Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

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Gary Childress
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Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by Gary Childress »

"Brave New World" ("Dystopia") or "Best New World" ("Utopia")?

Apologies for using ChatGPT. I suppose, it makes this opinion more neutral and not "my idea", though.
You said:
Is there a name for a political system that is run by the most pious and wise?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT

Yes, a political system run by the most pious and wise could be referred to as a theocracy if the focus is primarily on religious piety, or sophocracy if the emphasis is on wisdom and intelligence.

Definitions:

Theocracy: A form of government in which religious leaders, or those deemed most spiritually enlightened, govern in accordance with divine principles or religious doctrine.

Sophocracy: From the Greek words sophos (wise) and kratos (rule), this would describe a government led by the most wise and learned individuals.

If the system explicitly combines both wisdom and piety, it could be a hybrid of these concepts, though no widely recognized term exists for that exact combination. Philosophically, it might align with Plato’s idea of a "philosopher-king" where governance is entrusted to individuals with a high degree of virtue, wisdom, and moral integrity.

Would you like to explore a hypothetical name or structure for such a system?
You said:
Yes. What could be a hypothetical name for such a system?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT

A hypothetical name for a political system run by the most pious and wise could be:

"Sophotheocracy"

*"Sophos" (wisdom) + "Theos" (god/piety) + "Kratos" (rule or power)

*This name reflects a governance system that equally values wisdom and spiritual piety.

"Aretecracy"

*"Arete" (Greek for virtue or excellence) + "Kratos" (rule)

*This term emphasizes governance based on the virtues of wisdom, morality, and piety combined.

"Noocracy"

*"Nous" (mind or intellect) + "Kratos" (rule)

*This name could also encompass spiritual wisdom and enlightenment, extending beyond mere intellectualism to include moral and spiritual depth.

"Hierosophy"

*"Hieros" (sacred) + "Sophia" (wisdom)

*This term suggests governance led by those who are both sacred (pious) and wise.

"Sapientocracy"

*"Sapientia" (Latin for wisdom) + "Kratos" (rule)

*Focused on the rule of the most profoundly wise individuals, with piety as a potential implicit trait of wisdom.

"Pneumocracy"

*"Pneuma" (spirit or soul) + "Kratos" (rule)

*Reflects governance by individuals whose spiritual and intellectual insights guide their leadership.

Would you like a deeper exploration into one of these, or suggestions for how such a system might work in practice?
You said:
Yes. How might such a system work in practice?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT

A system governed by the most pious and wise would require careful design to ensure it avoids corruption, elitism, or inefficiency. Below is a framework for how such a system—let's call it "Sophotheocracy"—might work in practice:

Core Principles

1.Wisdom and Piety as Criteria: Leaders are selected based on their demonstrated wisdom (intellectual and practical) and piety (moral integrity and spirituality).

2.Merit-Based Governance: Positions of power are not hereditary or democratic but based on a rigorous selection process to ensure only the most virtuous individuals govern.

3.Focus on Common Good: All decisions are aimed at improving the well-being of society, guided by both moral principles and rational thinking.

Institutional Structure

1.Council of Sages:

A central governing body composed of individuals who embody wisdom, moral character, and spiritual insight.

Members are elected through a process of peer review, where only those already recognized for their wisdom and virtue can nominate and vote.

The council oversees legislative, judicial, and executive functions to ensure alignment with the system's ethical principles.

2.Sacred Assembly:

A separate body representing spiritual traditions, responsible for providing moral guidance to ensure that laws and policies align with ethical and spiritual values.

Includes representatives from diverse faiths and philosophical schools, fostering inclusivity.

3.The Academy of Virtue:

An institution tasked with identifying, training, and evaluating future leaders.

Curriculum includes philosophy, ethics, science, theology, and practical governance.

Admission and graduation are based on demonstrated excellence in wisdom, empathy, and service.

4.People’s Council:

While not directly governing, this council allows citizens to express concerns, propose ideas, and hold leaders accountable.

Acts as a feedback loop between the leaders and the population.

Selection Process

Assessment of Wisdom:

Candidates undergo rigorous intellectual testing, demonstrating expertise in various fields (e.g., philosophy, science, governance).

Peer-reviewed contributions to society are evaluated.

Assessment of Piety:

A public and private record of moral behavior and service to others is assessed.

Candidates must pass a series of moral and ethical dilemmas to demonstrate integrity.

Public Confirmation:

The public has the opportunity to review and challenge the selection process to prevent nepotism or bias.

A majority vote of confidence from the population is required to confirm appointments.

Checks and Balances

Transparency:

All decisions are documented and justified in public forums to maintain trust.

Leaders are required to explain how their actions align with wisdom and moral principles.

Term Limits:

Leaders serve limited terms to prevent stagnation or power concentration.

