Virgin Weddings???

[Age]

And how did so-called "catholicism" SCREEN the "virgins" from the "non virgins", EXACTLY, before the so-called 'virgin weddings' took place?

Nun and Church Sisters would visually inspect the Bride-to-be's genitals, before the Bride would be dressed in her White wedding gown.

So, the IMPORTANCE that CHANGE was NEEDED is, basically, JUST OBVIOUS.

And, who inspected the genitals of the "nun" and the "sisters"? "Themselves"? Or, did they not have to be "virgins"?

A White wedding gown symbolized that she retained her Chastity. Protestant religions use white wedding gowns today, as a mockery.

It's like "Gay Marriage", which is another popular, postmodern Sacrilege.

If you say so, then okay.

And, HOW is ANY and EVERY so-called "good and decent father" going to CHECK if the daughter is a virgin or not?

Does the father just ask, or does the father OPEN the vagina, have A LOOK, and CHECK for their own selves?

A Good father would have earned the trust and respect of her teenage daughter; she would tell him.

But, WHY would someone tell the Truth if they were going to be judged, disciplined, punished, humiliated, and/or not be allowed to do what they wanted to do, like, for example, 'getting married'?

But the Church would check anyway. They had to.

LOL Why did they, supposedly, HAVE TO?

Also, this one, OBVIOUSLY, still has absolutely NO idea what the word 'marriage' was actually meaning and referring to, EXACTLY.

What even is a "bastard" to you, in the society that you are from, EXACTLY?

A completely or mostly absent, biological father.

Okay.

Here 'we' have another prime example of how different societies have different meanings for words. Which, AGAIN, is a reason WHY there is so much CONFUSION, and MISUNDERSTANDING, among the people on world wide forums, like this one.

Orphans are examples of Bastards.

If you say so.

Their biological fathers abandoned them when they were born.

LOL
LOL
LOL

So, to this one anyway, ALL "orphans" are BECAUSE their biological fathers abandoned them when they were born. And, there were NO other reasons.

Exceptions to this, are when parents die or are killed--but these are excused, because aunts/uncles, and direct biological-kin should take the responsibility for caring and loving them.

LOL This one could not be MORE NARROWED or CLOSED in its view/s, here?

Also, LOL 'should'.

This would be a case where 'Bastardization' is avoided. If children have Good fathers, who are present, then extended-family are presumed replacements. This is example of Kinship.

I only asked you, What even is a 'bastard', to you.

No one really cares what other views you have, here.

What do you want the fathers to do? Sleep with their daughters so NO one fucks them, before marriage?

How much do you want father to 'be there', for the daughters?

The father, should at the very least, screen the worst of the worst types of males, away from their daughters.

But, HOW is a father meant to 'be there' with the daughters ALWAYS?

you really do have some very funny views and BELIEFS, here.

Without male-screening, we get the modern day (Postmodern), degenerate, amoral, immoral Civilization.

Which you are a part of and part of a cause of, correct?

Or, do you not include "yourself", here?

It can barely be called "Civilization" anymore.

Since the time when the story of "adam and eve" was referring to, exactly, in evolution, has 'it' ever really been so-called 'civilization', since then?

The moral practices I'm describing, are what built our original Western Civilization.

And, following 'this logic' what 'caused' the so-called "western civilization", which led to 'the world' that you are living in 'now', when this is being written, is some thing that would have been best NEVER REPEATED.

And, there are all sorts of mothers ALSO.

In fact ALL of you human beings are DIFFERENT.

you OBVIOUSLY do things that others DETEST and HATE, ABSOLUTELY. So, WHY should ANY one else be different in this regard.

Correct, women and mothers can be just as bad, sometimes worse, as bastard-fathers and men.

And, what is ALSO Correct is that you do some things that are as bad, and sometimes worse, than what even what are called "the worst" do. But, you will NOT 'look at' and 'discuss' this, correct?

WHY did you only mention and talk about "women" and "mothers" doing as bad, sometimes worse, than some "fathers" and "men", but TOTALLY IGNORED that you, ALSO, do things that others DETEST, and HATE, ABSOLUTELY.

SO, what caused the so-called "west" to be 'as it is', and 'getting worse'?

Also, 'getting worse' relative to 'what', exactly?

By the way, where, EXACTLY, does the so-called "west" start and finish?

Western Morality/Spirituality has severely weakened, hence this thread.

