Corporation Socialism

[Immanuel Can]

Manny. You don’t belong here.

I'll take your preferences into consideration, and give them all the consideration they deserve.

It appears that you were incorrect about not using the word "unaccountable".

Not at all, actually. Their so-called "accountability" is to the EU Parliament, not to England, or Newcastle or Bob. If you call that "accountability," then Josef Goebbels was "accountable."

[Gary Childress]

I'll take your preferences into consideration, and give them all the consideration they deserve.

It appears that you were incorrect about not using the word "unaccountable".

Not at all, actually. Their so-called "accountability" is to the EU Parliament, not to England, or Newcastle or Bob. If you call that "accountability," then Josef Goebbels was "accountable."

Well if the EU is like Nazi Germany, then that's pretty bad.

[Immanuel Can]

It appears that you were incorrect about not using the word "unaccountable".

Not at all, actually. Their so-called "accountability" is to the EU Parliament, not to England, or Newcastle or Bob. If you call that "accountability," then Josef Goebbels was "accountable."

Well if the EU is like Nazi Germany, then that's pretty bad.

I didn't say they were like them in any regards but being undemocratic and bureaucratic. That is, in the present. However, don't hold your breath for them to turn out to be fundamentally morally different. Those who take power by undemocratic means don't tend to turn out to be raving altruists. How far that goes...well, time will tell.

[Gary Childress]

Not at all, actually. Their so-called "accountability" is to the EU Parliament, not to England, or Newcastle or Bob. If you call that "accountability," then Josef Goebbels was "accountable."

Well if the EU is like Nazi Germany, then that's pretty bad.

I didn't say they were like them in any regards but being undemocratic and bureaucratic. That is, in the present. However, don't hold your breath for them to turn out to be fundamentally morally different. Those who take power by undemocratic means don't tend to turn out to be raving altruists. How far that goes...well, time will tell.

Are they at least more democratic than Russia or China?

[Immanuel Can]

Well if the EU is like Nazi Germany, then that's pretty bad.

I didn't say they were like them in any regards but being undemocratic and bureaucratic. That is, in the present. However, don't hold your breath for them to turn out to be fundamentally morally different. Those who take power by undemocratic means don't tend to turn out to be raving altruists. How far that goes...well, time will tell.

Are they at least more democratic than Russia or China?

I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic." Why would you think they can?

[Gary Childress]

I didn't say they were like them in any regards but being undemocratic and bureaucratic. That is, in the present. However, don't hold your breath for them to turn out to be fundamentally morally different. Those who take power by undemocratic means don't tend to turn out to be raving altruists. How far that goes...well, time will tell.

Are they at least more democratic than Russia or China?

I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic." Why would you think they can?

So the EU is as undemocratic as Russia and China? Is that correct?

[Immanuel Can]

Are they at least more democratic than Russia or China?

I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic." Why would you think they can?

So the EU is as undemocratic as Russia and China? Is that correct?

How can you put Russia or China on a "democratic" scale at all? You're going to have to explain what you mean.

[Gary Childress]

I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic." Why would you think they can?

So the EU is as undemocratic as Russia and China? Is that correct?

How can you put Russia or China on a "democratic" scale at all? You're going to have to explain what you mean.

I asked you if the EU was "more democratic than Russia or China" and you said "I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic". I took that to mean that none of them "Russia, China or the EU" are democratic. So I asked a clarifying question (just so Age would be proud of me) if it was true that the EU was as undemocratic as Russia and China. If those questions don't make sense to you, then I don't know what to say. It seems like EVERY country can be put on a democratic scale from best to worst including countries that aren't democratic at all (undemocratic countries would all populate the bottom of the scale). So I'm not sure why you're having difficulty with the question: Is the EU as undemocratic as Russia or China? I mean, do you consider the EU more democratic than Russia and China or do you not? Just how undemocratic do you believe the EU is?

[Will Bouwman]

Their so-called "accountability" is to the EU Parliament, not to England, or Newcastle or Bob. If you call that "accountability," then Josef Goebbels was "accountable."

Is the European Parliament democratically elected?

[Immanuel Can]

So the EU is as undemocratic as Russia and China? Is that correct?

How can you put Russia or China on a "democratic" scale at all? You're going to have to explain what you mean.

I asked you if the EU was "more democratic than Russia or China" and you said "I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic". I took that to mean that none of them "Russia, China or the EU" are democratic.