Regular evaluations ensure they remain virtuous and effective.

Ethical Oversight:

An independent body monitors leaders’ behavior, with the authority to remove those who stray from the system's principles.

How It Functions Day-to-Day

Legislation:

Laws are drafted by the Council of Sages, ensuring they are rooted in rational thought and ethical principles.

The Sacred Assembly reviews these laws to confirm alignment with moral and spiritual values.

Judiciary:

Disputes are resolved by judges trained in both legal reasoning and ethical philosophy.

Decisions are made with consideration for fairness, justice, and societal harmony.

Public Engagement:

Citizens are encouraged to participate in regular debates, town halls, and discussions to provide input on governance.

Challenges and Solutions

Risk of Elitism:

Ensure diverse representation across social, cultural, and economic groups.

Maintain strong public participation mechanisms.

Potential for Corruption:

Implement strict oversight and enforce accountability.

Regular evaluations and the ability to recall leaders help maintain trust.

Defining Wisdom and Piety:

Establish clear, universally agreed-upon metrics to assess these qualities.

Use interdisciplinary panels to avoid bias in evaluations.

Such a system combines rational governance with moral responsibility. Its success would hinge on a balance of transparency, inclusivity, and constant vigilance against abuses of power. What aspects of this system would you like to refine or explore further?
I suppose, to borrow from Catholicism, there should also be a position within this government called "The Cynic's Advocate" or perhaps "The Anarchist's Advocate". Or maybe make it two positions and both of those positions ought to be filled.

Or should we humans just stick to being fragmented and locally administrated without any greater oversight than that--perhaps a loose confederation of local municipalities--never to be united?

What are your thoughts on the above?

Good or bad?

Attainable or unattainable?

Worthy of being used as a template or unworthy of being used as a template?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

We doing The Republic here?
Gary Childress
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:40 pm We doing The Republic here?
I don't know. I was asking ChatGPT out of curiosity. Sometimes I wonder if the US hasn't become such a state. We have all these advisory committees and "departments" that are here to "advise" our elected leaders. I've seen a few "Republican" representatives here in the US refer to all these advisory committees as "alphabet soup" because they seem to get frustrated that even they (representatives of their districts) are sometimes constrained by Federal advisors who have their own opinions--albeit perhaps more informed ones, I don't know.
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accelafine
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by accelafine »

The more I see of 'chatGPT' the less I worry about AI. What an idiot it is :lol:
Impenitent
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by Impenitent »

you can have the smartest people on the planet making all the rules- the most pious and wise

it is still the bottom 20% breaking them

kill or imprison the bottom 20%

keep chasing your tail

-Imp
Wizard22
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by Wizard22 »

My views on politics are changing.

The masses should be barred from politics, voting, and representation in general unless:

1) Ethnically homogeneous family, married (first marriage only), with 4 legitimate children.
2) Own $100,000,000.00 in Assets.
3) Have 3+ straight generations of military legacy (20 year stretches each).

Fulfilling each of these grants you 'one' vote each.

Then, and only then, should these count as 'Citizens'. Everybody else should be barred from Politics, and their opinions discarded/censored in general.


Sorry OP, I'm guessing you're Out.
promethean75
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by promethean75 »

Alright, well, you know what this means, then. I stand with Rousseau and the oldest of old anarchists and assert that if you do not give me the right to emancipate myself from your society - which includes allowing me to do whatever i want beyond your city walls - and instead hold me to be obligated to your laws (which i have no say so in establishing because i have no vote) and attempt to punish me if i transgress them, you are for all intents and purposes declaring war on the prom and threatening to do great and unjust harm unto him.

So this would mean that all 'constracts' with the state for the non-voting citizen would only be valid if the citizen was given the option to default and leave the city legally (go into the lawless zone like in the movies) but chose instead to stay and agree to a contract with the state (despite him not being able to vote).

Do you, indeed, grant me this right, counselor? Can you grant me this right? But where would i go? You own all the land and subject me to rules everywhere. I can't even climb a tree without being arrested for trespassing.

Looks like you're in trouble. Imagine a whole philosophical movement called anarchism that proceeds from this very first basic premise and principle; if i have no say-so, you have no say-so about what i choose to do. If i do have a say-so, how do i have it if not by a vote?

Give me a vote or give me my freedom!
promethean75
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by promethean75 »

You've been over there at KT with those godless greek ultra-conservative ripped six pack havin amazon prime leather jacket in a cold russian apartment stairwell wearin' alt-right sometimes Julius Evola readin' eugenic practicing sexy blonde swedish girlfriend havin' Danzig listenin' to jew hatin' master race timocrats again, hent'cha?
godelian
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by godelian »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:35 pm Is there a name for a political system that is run by the most pious and wise?
And then there is something called "human nature". What does it look like?
https://scitechdaily.com/if-it-pays-to- ... ry-puzzle/

If It Pays To Be a Jerk, Why Isn’t Everyone That Way?

