Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

CIN
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:59 pm
Location: UK

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by CIN »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 2:07 am I just did some basic research on Baptist Church. So, did you opt for the baptism, and if so, at what age?
No, I was never baptised. I don't think I'd thought about it, and in any case it is supposed to be adult baptism, and 14 is hardly adult. After 14 I wouldn't have wanted it anyway.

Your account of your experiences is interesting. The problem with all such experiences, of course, is that they tend only to be convincing to the person who has had them. Unlike the atheists, I wouldn't presume to dismiss your experiences, but because they don't gel with anything in my own life, I'm not in a position to either accept or reject your understanding of them.

I have had odd experiences of my own. In 2006, for about half an hour late one night, I had two selves at the same time instead of the usual one. (I don't recommend it, it's very unpleasant.) I now believe that this was an early sign of the problem that I developed ten years later due to excess caffeine. Caffeine dehydrates me, thickening my blood so that it won't flow easily through the ageing and hardening blood vessels in my brain. In 2016 this manifested in the way I've already mentioned: there wasn't enough blood to go round, so my brain decided to shut down one of its systems, and the one it chose was vision, which is why it kept trying to shut my eyes. This kept happening until I virtually gave up caffeine.

In 2006, I was getting half-formed memories in my head, and when I tried to focus on them, I suddenly found I had two selves. I think my brain was trying to get information from one hemisphere to the other, but the blood wasn't flowing properly in that part of my brain, and when I pushed it, it gave up and cut the link between the hemispheres. Each hemisphere then created its own self. This is just my interpretation of what happened. None of the doctors I consulted ever said anything of the sort. The thing I noticed was that when I told them what had happened to me, they always changed it into something else — something their medical training had prepared them for.

We build our picture of the world based on our experiences. My experience in 2006 has left me with the working hypothesis that the self is purely a creation of the brain, so that when our brains die, we cease to exist. But I'm a good enough philosopher to know that the fact that I personally have never had an experience that I recognise as supernatural doesn't prove that the supernatural doesn't exist.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 13319
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by attofishpi »

Yes, definitely everything is within the matter of the mind. And the mind is part of the quantum universe's reality.

I appreciate people that keep an open mind with what i state. Honestly, if you had experienced everything since 1997 that I experienced, you would have no doubt. In the first month in 1997, there were times I questioned my own reasoning, my analysis and considered I was going crazy. There were times when, I couldn't even talk, I couldn't collate words in my mind - like my mind was frozen in time.
In saying that, all these years later - 2017 when I was working for jap firm NEC - I've known by this stage the capabilities, the power this intelligence that is behind the construct of our REAL IT Y can impel over every synapse within my brain..(via testing that many times over those years)
Anyway, so this particular afternoon GOD/sage started on me. I say GOD/sage because I am not certain what the actual causation is, be it sage via GOD or just GOD willing it.
Sage is a person (lives in California, another story) that is clearly interfaced and has a degree of influence over this intelligence (GOD - as did Christ, as could NE1 if GOD permitted) - SO! Getting back to that afternoon, I am busy doing some work when people in the office are all having a laugh, and I start getting a little distracted. I real eyes things are not natural (again), no matter how much I attempt to work out what their natural conversation is, to see what is funny, the more "their" voices, their verbiage of words are directed at me. So if I think in my head, "it's you fucking with me isn't it?" - -reply to giggles "Yes...yes you're in."...this is annoying PA_annoya (paranoia <-- I'll get to the lan_gauge thing eventually) I say "Fuck off GOD, I need to do my work."
The lettering on my screen as I attempt to read, it starts scrambling to junk as I scan across the words. I can no longer do my job. I start getting really fucking angry. I know I may end up crossing the line with these entities. All this time, everyone around the office is laughing to bullshit (it's not them, in the projection to my perception of reality, it's the GOD system, set to screw with me - for some reason).
I then do cross the line. "Fuck off Christ you disgusting fucking Jew." -- the laughter subsides. I now try to concentrate, the words on the screen are back to normal. My brain is now frozen. I cannot think of the next step in the algorithm of the logic required to move forward in my task at hand, and I know Y. I have crossed the line, disrespected the man himself. The synapses of my brain are in lock down, under the behest of the GOD system.
All I can now do is apologise to have my mind released and hopefully get the task at hand completed. I apologise to Christ. I then get my natural mind back, set to the task I believe now I can process ahead and get this job done on my PC screen. "Do art!" is called out. (this has been called out over the past and more in recent weeks, when walking through the city etc..)
I sit there. Contemplate life and realise I am in a good financial position, I can live without this job. I make the decision to quit - to indeed, do this art project that these entities are insisting upon. (* I know sweet FA about the art world!)