See, how 'these people' will NOT just ANSWER VERY SIMPLE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed, and asked, to them.

This one's response, here, ONCE AGAIN, did NOT relate to ANY of the three ACTUAL CLARIFYING QUESTIONS asked.

Nobody cares,

Are you REALLY NOT YET AWARE of the CONTRADICTION and HYPOCRISY, here?

If no, then let 'us' know and I WILL INFORM you.

Go ahead then, inform me.

Are you SAYING that you are NOT YET AWARE of the CONTRADICTION, and HYPOCRISY, here?

If you ANSWER with a 'Yes', then I WILL INFORM you.

and Liberalism, loose morals, or no morals (Amorality) is completely self-destructive, as is now obvious to the growing majority.

The so-claimed 'growing majority' of 'what', exactly? The "east".

I meant that, a growing majority of Westerners, are realizing the damage of loose morality (Neo-Liberalism), and its absolutely destructive, anti-social effects.

Okay. So, what is this so-claimed "growing majority of westerners" actually doing, exact?

See, if as you claim "the west" is getting worse, then, obviously, the "growing majority of westerners", who you claim are aware of the so-called progress of 'amorality', are not actually doing any thing at all in reducing the 'amorality'. And, in fact, it could be argued that it is this so-claimed "growing majority of westerners" who are helping in causing the progressively worsening of the so-called "west".

Are you some kind of COMPLETE IDIOT?

MY QUESTION WAS, and STILL IS:

Is your opening post a so-called 'real argument', or, what you believe is true and/or something else?

You don't have any ground for calling others idiotic, AgeGPT.

Do you have ANY grounds for calling others "gpt's"?

You're the most inhuman, unhuman contributor on the forum. You respond as a computer-AI program would.

you have gone through 'this' BEFORE, remember?

Anyway, MY QUESTION STILL IS:

Is your opening post a so-called 'real argument', or, just what you believe is true and/or something else?

Feel free to ANSWER the ACTUAL QUESTION whenever you like.

AGAIN, they were NOT 'arguments'. They were, AGAIN, your conclusions, ONLY. Of which some are WAITING for you to provide ACTUAL premises to, and for.

I already gave you the premises to my conclusions.

Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE of this?

You don't seem to understand the difference.

Would you like to 'your arguments' in a form where 'your premise/s' and 'your conclusion/s' can be understood by me, and others?

Because obviously NO one else, but you, understands 'the difference', above here.

But, if ANY one would like to claim that they understand 'the difference' in "wizard22's" writings, here, then by all means feel free to present 'your understanding/s'.

[Age]

The Catholic church has not been around for 'thousands of years'.. ..and personally, I couldn't give a rats arse about a bunch of men (creators of Catholicism) dictating to me their ridiculous & bigoted interpretation of what my Christ said and did.

WHAT?!

Pick up a history book??

Also, you don't need to sign off all the time with A.SAP, it's clear from your views on women that u r most definitely a SAP.

If you were to consider the Catholic church as being established in the 1st Century, then unless it was prior to 25 years after Jesus popped off, then it ain't plural as in 'thousandS' of years ago..

Although I admit, I hadn't realised it went so far back to the main man himself. My mate GPT has this:-

The Catholic Church traces its origins to the ministry of Jesus Christ and the apostles in the 1st century AD. The Church is believed to have been founded by Jesus Christ, who appointed the Apostle Peter as the leader of his followers, establishing the papacy. The term "Catholic" itself means "universal," reflecting the mission of the Church to spread the teachings of Christ worldwide.

So if we accept that this "universal" = Catholic Church was established during Christ's life, then I stand corrected - thousands it is. No wonder GOD had me born into Christ's official Church and I now know rather a lot about GOD's power within our reality.

Still, I'm starting to get a tad impatient for an invite to go to California and meet my sage..and even the Christ himself. Maybe, just maybe, I have indeed been...too naughty a boy...nah!

See, how 'these people', back then, would BELIEVE, ABSOLUTELY, things that they read, or heard.

LOL Because some 'artificial intelligence' 'says' some thing, then it MUST BE TRUE, well to this one anyway.

'These people', at times, would, literally, NOT 'realize' some thing, until it was TOLD TO them, and then, worse still, they would BELIEVE, ABSOLUTELY, what they just heard, or read. And, AGAIN, they would 'do this' WITHOUT REALIZING what they were ACTUALLY DOING.