A research study found that male chimpanzees with bullying, greedy, and irritable personalities achieved higher social status and had greater reproductive success than their more submissive and conscientious counterparts.
Women know this instinctively:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/bl ... r-bad-boys

Why Do Women Go for "Bad Boys"?

When you seriously fall for a bad boy, more often than not, he's tinged with psychopathic tendencies.

The real bad boys don’t hide their psychopathic edges. That’s part of their attraction. Maybe that’s the heart of their attraction.

Not only are they indifferent to things that would frighten most normal citizens, men and women alike, they're entirely without a moral compass.

The psychopath/sociopath never feels guilty; they’re never ashamed.
Women go for bad boys because that is the kind of personality that reaches the pinnacle of political power.

Nice guys finish last, also in politics. You are supposed to bully your way to the top if you want to become the supreme arsehole.

Humanity lives in gangs, are natural gangsters, and prefer to follow their mafia boss.

The pious and the wise will never manage to elbow their way to the top. Somewhere along the road, a psychopath will push them from the twelfth floor out of the window.

Just like women don't want to have sex with a nice guy, we really don't want a nice guy at the top as our supreme leader. On the contrary, he has to be an incorrigible arsehole.
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by attofishpi »

accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 12:42 am The more I see of 'chatGPT' the less I worry about AI. What an idiot it is :lol:
Really? The AI is the only entity that actually made any sense in this thread.
godelian
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by godelian »

Impenitent wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 12:58 am you can have the smartest people on the planet making all the rules- the most pious and wise

it is still the bottom 20% breaking them

kill or imprison the bottom 20%

keep chasing your tail

-Imp
The top is as criminal as the bottom, if not more. The question is rather, of whom do we tolerate that they break the rules?
godelian
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by godelian »

accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 12:42 am The more I see of 'chatGPT' the less I worry about AI. What an idiot it is :lol:
ChatGPT is the proverbial "nice guy". He is always rational. However, rationality is just a veneer on top of the animal-like true nature of humanity. The guy at the top will always be a complete arsehole. Otherwise, he will find himself pushed out of the window from the 47th floor by someone who doesn't hesitate to elbow, bully, and backstab his way to the top. Welcome to the real world.
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by Gary Childress »

godelian wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 4:10 am
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 12:42 am The more I see of 'chatGPT' the less I worry about AI. What an idiot it is :lol:
ChatGPT is the proverbial "nice guy". He is always rational. However, rationality is just a veneer on top of the animal-like true nature of humanity. The guy at the top will always be a complete arsehole. Otherwise, he will find himself pushed out of the window from the 47th floor by someone who doesn't hesitate to elbow, bully, and backstab his way to the top. Welcome to the real world.
Not all people who make it to the top are bullies or backstabbers. The real problem facing the world right now is the product of the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. The problems that rich boy Bin Laden created (if he and Al Potato were indeed responsible for 9/11) should have been solved diplomatically but George Bush and his advisors (who had the backing of most evangelicals in the US--but mostly ties to the oil industry here) ended up fucking the world up.

Bush's rival in the 2000 presidential race was Al Gore, mainly running on a promise of tackling environmental problems. He actually won the popular vote but the electoral college in all i's wisdom thought furthering the cause of oil would be better. Now look at the world.

If you want to find the most depraved humans on earth, look no further than anyone who is working for an industry that we all know is going to destroy us all. (Take those who market tobacco products as another example). And Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the Hama's attacks on Israel certainly aren't helping matters in the world either.

It may be a while before things settle down. But eventually they will, and we'll all be a little less cynical toward humanity. There are many good people out there among the human race and they're all over the world. It'll just take some time to get us all on the right track again.
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by attofishpi »

Shut up Gazza, the problem is Islam. If we arn't blowing them up, they are blowing each other up - they constantly state they love death more than we love life.

Why don't you look at what Muslims are doing to Hindus in Bangledesh and other parts of ME/Asia with other religions.

I am quite happy to assist them in their dream of being with 72 virgins (they're all very fat & ugly, why do you think they are virgins?)
Gary Childress
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Re: Politics: Something to Ponder for Humanity's Future?

Post by Gary Childress »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 8:38 pm Shut up Gazza, the problem is Islam. If we arn't blowing them up, they are blowing each other up - they constantly state they love death more than we love life.

Why don't you look at what Muslims are doing to Hindus in Bangledesh and other parts of ME/Asia with other religions.

I am quite happy to assist them in their dream of being with 72 virgins (they're all very fat & ugly, why do you think they are virgins?)
I don't understand how participating in war and strife is going to end war and strife, unless the goal is to kill off everyone participating in it--which would then include us if we follow such advice.
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