I even did a Richard Gere from the scene in Pretty Woman. I took my shoes and socks off as I walked across the grass in the park and felt the nature upon my souls, woops, soles :wink: Yes, it was a lovely midday afternoon, the Sun was shining and I walked to a small cafe where my niece worked to have lunch with her, and tell her the big news.

So.

Back to me & you, young man and our differences where we were both born into a Christian upbringing in some form or other.

When I was about six, I was playing in the school playground and just before the bell rang to go back to class one of my friends, a black chap called Saxton told me there is no GOD. Somewhere a small conversation had started between us and that's what he insisted. I said "You can't say that!" like, it was naughty or something. He said something to the effect of it's rubbish. Anyway, all the kids started walking back to class and I was rather taken aback. I had never considered this. I walked to the edge of the playground, just a few metres from the concrete train we had been playing on. We had massive sports fields with lush oak trees lining the edges, we were very fortunate. I remember having what I now know was an epiphany. I had the overwhelming feeling that there was something far more than meets the eye to what I was observing. It was like I knew that beneath whatever made the trees and everything I was observing, there was something - obviously I couldn't have the words at that age. But now, in hindsight I know it's that this GOD entity had invoked this epiphany, and (just got tapped on my right knee, lol) - and it was as if I had some comprehension of sub-atomic matter, to within reality. Thus, from that moment I have always had faith in the existence of GOD. The Christ part developed over time, I couldn't find any fault with it.

In contrast, you were quite the opposite I suppose? Could you elaborate on your own reasoning as a young fella as to why you reasoned it was all, I suppose, rather daft..in particular any feelings re Christ?
RostislavVainovich
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:09 pm

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by RostislavVainovich »

The more I read material generated by artificial intelligence, the more I think about its limits. ChatGPT can be very useful in creating a preliminary prompt, consisting of some conventional basics, but the key word is conventional, and ChatGPT cannot think outside the box, so to speak. But then, most real people tend to have that ability trained out of them for many years before they become old enough to study software development at university, and whatever they retain is gone by the time they actually start developing software. In the end, ChatGPT and other artificial intelligence programmes are made to think very conventionally, as in garbage in, garbage out.

If you use software like ChatGBT to answer a question regarding philosophy, you will probably thing of so many questions and counterarguments that, by the time you have trashed ChatGBT's ideas on the subject, you have a fully original essay ready for publication.

So, is ChatGBT worth bothering with? Maybe not if you already know what you want to say and how to articulate it, but some of us need something to start our brains thinking, and that is its only real value, a starting point.
CIN
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:59 pm
Location: UK

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by CIN »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 1:30 am In contrast, you were quite the opposite I suppose? Could you elaborate on your own reasoning as a young fella as to why you reasoned it was all, I suppose, rather daft..in particular any feelings re Christ?
I'm not sure reasoning came into it much at 14. It was mostly just the realisation that I had never actually thought about what I was being taught in church. Once I started to think about it, I realised that I didn't believe it with any conviction. I have never had any particular feelings about Jesus, I mostly thought about God. I have at times been very angry with God for one reason or another, which of course is ridiculous in an agnostic, but I can't get rid of him altogether. You can take the man out of the church, but you can never entirely take the church out of the man.

These days I'm agnostic because the questions I have about Christianity seem to have no answers. For example:
- if God created the universe, how did he do it?
- how is it possible for one being to have three persons?
- how can the death of someone, even a god, take away sin?
And so on. I am incapable of believing in something unless I know that someone, somewhere, knows how it works. (This is why I don't believe in free will.) It doesn't have to be me, but it has to be someone.

If I had experiences like yours, it would no doubt jolt me out of my agnostic complacency. But it has never happened.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 13319
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by attofishpi »

- sorry I screwed an edit copy and lost the original text from our conversation. - (but using "submit") :mrgreen:
Last edited by attofishpi on Fri Dec 20, 2024 9:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
Impenitent
Posts: 5774
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by Impenitent »

"how is it possible for one being to have three persons?"

I'd say we have many more than three...

are you who you were at age 2?

at age 13?

at age 20?

ect...

