Can the Religious Be Trusted?

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BigMike
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Re: Can the Religious Be Trusted?

Post by BigMike »

seeds wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 2:07 am
BigMike wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:19 am To the terrified child facing death: we offer presence, love, and the assurance that they are not alone. Determinism doesn’t demand brutal honesty in the face of terror—it calls for compassion. A parent can hold their child and speak of the love that surrounds them, the peace that will follow, and the beauty of their courage and strength.
Pretend that you are the little girl's father.

She asked you a specific and unambiguous question:

"...Daddy, what's going to happen to me when I die?..."

She is absolutely terrified at the thought of dying in the next day or so, and no amount of hugging and avoiding answering her direct question is going to diminish her fear.

In which case, are you so utterly unyielding in your rigid belief in determinism that you (at the very least) couldn't just say...

"...Sweetie, I don't know. No one knows for sure..."

...???

Which, in fact, is the actual truth, for crying out loud, despite your bullheadedness in denying that fact.

Or even better yet, to truly help comfort your little girl, why in the world couldn't you simply say...

"...You are going to awaken into a more beautiful world, and that mommy and daddy will soon be joining you there. It's going to be wonderful..."

...???

I mean, for goodness' sake, man, it's not like after she actually dies in, say, two days from the moment of that comforting conversation, that she's going to be in a position to accuse you of lying to her. For, according to your take on determinism, her life and consciousness will have blinked out of existence - forever.

Come on, my articulate friend, you need to rejoin scarecrow and the cowardly lion in the search for that special item ❤ you are missing.
_______
Seeds, let's not sugarcoat the realities of many religious teachings. A child raised within most religious frameworks would already be grappling with the terrifying prospect that they might face eternal damnation—a gamble where they’re taught the outcome is entirely in God’s hands. That’s hardly comforting; it’s a cruel 50-50 roll of the dice wrapped in divine authority.

As an atheist and a determinist, I would offer her something profoundly different: certainty in compassion. I would tell her, gently and honestly, that when the time comes, the pain and fear will fade, and she will feel peace. The lights go out, yes, but she will never truly leave us. She will live on in the hearts of those who loved her, in the stories we tell, and in the lives she’s touched. That’s not a lie. It’s a truth grounded in the love and memory that bind us.

You suggest fabricating a tale about a beautiful afterlife to soothe her. But why add more fiction to a world already burdened with comforting lies? Honesty doesn’t mean cruelty. It means guiding her with warmth, love, and the assurance that she has been deeply valued and cherished. I won’t exploit her vulnerability with stories I don’t believe. I’ll hold her close and remind her of the love that will outlast everything, even death. That’s the truth I stand by, and it’s one worth sharing.
Dubious
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by Dubious »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:40 pm
Dubious wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:20 pm People will believe what suits them to believe, that is, whatever makes them comfortable. That hasn't changed since the bible was written or Christianity was invented. It's a choice one makes while one lives...and that's all I got to say on the matter because there really isn't much more to say.
...this is rather peculiar Dubious.

I'm in a rather strange spot in my point in time & space, and as you know I've always respected you and your atheism. (btw 7am after a big night)

...well anyway, I've spent tonight drinking Peroni *a lovely Italian lager....nonetheless, contemplating the fact that I have many sore parts of my body since yet again, having to deal with a group of stupid people.

But anyway, I want to embarrass you by stating that I love you. (ok, the reason was not to embarrass you or me, but I am very good at smacking the crap out of people's feelings, especially at this time of stupid season - ya know, where the man I love more than NE did wot he did, for a reason u should by now comprehend, even if u don't believe it happened. Je_sus CHRIST :)


Honestly mate, I came home - got a very sore ankle after feeling the need to throw some idiot in front of a moving truck.. I wonder sometimes, wot world is this life of Brian in - to deserve such ....woteva - I HATE GOD with these moments..BECAUSE...I know GOD (and I wonder Y it permitted this)

Does this entity truly want me to keep away from ALL of my ol' friends? - woteva

I did tear up tho, thinking of you (my FAVOURITE atheist) ---fuk nose Y I find U so intriguing as an inquisitive atheist. 8)


I love u doood, have a good Christmas.
I don't really regard myself as a bona fide atheist...a-theist as being strictly against theism. Let atheists and theists have their day and say. Good insights should be accepted from any source, whether from a supposed god, a sage or just a normal person. It just can't be stupid as in a god dying for our sins...not the brightest decision god ever made to put it mildly, or dumber still, that one must believe in him to be saved. Does that also include the Jews who don't believe in him and all the rest who have their own religion? This is the IC version of religion, as fucked up as having one's butt level with one's face.