[Age]

Does the groom have to be a virgin too?

Btw, the 17th century ended some time ago.

Only women can be virgin because only women have hymens. Males do not have a hymen to be penetrated.

What happens if a female body is born without a hymen? Can they NEVER get married?

Or is that an IMPOSSIBILITY, to you.

Isn't this obvious in Middle School sex ed? You should have learned that at 13 years old.

Are "virgin guys" NOT talked about, nor discussed, in school, among "teenage boys and girls"?

If 'a guy is a virgin or not' is a topic of discussion, sometimes, among "teenage boys and/or girls", does this MEAN that those "boys and girls" did NOT learn, at 13 years of age, what you, supposedly, did?

[Age]

It's just a person who hasn't had sex you twat. And why are you even thinking about your daughter's hymen? What a creepy pervert. Yuk.

So a father who lets his daughter run her twat through 20 ghetto trash, thugs, is not a "creepy pervert" according to your logic...

Gotcha...anything else, dumbass?

LOL Did you REALLY think or BELIEVE that was a so-called "gotcha" moment "wizard22"?

Are you aware of just how Truly narrowed and/or CLOSED the thinking within that body comes across, here?

[Age]

Oh right. That's the only alternative

So which is it...a father should, or should not, be concerned about the garbage going into his daughter's vagina, yes or no???

Spell it out for me.

It appears you're in the "should not" category. Why is that? And any garbage will do, correct?

Are you AWARE of just how Truly 'JUDGEY' you are.

are you even AWARE that how you are coming across, here, is even MORE DETESTED, and HATED, than the DETEST, and HATRED, that you have for human beings who do not FOLLOW and ABIDE BY your views, and values?

you seem to be COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to the Fact that what you are doing, here, is even MORE HATED than the HATRED you have.

And, what you are doing, here, is HATED, MORE, by the ONLY One who can JUSTIFIABLY JUDGE.

What WILL BE SEEN on what is sometimes referred to as JUDGMENT DAY is that what you are DOING, here, is JUDGED AS the WORST of THE WORST.

[Age]

I'm must going to accelerate your fine position, for you, Veg...

Your position is Feminism, and that "women's choice" is the "final say". You believe a 14-year-old girl, has better wisdom and judgment than "creepy old homosexual men"...even and ESPECIALLY if that "creepy old fag" were her own, biological father, who supposedly, ought to care and be concerned about her company.

It sounds like you hate your own father, correct?

This is ANOTHER PRIME example of just HOW QUICKLY 'these people' would PRE-ASSUME some thing, JUMP TO A CONCLUSION, BELIEVE their OWN CONCLUSION ABSOLUTELY True, and then TURN 'that conclusion' ONTO another human being. WITHOUT ONCE even just CONSIDERING TO SEEK OUT and OBTAIN ANY ACTUAL CLARIFICATION, FIRST.

Did he not look out for you? This is personal, isn't it??

[Age]

I think that Feminism comes down to women's general resentiment, hatred, and envy toward their biological fathers.

Today, most Western women have weak or absent fathers (are Bastards), and so their impression of men in general, come from their 'faggy' personal experiences.

This they then project onto all other men...as is the case.


Your disrespect of your biological father, is then your disrespect toward men in general (Misandry).

This applies to Western (Bastard) "men", as well.

LOL 'This' coming from the one who has been 'generalizing' so-called "western men", here.

[Age]

It's becoming clearer to me, that Virgin Marriage, the chastity of young women, must have been a value of the early European Royalty, Nobility, and Monarch classes. Because we see, in this thread, the lowly value of it (low morals) of the commoner and prole. Among the Proles, 'any garbage will do' going into a young woman's womb--because proles and commoners, are the 'trash' themselves. There is no concern, among their daughters, that they ought to have better men or better suitors. There is no ideal of "better bloodline".

'This one' is PROJECTING on to all other "men".

And, the 'JUDGINESS' of 'this one' if not BLATANTLY OBVIOUS, here, would be UNBELIEVABLE, to say the least.

Again this goes back to the liberal-left versus conservative right phenomenon. Leftists do not believe there is "better or worse" genetic material, and so, any junky, ghetto rat, sewer filth, will do, for their daughters.

Could this one have found a WORSE WAY to 'try to' ARGUE and FIGHT FOR its BELIEFS, here?