-Imp
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:21 pm Hey, RE the thread title: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?
I'll let you know in a month or two as I attempt to use it to assist with developing chapter one of Alpha Two into a VR movie! - it appears to think it is capable :D
You should ask AI on whether your merely first-person-experiences of God [provide AI with your list of experience and inferences] is a valid to justify God exists as real?
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 13319
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:10 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:21 pm Hey, RE the thread title: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?
I'll let you know in a month or two as I attempt to use it to assist with developing chapter one of Alpha Two into a VR movie! - it appears to think it is capable :D
You should ask AI on whether your merely first-person-experiences of God [provide AI with your list of experience and inferences] is a valid to justify God exists as real?
ChatGPT, indeed, all large language models are dumb, they don't think...Y are you still not grasping that?

However, if someone (yes a human or group of humans) out there on the internet had debated my experiences accounted for above, and come to some conclusions, then the "AI" would provide those conclusions (AS IF IT WAS THE AIs OWN REASONING!!)
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:33 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:10 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:21 pm Hey, RE the thread title: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?
I'll let you know in a month or two as I attempt to use it to assist with developing chapter one of Alpha Two into a VR movie! - it appears to think it is capable :D
You should ask AI on whether your merely first-person-experiences of God [provide AI with your list of experience and inferences] is a valid to justify God exists as real?
ChatGPT, indeed, all large language models are dumb, they don't think...Y are you still not grasping that?

However, if someone (yes a human or group of humans) out there on the internet had debated my experiences accounted for above, and come to some conclusions, then the "AI" would provide those conclusions (AS IF IT WAS THE AIs OWN REASONING!!)
AI is rather intelligent and rational.
The majority of what is discussed in the internet claimed God exists but note AI gave a very balanced view.
VA to ChatGpt wrote:Does God exist as real?
ChatGPT said:
The question of whether God exists as real depends on
how one defines "God,"
the concept of "existence," and
the framework within which the question is considered.
Below are perspectives from different philosophical and theological traditions:

1. Theistic Realism
View: God exists as a real, mind-independent being who is the creator and sustainer of the universe.
Support: Arguments like the Cosmological Argument, Ontological Argument, Teleological Argument, and Moral Argument.
Challenges: Critics argue these proofs rely on assumptions that are not universally accepted, such as causality beyond space and time.
2. Philosophical Naturalism (Atheism)
View: God does not exist as a real entity. Existence is confined to the natural world, which can be explained without invoking a deity.
Support: Evidence-based reasoning, Occam's Razor, and the problem of evil are often cited to refute God's existence.
Challenges: Critics argue naturalism cannot fully address metaphysical questions, such as why the universe exists at all.
3. Agnosticism
View: The existence of God is unknown or unknowable.
Support: Lack of definitive evidence for or against God's existence.
Challenges: Agnosticism might be seen as a non-committal position that lacks explanatory power.
4. Philosophical Idealism and Anti-Realism
View: The existence of God may not be mind-independent but could be a regulative idea or a concept arising from human cognition.
Support: Kant viewed God as a "regulative idea" useful for moral reasoning but not necessarily real in a metaphysical sense.
Challenges: This perspective does not satisfy those seeking a concrete or absolute understanding of God.
5. Theological Non-Realism
View: God exists symbolically or metaphorically, reflecting human ideals, values, or the depth of being, rather than as an external reality.
Support: Thinkers like Paul Tillich argue that God is the "ground of being" rather than a being among others.
Challenges: Critics argue this concept of God is too abstract to align with traditional theism.
6. Kantian Perspective (Related to User's Interests)
According to Kant, God is not something that can be proven to exist empirically or metaphysically. Instead, the concept of God serves a practical purpose, particularly in moral reasoning.
In this sense, God's "existence" may be regulative rather than constitutive, shaping how humans act and think about morality without requiring empirical proof of God's reality.
From a philosophical anti-realist perspective (aligned with some of your interests):

The existence of God as a "mind-independent reality" might be considered an unfounded or dogmatic claim. Instead, God could be understood as a useful construct within specific frameworks, such as moral or existential ones.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 13319
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by attofishpi »

Look, I am not interested in debating GOD with a fervent ATHEIST nor a STUPID MACHINE being used by an ATHEIST!!!
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:44 am Look, I am not interested in debating GOD with a fervent ATHEIST nor a STUPID MACHINE being used by an ATHEIST!!!
The above point was to counter your discrediting of AI:

"However, if someone (yes a human or group of humans) out there on the internet had debated my experiences accounted for above, and come to some conclusions, then the "AI" would provide those conclusions (AS IF IT WAS THE AIs OWN REASONING!!)"

