The Democrat Party Hates America

[BigMike]

I appreciate your perspective on the importance of honesty, openness, and a genuine desire to improve. You’re right that addressing the core issues—dishonesty, fear of judgment, and deeply ingrained behaviors—could help us move toward a healthier society. However, from my point of view, these behaviors and motivations are themselves the result of prior conditioning, social environments, and external influences. What you describe as “taking responsibility” or “admitting wrongdoing” is, in this framework, simply one more result of the influences that shaped us—environment, upbringing, culture, and even genetics.

It could very well be that in the past we did evil things due to ignorance or even necessity (maybe? not so sure), however, we ought to know better now and there is no excuse to keep doing evil.

Gary, I see where you’re coming from with the idea that we should "know better" now. From this perspective, it seems natural to think that with increased understanding, there should be less excuse for harmful actions. But even as we gain knowledge, the way we act is still heavily shaped by the same kind of external influences—cultural norms, systemic incentives, personal conditioning—that led to harmful actions in the past.

When we look closely, we see that even now, people’s choices aren’t independent or made in a vacuum. They’re based on how individuals have been shaped by the systems they live in, the experiences they’ve had, and the neural patterns that formed from these experiences. These influences are so deeply embedded that, while people may intellectually recognize that certain actions are harmful, they might still feel compelled by unconscious drives or systemic pressures to act otherwise.

So, the focus then becomes: if we want people to consistently “do better,” we need to create environments that support those better actions. This doesn’t let anyone “off the hook” for harmful behavior; it simply means we’re better equipped to prevent it by addressing the factors that shape it in the first place. It’s a shift from asking people to resist bad influences to creating conditions that reinforce positive behaviors.

[Alexiev]

I see where you’re coming from, and I get that this all might sound like it’s complicating something fairly straightforward. Let me clarify a few things:

When I say that prior influences make a choice “less free,” I’m not implying that influenced choices are meaningless or without agency. My argument here is that if every choice stems from prior causes, then "free" in the absolute sense—entirely uninfluenced by anything—is just not possible. Our brains are constantly shaped by biology, past experiences, and social context, and these elements set up the "conditions" under which we make decisions. So, while choices feel “free” because we’re not conscious of all the influences at work, they’re still the product of a chain of prior events.

Now, to your point about a slave: I completely agree that “freedom” has a practical, real-world dimension in terms of what choices are available. The freedom we talk about in society—freedom from oppression, from harm, or from manipulation—is indeed crucial and deeply significant. But philosophically, even choices within the broadest social freedom are still shaped by our past conditioning and biological drives. This isn’t about diminishing legal and moral distinctions but rather understanding that all choices, whether constrained by external factors like slavery or made in total social freedom, are still shaped by causes beyond our conscious control.

As for understanding human behavior, yes, people have always looked to understand motives and influences. What’s different here is that by examining these root causes through a scientific and empirical lens, we’re not just speculating—we’re looking at tangible evidence from fields like neuroscience and psychology. It’s not about knowing the answer to every individual choice but understanding the larger patterns. We can’t capture everything about human nature, but we can get closer to understanding why we make certain choices, which in turn can help us design systems that minimize harm and promote well-being.

The "tangible evidence" will probably rediscover what is already obvious; children grow up speaking the language of their parents and society, for example. Surprise, surprise! Does this mean they are not "free" to learn another language? Of course not.

In addition, you seem to think "scientific knowledge" is the best kind. But is it? As Whitman pointed out, science tends to look for things that can be added, divided, and measured. Not only does that create a limiting paradigm, but I could also point out that the math upon which science depends is not "scientific". It is purely logical.

Good luck. But your basic notion is that people have reasons for choosing to do what they do. Who could doubt it? Yes, our decisions result from physical processes in our brains. So what? How does that improve our understanding of human behavior?

[BigMike]

The "tangible evidence" will probably rediscover what is already obvious; children grow up speaking the language of their parents and society, for example. Surprise, surprise! Does this mean they are not "free" to learn another language? Of course not.

In addition, you seem to think "scientific knowledge" is the best kind. But is it? As Whitman pointed out, science tends to look for things that can be added, divided, and measured. Not only does that create a limiting paradigm, but I could also point out that the math upon which science depends is not "scientific". It is purely logical.

Good luck. But your basic notion is that people have reasons for choosing to do what they do. Who could doubt it? Yes, our decisions result from physical processes in our brains. So what? How does that improve our understanding of human behavior?

I appreciate the points you’re raising, and I think they highlight some key distinctions between scientific and philosophical approaches to questions of freedom and choice. Here’s where I’m coming from:

I agree that people can learn new languages or pick up new skills—there’s flexibility in human behavior. But I would argue that even those new choices are shaped by previous conditions and experiences, making absolute “freedom” an illusion. If someone grows up in an English-speaking household, for example, that environment has a long-lasting influence. When they learn another language later on, it’s not in total freedom but within the framework of prior neural connections and linguistic predispositions shaped by early exposure.

You’re right—science doesn’t have a monopoly on understanding. Art, literature, and philosophy all offer invaluable insights into human nature. What’s unique about scientific knowledge, though, is that it provides testable, empirical methods that can help us observe and understand cause and effect in human behavior. While philosophy and art explore the why in broader, interpretive ways, science digs into the how by looking at observable mechanisms. They’re complementary, each adding a different dimension to our understanding.

