Gnosticism

[MyNameGoesHere]

What are your thoughts? Although Gnosticism is incorporated in some of Judaic and Coptic teachings, it doesn't really seem to appear elsewhere--certainly not in standard Christianity. I believe it is the only religious system, besides Greek mythology, that incorporates the feminine as a "godhead." Is Gnosticism something we're missing in the modern world?

[FlashDangerpants]

Sorry, I don't actually know anything about gnosticism, nor take much interest in religion at all. But I have noticed that when new people create topics they tend to be halfway down the page by the time the admin releases them, so they often don't get seen. Ergo, I am just bumping the thread.

[MyNameGoesHere]

Sorry, I don't actually know anything about gnosticism, nor take much interest in religion at all. But I have noticed that when new people create topics they tend to be halfway down the page by the time the admin releases them, so they often don't get seen. Ergo, I am just bumping the thread.

Thanks!

[h311inac311]

Hey Flash,

So I don't know a lot about Gnosticism, however what I can glean from it is this.

1. It is a Mystic or Cult-like religion (when I say cult I mean a religion with hidden traits or beliefs).

2. Today it is largely known as a Greek religion and pre-dates Christianity.

3. When they heard the story of Jesus they immediately accepted him as a high level God or enlightened one.

Gnostic is a word meaning knowledge. The idea is that you are supposed to search for knowledge that is both spiritual and physical. In their view, for the most part, the physical world will lead you to suffering and death. But, the spiritual world leads to eternal life. In some ways their views on the body and soul being separate entities with separate motivations is actually quite similar to New Testament Theology.

The gospel of Judas was written according to the Gnostic tradition and it tries to say that Judas was the closest of all the disciples to the truth. In this Gospel God actually praises Judas for betraying Jesus because this was the catalyst to Jesus' body being executed allowing him to become fully spirit and therefore fully Devine.

These teachings are actually quite similar to stuff you will find in Buddhism such as the idea that the pursuit of earthly pleasure almost always leads to pain and suffering, and, that to be free of suffering is to free yourself of earthly desire. There is also the idea that increasing your body's pain tolerance can be a means to attain enlightenment which follows from practices such as fasting, laying on a bed of nails, or going outside in the cold and trying to survive for as long as you can with minimal clothing.

I've also heard that the Gosple of Mary is also considered to be a gnostic gosple. Regardless, much of what we do know about their teachings is shrouded in mystery (as it was while they were still alive and practicing). The main difference between the gnostic interpretation of the gosple and Paul's interpretation is that the Christian doesn't need to rely on some mystical or mysterious form of knowledge in order to find salvation, and forgivness or eternal life.
All we need is to believe in Christ and accept his sacrifice on the cross. This is the simple truth that almost every single book of the New Testament points us back towards. Yes, there are mysteries in the Bible, as well as coded messages that are based largely on nature or agricultural practices, but, we don't need to understand these deep mysteries in order to be saved it is merely a path towards better understanding an infinite God.

Also, if you're wondering why I'm referencing Christianity so much with this post, it is because a lot of what we know about the Gnostic tradition is based off of how they interacted with the early Christian movement as it spread throughout ancient Greece.

[MyNameGoesHere]

These teachings are actually quite similar to stuff you will find in Buddhism

It is true the Gnosis is similar to enlightenment in Buddhism. Supposedly, one can attain enlightenment with one direct apprehension of the nature of reality. So it is with Gnosis.

[Gary Childress]

These teachings are actually quite similar to stuff you will find in Buddhism

It is true the Gnosis is similar to enlightenment in Buddhism. Supposedly, one can attain enlightenment with one direct apprehension of the nature of reality. So it is with Gnosis.

Did Christianity, through the Roman empire, essentially subdue Gnosticism? I don't know much about it either other than it didn't prevail over Christianity. Yet some teachings of the Gnostics seem rather pluralist and humane such as that Yahweh is a fallen God who created a world of pain and suffering and the only way to transcend it was to make contact with the ultimate god-head or something like that.

Sometimes it seems like history is a series of omissions that require illumination. And once they are illuminated, things take a whole different shape and form.

I was taught the "classical" western cannon of Descartes, Hume, Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche etc. Ergo I was infused with a piece of the puzzle but not the whole thing it seems.

