A Better Democrat Party

[Immanuel Can]

Well, that is the topic.

Yes, that is the title of the thread. However the real topic would involve a careful definition of what, in fact, is good for the nation and the people of that nation.

Well, some may wish that had been the topic, perhaps; but it isn't. And they're always free to start another thread, of course, but I'd prefer to keep this one on track. There seems to me to be much good in avoiding the complaining about the winners or the general snark against politics, in this case, and just focusing on helping the party that's failing to reverse its disaster and have a better future...democracy itself, it seems to me, has an interest in the two-or-more party system's retention.

In the late 50s and early 60s one would have to take stock of a process of radicalization.

I'd suggest that was already the middle of the "radicalization" process. Perhaps it was the first time the "radicalization" was general; but it certainly was later than the start of the radical Left in the US. For that, I suggest, we'd have to go back to the interwar period and things like the Frankfurt School.

In any case, that's a critique of the past. "A better DP," if such can be had, would be a future project, not something we can get merely by complaining about the past and its failures. Once we identify those failures, we have an implication about what might make for a better future, though.

At this point I am not at all sure if the Rebublican régime ...

We're not concerned with them here. As the incumbents, they may not even need a change in their platform, for all we know, since the public seems to have at least tentatively approved their offerings by electing them. In any case, theirs is a platform which is yet to be actualized, so is impossible to critique now. It's fruitless to bother complaining about that based on nothing more than prognostication.

If it seems worthwhile to you, then that, as I would suggest, is for a different thread. Here, I'm only interested in what's useful for the Democrat Party to do.

[Immanuel Can]

That being said, my question would be this: What learnings do the Democrats need to take from this past election, in order to make their party more viable in the future?

Apparently, it would be to deny climate change is happening, oppose mandatory vaccinations, ban abortion, increase the nuclear weapons stockpile, support Israel in the annihilation of Gaza, build a wall and deport illegal immigrants.

\_('_')_/

Well, this is the sort of old-school propaganda that failed the DP so badly in the last election. Instead of just regurgitating it, Gary, why not actually make a suggestion potentially helpful to the DP?

[Alexis Jacobi]

IC: Threads, conversations, perspectives, exchanges — these always flow organically and it never works to attempt to control what happens.

Keep on pursuing what your interest is. Mine is adjacent, not altogether separate, but different.

[Alexis Jacobi]

As the incumbents, they may not even need a change in their platform, for all we know, since the public seems to have at least tentatively approved their offerings by electing them. In any case, theirs is a platform which is yet to be actualized, so is impossible to critique now. It's fruitless to bother complaining about that based on nothing more than prognostication.

Complaining is one thing, a peculiar mood. Or a non-helpful habit. A waste of energy.

Observation, understanding rational speculation, and the use of a pessimistic historical perspective in an examination of what is taking form now — this is different from “complaining”.

[Immanuel Can]

IC: Threads, conversations, perspectives, exchanges — these always flow organically and it never works to attempt to control what happens.

I'm not controlling it. I'm just pointing out what's relevant to the topic. And I'm returning to the thing I think is worth discussing, as opposed to the things that are really irrelevant.

To carp about either party is just too easy. It's being done right now on thousands or millions of sites. One can exhaust all desire to do so on any of them -- you won't run out.

But so far as I can tell, this is one of the few (if not the only) threads in which something more productive is being aimed at. We're considering the betterment of the losing party, rather than jumping on their grave or snarking about the winner.

Keep on pursuing what your interest is.

Thank you, but I was going to do that anyway.

Mine is adjacent, not altogether separate, but different.

Then I hope you find a place for it, and somebody willing to engage you on that topic. But this is not the place, and I am not your person for that.

[Immanuel Can]

As the incumbents, they may not even need a change in their platform, for all we know, since the public seems to have at least tentatively approved their offerings by electing them. In any case, theirs is a platform which is yet to be actualized, so is impossible to critique now. It's fruitless to bother complaining about that based on nothing more than prognostication.

Complaining is one thing, a peculiar mood. Or a non-helpful habit. A waste of energy.

Precisely my point.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Then I hope you find a place for it, and somebody willing to engage you on that topic. But this is not the place, and I am not your person for that.

Both of us have arrived at this understanding. Stating it is not necessary. Consider it an established fact ... and move on.