Examining the brain’s physical processes—like how neurons fire or how memories form—deepens our understanding of what drives behavior. This knowledge helps us see, for instance, how early experiences might affect a person’s decision-making or how stress might impact impulse control. By understanding these mechanisms, we’re better equipped to address societal issues and support well-being through informed policies, whether in education, mental health, or criminal justice. It’s not about reducing people to biology; it’s about recognizing that understanding these influences can empower us to create conditions that help people thrive.

Ultimately, my perspective isn’t about negating the subjective experience of freedom but about adding a scientific layer to understand its boundaries and influences. This approach doesn’t undermine our appreciation for human complexity—it gives us more tools to grasp it.

[Age]

Here are my responses to each of your questions:

Do I believe my own views and express what I believe is true?
Yes, my views align with what I believe is true because they are a product of previous influences and experiences, not “purely independent” choices. I don’t believe in absolute, independent agency because I think all thoughts are shaped by prior conditioning, and that conditioning can only direct us toward what we’ve already experienced or learned. So yes, my beliefs reflect what I understand from my background, but I also acknowledge that they could evolve as new experiences and influences shape my thinking.

Does my thinking need improvement?
Absolutely. Given that none of us has had a “perfect” upbringing, all human thinking can improve. Our perspectives are shaped by the information we’ve been exposed to and the mental pathways that have formed as a result. If there are gaps or misunderstandings in my beliefs, they can be adjusted if new insights come along that strengthen the neural pathways between related brain centers.

What does a “purely free choice” mean, and why do I use the word “freely”?
By “purely free choice,” I mean a choice made without any external or internal constraints—an action that originates entirely from within, uninfluenced by prior causes. I use “freely” here to clarify that I don’t believe such independence exists. Our choices are always influenced by prior experiences, biology, and social conditioning. We can’t think of something that doesn’t occur to us, and it won’t occur to us if the connections in our brain aren’t already there or aren’t strong enough due to previous influences.

Does change only happen when conditions change?
Change is constant, yes. But specific types of change—like social or behavioral shifts—depend on certain conditions aligning, such as social awareness or cultural movements. When the conditions are right, changes in individual or collective behavior are more likely to occur. For instance, during major social movements, conditions reach a tipping point that leads to large-scale behavioral change.

Will I explain what I mean by “right environmental triggers”?
Certainly. “Right environmental triggers” refer to conditions that catalyze change, like economic shifts, technological advancements, or social movements that challenge the status quo. These triggers arise from prior decisions and events. For example, economic hardship can lead to movements for social reform because people’s discontent and awareness build up to a point where they collectively seek change.

Why do I say “shift” rather than “choose”?
I use “shift” to describe the process of change driven by influences, rather than implying that individuals independently “choose” to alter their behavior. Shifts happen as a natural consequence of existing pressures and conditions. When I say “shift,” I mean the outcome of conditions reaching a threshold that pushes change forward, not an isolated decision made from personal willpower.

Do I mean that people are passive in this process?
No. People are part of the process, influenced by and contributing to conditions around them. But even actions that seem deliberate are shaped by prior causes. In other words, we’re “active” participants, but our actions result from factors already in place, not from an independent, “free” will. As conditions shift, behaviors shift as well—through a process, not through isolated acts of free choice.

How do I define “free will”?
In this context, free will means the ability to act without any constraints from prior causes—making choices independent of past conditioning, biology, or environment. I don’t believe this kind of independence exists because all actions and thoughts stem from prior influences and brain processes. Our “choices” are expressions of those influences.

Do I believe it’s possible to speed up the process of societal change?
Yes, by creating environments that encourage certain behaviors (like honesty, responsibility, and empathy), we can help facilitate change in behavior on a larger scale. The more we understand the root causes of behavior, the more we can adjust conditions to promote desirable behaviors. Societal change is a gradual, condition-driven process, and while we can influence it, we can’t jump-start it in the way we might with a truly independent choice.

Is my focus on debating “no free will” rather than finding the fundamental cause of behavior?
The argument against free will isn’t meant to deny human agency altogether but to show that agency itself is shaped by external influences. The goal isn’t to dismiss our actions but to understand that, without the influence of these causes, certain behaviors wouldn’t arise. When we address these causes—rooted in social, economic, and psychological factors—we can work toward reducing harmful behaviors more effectively than by focusing on individual willpower alone.

And it is responses like these here which is, exactly, WHY human beings, back in the days when this was being written, took so very long to catch up. These responses SHOW and PROVE WHY 'the process' took so long

Have you noticed that you spend more time 'trying to' argue/fight for what you, 'currently', believe is true, while 'trying to' argue/fight against what is an actual impossibility anyway?

And, have you noticed that you, like every other adult human being in the days this is being written, who can communicate, does this also?

Instead of just focusing in finding and locating the 'root causes' to all of 'your issues and problems', you adult human beings much prefer to argue and fight for what you 'currently' presume and/or believe is true, rather than just uncovering the very things that are stopping and preventing you all from making 'the change', which all of you Truly want, and desire, anyway.

Instead of you adult human beings just 'choosing to make the change', which ALL children deserve, you adult human beings would prefer to argue, fight, and even KILL each other over nothing more than just your own unsubstantiated thoughts and 'beliefs', themselves.

Find 'the cause/s' of 'this very unhealthy and ill world', then you will have 'the solution/s' and 'formula/s' to making and creating a 'much better and healthier world', for every one, and especially for 'you adult human being's children's.

Located and find the 'root cause', and then you will, once and for ALL, have 'the remedy' to stop and prevent 'the sickness' from ever ever returning.