[MyNameGoesHere]

[/quote]

Did Christianity, through the Roman empire, essentially subdue Gnosticism? I don't know much about it either other than it didn't prevail over Christianity. Yet some teachings of the Gnostics seem rather pluralist and humane such as that Yahweh is a fallen God who created a world of pain and suffering and the only way to transcend it was to make contact with the ultimate god-head or something like that.

Sometimes it seems like history is a series of omissions that require illumination. And once they are illuminated, things take a whole different shape and form.

I was taught the "classical" western cannon of Descartes, Hume, Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche etc. Ergo I was infused with a piece of the puzzle but not the whole thing it seems.
[/quote]

Yes, it was subdued. Very much frowned upon.

Basically, everything fell in Gnosticism. This was blamed upon the Sophia or Wisdom--the female godhead. She created what they call the demiurge. You can kind of imagine that Sophia created the contents of hell on earth out of the materials at hand (not out of nothing), and then went into hell after them to save them. Sophia can be seen as the third part of the trinity--the holy ghost, or even the sibling of Jesus. She is the spirit of compassion, as understood in Buddhism. As well as the spirit of Love, in the romantic sense.

I'm thinking of writing a novel based on it all, it begins like this (maybe):

How many lifetimes have passed since (they) first met? Maybe all of them. Or close enough. Time passes slowly and then speeds to the finish line. Some lifetimes are short and some pass so slowly, starving us with their paucity.

In the beginning, there was the flash. The very first flash photograph, from the very first paparazzi—full to brimming with life. And the Lord said, what is to be done, what is to be done, with this fullness of need and hunger? It is not mine, it was here when I arrived. But something must be done lest the vast hunger eats away at the beauty. And as he wept at the purity of the beauty, he heard another voice, the first to speak his language.

Where is the love, cried the deep dark beginning of wisdom born of mystery? Why is there no love? As (She)Not You(Your opposite) spoke the word, it was created in his mind, and YES, he understood the word. He had the first stirrings of warmth he had felt since his arrival and he let her in. I will have you as my partner, he told her. We will see, she answered, first you must win my (love)heart(container) and give it away, for I am not yours to keep. And thus paradox was born and shall ever persist.

She continued in gentle negotiation: While our immense work winds its way through our wild territory, we must have sustenance, some manner of soul food to get us through, something to feed us in our minds while we sort this. And there was a YESSSSS. I have a hunger too. Talk to me, I am so lonely. And then it was yes and no, a nod and a shrug, and her answer hung in the air, a rich aroma to follow through the gaffs, the games, the gyroscopic maneuverings through time and space.

[promethean75]

That demiurge theory stuff is what happened when wisemen and philosophers found they had to resolve the idea of a perfect good god with the existence of this ugly imperfect world. A few of them avoided the problem of evil entirely by postulating a fake evil god or goddess that was responsible for creating this world. That doesn't avoid the problem of a single omnipotent god allowing such a demiurge to exist in the first place and why.

That gnostic concept is just one of those few results that come from men wrestling with counter-intuitive and conflicting ideas that come with the package of theology of any sort, from animism to monitheism. Several gods would disagree with each other so then there can only be one, etc. God is omnipotent and omniscient, but there is freewill and evil, etc. Evil sucks but is necessary for some reason... to have something which we can exercise our freewill against, etc.

All this is a complex psychological attempt to resolve unsettling confusions and logical problems that are built into anthropomorphic reasoning. All the way back to Zeus, philosophers have been having problems with how god does stuff.

[MyNameGoesHere]

That demiurge theory stuff is what happened when wisemen and philosophers found they had to resolve the idea of a perfect good god with the existence of this ugly imperfect world. A few of them avoided the problem of evil entirely by postulating a fake evil god or goddess that was responsible for creating this world. That doesn't avoid the problem of a single omnipotent god allowing such a demiurge to exist in the first place and why.

That gnostic concept is just one of those few results that come from men wrestling with counter-intuitive and conflicting ideas that come with the package of theology of any sort, from animism to monitheism. Several gods would disagree with each other so then there can only be one, etc. God is omnipotent and omniscient, but there is freewill and evil, etc. Evil sucks but is necessary for some reason... to have something which we can exercise our freewill against, etc.

All this is a complex psychological attempt to resolve unsettling confusions and logical problems that are built into anthropomorphic reasoning. All the way back to Zeus, philosophers have been having problems with how god does stuff.

Are you a believer in a single omnipotent, omniscient God, then?