Anyway, best of the season to you, which is another way of saying as good as it can get!

Btw, thanks for the Underworld link. It was really useful in expediting a bowel movement. The relief was tremendous! I cried in gratitude!
BigMike
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Re: Can the Religious Be Trusted?

Post by BigMike »

Determinism, when deeply understood and embraced, serves as an unshakeable foundation for navigating every facet of life. It provides a clarity that cuts through the noise of uncertainty and the chaos of emotional reactions. By recognizing that everything—every action, every decision, every outcome—is a result of preceding causes governed by unyielding physical laws, we gain a perspective that can ground us, whether we’re facing life’s mundane moments or its most excruciating challenges.

The Mundane: Finding Peace in Simplicity
In daily life, determinism reminds us that every action we take is part of a vast, interconnected web of causality. From choosing what to eat for breakfast to deciding which route to take to work, there’s a serenity in knowing that these choices are not arbitrary but shaped by countless prior influences—our upbringing, preferences, physical state, and environment.

This perspective reduces the burden of overthinking. Decisions become less about endless deliberation and more about recognizing the flow of cause and effect. Even small frustrations, like being stuck in traffic, are easier to handle when we understand they’re not personal injustices but outcomes of a system operating as it must. Determinism fosters acceptance, allowing us to navigate daily life with greater ease and less emotional turmoil.

The Difficult: Facing Life’s Challenges with Resilience
When life throws its hardest challenges—loss, heartbreak, illness—a firm belief in determinism provides a steadying hand. It helps us see that suffering, while deeply personal, is not random or unfair but the natural result of a complex chain of events. This understanding doesn’t erase pain, but it reframes it, offering a broader context that can be profoundly comforting.

Determinism encourages us to let go of blame—of ourselves, of others, of circumstances—because all actions and events are driven by forces beyond any single individual’s control. This perspective frees us from the weight of resentment and regret. Instead of asking "Why me?" or "What could I have done differently?" we can focus on what’s within our ability to influence now. It shifts our energy from dwelling on the past to embracing the present and preparing for the future.

The Excruciating: Finding Strength in the Unthinkable
In moments of profound loss or existential despair, determinism can be a lifeline. The knowledge that all things arise from the same fundamental principles—that our pain, as overwhelming as it feels, is a part of the same universe that creates joy and wonder—can be grounding. Determinism teaches us that while we may not have chosen the circumstances we face, we can still respond with grace and courage.

For instance, when confronted with the death of a loved one, determinism offers the perspective that their life was a beautiful result of countless causes coming together—a unique and unrepeatable phenomenon. Their absence, while deeply felt, is part of the same inevitable process that brought them into existence. This understanding doesn’t diminish the pain, but it allows us to honor their memory without being consumed by questions of "what if."

The Guiding Principles: Stability, Compassion, and Action
Belief in determinism cultivates a mindset of stability and compassion. It teaches us to approach others with empathy, knowing that their actions, like ours, are shaped by circumstances beyond their control. It softens judgments and fosters understanding, which is invaluable in relationships and communities.

At the same time, determinism isn’t about passivity or resignation. On the contrary, it highlights the profound impact of every action we take as part of the causal chain. It motivates us to act deliberately and purposefully, knowing that even the smallest effort can ripple outward in ways we might never fully understand. Whether it’s offering kindness to a stranger, pursuing a creative endeavor, or advocating for change, our actions matter—they are part of shaping the future.

A Firm Footing in an Unpredictable World
Determinism doesn’t promise a life free of pain or difficulty. What it offers is a framework that grounds us in reality, providing stability in a world that often feels chaotic. It allows us to see beauty in the interconnectedness of all things and to approach life with a sense of calm, resilience, and purpose. Whether we’re savoring a quiet moment or weathering a storm, determinism gives us a solid footing, reminding us that we are part of something vast, inevitable, and extraordinary.
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attofishpi
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Can ATHEISTS Be Trusted?

Post by attofishpi »

Dubious wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 7:02 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:40 pm
Dubious wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:20 pm People will believe what suits them to believe, that is, whatever makes them comfortable. That hasn't changed since the bible was written or Christianity was invented. It's a choice one makes while one lives...and that's all I got to say on the matter because there really isn't much more to say.
...this is rather peculiar Dubious.