[Age]

What does a “purely free choice” mean, and why do I use the word “freely”?
By “purely free choice,” I mean a choice made without any external or internal constraints—an action that originates entirely from within, uninfluenced by prior causes. I use “freely” here to clarify that I don’t believe such independence exists. Our choices are always influenced by prior experiences, biology, and social conditioning. We can’t think of something that doesn’t occur to us, and it won’t occur to us if the connections in our brain aren’t already there or aren’t strong enough due to previous influences.

Of course all our decisions are influenced by our education and experiences. So what? What else could influence them? Why this makes them less "free" is a mystery.


[

b]How do I define “free will”?[/b]
In this context, free will means the ability to act without any constraints from prior causes—making choices independent of past conditioning, biology, or environment. I don’t believe this kind of independence exists because all actions and thoughts stem from prior influences and brain processes. Our “choices” are expressions of those influences.

Of course our choices are influenced by our personalities, our educations, and our experiences. Why does that make them less "free"? By your reasoning the choices of a slave - who will be whipped or hanged if he makes certain choices - are equally "free" with yours and mine. Not only does this defy the normal definition of "freedom", but it eliminates vital moral and legal distinctions.


[

b]Is my focus on debating “no free will” rather than finding the fundamental cause of behavior?[/b]
The argument against free will isn’t meant to deny human agency altogether but to show that agency itself is shaped by external influences. The goal isn’t to dismiss our actions but to understand that, without the influence of these causes, certain behaviors wouldn’t arise. When we address these causes—rooted in social, economic, and psychological factors—we can work toward reducing harmful behaviors more effectively than by focusing on individual willpower alone.

Is this supposed to be a unique or unusual approach? People have always tried to figure out what makes other people do what they do. Unfortunately, it's not easy. Economics, for example, has traditionally been based on the principle of rationality. Modern economists accept that this approach is often wrong. If we pluck a flower out of the crannies, and understand it, root and all, we would (per Tennyson) know what God and man is (in the poem, "man is" rhymes with "crannies"). But we can't.

Figuring out what makes 'others' do what they do is fully understood when one, also, figures out WHY they do every thing that they do. (Which, by the way, was a Truly simple and easy thing to work out, and comprehend and understand fully).

Once this was done, then just working out HOW to get 'others' to want to listen, and learn, how they can also achieve 'this understanding', as well, was all that was needed.

[Age]

I appreciate your perspective on the importance of honesty, openness, and a genuine desire to improve. You’re right that addressing the core issues—dishonesty, fear of judgment, and deeply ingrained behaviors—could help us move toward a healthier society. However, from my point of view, these behaviors and motivations are themselves the result of prior conditioning, social environments, and external influences. What you describe as “taking responsibility” or “admitting wrongdoing” is, in this framework, simply one more result of the influences that shaped us—environment, upbringing, culture, and even genetics.

It could very well be that in the past we did evil things due to ignorance or even necessity (maybe? not so sure), however, we ought to know better now and there is no excuse to keep doing evil.

But, just like 'the people', before you, in the days when this is being written, could not be held accountable for what they were Truly ignorant of, so to neither can you adult human beings here be held accountable for what you have also not yet learned, and understood.

There is also NEVER EVER an 'excuse' for doing Wrong. But, there are reasons WHY ALL of you are, still, doing Wrong

Find those reasons, and causes, then only then you can make 'the changes', for the better.

But, if it is always 'the others' who do 'the wrong', then it will be 'you' WHO NEVER makes 'the change/s' NEEDED here.

But, just like those of 'long gone' were to fearful to be totally open and honest, because of judgment and punishment, so to are you adult human beings in the days this is being written are way to fearful of being Truly opens and honest because of the fear of being punished, and/or judged, by 'others', and even by "your" own 'selves'. Which is just another consequence of being brought up and raised in a Wrongly and I'll and unhealthy formed society.

[BigMike]

And it is responses like these here which is, exactly, WHY human beings, back in the days when this was being written, took so very long to catch up. These responses SHOW and PROVE WHY 'the process' took so long

Have you noticed that you spend more time 'trying to' argue/fight for what you, 'currently', believe is true, while 'trying to' argue/fight against what is an actual impossibility anyway?

And, have you noticed that you, like every other adult human being in the days this is being written, who can communicate, does this also?

Instead of just focusing in finding and locating the 'root causes' to all of 'your issues and problems', you adult human beings much prefer to argue and fight for what you 'currently' presume and/or believe is true, rather than just uncovering the very things that are stopping and preventing you all from making 'the change', which all of you Truly want, and desire, anyway.

Instead of you adult human beings just 'choosing to make the change', which ALL children deserve, you adult human beings would prefer to argue, fight, and even KILL each other over nothing more than just your own unsubstantiated thoughts and 'beliefs', themselves.

Find 'the cause/s' of 'this very unhealthy and ill world', then you will have 'the solution/s' and 'formula/s' to making and creating a 'much better and healthier world', for every one, and especially for 'you adult human being's children's.

Located and find the 'root cause', and then you will, once and for ALL, have 'the remedy' to stop and prevent 'the sickness' from ever ever returning.

I understand the frustration with how deeply people hold onto their beliefs and how difficult it can be to make substantial changes in behavior and perspective. You’re pointing out a critical problem: people often focus on defending their current beliefs instead of questioning them and addressing the underlying causes of societal issues.