[Alexis Jacobi]

As the incumbents, they may not even need a change in their platform, for all we know, since the public seems to have at least tentatively approved their offerings by electing them. In any case, theirs is a platform which is yet to be actualized, so is impossible to critique now. It's fruitless to bother complaining about that based on nothing more than prognostication.

Complaining is one thing, a peculiar mood. Or a non-helpful habit. A waste of energy.

Precisely my point.

You forgot this part:

Observation, understanding rational speculation, and the use of a pessimistic historical perspective in an examination of what is taking form now — this is different from “complaining”.

[Immanuel Can]

Complaining is one thing, a peculiar mood. Or a non-helpful habit. A waste of energy.

Precisely my point.

You forgot this part:

Observation, understanding rational speculation, and the use of a pessimistic historical perspective in an examination of what is taking form now — this is different from “complaining”.

Not "forgot." Didn't find it worth comment. The past is the past. You're not going to fix it by complaining, or "pessimism," or "speculation," whether "rational" or not.

[Immanuel Can]

Then I hope you find a place for it, and somebody willing to engage you on that topic. But this is not the place, and I am not your person for that.

Consider it an established fact.

I do.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Not "forgot." Didn't find it worth comment. The past is the past. You're not going to fix it by complaining, or "pessimism," or "speculation," whether "rational" or not.

Of course, IC. Your motivations are understood!

Nothing I write about has to do with fixing the past, and everything to do with the present and the future — what is coming our way and will soon be upon us.

[Immanuel Can]

Not "forgot." Didn't find it worth comment. The past is the past. You're not going to fix it by complaining, or "pessimism," or "speculation," whether "rational" or not.

Of course, IC. Your motivations are understood!

Not relevant. The topic is the DP, and how for them to go forward. You seem to have forgotten it's not about me...or you.

[Walker]

It's come to the point where the Democrat Party must rise from the ashes.

For that, it must first burn to the ground. Fire purifies and the level of corruption in The Party runs too deep for Band-Aids, stitches, and excessive amputation.

Apparently that's near the top of the president-elect's to-do list, seeing as how he has promised to unleash Musk and Ramaswami on The D.C. Swamp that is The Party's nest, if the Republican Senate agrees and if not he can just follow the precedent set by the Democrats Obama and Biden (although he may not), and dictate that it be done and let the aftermath get legally sorted out in some future context.

This is why a nation needs to trust in the executive decision making of the executive branch that We The People elected. Washington is riddled with those who oppose the agenda of the new executive branch*, who are likely all the Democrats who undermined and sabotaged the last Republican executive branch, so de gotta go, deyo!


* Kamalala got something like 94% of the DC vote.

[Gary Childress]

That being said, my question would be this: What learnings do the Democrats need to take from this past election, in order to make their party more viable in the future?

Apparently, it would be to deny climate change is happening, oppose mandatory vaccinations, ban abortion, increase the nuclear weapons stockpile, support Israel in the annihilation of Gaza, build a wall and deport illegal immigrants.

\_('_')_/

Well, this is the sort of old-school propaganda that failed the DP so badly in the last election. Instead of just regurgitating it, Gary, why not actually make a suggestion potentially helpful to the DP?

Those are supposedly items on Trump's platform that got him elected.

[Immanuel Can]

Apparently, it would be to deny climate change is happening, oppose mandatory vaccinations, ban abortion, increase the nuclear weapons stockpile, support Israel in the annihilation of Gaza, build a wall and deport illegal immigrants.

\_('_')_/

Well, this is the sort of old-school propaganda that failed the DP so badly in the last election. Instead of just regurgitating it, Gary, why not actually make a suggestion potentially helpful to the DP?

Those are supposedly items on Trump's platform that got him elected.

Only "supposed" in Dem propaganda. It hasn't happened, it probably never will, and of the things listed, only "build the wall and deport illegals" was really in the Repub. platform. Getting rid of forced innoculations will probably happen. The rest never had any truth to it at all.

But it doesn't matter. We're not talking about them, but about what the Dems can do. And frankly, Gary, I'm a little surprised you'd rather carp about the winners than help your own side recover. That's a bit mystifying, I must say. Perhaps you don't have much faith in the future of the DP...