I'm in a rather strange spot in my point in time & space, and as you know I've always respected you and your atheism. (btw 7am after a big night)

...well anyway, I've spent tonight drinking Peroni *a lovely Italian lager....nonetheless, contemplating the fact that I have many sore parts of my body since yet again, having to deal with a group of stupid people.

But anyway, I want to embarrass you by stating that I love you. (ok, the reason was not to embarrass you or me, but I am very good at smacking the crap out of people's feelings, especially at this time of stupid season - ya know, where the man I love more than NE did wot he did, for a reason u should by now comprehend, even if u don't believe it happened. Je_sus CHRIST :)


Honestly mate, I came home - got a very sore ankle after feeling the need to throw some idiot in front of a moving truck.. I wonder sometimes, wot world is this life of Brian in - to deserve such ....woteva - I HATE GOD with these moments..BECAUSE...I know GOD (and I wonder Y it permitted this)

Does this entity truly want me to keep away from ALL of my ol' friends? - woteva

I did tear up tho, thinking of you (my FAVOURITE atheist) ---fuk nose Y I find U so intriguing as an inquisitive atheist. 8)


I love u doood, have a good Christmas.
I don't really regard myself as a bona fide atheist...a-theist as being strictly against theism.
Personally, I am a bona fide boonyist of boonyism https://boonyism.com/

(* and something akin to a Christian Pantheist)

Dubious wrote:Let atheists and theists have their day and say. Good insights should be accepted from any source, whether from a supposed god, a sage or just a normal person. It just can't be stupid as in a god dying for our sins...
Agreed. ..and I have pointed out in the past that it doesn't work as simple as that.

Dubious wrote:..not the brightest decision god ever made to put it mildly, or dumber still, that one must believe in him to be saved. Does that also include the Jews who don't believe in him and all the rest who have their own religion? This is the IC version of religion, as fucked up as having one's butt level with one's face.
Mmm, if anyone fails to UNDER_STAND Y Christ did it, then that's their failing *PHILOSOPHICALLY*

Dubious wrote:Anyway, best of the season to you, which is another way of saying as good as it can get!
That's OK Dubious, I can live with humans upon an internet forum that know me no more than the soap they wash their hands with and have no reason nor will to grant any term of love towards me 8)


Dubious wrote:Btw, thanks for the Underworld link. It was really useful in expediting a bowel movement. The relief was tremendous! I cried in gratitude!
Terrible wasn't it - it popped up on my utube feed but at the time it resonated with my fucked up emotions after dealing with Oz coward scum (yet again)

The amazing thing about 'Underworld' is that they were there at the age I moved to Oz - 15 on an album I bought - with "underneath the radar"

...and certainly, I do feel they are sages - ageless to this day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9qlFhEAGww
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:40 pm Honestly mate, I came home - got a very sore ankle after feeling the need to throw some idiot in front of a moving truck.. I wonder sometimes, wot world is this life of Brian in - to deserve such ....woteva - I HATE GOD with these moments..BECAUSE...I know GOD (and I wonder Y it permitted this)
Should you be in prison?
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accelafine
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by accelafine »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:40 pm

Honestly mate, I came home - got a very sore ankle after feeling the need to throw some idiot in front of a moving truck..
Are you confessing to murder here?
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attofishpi
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by attofishpi »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:26 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:40 pm Honestly mate, I came home - got a very sore ankle after feeling the need to throw some idiot in front of a moving truck.. I wonder sometimes, wot world is this life of Brian in - to deserve such ....woteva - I HATE GOD with these moments..BECAUSE...I know GOD (and I wonder Y it permitted this)
Should you be in prison?

For someone that insists on having no forum engagement with me, you are truly a hypocrite..

*Should I be in prison when 5 men challenge me to a fight and the first one that attempts to, gets rather fucked up :?:
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accelafine
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Re: Can the Religious Be Trusted?

Post by accelafine »

Or you were hallucinating and they were just some random people minding their own business.
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attofishpi
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Re: Can the Religious Be Trusted?

Post by attofishpi »

..fuck off you disrespectful idiot. I ended up on the bitumen, this bloke picked me up and admitted the stupid young "men" were part of his girl friends family/crew


The dude at the Yiros shop called me back into the shop to make me another yiros..with no charge.
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accelafine
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Re: Can the Religious Be Trusted?