On Arguing vs. Solving Problems
I see your point about how much energy we invest in defending our beliefs. It’s common because we’re wired to protect the views we’ve developed based on our experiences and conditioning. However, in order to solve societal issues, we need to shift focus from defending personal beliefs to investigating the roots of our behaviors and their larger impacts.

The Need for Radical Honesty and Inquiry
A healthier society would indeed benefit from people openly examining and admitting the root causes of behaviors—our fears, biases, and learned behaviors. But this kind of honesty isn’t easy when society conditions us to avoid vulnerability and admit mistakes. The real challenge lies in creating an environment that allows for this openness without fear of judgment or punishment.

Finding Root Causes
You’re absolutely right that to create a genuinely healthier world, we must locate and understand the root causes of harmful behaviors. This means investigating not only individual influences but also the structures that shape and reinforce these behaviors. These structures, shaped by past generations, are deeply ingrained, making change slow and difficult.

The Path Forward
Changing these deeply rooted structures requires that we start with small but cumulative shifts in cultural and social norms—teaching the next generation the value of critical thinking, compassion, and cooperation. The challenge is immense, and it may feel like we’re moving slowly, but as we continue to peel back the layers of conditioning, we gradually lay the foundation for a society more focused on truth, empathy, and responsibility.

Would you agree that building this environment starts with fostering openness and empathy within the structures we currently have? Or do you see a different starting point?

[Age]

What does a “purely free choice” mean, and why do I use the word “freely”?
By “purely free choice,” I mean a choice made without any external or internal constraints—an action that originates entirely from within, uninfluenced by prior causes. I use “freely” here to clarify that I don’t believe such independence exists. Our choices are always influenced by prior experiences, biology, and social conditioning. We can’t think of something that doesn’t occur to us, and it won’t occur to us if the connections in our brain aren’t already there or aren’t strong enough due to previous influences.

Of course all our decisions are influenced by our education and experiences. So what? What else could influence them? Why this makes them less "free" is a mystery.


[

b]How do I define “free will”?[/b]
In this context, free will means the ability to act without any constraints from prior causes—making choices independent of past conditioning, biology, or environment. I don’t believe this kind of independence exists because all actions and thoughts stem from prior influences and brain processes. Our “choices” are expressions of those influences.

Of course our choices are influenced by our personalities, our educations, and our experiences. Why does that make them less "free"? By your reasoning the choices of a slave - who will be whipped or hanged if he makes certain choices - are equally "free" with yours and mine. Not only does this defy the normal definition of "freedom", but it eliminates vital moral and legal distinctions.


[

b]Is my focus on debating “no free will” rather than finding the fundamental cause of behavior?[/b]
The argument against free will isn’t meant to deny human agency altogether but to show that agency itself is shaped by external influences. The goal isn’t to dismiss our actions but to understand that, without the influence of these causes, certain behaviors wouldn’t arise. When we address these causes—rooted in social, economic, and psychological factors—we can work toward reducing harmful behaviors more effectively than by focusing on individual willpower alone.

Is this supposed to be a unique or unusual approach? People have always tried to figure out what makes other people do what they do. Unfortunately, it's not easy. Economics, for example, has traditionally been based on the principle of rationality. Modern economists accept that this approach is often wrong. If we pluck a flower out of the crannies, and understand it, root and all, we would (per Tennyson) know what God and man is (in the poem, "man is" rhymes with "crannies"). But we can't.

I see where you’re coming from, and I get that this all might sound like it’s complicating something fairly straightforward. Let me clarify a few things:

When I say that prior influences make a choice “less free,” I’m not implying that influenced choices are meaningless or without agency. My argument here is that if every choice stems from prior causes, then "free" in the absolute sense—entirely uninfluenced by anything—is just not possible.

So, what you are, essentially, trying to argue and fight for here is;

What is impossible to exist, does not exist

Which, I think you will find, EVERY one here agrees with and accepts anyway.

By the way, when the words 'free will' just refer to, 'The ability to choose', only, then 'free will' exists. And, absolutely 'freely' I will add.

Our brains are constantly shaped by biology, past experiences, and social context, and these elements set up the "conditions" under which we make decisions.

I think EVERY one agrees with and accepts this also.

By the way, even the very Wrong and Incorrect terminology, "our brains", is just another example of just how much the thinking, from the human brain, is influenced by the society and/or the environment around it

So, while choices feel “free” because we’re not conscious of all the influences at work, they’re still the product of a chain of prior events.

Again, when the words 'free will' are 'looked at' and used in the context of, 'The ability to choose', only, then you human beings are ABSOLUTELY 'free'.

you all, after all, do have 'the ability to choose', correct?

Now, to your point about a slave: I completely agree that “freedom” has a practical, real-world dimension in terms of what choices are available. The freedom we talk about in society—freedom from oppression, from harm, or from manipulation—is indeed crucial and deeply significant. But philosophically, even choices within the broadest social freedom are still shaped by our past conditioning and biological drives.[/quote]

Will you provide a list of those, if any, who disagree with this or who are trying to argue against this with you?

So then 'we' can move on past this.

This isn’t about diminishing legal and moral distinctions but rather understanding that all choices, whether constrained by external factors like slavery or made in total social freedom, are still shaped by causes beyond our conscious control.

Even the one you are responding to here has ALREADY acknowledged that it AGREES with this. So, why do you go on like there is someone here not accepting this?