And Marriage? Just a matter of Civil society, State-ism, get some tax benefits.

LOL you, STILL, do NOT YET EVEN KNOW what the word 'marriage' MEANS, and REFERS TO, in scripture literature.

That's their ideal, experience, and impression of postmodern "Marriage". A Protestant and Liberal ideal...Feministic to the core.

Here again it's clear how Secularism guts the moral quality of the masses, in exchange for 'Class Equality' (Marxism).


But in the end, as always, it fails. Because there are very LOW qualities of males, suitors, and genetic "exchanges".

Hence the lowest of the low reproduce the quickest and most virulently. Drug addicts, criminals, ghetto types.

'ghetto types'.

Could you be MORE of a 'judgey type' "wizard22"?

And, what does God and/or "jesus christ" SAY in regards to people, like you, 'judging others', EXACTLY?

Everybody sees this more readily throughout the West, as the Quality-of-Life has taken a steep plummet.

And, the "west", and its STEEP DESCENT, CAME FROM "christians" and/or "catholicism". So, OBVIOUSLY, what does this SAY ABOUT "catholicism" and/or "christianity", itself.

JUST MAYBE 'the messages' that were getting PAST DOWN have been MISINTERPRETED, MISUNDERSTOOD, MISPERCEIVED, MISTAKEN, and/or JUST PLAIN OLD MISSED, from what was ORIGINALLY MEANT?

OBVIOUSLY NONE of 'these people', here, UNDERSTOOD what the word 'marriage' ORIGINALLY MEANT. As that word has been VERY CLEARLY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

None of this would have stood in the 1970s, let alone the 1950s...

And, the 2020's CAME FROM the 1970's and the 1950's, OBVIOUSLY.

Also, NOTED is just how Truly NARROWED and CLOSED this one's views and perspectives really are, from just these very few words alone.

[Age]

What a loathesome creep you are. I don't know any catholics who think that way. Sounds more like a muslim thing.
No father should be thinking about his daughter like that. Do you think your daughters go around thinking about whether or not you are circumcised, or how small your dick is? Or whether you give your wife oral sex, or shove your micropenis up her arse? That would be gross and disgusting now wouldn't it? It's the last thing they EVER want to think about. Trust me.

Just because your father didn't give a shit about YOU...doesn't mean 99% of the rest of humanity is the same, Veg.

LOL you are just SAYING and CLAIMING that "the west" is on a downhill spiral BECAUSE of "fathers" who, supposedly, 'do not give a shit', as you call it.

So, what is 'it', here, "wizard22"? If "the west" is in such a DECLINE, as you say and claim it is, then WHY is this, if LOL 99% of the rest of "the west" are "fathers" who 'give a shit'?

I'm sorry that your father abandoned you, and obviously didn't care what kind of low-quality men sleazed their way into your affections.

LOL 'This', REALLY, was 'the way' some adult human beings thought was 'the way' to DISCUSS things. And, WORST OF ALL, in a 'philosophy forum', of all places. 'This', REALLY, was HOW BAD things had gotten, BACK in the 'olden days' when this was being written.

In my impressions, fathers SHOULD care about the quality of young men vying for their daughter's attentions. It's perhaps one of the most important aspects of life.

One of the MAIN REASONS WHY things had gotten SO BAD, was BECAUSE adults would just NOT 'look at' what they, "themselves", did, but, instead, almost always 'LOOKED AT' what 'others' would do, and did.

The REASON WHY CHANGE, for the BETTER, took SO LONG to HAPPEN, and OCCUR, was BECAUSE of 'this' almost always 'LOOKING AT' 'the other', and NEVER 'AT' "themselves". And, if they ever did 'LOOK AT' "themselves" is was ALSO ALMOST ALWAYS ONLY 'CRITICALLY', AS WELL. NEVER for CHANGE SAKE, and to BECOME WISER. But, to just REGRET, and/or CRITICIZE.

Furthermore, it should be pretty common among actually-married families and actual-biological fathers...they're usually very PROUD and OUTSPOKEN about scaring off and intimidating low-quality males, creeps, pedos, and weirdos, from skeezing on their daughters.

LOL And what does God and/or "jesus christ" SAY, EXACTLY, about 'being proud' and 'outspoken or boastful'?