[promethean75]

After a long, arduous philosophical journey and becoming a Stirnerite, i no longer bother myself with believing or not in 'god'. For even if a 'god' did exist, it would be one more thing that does not concern me or what is my own!

But since you asked, I'll answer in traditional Chomskyean form when asked if i think a 'god' exists: "I'm sorry, I don't understand the question".

[MyNameGoesHere]

After a long, arduous philosophical journey and becoming a Stirnerite, i no longer bother myself with believing or not in 'god'. For even if a 'god' did exist, it would be one more thing that does not concern me or what is my own!

But since you asked, I'll answer in traditional Chomskyean form when asked if i think a 'god' exists: "I'm sorry, I don't understand the question".

Ok, no problem

[Impenitent]

pieces of god... eucharist

-Imp

[Age]

Hey Flash,

So I don't know a lot about Gnosticism, however what I can glean from it is this.

1. It is a Mystic or Cult-like religion (when I say cult I mean a religion with hidden traits or beliefs).

'Hidden' from who, exactly?

2. Today it is largely known as a Greek religion and pre-dates Christianity.

3. When they heard the story of Jesus they immediately accepted him as a high level God or enlightened one.

Gnostic is a word meaning knowledge. The idea is that you are supposed to search for knowledge that is both spiritual and physical. In their view, for the most part, the physical world will lead you to suffering and death.[/quote]

The 'physical world' does NOT lead you to suffering, NOR to death.

'The way' you think LEADS 'you' TO WHEREVER 'that thinking' does.

But, the spiritual world leads to eternal life. In some ways their views on the body and soul being separate entities with separate motivations is actually quite similar to New Testament Theology.

The gospel of Judas was written according to the Gnostic tradition and it tries to say that Judas was the closest of all the disciples to the truth. In this Gospel God actually praises Judas for betraying Jesus because this was the catalyst to Jesus' body being executed allowing him to become fully spirit and therefore fully Devine.

These teachings are actually quite similar to stuff you will find in Buddhism such as the idea that the pursuit of earthly pleasure almost always leads to pain and suffering, and, that to be free of suffering is to free yourself of earthly desire. There is also the idea that increasing your body's pain tolerance can be a means to attain enlightenment which follows from practices such as fasting, laying on a bed of nails, or going outside in the cold and trying to survive for as long as you can with minimal clothing.

ALL theological texts ARE ACTUALLY SIMILAR, WHEN one GETS TO THE VERY 'heart' OF them.

I've also heard that the Gosple of Mary is also considered to be a gnostic gosple. Regardless, much of what we do know about their teachings is shrouded in mystery (as it was while they were still alive and practicing).

To you adult human beings, when this is being written, there is, STILL, A LOT that IS A 'mystery', to you.

The main difference between the gnostic interpretation of the gosple and Paul's interpretation is that the Christian doesn't need to rely on some mystical or mysterious form of knowledge in order to find salvation, and forgivness or eternal life.
All we need is to believe in Christ and accept his sacrifice on the cross.

And, LOL, HOW does JUST believing IN "jesus christ", and some so-called "sacrifice", supposedly give you salvation or eternal life, EXACTLY?

These people, BACK when this was being written, as can be VERY CLEARLY SEEN, here, REALLY were MISSING THE MARK, COMPLETELY.

This is the simple truth that almost every single book of the New Testament points us back towards. Yes, there are mysteries in the Bible, as well as coded messages that are based largely on nature or agricultural practices, but, we don't need to understand these deep mysteries in order to be saved it is merely a path towards better understanding an infinite God.

LOL
LOL
LOL

So, BELIEVING IN "jesus christ", WHATEVER 'that' ACTUALLY and EXACTLY MEANS, supposedly, PROVIDES a BETTER UNDERSTANDING of an INFINITE God.

LOL WHEN these people WILL, ALSO, COME TO REALIZE, then they WILL, ALSO, LAUGH AT JUST HOW STUPID and SILLY they REALLY WERE.

Also, if you're wondering why I'm referencing Christianity so much with this post, it is because a lot of what we know about the Gnostic tradition is based off of how they interacted with the early Christian movement as it spread throughout ancient Greece.

OR, just maybe a lot of what they knew, (or thought they knew), about "christianity" was based off of how they interacted with the early "gnostic" movement, as it spread throughout 'the world'.