As for understanding human behavior, yes, people have always looked to understand motives and influences. What’s different here is that by examining these root causes through a scientific and empirical lens, we’re not just speculating—we’re looking at tangible evidence from fields like neuroscience and psychology. It’s not about knowing the answer to every individual choice but understanding the larger patterns. We can’t capture everything about human nature, [/quote]

Her, AGAIN, 'we' have another prime example of just how much thoughts and beliefs have been influenced by 'past experiences'. And, it does not matter how False, or Wrong, the belief or presumption is, like the one just presented, as long as 'it' aligns with the 'current' knowledge,.of 'the time', the False, and/or Wrong, knowledge will keep being presented as though it is true, and right

I just refer to this type of thinking as APE-thinking. That is; Assumptions made on Past Experiences, alone

but we can get closer to understanding why we make certain choices, which in turn can help us design systems that minimize harm and promote well-being.

If I am not mistaken, ALL choices are made on what one 'wants' or desires.

And, ALL 'wants' are dependent upon, or are formed by, Past Experiences.

But, when ALL choices are made up on what one 'needs', of which there are only about four, firstly or only, then creating 'the world' in which EVERY one originally 'wanted', and desired, to live in can begin, then, and only then, the Past Experiences of children's lives will lead them into creating only 'that system's, only, which 'we' ALL wanted to brought up and raised up in, anyway.

[Age]

I appreciate your perspective on the importance of honesty, openness, and a genuine desire to improve. You’re right that addressing the core issues—dishonesty, fear of judgment, and deeply ingrained behaviors—could help us move toward a healthier society. However, from my point of view, these behaviors and motivations are themselves the result of prior conditioning, social environments, and external influences. What you describe as “taking responsibility” or “admitting wrongdoing” is, in this framework, simply one more result of the influences that shaped us—environment, upbringing, culture, and even genetics.

It could very well be that in the past we did evil things due to ignorance or even necessity (maybe? not so sure), however, we ought to know better now and there is no excuse to keep doing evil.

Gary, I see where you’re coming from with the idea that we should "know better" now. From this perspective, it seems natural to think that with increased understanding, there should be less excuse for harmful actions. But even as we gain knowledge, the way we act is still heavily shaped by the same kind of external influences—cultural norms, systemic incentives, personal conditioning—that led to harmful actions in the past.

What will come to be known by you human beings, as well, is that you do 'know' better, already. Unfortunately though it is, still, just in the 'unconsciously known' stage, to just about all of you human beings, when this being written.

But like all things evolution is taking care of this.

When we look closely, we see that even now, people’s choices aren’t independent or made in a vacuum. They’re based on how individuals have been shaped by the systems they live in, the experiences they’ve had, and the neural patterns that formed from these experiences.

And, obviously because none of you have lived in a Truly peaceful and harmonious world' none of you have 'experienced' this do you do not yet, consciously, know how to live nor create 'this world'. Although, and again, deep-down you all do unconsciously know how to.

As will comes-to-light and be revealed to you all, soon enough.

These influences are so deeply embedded that, while people may intellectually recognize that certain actions are harmful, they might still feel compelled by unconscious drives or systemic pressures to act otherwise.

Again, this is just the consequence of what happens and occurs when being indoctrinated into the cult/ure' that you all have been.

And as ALL within a 'cult' cannot 'see' that they are, neither have you adult human beings FULLY SEEN just how much you have been influenced and indoctrinated into 'a world', which is dominated by greed, selfishness, and of the 'love-of-money'.

All of which is Truly TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and even TOTALLY UNWANTED at birth

So, the focus then becomes: if we want people to consistently “do better,” we need to create environments that support those better actions.

How many times are you going to state, 'the obvious', and harp on about the SAME thing?

This doesn’t let anyone “off the hook” for harmful behavior; it simply means we’re better equipped to prevent it by addressing the factors that shape it in the first place. It’s a shift from asking people to resist bad influences to creating conditions that reinforce positive behaviors.

So, why do you not just, freely, choose to do what just creates better conditions for future children to learn etter behaviors, and 'grow' from?

Or, in other words, WHY do you, freely, choose to just keep doing what is Wrong, in Life, which obviously are creating worse conditions, which influence and create worse and Wrong behaviour in others?

[Age]

The "tangible evidence" will probably rediscover what is already obvious; children grow up speaking the language of their parents and society, for example. Surprise, surprise! Does this mean they are not "free" to learn another language? Of course not.

In addition, you seem to think "scientific knowledge" is the best kind. But is it? As Whitman pointed out, science tends to look for things that can be added, divided, and measured. Not only does that create a limiting paradigm, but I could also point out that the math upon which science depends is not "scientific". It is purely logical.

Good luck. But your basic notion is that people have reasons for choosing to do what they do. Who could doubt it? Yes, our decisions result from physical processes in our brains. So what? How does that improve our understanding of human behavior?

I appreciate the points you’re raising, and I think they highlight some key distinctions between scientific and philosophical approaches to questions of freedom and choice. Here’s where I’m coming from:

I agree that people can learn new languages or pick up new skills—there’s flexibility in human behavior. But I would argue that even those new choices are shaped by previous conditions and experiences, making absolute “freedom” an illusion.

Is there any thing 'limiting' you from just 'making choices'?

If yes, then what is it/are they, exactly?

If someone grows up in an English-speaking household, for example, that environment has a long-lasting influence. When they learn another language later on, it’s not in total freedom but within the framework of prior neural connections and linguistic predispositions shaped by early exposure.