ONCE AGAIN, this one is ABSOLUTELY OBLIVIOUS to just how CONTRADICTORY, and HYPOCRITICAL, it REALLY IS, here.

That SHOULD be normal. It's just not normal...for you.

LOL Yes I AM SURE God, and/or "jesus christ" PROMOTE the loving and caring of SOME, ONLY, and the JUDGING, HATING, and RIDICULING of 'the others'.

"wizard22" it appears that you could not become MORE BACKWARDS and BLIND, here.

[Wizard22]

Religion is merely a business transaction in the west, it is there for entertainment. You think the churches are hypocritical? I was a seminarian in the eastern rite church for 2 years and the hypocrisy is even worse in the seminaries.

The Demand for religion seems to coincide with desperation and hopelessness in a society. The early American Colonialists needed their Bible-Thumping-Protestant cults when they came over--because the first decades and centuries were unbearably difficult. Since America became rich, the demand and need for Religion waned, while Liberalism and Secularism rose up to take their places.

Hypocrisy is strong in every ideology though, it seems. People are after their individual rewards and immediate gratifications, first and foremost.

[Wizard22]

No. I'm accelafine.

Riiiiiight...

Are you Satyr,

Do I seem that Greek to you?? (The answer is: No)

or whatever other pseudonyms you are using? Do you even know what a pseudonym is?

I've had one other Username on this forum, a long time ago, but you wouldn't recognize it.

What about 'sculptor' who is now permanently banned but had at least a dozon accounts under different names?

He's banned? Sad, I enjoyed his vigor, even adjoined with his rabid ignorance and idiocy. That's a loss to the forum.

[accelafine]

I've had one other Username on this forum, a long time ago, but you wouldn't recognize it.

The POINT is...drum roll... I don't fucking care.

[Wizard22]

And, who inspected the genitals of the "nun" and the "sisters"? "Themselves"? Or, did they not have to be "virgins"?

Some nuns were devoted to lifelong chastity, same as priests. Others, I believe, joined the Sisterhood as means of penance and repentance. So there might have been reformed, previously promiscuous women among them.

But, WHY would someone tell the Truth if they were going to be judged, disciplined, punished, humiliated, and/or not be allowed to do what they wanted to do, like, for example, 'getting married'?

Because some families value Truth, Trust, and Wisdom of their Elders, before short-term gains and hedonistic pursuits.

LOL Why did they, supposedly, HAVE TO?

Also, this one, OBVIOUSLY, still has absolutely NO idea what the word 'marriage' was actually meaning and referring to, EXACTLY.

Because promiscuous women cannot Marry in a House of God. It's a Sin, and a violation of His Law.

It's a betrayal, to God and Husband. Trust in her, like her hymen, is already broken. She's devoted to another man, not her Husband.

So, to this one anyway, ALL "orphans" are BECAUSE their biological fathers abandoned them when they were born. And, there were NO other reasons.

I didn't come up with the Terms and Rules or God's Laws...so don't blame me for it.

If you abandon your children, then that is Bastardization. Bastards beget more bastards. The term "Bastard" is derogatory against promiscuous and sloven peasants. In the Medieval Eras, when Catholicism dominated, a family's reputation meant everything. You couldn't rise up in Class, while going against the Church and God's Laws. This meant that your family had to subscribe to Morals and Ethics, often against personal will or individualistic desire.

LOL This one could not be MORE NARROWED or CLOSED in its view/s, here?

Also, LOL 'should'.

So you'd rather complete strangers take care of your orphaned children, should you die, than your own family and kin?

That's ridiculous.

I only asked you, What even is a 'bastard', to you.

No one really cares what other views you have, here.

Everybody cares, especially you.

But, HOW is a father meant to 'be there' with the daughters ALWAYS?

you really do have some very funny views and BELIEFS, here.

It's called Trust, something foreign to you, obviously.

Which you are a part of and part of a cause of, correct?

Or, do you not include "yourself", here?

Yes, if I had a daughter, then I'd not want her cavorting with peasants, the circus, gypsies, criminals, drug-dealers, and the like.

This SHOULD BE common sense. But it's not, in 2025. This is something you have to re-educate the public with, even so-called "Adults".

WHY did you only mention and talk about "women" and "mothers" doing as bad, sometimes worse, than some "fathers" and "men", but TOTALLY IGNORED that you, ALSO, do things that others DETEST, and HATE, ABSOLUTELY.

