of QM.
seeds
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by seeds »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:21 am
seeds wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:44 pm Are you kidding?

I have pretty much spent my entire adult life trying to use reason (scientific reasoning) to support my religious sentiment which was ignited five and a half decades ago as explained in my "Burning Bush" thread, here: viewtopic.php?t=41452
I am not kidding.

Look at your sentence: using reason, and a view of science, to support religious sentiment.

And then a reference to a dramatic, meaningful experience.

It is the dramatic meaningful experience that is the core. And that is not an experience in the realm of reason.

Case closed.
Case reopened.

I was responding to this...
The Hyperbolic Apollyon wrote: There is no reasoned argument for the manifest world, existence & being.
However, according to Google AI Overview...
AI Overview wrote: A reasoned argument is a discussion that uses evidence and reasoning to support a conclusion.
To which I claim to be using "evidence and reasoning" based on the implications of quantum physics to support (argue for) the "conclusion" that the universe is the Mind of a higher (incorporeal) Consciousness.

Hence, a "reasoned argument."

Again, it can be argued that my argument is horse crap, but it cannot be argued that I'm not making a "reasoned argument" (at least according to the above definition by AI Overview).
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:21 am Guttersnipe? I had to look that up. That’s cold!
Come on, it's just a playful little word that randomly popped into my head as I was composing my response (I had to look it up too :D).

I'm sure you're just joking about it being cold, but if not, then why aren't you complaining about being called "Hyperbolic Apollyon"?
AI Overview wrote: Hyperbolic:
A hyperbolic person is someone who tends to exaggerate things, making them seem bigger or better than they actually are. The term "hyperbolic" comes from the word "hyperbole," which means an exaggerated claim.
Apollyon:
AI Overview wrote: Apollyon is a Greek name for the destroyer, a spiritual being or place in Christian theology. It is also the name of a fallen angel in the Bible.

In the Bible
  • In the Book of Revelation, Apollyon is the name given to the angel who is the king of an army of locusts.
  • Apollyon is also known as the angel of the bottomless pit.
  • The Hebrew name for Apollyon is Abaddon, which means "destruction" or "doom".
I'm guessing that the reason why you didn't make a stink about that moniker is because you kind of like the thought of being "...the king of an army of locusts...," right? :wink:
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:21 am And Cheech & Chong. WTF??? 😳 Some stoned hippy comedians?!?

What next?!?
You need to take that one up with brother Dubious.

I'm probably wrong, but I suspect that he was just offering some light-hearted self-deprecation to maybe address the awkwardness of me stating that I am a fan of both his and your posts.

And just to be clear, you guys are funny sometimes, but you're not Cheech and Chong funny. :P
_______
Last edited by seeds on Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atla
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Atla »

It's Hyperbulimic, not Hyperbolic.
Belinda
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Belinda »

Atla wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 4:24 am
seeds wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:44 pm Are you kidding?

I have pretty much spent my entire adult life trying to use reason (scientific reasoning) to support my religious sentiment which was ignited five and a half decades ago
And yet in half a century it never occured to you to look up the actual science of QM.
The third person of the Trinity is not and will never be revealed by science
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

seeds wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 4:44 am To which I claim to be using "evidence and reasoning" based on the implications of quantum physics to support (argue for) the "conclusion" that the universe is the Mind of a higher (incorporeal) Consciousness.
Here is where I think we can link the ideas under examination back to what had been a focus on the praxis of BigMike. The point I would make is related to Richard Weaver and also Thomas Carlyle’s views.

In Weaver’s case his notion that we all have “a metaphysical dream of the world”.

And Carlyle’s:
But the thing a man does practically believe (and this is often enough without asserting it even to himself, much less to others); the thing a man does practically lay to heart, and know for certain, concerning his vital relations to this mysterious Universe, and his duty and destiny there, that is in all cases the primary thing for him, and creatively determines all the rest. That is his religion; or, it may be, his mere scepticism and no-religion: the manner it is in which he feels himself to be spiritually related to the Unseen World or No-World; and I say, if you tell me what that is, you tell me to a very great extent what the man is, what the kind of things he will do is.
Now Atla (an occulted Master of the New Nondualism) has exclaimed that this forum has been infiltrated by the Nutjobs of Religious Belief. OK, very well. But what I notice is the degree to which BigMike who is emblematic of the intellectual period we are in, very definitely came here to present (as a mountebank with a whole set if •tricks•!) a “metaphysical dream”.

Really & truly!

It is comparable to an immense religious-mythological invention. However, it grounds itself in those congeries of “facts” that Dubious — our own 1,500 years old Ancient of Days and All-Around Grumpasaurus — holds to with such ferocity.

One man clutches his Rosary and another his Hard Facts …

What is extraordinary about BigMike (I will recite the Story of his Advent to my grandchildren certainly!) is the degree and intensity of his convictions. Bordering on hysteria. (Not joking).

What I take this to mean, which I link with everything going on around us, is that •people seem to go nuts under the pressures exerted by the present• which excites their psyches in such notable and strange ways.
that the universe is the Mind of a higher (incorporeal) Consciousness.
I absolutely agree. But really you are not saying anything substantially different than, for example, IC who gets so much flak as PN’s resident Christian Wacko. The details of a •metaphysical dream• are relevant insofar as the theological principles that are defined by that •dream• can be enunciated. It is the quality of the theology that has relevancy.