The phrase and term 'neural connections' is bandied around like it actually means some thing. Now, is absolutely ANY one would like to have a discussion about this, then I am more than willing, and ready, to.

Also, what, exactly, were your past experiences, which has led you to an apparent overwhelming desire to get the message across that past experiences always have an influence on what you 'currently' think and do?

I do not think that there is a human being who disagrees with this, yet here you are continually repeating the same message over and over.

You’re right—science doesn’t have a monopoly on understanding. Art, literature, and philosophy all offer invaluable insights into human nature.

The only thing that is chuman nature's is your insatiable desire to learn more, and anew, and your ability to learn, understand, and reason absolutely any and every thing. No other known animal nor thing, to you human beings, in the whole of the Universe has this ability and this curiosity other than you human beings

I suggest just harnessing, and using, what is chuman nature's very wisely.

What’s unique about scientific knowledge, though, is that it provides testable, empirical methods that can help us observe and understand cause and effect in human behavior. While philosophy and art explore the why in broader, interpretive ways, science digs into the how by looking at observable mechanisms.

But, only with the HOW and the WHY can the 'cause' be then prevented.

They’re complementary, each adding a different dimension to our understanding.

Examining the brain’s physical processes—like how neurons fire or how memories form—deepens our understanding of what drives behavior.

The very thing that you human beings have been MISSING here is, literally, the very thing that needs to be STUDIED, which it never really has been.

Examining or studying brains and their physical processes of neuron firing and/or connecting has never ever led you human beings to even behaving better, let alone Right, and Correctly

This knowledge helps us see, for instance, how early experiences might affect a person’s decision-making or how stress might impact impulse control. By understanding these mechanisms, we’re better equipped to address societal issues and support well-being through informed policies, whether in education, mental health, or criminal justice.

But, as long as you human beings are, still, unable to consciously express what is actually Right, and Wrong, in Life, learning what 'might' make life better for you human beings and others is just a complete and utter waste I time

It’s not about reducing people to biology; it’s about recognizing that understanding these influences can empower us to create conditions that help people thrive.

Will you provide any examples at all of ANY conditions that need to be created, which in turn will help you to make better choices, in Life, more wuickly?

Ultimately, my perspective isn’t about negating the subjective experience of freedom but about adding a scientific layer to understand its boundaries and influences. This approach doesn’t undermine our appreciation for human complexity—it gives us more tools to grasp it.

But there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 'complex' about 'you human beings', nor about 'Life', Itself, neither.

[Age]

And it is responses like these here which is, exactly, WHY human beings, back in the days when this was being written, took so very long to catch up. These responses SHOW and PROVE WHY 'the process' took so long

Have you noticed that you spend more time 'trying to' argue/fight for what you, 'currently', believe is true, while 'trying to' argue/fight against what is an actual impossibility anyway?

And, have you noticed that you, like every other adult human being in the days this is being written, who can communicate, does this also?

Instead of just focusing in finding and locating the 'root causes' to all of 'your issues and problems', you adult human beings much prefer to argue and fight for what you 'currently' presume and/or believe is true, rather than just uncovering the very things that are stopping and preventing you all from making 'the change', which all of you Truly want, and desire, anyway.

Instead of you adult human beings just 'choosing to make the change', which ALL children deserve, you adult human beings would prefer to argue, fight, and even KILL each other over nothing more than just your own unsubstantiated thoughts and 'beliefs', themselves.

Find 'the cause/s' of 'this very unhealthy and ill world', then you will have 'the solution/s' and 'formula/s' to making and creating a 'much better and healthier world', for every one, and especially for 'you adult human being's children's.

Located and find the 'root cause', and then you will, once and for ALL, have 'the remedy' to stop and prevent 'the sickness' from ever ever returning.

I understand the frustration with how deeply people hold onto their beliefs and how difficult it can be to make substantial changes in behavior and perspective. You’re pointing out a critical problem: people often focus on defending their current beliefs instead of questioning them and addressing the underlying causes of societal issues.

you speak and write here as though only 'others' often do this, and that you do not.

So, the frustration continues.

On Arguing vs. Solving Problems
I see your point about how much energy we invest in defending our beliefs. It’s common because we’re wired to protect the views we’ve developed based on our experiences and conditioning.

Once more you do NOT 'need to' AT ALL. Although you obviously 'want to'.

Which, again, is because if your past experiences. But, once again, this is 'a reason', and NEVER 'an excuses'. As, again, there is NEVER EVER 'an excuse' for doing what is Wrong, in Life

However, in order to solve societal issues, we need to shift focus from defending personal beliefs to investigating the roots of our behaviors and their larger impacts.

Exactly what I was more or less saying. But, 'blaming' any one thing for what you do, or do not do, except for 'self', as an adult human being, of course, is NOT the Right thing to do, in Life

The Need for Radical Honesty and Inquiry
A healthier society would indeed benefit from people openly examining and admitting the root causes of behaviors—our fears, biases, and learned behaviors.

you, REALLY ARE, making this much, much slower than is necessary.

1. Every society just becomes naturally healthier if, and when, the adult human beings are being open and honest while seeking to change, for the better..

2. The 'root cause' for WHY all of you human beings 'are the way you all are', 'think the way that you all do', and 'behave the way you all do' is BECAUSE of past events, which are always pre-determining 'the future'.

Now, is there absolutely ANY one who just cannot admit 'the root cause', here?

If yes, then why can you not just admit this?

But this kind of honesty isn’t easy when society conditions us to avoid vulnerability and admit mistakes.

