Corporation Socialism

[Dr Faustus]

Capitalism has always been linked to state power. To establish individual property, you need a powerful state, police justice, etc. Moreover, when ownership is concentrated in a small fraction of people, this leads to what we observed for two centuries, the formation of monopolies, oligopolies, trusts, etc. These companies have always been linked to the state. They are the spearhead of imperialism. Lenine already noticed that in 1916.

Socialism is another word for a new regime of property rights. This regime is the condition for a true democracy.

[Immanuel Can]

Capitalism has always been linked to state power.

Socialism, much more so. In fact, Socialism absolutely demands that there be but one State, and that it be all-powerful in relation to production. And that's definitional.

To establish individual property, you need a powerful state, police justice, etc.

You don't, actually. All you have to do is allow people the means to defend themselves. That's it.

Lenine already noticed that in 1916.

Was "Lenine" Mrs. Lenin?

Lenin was a psychopath who established the Red Terror.

Socialism is another word for a new regime of property rights.

Ummm...no. It's a name for NO property rights. Ownership goes to the State, which mismanages everything, and the people die in poverty or in gulags.

But the point of the present thread is not to go over the disastrous, murderous history of Socialism, but rather to point out that today, a new kind of Socialism has been born, one that is quite happy to collaborate with the biggest of Big Business to bilk the public. Anything to say about that?

[Dr Faustus]

Guns don't grow on trees. by the way, we don't live in GTA. we don't have cheat code. Even if everyone has an ammu-nation in his house, i give you the bet that if some gangbangers want to hunt you down because you took a city for your private property, without State, your chance to live are bad.

[Immanuel Can]

Guns don't grow on trees. by the way, we don't live in GTA. we don't have cheat code. Even if everyone has an ammu-nation in his house, i give you the bet that if some gangbangers want to hunt you down because you took a city for your private property, without State, your chance to live are bad.

I have not the slightest idea what you're going on about here. What does this have to do with Corporation Socialism?

[Dr Faustus]

Guns don't grow on trees. by the way, we don't live in GTA. we don't have cheat code. Even if everyone has an ammu-nation in his house, i give you the bet that if some gangbangers want to hunt you down because you took a city for your private property, without State, your chance to live are bad.

I have not the slightest idea what you're going on about here. What does this have to do with Corporation Socialism?

You said that if we allow people to defend themselves, there is no need of state to establish private property, right ?

By the way, the majority of big corporations does not belong to the State. GAfAM is not a Corporation Socialism. What you are talking does not exist. The phenomenon you describe is the fact of industrial society. Industrial Society instituted by capitalism and now by fascism.

[Immanuel Can]

Guns don't grow on trees. by the way, we don't live in GTA. we don't have cheat code. Even if everyone has an ammu-nation in his house, i give you the bet that if some gangbangers want to hunt you down because you took a city for your private property, without State, your chance to live are bad.

I have not the slightest idea what you're going on about here. What does this have to do with Corporation Socialism?

You said that if we allow people to defend themselves, there is no need of state to establish private property, right ?

"Defense" happens many ways. I'm surprised you jumped straight to guns. I was thinking of other ways...personal rights, the ballot box, cooperative communities of defense, policing, laws...and behind it all, the sacrosanct moral right to property, just as John Locke said.

But in Socialism, the big "gang," the State and its corporate allies, simply come and take everything you've got. And you have no recourse, because the State has been made all-powerful.

[Dr Faustus]

I have not the slightest idea what you're going on about here. What does this have to do with Corporation Socialism?

You said that if we allow people to defend themselves, there is no need of state to establish private property, right ?

"Defense" happens many ways. I'm surprised you jumped straight to guns. I was thinking of other ways...personal rights, the ballot box, cooperative communities of defense, policing, laws...and behind it all, the sacrosanct moral right to property, just as John Locke said.

But in Socialism, the big "gang," the State and its corporate allies, simply come and take everything you've got. And you have no recourse, because the State has been made all-powerful.

Well, socialism began with inclosure acts if we accept your vision of socialism

[Immanuel Can]

You said that if we allow people to defend themselves, there is no need of state to establish private property, right ?

"Defense" happens many ways. I'm surprised you jumped straight to guns. I was thinking of other ways...personal rights, the ballot box, cooperative communities of defense, policing, laws...and behind it all, the sacrosanct moral right to property, just as John Locke said.

But in Socialism, the big "gang," the State and its corporate allies, simply come and take everything you've got. And you have no recourse, because the State has been made all-powerful.

Well, socialism began with inclosure acts if we accept your vision of socialism

Don't worry about "my vision." It's not "my vision of Socialism." It's definitional in what it means to be "Socialist," by Marx's account. And it's also what Socialism has done, every time, in its history.