And the value of the theologically defined principles can only be grasped on that intellectual level (intellectus) that René Guénon goes on about in his discourse.

Therefore, it all turns back to the intellect when it is defined as the core of the possibility of defining what Life and Existence mean.

In the intellect, therefore, resides the possibility and the potential to realize all that we may mean (must ultimately mean) when we refer to spirituality.

What is additionally curious about the PN space — it must be similar in all such spaces — is the degree to which Conventional Religious Models are rejected with scorn and even a sort of virulent violence …

… while simultaneously those who do so either cut their own branch, and that of others, or like BigMike cone rolling in with a Fantastic Alternative to a genuine existential conviction that, clearly, serves the function of a classical Metaphysical Dream.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Belinda wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:41 pm The third person of the Trinity is not and will never be revealed by science
:::sigh:::

I go into this, in DEPTH, in the 47th Chapter, Subsection 5 in the Sixth Book of The 15-Week Email Course!

(I am going back through it just now REPLACING important lower-case WORDS and PHRASES with ALL CAPS out of EMULATION of our own dreamer Monsieur AGE.)
Atla
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Atla »

Belinda wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 12:41 pm
Atla wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 4:24 am
seeds wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:44 pm Are you kidding?

I have pretty much spent my entire adult life trying to use reason (scientific reasoning) to support my religious sentiment which was ignited five and a half decades ago
And yet in half a century it never occured to you to look up the actual science of QM.
The third person of the Trinity is not and will never be revealed by science
Okay
Atla
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Atla »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:12 pm Now Atla (an occulted Master of the New Nondualism)
Ten thousand years before Apollos and Hyperboreans and Sat-Gurus and Mahatmas, during the true Golden Age, during the "First Time" or zep tepi or however you want to call it, the gods themselves walked the Earth. And my people, the Atlanteans, ascended to the heavens on golden wings.

I'm of course the human channeling the distant echo, the memory of Atla the Atlantean, one of the great ancient philosopher-kings of Atlantis. The perfect moment of mankind isn't in the future, it was in the past, in the very distant past. We Atlanteans were the ones to experience it. Unfortunately you never will.

We reached the heavens, moved on the next plane, only after that did our island sink into the sea. Those who came after us didn't progress, on the contrary, only their technology progressed and will end up destroying them, and technology is lifeless. But their souls kept regressing. The echo of Atla watched the world change throughout all the ages.

You think that nondualism is some great wisdom? That it's occult? It's nothing, it's one of the simplest and most commonplace of insights. Everyone was a nondualist until the end of the Bronze age actually, only after that did even this knowledge get lost, and my people were already gone for many thousands of years by the time of the Bronze age.

Apollo of the Greeks? Christian spirituality? The spirit just regressed further and further. Saw less. Felt less. Understood less. Now today people know nothing, and even those very few who spend a lifetime contemplating their existence, still know almost nothing.

Such is the natural order of things.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

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I have been upstaged! A New Guru has become manifest.

All bow before His glory!

How must we live?! What must we do?!

May the Oracle speak and guide …
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by attofishpi »

Atla wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 6:32 pm Apollo of the Greeks? Christian spirituality? The spirit just regressed further and further.
I am a Christian, am I allowed to also have the opinion that I am a nondualist?
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

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attofishpi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:27 pm
Atla wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 6:32 pm Apollo of the Greeks? Christian spirituality? The spirit just regressed further and further.
I am a Christian, am I allowed to also have the opinion that I am a nondualist?
Yes my child, although Christian gnostic nondualism has about as much to do with the cosmic nondualism that the Atlanteans realized, as sky diving does with jumping from a chair while being high.
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Dubious »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:12 pmIt is comparable to an immense religious-mythological invention. However, it grounds itself in those congeries of “facts” that Dubious — our own 1,500 years old Ancient of Days and All-Around Grumpasaurus — holds to with such ferocity.
Never underestimate the compendium of experience after 1500 years endeavour in sorting it all out.
A master to lead as mastery leadeth him, I say!

Now, my little cockroach, kiss the toes of your master and let wisdom influx what age hath provided.
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Atla »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:00 pm I have been upstaged! A New Guru has become manifest.

All bow before His glory!

How must we live?! What must we do?!

May the Oracle speak and guide …
You bow before the channeled echo of Atla the philosopher-king, like countless people before you throughout history. You are wise to do so.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why Do the Religious Reject Science While Embracing the Impossible?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Atla wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:50 pm Yes my child, although Christian gnostic nondualism has about as much to do with the cosmic nondualism that the Atlanteans realized, as sky diving does with jumping from a chair while being high.
Guru-dev speaks!

What I take from this latest transmission — my insightful hermeneutics — is that he recommends bold, manly acts — like skydiving!

🪂

So this is one recommended (indeed authorized) way to recover or to rediscover non-dual consciousness.

The chair bit I don’t get but Who am I to raise questions?!
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