The response by AI to my question proved otherwise.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 13319
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:02 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:44 am Look, I am not interested in debating GOD with a fervent ATHEIST nor a STUPID MACHINE being used by an ATHEIST!!!
The above point was to counter your discrediting of AI:

"However, if someone (yes a human or group of humans) out there on the internet had debated my experiences accounted for above, and come to some conclusions, then the "AI" would provide those conclusions (AS IF IT WAS THE AIs OWN REASONING!!)"

The response by AI to my question proved otherwise.
No it didn't. All the AI did there was collate information from its repository of information FFS. Maybe once you understand how AI tech works, you might refrain from relying on it to do your thinking. (*everyone else on the forum knows it and keeps telling you to stop)
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:20 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:02 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:44 am Look, I am not interested in debating GOD with a fervent ATHEIST nor a STUPID MACHINE being used by an ATHEIST!!!
The above point was to counter your discrediting of AI:

"However, if someone (yes a human or group of humans) out there on the internet had debated my experiences accounted for above, and come to some conclusions, then the "AI" would provide those conclusions (AS IF IT WAS THE AIs OWN REASONING!!)"

The response by AI to my question proved otherwise.
No it didn't. All the AI did there was collate information from its repository of information FFS. Maybe once you understand how AI tech works, you might refrain from relying on it to do your thinking. (*everyone else on the forum knows it and keeps telling you to stop)
It is the same with humans most of the time where they gather information from various sources and present them as they are.
While AI do not present their 'opinions' and 'belief' AI do make rational inferences from a combination of various sources.

I believe it is stupid not to rely on AI as far as possible and top it off with our own intelligent thinking.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 13319
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:27 am It is the same with humans most of the time where they gather information from various sources and present them as they are.
Yes, the AI does presentation of man's knowledge very often, in ways that we also can define, it's very good for that.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:While AI do not present their 'opinions' and 'belief' AI do make rational inferences from a combination of various sources.
Whatever you are deeming as 'rational' is inherent of probability based on the AI sourcing information. AI does NOT think.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:I believe it is stupid not to rely on AI as far as possible and top it off with our own intelligent thinking.
I know it is stupid for using AI for reasons that are beyond what are within its capabilities. U R clearly relying on IT in such a way.

Sure, use AI to collate information you need in a way that you can self reason with, and come to draw your own conclusions.

BUT, do not expect AI has any intelligence, that it can be given anything as a fresh input, such as a question pertaining to something that it has not built a repository data structure upon via man's knowledge, and expect it to provide a new, a fresh perspective.

FFS

btw. ChatGPT is assisting me very nicely with Unreal Engine 5 to create chapter one as VR movie (proof of concept)
..is it intelligent, no it's not - it just has sourced its info base on UE5 in a fantastic manner that I can MINE :twisted:
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Is ChatGPT worth bothering with?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:52 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:27 am It is the same with humans most of the time where they gather information from various sources and present them as they are.
Yes, the AI does presentation of man's knowledge very often, in ways that we also can define, it's very good for that.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:While AI do not present their 'opinions' and 'belief' AI do make rational inferences from a combination of various sources.
Whatever you are deeming as 'rational' is inherent of probability based on the AI sourcing information. AI does NOT think.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:I believe it is stupid not to rely on AI as far as possible and top it off with our own intelligent thinking.
I know it is stupid for using AI for reasons that are beyond what are within its capabilities. U R clearly relying on IT in such a way.

Sure, use AI to collate information you need in a way that you can self reason with, and come to draw your own conclusions.

BUT, do not expect AI has any intelligence, that it can be given anything as a fresh input, such as a question pertaining to something that it has not built a repository data structure upon via man's knowledge, and expect it to provide a new, a fresh perspective.

FFS

btw. ChatGPT is assisting me very nicely with Unreal Engine 5 to create chapter one as VR movie (proof of concept)
..is it intelligent, no it's not - it just has sourced its info base on UE5 in a fantastic manner that I can MINE :twisted:
If AI can beat the best chess grandmaster there is, isn't that some sort of high intelligence.
In addition, AI has beaten the best 'Go' [the most complex game] grandmaster as well.
In addition, AI has also contributed to win the Nobel Prize in Chemistry and Physics i.e. that is a recognition of some sort of personal entity and intelligence.

Point is you don't to have the ability to squeeze out whatever ounce of intelligence AI is capable of?

What is your definition of intelligence?
intelligent: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
Btw, intelligence in general, i.e. IQ is merely measuring logic and use of languages.
AI can do the above very well.

At some point you should exploit AI to generate choices based on knowledge it has for you to choose and you can even ask AI to give the best choice for your consideration.
Post Reply