P.S. -- What do you mean "inclosure acts"?

[Dr Faustus]

"Defense" happens many ways. I'm surprised you jumped straight to guns. I was thinking of other ways...personal rights, the ballot box, cooperative communities of defense, policing, laws...and behind it all, the sacrosanct moral right to property, just as John Locke said.

But in Socialism, the big "gang," the State and its corporate allies, simply come and take everything you've got. And you have no recourse, because the State has been made all-powerful.

Well, socialism began with inclosure acts if we accept your vision of socialism

Don't worry about "my vision." It's not "my vision of Socialism." It's definitional in what it means to be "Socialist," by Marx's account. And it's also what Socialism has done, every time, in its history.

P.S. -- What do you mean "inclosure acts"?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclosure_act

[Immanuel Can]

Well, socialism began with inclosure acts if we accept your vision of socialism

Don't worry about "my vision." It's not "my vision of Socialism." It's definitional in what it means to be "Socialist," by Marx's account. And it's also what Socialism has done, every time, in its history.

P.S. -- What do you mean "inclosure acts"?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclosure_act

So...you're going all the way back to England of the 18th Century to make some kind of point? I'm not getting what it would be.

[Dr Faustus]

Don't worry about "my vision." It's not "my vision of Socialism." It's definitional in what it means to be "Socialist," by Marx's account. And it's also what Socialism has done, every time, in its history.

P.S. -- What do you mean "inclosure acts"?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclosure_act

So...you're going all the way back to England of the 18th Century to make some kind of point? I'm not getting what it would be.

Where are you going ? What are you talking about, concretely ?

[Immanuel Can]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclosure_act

So...you're going all the way back to England of the 18th Century to make some kind of point? I'm not getting what it would be.

Where are you going ? What are you talking about, concretely ?

By your Wiki website, the Inclosure Act was in 1773. Modern Socialism begins with Marx, in 1848. I'm trying to find the connection you're aiming at.

[Dr Faustus]

So...you're going all the way back to England of the 18th Century to make some kind of point? I'm not getting what it would be.

Where are you going ? What are you talking about, concretely ?

By your Wiki website, the Inclosure Act was in 1773. Modern Socialism begins with Marx, in 1848. I'm trying to find the connection you're aiming at.

Socialism does not begin with Marx. And it was a sarcasm, inclosure act is not socialism but the beginning of capitalism.
And it begins in 1604.

I am talking about your thread, Corporation Socialism, what does that mean. What does it describe in reality ?

[Immanuel Can]

Where are you going ? What are you talking about, concretely ?

By your Wiki website, the Inclosure Act was in 1773. Modern Socialism begins with Marx, in 1848. I'm trying to find the connection you're aiming at.

Socialism does not begin with Marx. And it was a sarcasm, inclosure act is not socialism but the beginning of capitalism.
And it begins in 1604.

The idea of "capitalism" was actually invented out of nothing by a contemporary of Karl Marx. No such thing even existed in 1604, and no such thing has actually existed since, either, since there is no "ideology of capital," which is what it would mean. It was a Marxist invention, not a reality. Marx needed an enemy to hate, a yin to his Socialist yang, so he made one up.

I am talking about your thread, Corporation Socialism, what does that mean. What does it describe in reality ?

Corporation Socialism is the fusion of Socialist ideology with the goals and interests of Big Business and Big Media. I just wondered if any Socialists here were self-aware enough to know their "revolution" has been sold to the Amazons, WEF's and Blackrocks of the world. It seems they're not.

[Dr Faustus]

By your Wiki website, the Inclosure Act was in 1773. Modern Socialism begins with Marx, in 1848. I'm trying to find the connection you're aiming at.

Socialism does not begin with Marx. And it was a sarcasm, inclosure act is not socialism but the beginning of capitalism.
And it begins in 1604.

The idea of "capitalism" was actually invented out of nothing by a contemporary of Karl Marx. No such thing even existed in 1604, and no such thing has actually existed since, either, since there is no "ideology of capital," which is what it would mean. It was a Marxist invention, not a reality. Marx needed an enemy to hate, a yin to his Socialist yang, so he made one up.

I am talking about your thread, Corporation Socialism, what does that mean. What does it describe in reality ?

Corporation Socialism is the fusion of Socialist ideology with the goals and interests of Big Business and Big Media. I just wondered if any Socialists here were self-aware enough to know their "revolution" has been sold to the Amazons, WEF's and Blackrocks of the world. It seems they're not.

It's confusing. I thought socialism was for you a formal description of state ownership. It is now an ideology linked to the interests of private companies.

At least Marx with his concepts described a real, observable thing. What's yours with Corporation Socialism ?