Once again, what can be seen here is another example of another adult human being 'trying to' 'blame' what human beings, alone, do in something else.

'Society', itself, is not some separate entity that can do any thing. 'Society' is solely because of and due to adult human beings, only.

Si, if 'society' is 'conditioning' you human beings to act or misbehave in Wrong ways, then this is, solely, because of what adult human beings have already created and/or are doing.

The real challenge lies in creating an environment that allows for this openness without fear of judgment or punishment.

But this is not a 'challenge' at all.

Once you adult human beings learn WHY you Wrongly and unnecessarily judge and punish each other and the 'root cause' of WHY you do it, then you will know HOW to STOP doing it, and HOW to PREVENT "yourselves" from EVER doing it, again

Finding Root Causes
You’re absolutely right that to create a genuinely healthier world, we must locate and understand the root causes of harmful behaviors.

And, obviously you can only fix 'a problem' after you firstly admit you have one. Just like you can only find the 'root cause' of your Wrong, abusive, and harmful behaviors' only after you firstly admit that you do Wrong, abusive, and harmful behaviors'.

This means investigating not only individual influences but also the structures that shape and reinforce these behaviors.

There is absolutely nothing hard nor complex here.

1. The reason you do absolutely every thing you do, Right or Wrong, is because of the 'thought', itself

2. The reason you choose what you do is because that is what you 'want'.

3. The choices you make is because of, or due to, 'past experiences'.

Now, you are absolutely free to make 'a choice', however, and obviously, what you are able to choose from is limited by your own 'past experiences'.

So, if you have not yet experienced what it is like living in 'a Truly peaceful and harmonious world', for example, then you cannot be expected to, yet, know how to live 'hat way', and you cannot be justly nor legitimately 'judged' and 'punished' for not doing what it takes to help to create and make 'that world/society'.

If you adult human beings just stopped judging and punishing "others/yourselves", then you can begin uncovering 'root causes', and then working together in preventing what is causing 'the Truly sick and unhealthy world' that you are all living in, and which was, and still is, when this is being written, being created, solely, by you adult human beings alone.

These structures, shaped by past generations, are deeply ingrained, making change slow and difficult.

1. Once again you are 'trying to' 'blame' others here.

2. Changing, for the better, is exponentially millions of times faster than how long it took to get to, when this was being written. This is mostly just because human beings are, finally, heading in the Right direction, and towards the EXACT SAME goal, and in and towards the complete opposite direction.

3. There is absolutely nothing hard, complex, nor difficult here in fact creating and making a Truly loving, peaceful, and peaceful world, for every one, as One, is about one of the most simplest and easiest things to do, as well as being one of the most natural things to do also.

The Path Forward
Changing these deeply rooted structures requires that we start with small but cumulative shifts in cultural and social norms—teaching the next generation the value of critical thinking, compassion, and cooperation.

When, and if, you adult human beings learn and start practising and being critical thinkers, compassionate, and working in cooperation towards the exact same goal/s, the children will just copy and follow these things, NATURALLY. But, obviously while you adults continue to do the opposite, then children will, still, keep just, NATURALLY, copying and following those Wrong behaviours.

So, once again, when, and if, you adult human beings start accepting and start taken actual responsibility, then children will grow up copying and following those Truly Right, and good, behaviors.

The challenge is immense, and it may feel like we’re moving slowly, but as we continue to peel back the layers of conditioning, we gradually lay the foundation for a society more focused on truth, empathy, and responsibility.

It is as simple and easy as absolutely EVERY individual does absolutely EVERY thing that they do because tof their own personal and individual different past experiences. And, if absolutely ANY of you had the EXACT SAME past experiences as another, then you would be doing EXACTLY what 'the other' has done and is doing doing.

Knowing, and comprehending, fully, this IRREFUTABLE Fact means that you WILL STOP 'judging' and 'punishing' others for absolutely ANY that they do. And, after obtaining and gaining the full 'understanding' of this irrefutable Fact you will also obtain and gain the full and True 'forgiveness' for absolutely EVERY thing that EVERY one has done, and will do.

For how could any one Truly 'forgive' another if they had not yet come to understand and realise the very reason WHY they have done what they have or WHY they will do what they do.

Would you agree that building this environment starts with fostering openness and empathy within the structures we currently have?

What are the 'structures', exactly, which you are alluding to here?

And, people have empathy for 'living things', structures and/or buildings are not usually considered 'living things' worthy of having 'empathy' for, now with

Or do you see a different starting point?

Since 'the environment' being talked about and discussed here is created, and built fully, by you adult human beings, ALONE, this then means, absolutely, that the 'starting point' starts with you adult beings, ALONE. And, this starts 'individually' because one can only, really, Truly work on "them" 'self', ONLY.

No one can make another learn, nor change, if they do not 'want' to.

So, the "starting point' is with you individual adult human beings.

When, and if, any one of i you seriously 'Wants' to change, for the better, and is really Honest and Open about, then besides just discovering WHO 'you' Truly are 'you' will also learn HOW to make and create 'the world' that absolutely EVERY one 'wants' to live in, and desires.

[BigMike]

...lots of questions...

Here's my condensed answer in one sentence:

I believe that every thought, feeling, and action is entirely determined by the current physical and electrochemical state of the brain—shaped by past experiences, genetic factors, and the constant flow of sensory inputs, hormonal signals, and environmental influences—all of which are embedded as structural changes in the brain's neuronal networks through processes like synaptic strengthening, formation of new connections, and modulation of neurotransmitter release, each operating fully and without exception under the laws of physics.