No. The EU certainly is not democratic. And I've said why: its most powerful functionaries are appointed, and answer only to the EU, not to any country or any particular persons, and they have no democratic process in place by which individuals may engage or moderate the Kommisars who determine their lives.

But how are you going to compare them to two regimes that are obviously totally autocratic as Russia and China? So it's your demand for a comparison on the "democratic" quality of three different non-democratic regimes that was weird.

It's like asking, "Which is the most female," and then listing three men. There's no way to answer a question so off-point and far from the truth.

[Gary Childress]

How can you put Russia or China on a "democratic" scale at all? You're going to have to explain what you mean.

I asked you if the EU was "more democratic than Russia or China" and you said "I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic". I took that to mean that none of them "Russia, China or the EU" are democratic.

No. The EU certainly is not democratic. And I've said why: its most powerful functionaries are appointed, and answer only to the EU, not to any country or any particular persons, and they have no democratic process in place by which individuals may engage or moderate the Kommisars who determine their lives.

But how are you going to compare them to two regimes that are obviously totally autocratic as Russia and China? So it's your demand for a comparison on the "democratic" quality of three different non-democratic regimes that was weird. There's no way to answer a question so off-point, except to say that we should not wish for any of the three.

I don't think it's "weird" rating governments for how democratic they are. Stuff like that is done all the time by many very intelligent analysts around the world. I'm surprised you're having such a problem with it.

[Immanuel Can]

I asked you if the EU was "more democratic than Russia or China" and you said "I don't know how any of those can be called "democratic". I took that to mean that none of them "Russia, China or the EU" are democratic.

No. The EU certainly is not democratic. And I've said why: its most powerful functionaries are appointed, and answer only to the EU, not to any country or any particular persons, and they have no democratic process in place by which individuals may engage or moderate the Kommisars who determine their lives.

But how are you going to compare them to two regimes that are obviously totally autocratic as Russia and China? So it's your demand for a comparison on the "democratic" quality of three different non-democratic regimes that was weird. There's no way to answer a question so off-point, except to say that we should not wish for any of the three.

I don't think it's "weird" rating governments for how democratic they are.

How do you rate three governments for their relative "democratic" quality, when none of them is actually democratic?

I'm not having a problem: it's your question. It's up to you to make it make sense.

[Gary Childress]

No. The EU certainly is not democratic. And I've said why: its most powerful functionaries are appointed, and answer only to the EU, not to any country or any particular persons, and they have no democratic process in place by which individuals may engage or moderate the Kommisars who determine their lives.

But how are you going to compare them to two regimes that are obviously totally autocratic as Russia and China? So it's your demand for a comparison on the "democratic" quality of three different non-democratic regimes that was weird. There's no way to answer a question so off-point, except to say that we should not wish for any of the three.

I don't think it's "weird" rating governments for how democratic they are.

How do you rate three governments for their relative "democratic" quality, when none of them is actually democratic?

I'm not having a problem: it's your question. It's up to you to make it make sense.

So that's more or less the answer I was looking for. It sounds to me like you are saying that the EU is little more democratic than Russia or China. Is that correct? As far as how to measure democracy, I belatedly included a link in my previous post that might help.

[Immanuel Can]

I don't think it's "weird" rating governments for how democratic they are.

How do you rate three governments for their relative "democratic" quality, when none of them is actually democratic?

I'm not having a problem: it's your question. It's up to you to make it make sense.

So that's more or less the answer I was looking for. It sounds to me like you are saying that the EU is little more democratic than Russia or China. Is that correct?

I said no such thing. I said none of the three is democratic at all.

But here: I'll fix your broken question for you, by answering it in a way that actually refers to democratic governments. The EU is far less democratic than England's constitutional monarchy, or that of Canada, or the government of Australia, or the republican system of the US. It's miles and miles less democratic than any of them.

Happy yet?

[Gary Childress]

How do you rate three governments for their relative "democratic" quality, when none of them is actually democratic?

I'm not having a problem: it's your question. It's up to you to make it make sense.

So that's more or less the answer I was looking for. It sounds to me like you are saying that the EU is little more democratic than Russia or China. Is that correct?

I said no such thing. I said none of the three is democratic at all.

But here: I'll fix your broken question for you, by answering it in a way that actually refers to democratic governments. The EU is far less democratic than England's constitutional monarchy, or that of Canada, or the government of Australia, or the republican system of the US. It's miles and miles less democratic than any of them.

Happy yet?

I'm happy just to know that you answered my question.