Post by accelafine »

Oh dear. Whatever happened to the men in white coats?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:41 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:26 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:40 pm Honestly mate, I came home - got a very sore ankle after feeling the need to throw some idiot in front of a moving truck.. I wonder sometimes, wot world is this life of Brian in - to deserve such ....woteva - I HATE GOD with these moments..BECAUSE...I know GOD (and I wonder Y it permitted this)
Should you be in prison?

For someone that insists on having no forum engagement with me, you are truly a hypocrite..

*Should I be in prison when 5 men challenge me to a fight and the first one that attempts to, gets rather fucked up :?:
These things happen to you quite often don't they? Is it legal to throw somebody in front of a moving truck in Australia just to even up the numbers in a fight?
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attofishpi
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by attofishpi »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:02 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:41 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:26 am
Should you be in prison?

For someone that insists on having no forum engagement with me, you are truly a hypocrite..

*Should I be in prison when 5 men challenge me to a fight and the first one that attempts to, gets rather fucked up :?:
These things happen to you quite often don't they? Is it legal to throw somebody in front of a moving truck in Australia just to even up the numbers in a fight?
Do U honestly think I care about "legalities" when a group of idiots make it clear they are about to beat the shit out of me?

...further to that, YA (after all these years of having the shit kicked out of me by gangs), I don't care if they DIE ..ooonooo is that illegal? :twisted:

FUCK OFF AND MEAT YOUR MAKER :evil:
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Can Atto Be Jailed?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:09 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:02 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:41 am


For someone that insists on having no forum engagement with me, you are truly a hypocrite..

*Should I be in prison when 5 men challenge me to a fight and the first one that attempts to, gets rather fucked up :?:
These things happen to you quite often don't they? Is it legal to throw somebody in front of a moving truck in Australia just to even up the numbers in a fight?
Do U honestly think I care about "legalities" when a group of idiots make it clear they are about to beat the shit out of me?

...further to that, YA (after all these years of having the shit kicked out of me by gangs), I don't care if they DIE ..ooonooo is that illegal? :twisted:

FUCK OFF AND MEAT YOUR MAKER :evil:
So you've just publicly confessed to attempted murder. Maybe you should speak to a lawyer before you make it worse.

You should definitely be locked up both for your own and the public's safety until you respond to anti-psychotic medication and dry out your liver a little. It's obvious that you start the fights in which you also try to kill people.

Don't forget, many of us will have seen your drunken murder confession in that other thread that Rick deleted.
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Re: Can Big Mike Be Trusted?

Post by Belinda »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:09 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:02 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:41 am


For someone that insists on having no forum engagement with me, you are truly a hypocrite..

*Should I be in prison when 5 men challenge me to a fight and the first one that attempts to, gets rather fucked up :?:
These things happen to you quite often don't they? Is it legal to throw somebody in front of a moving truck in Australia just to even up the numbers in a fight?
Do U honestly think I care about "legalities" when a group of idiots make it clear they are about to beat the shit out of me?

...further to that, YA (after all these years of having the shit kicked out of me by gangs), I don't care if they DIE ..ooonooo is that illegal? :twisted:

FUCK OFF AND MEAT YOUR MAKER :evil:
Then you belong in an underclass where revenge is the only means of self defence. Can you not be socially mobile so you can be respectable and beyond the immediate reach of these gangs? Is there any help available such as vocational courses?
Belinda
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Re: Can Atto Be Jailed?

Post by Belinda »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:34 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:09 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:02 am
These things happen to you quite often don't they? Is it legal to throw somebody in front of a moving truck in Australia just to even up the numbers in a fight?
Do U honestly think I care about "legalities" when a group of idiots make it clear they are about to beat the shit out of me?

...further to that, YA (after all these years of having the shit kicked out of me by gangs), I don't care if they DIE ..ooonooo is that illegal? :twisted:

FUCK OFF AND MEAT YOUR MAKER :evil:
So you've just publicly confessed to attempted murder. Maybe you should speak to a lawyer before you make it worse.

You should definitely be locked up both for your own and the public's safety until you respond to anti-psychotic medication and dry out your liver a little. It's obvious that you start the fights in which you also try to kill people.

Don't forget, many of us will have seen your drunken murder confession in that other thread that Rick deleted.
Why is Fish writing messages to a philosophy chat room? Not to practice his keyboard skills! He seeks to find a better way to live. Prison is not helping is it.
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