If your questions are an indictment against me, personally, then go ahead and ask your questions. Otherwise we're generalizing about the behaviors of ALL Western men and women.

See, how 'these people' will NOT just ANSWER VERY SIMPLE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed, and asked, to them.

This one's response, here, ONCE AGAIN, did NOT relate to ANY of the three ACTUAL CLARIFYING QUESTIONS asked.

That's because your computerized Q&A is a daunting feat, AgeGPT. You go off on countless, infinite tangents. It's difficult for normal humans to keep up with you.

Go ahead then, inform me.

Are you SAYING that you are NOT YET AWARE of the CONTRADICTION, and HYPOCRISY, here?

If you ANSWER with a 'Yes', then I WILL INFORM you.

Yes, go ahead then, inform me.

Is your opening post a so-called 'real argument', or, just what you believe is true and/or something else?

Feel free to ANSWER the ACTUAL QUESTION whenever you like.

Yes, it's a real argument.

It used to be common practice, in previous Centuries and Eras, in Europe, that potential Brides wanting to marry, had to be virgin and chaste. And if they weren't, then they could not be married in the House of God. This practice was lost, and Western Civilization witnesses the results today. Eventually, its practiced became absorbed among the Highest classes, Royalty, Nobility, Monarchs...but the middle and lower classes, serfs and peasants, left it behind.

"Protestantism" made it worse, because as seen in America today, they'll marry anybody for any reason: cats, dogs, homosexuals, you name it, they'll "marry" it. So it's a mockery of Religion, Western culture, and most other morals.

It's the exact opposite of Tradition, Religion, and Moral values. Today is upside-down world.

What happens if a female body is born without a hymen? Can they NEVER get married?

Or is that an IMPOSSIBILITY, to you.

It would be up to the Church; I imagine they would say No. If girls break their hymen, not through sex, then they're still out and cannot be married.

Are "virgin guys" NOT talked about, nor discussed, in school, among "teenage boys and girls"?

If 'a guy is a virgin or not' is a topic of discussion, sometimes, among "teenage boys and/or girls", does this MEAN that those "boys and girls" did NOT learn, at 13 years of age, what you, supposedly, did?

Again, boys/men/males cannot be "virgins" because they don't have vaginas, and therefore don't have hymens. Males can be 'sexless', yes, innocent or ignorant about sex. And this is something that needs addressed. But a young male who had sex previously, can be married, yes.

Virginity is about females, not males. Gender/Sex is NOT "Equal". Males and females are not Equal.

[accelafine]

Oh please, most nuns were raving lesbians.

[Wizard22]

Are you AWARE of just how Truly 'JUDGEY' you are.

are you even AWARE that how you are coming across, here, is even MORE DETESTED, and HATED, than the DETEST, and HATRED, that you have for human beings who do not FOLLOW and ABIDE BY your views, and values?

you seem to be COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to the Fact that what you are doing, here, is even MORE HATED than the HATRED you have.

And, what you are doing, here, is HATED, MORE, by the ONLY One who can JUSTIFIABLY JUDGE.

What WILL BE SEEN on what is sometimes referred to as JUDGMENT DAY is that what you are DOING, here, is JUDGED AS the WORST of THE WORST.

Technically, they're not "MY" views and values. They're the Catholic Church's morals and views, which they put into practice for thousands of years. Here is "MY" view and value--if it worked, and worked well, then shouldn't it be reviewed? Shouldn't it be compared to today, where the exact-opposite values are held by "Liberals"? I believe it should.

As Philosophers and Philosophy, I believe there's a duty to look into things like this, if and especially when it may benefit people or entire societies to do so.

'ghetto types'.

Could you be MORE of a 'judgey type' "wizard22"?

It's not me being "judgmental". It's just the truth. Lots of low-class people live in ghettos. Why is this a problem for you?

And, what does God and/or "jesus christ" SAY in regards to people, like you, 'judging others', EXACTLY?

I presume Jesus H. Christ, Lord and Savior of Humanity, may agree with me. The lowest classes and most despairing people, are most in need of Moral and Ethical rehabilitation. So they NEED moral guidance, spiritual guidance, more than everybody else. As mentioned, the highest classes, who still practice these strict morals, don't "NEED" reaffirmation since they already believe in these principles.

It's the low, who if they wished to 'Rise Up', or at least live decent and somewhat happy lives, that they ought to listen.