In this view, learning and memory are hardwired into the brain as physical modifications to its structure. When we learn something, our brain cells (neurons) form new connections or strengthen existing ones through processes such as long-term potentiation. This involves changes at the synapses—where neurons communicate—that make it easier for them to send signals to one another in the future. Over time, these repeated patterns create durable pathways that store information as long-term memory, leaving lasting physical changes in the brain’s network, effectively encoding our experiences as a result of prior influences.

[Age]

...lots of questions...

Here's my condensed answer in one sentence:

I believe that every thought, feeling, and action is entirely determined by the current physical and electrochemical state of the brain—shaped by past experiences, genetic factors, and the constant flow of sensory inputs, hormonal signals, and environmental influences—all of which are embedded as structural changes in the brain's neuronal networks through processes like synaptic strengthening, formation of new connections, and modulation of neurotransmitter release, each operating fully and without exception under the laws of physics.

In this view, learning and memory are hardwired into the brain as physical modifications to its structure. When we learn something, our brain cells (neurons) form new connections or strengthen existing ones through processes such as long-term potentiation.

Just because you have 'heard' this, before, does not make it true.

Have you observed/experienced the actual PROOF, which backs up and supports this claim, absolutely?

This involves changes at the synapses—where neurons communicate—that make it easier for them to send signals to one another in the future. Over time, these repeated patterns create durable pathways that store information as long-term memory, leaving lasting physical changes in the brain’s network, effectively encoding our experiences as a result of prior influences.

So what?

This is just a view, of 'yours', which is within that body, solely because of what that body has previously experienced.

Until you present actual proof for you claim/s here, then all you are essentially doing is just re-repeating what you have previously heard, and/or read, and then just presenting it as though it is actually true.

Which is, more or less, exactly what those of religious faith do, on both the theological and scientific "side" if the spectrum.

[BigMike]

...lots of questions...

Here's my condensed answer in one sentence:

I believe that every thought, feeling, and action is entirely determined by the current physical and electrochemical state of the brain—shaped by past experiences, genetic factors, and the constant flow of sensory inputs, hormonal signals, and environmental influences—all of which are embedded as structural changes in the brain's neuronal networks through processes like synaptic strengthening, formation of new connections, and modulation of neurotransmitter release, each operating fully and without exception under the laws of physics.

In this view, learning and memory are hardwired into the brain as physical modifications to its structure. When we learn something, our brain cells (neurons) form new connections or strengthen existing ones through processes such as long-term potentiation.

Just because you have 'heard' this, before, does not make it true.

Have you observed/experienced the actual PROOF, which backs up and supports this claim, absolutely?

This involves changes at the synapses—where neurons communicate—that make it easier for them to send signals to one another in the future. Over time, these repeated patterns create durable pathways that store information as long-term memory, leaving lasting physical changes in the brain’s network, effectively encoding our experiences as a result of prior influences.

So what?

This is just a view, of 'yours', which is within that body, solely because of what that body has previously experienced.

Until you present actual proof for you claim/s here, then all you are essentially doing is just re-repeating what you have previously heard, and/or read, and then just presenting it as though it is actually true.

Which is, more or less, exactly what those of religious faith do, on both the theological and scientific "side" if the spectrum.

Age, I hear you questioning the basis of my understanding here, but I’d like to get a clearer picture of your perspective. Could you specify which part of the explanation you’re challenging? Are you skeptical about the brain’s role in encoding experiences through physical changes, or is it the deterministic view that follows from this understanding? Or perhaps it’s something else entirely? By pinpointing the specifics of what you disagree with, we can focus on the exact areas where our perspectives differ. I’m genuinely interested in understanding your stance more fully.

[Age]

Here's my condensed answer in one sentence:

In this view, learning and memory are hardwired into the brain as physical modifications to its structure. When we learn something, our brain cells (neurons) form new connections or strengthen existing ones through processes such as long-term potentiation.

Just because you have 'heard' this, before, does not make it true.

Have you observed/experienced the actual PROOF, which backs up and supports this claim, absolutely?

This involves changes at the synapses—where neurons communicate—that make it easier for them to send signals to one another in the future. Over time, these repeated patterns create durable pathways that store information as long-term memory, leaving lasting physical changes in the brain’s network, effectively encoding our experiences as a result of prior influences.

So what?

This is just a view, of 'yours', which is within that body, solely because of what that body has previously experienced.

Until you present actual proof for you claim/s here, then all you are essentially doing is just re-repeating what you have previously heard, and/or read, and then just presenting it as though it is actually true.

Which is, more or less, exactly what those of religious faith do, on both the theological and scientific "side" if the spectrum.

Age, I hear you questioning the basis of my understanding here, but I’d like to get a clearer picture of your perspective. Could you specify which part of the explanation you’re challenging? Are you skeptical about the brain’s role in encoding experiences through physical changes, or is it the deterministic view that follows from this understanding? Or perhaps it’s something else entirely? By pinpointing the specifics of what you disagree with, we can focus on the exact areas where our perspectives differ. I’m genuinely interested in understanding your stance more fully.

I do not have a 'stance'.

If I recall correctly, in this thread, you were questioning or challenging others to seek out and find the 'root cause' for WHY you human beings think and/or do what you all think and do.

Now, just so you are aware the 'root cause' is ALREADY KNOWN.