And, the "west", and its STEEP DESCENT, CAME FROM "christians" and/or "catholicism". So, OBVIOUSLY, what does this SAY ABOUT "catholicism" and/or "christianity", itself.

No it didn't...the STEEP DESCENT came from Westerners renouncing and rejecting Christianity, aka Catholicism.

JUST MAYBE 'the messages' that were getting PAST DOWN have been MISINTERPRETED, MISUNDERSTOOD, MISPERCEIVED, MISTAKEN, and/or JUST PLAIN OLD MISSED, from what was ORIGINALLY MEANT?

Obviously it's easy for morals to spoil, ethics and society to go bad and rotten.

OBVIOUSLY NONE of 'these people', here, UNDERSTOOD what the word 'marriage' ORIGINALLY MEANT. As that word has been VERY CLEARLY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

Peasants and the lower classes do not understand the value of Marriage, or marrying in the House of God, or making Oaths to God, or Promises.

Marriage is one of these; it is arguably the most Sacred ceremony of life. Because a man and woman, husband and bride, are then devoted to procreation and making children together.

LOL you are just SAYING and CLAIMING that "the west" is on a downhill spiral BECAUSE of "fathers" who, supposedly, 'do not give a shit', as you call it.

So, what is 'it', here, "wizard22"? If "the west" is in such a DECLINE, as you say and claim it is, then WHY is this, if LOL 99% of the rest of "the west" are "fathers" who 'give a shit'?

Fathers AND Mothers, yes.

Bastardization is leading, or it definitely coincides at least, with the degradation of Western Civilization. Feminization, "No Fault Divorce" is a major sign and culprit. Veg's defensiveness here in the thread, betrays the truth. She detests the idea of virgin/chaste marriages. So that's symbolic. Feminists have a lot to answer for, here.

I'm sorry that your father abandoned you, and obviously didn't care what kind of low-quality men sleazed their way into your affections.

LOL 'This', REALLY, was 'the way' some adult human beings thought was 'the way' to DISCUSS things. And, WORST OF ALL, in a 'philosophy forum', of all places. 'This', REALLY, was HOW BAD things had gotten, BACK in the 'olden days' when this was being written.

I agree, it has gotten bad, hence why I wrote it.

It doesn't make sense to me why Veg, or other women, wouldn't want to defend their daughter's innocence from 'Bad' men, or predatory men who want to 'pump & dump' their daughters. Who, in their right mind, wants their daughter to become a prostitute or single-mother??? Tell me, AgeGPT, dammit tell me!

One of the MAIN REASONS WHY things had gotten SO BAD, was BECAUSE adults would just NOT 'look at' what they, "themselves", did, but, instead, almost always 'LOOKED AT' what 'others' would do, and did.

The REASON WHY CHANGE, for the BETTER, took SO LONG to HAPPEN, and OCCUR, was BECAUSE of 'this' almost always 'LOOKING AT' 'the other', and NEVER 'AT' "themselves". And, if they ever did 'LOOK AT' "themselves" is was ALSO ALMOST ALWAYS ONLY 'CRITICALLY', AS WELL. NEVER for CHANGE SAKE, and to BECOME WISER. But, to just REGRET, and/or CRITICIZE.

This is BULLSHIT, AgeGPT.

LOL And what does God and/or "jesus christ" SAY, EXACTLY, about 'being proud' and 'outspoken or boastful'?

ONCE AGAIN, this one is ABSOLUTELY OBLIVIOUS to just how CONTRADICTORY, and HYPOCRITICAL, it REALLY IS, here.

If God is proud of making Mankind, then God would be proud of a Father and Mother making beautiful, happy, healthy, moral Children.

That would be where Pride is NOT and NEVER a Sin. It is always a beautiful thing--the most beautiful in fact.

Yes I do believe God wants Humanity to be PROUD of their children.

LOL Yes I AM SURE God, and/or "jesus christ" PROMOTE the loving and caring of SOME, ONLY, and the JUDGING, HATING, and RIDICULING of 'the others'.

"wizard22" it appears that you could not become MORE BACKWARDS and BLIND, here.

There's a difference between "judging" and "stating it like it is".

If poor people engage in hedonistic promiscuity, then are condemned to the Ghettos. It takes a higher Morality, Ethics, Discipline, Strictness, to raise yourself, and your family, out of it. Chastity is one of those values.