nihilism

[Alexis Jacobi]

A couple of initial observations

Israeli society is fractured. There are social and internal political conflicts so wide, so deep, that before 10-7 the nation was in a state verging on extreme civil conflict. Few in America (and Europe I suspect) have much insight into these conflicts.

One faction within Israel is committed, absolutely, to total domination and control of the entire territory that is pictured in the present Israel map. (And some propose a far greater expansion). The Palestinian population, roughly equal in size, must be displaced, disposed of, or somehow dominated and rendered passive. It is in that that the genocidal will — a necessity — resides. How it flares up and to what degree, that is really the issue.

That absolutely intolerant internal faction has indicated that its object is the eventual destruction of the Al Aqsa mosque. This is the position of radical Zionism. It is expressed, diagrammed, discussed and planned.

The Al Aqsa Flood attack — note the title — was a violent counter-expression against this zealotry. Logically, its violence inspired the so-called genocidal Israeli retaliation which all see.

What has happened recently has set the stage for a crisis unprecedented in Israeli history. The binding ties that held Israel together are fraying. It has too many enemies and cannot, over time, resist them. It cannot carry on the struggle without the backing of the US and thus Israel’s war, and existential struggle, becomes America’s. If America pulls away, Israel’s situation becomes untenable. Many commentators note this and point out that none of this bodes well for Israel.

Seen in this light, the establishment of Israel has not boded well for anyone — and not for world Jewry. The act of establishing Israel opens a wound that, by maintaining it, only increases the scale of the wound. Obviously, there is no solution.

The religious zealots suppose that what is now developing is the fulfillment of ancient prophecy. Literally, God must manifest in the form of a National Savior. If you listen to the rabbis and the zealots (of these views) you will gain insight into the irrational, zealotry-driven mindset that is the backdrop but also the fundamental underpinning of the Zionist motivation and ideal.

[Alexis Jacobi]

There is another — interesting but distressing — thing to point out. If, as Albert Cohen said, that “The Jews are an idea made flesh”, that central and consistent idea is the Ideal of social justice. You know, let justice flow like a river:

Amos 5:21-24 (in a very modern interpretive translation):

“I can’t stand your religious meetings. I’m fed up with your conferences and conventions. I want nothing to do with your religion projects, your pretentious slogans and goals. I’m sick of your fund-raising schemes, your public relations and image making. I’ve had all I can take of your noisy ego-music. When was the last time you sang to me? Do you know what I want? I want justice—oceans of it. I want fairness—rivers of it. That’s what I want. That’s all I want.

There you have it: the incarnated, incarnating Ideal. According to Waldo Frank it is that which identifies Jewishness.

Now, what actually happened in the recent conquest of Palestine, was brought about in direct violation of the aforementioned Idea. And now — again for all to see — it reveals itself as a genocidal project.

There is a horrific irony in this! The meaning? The very God of the core Jewish ideal cannot appear tomorrow to save Israel but to chastise it!

I mean, if you follow the basic historic-narrative logic of the meaning of the Jew.

Now, what does this really mean within the context of our present?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Waldo Frank, obviously a radical, wrote the following in 1933:

The revolutionary proletariat, in revolt against the Church of his exploiters which was frequently his landlord, always his enemy, could not trouble about God. There were good functional reasons for the atheism of most Marxists. The word “God”had been monopolized too long by the apologists of the class of exploitation: theologians, philosophers, poets! To detach (as Spinoza did) the reality in God from all the accumulated lies, is a problem that calls for subtlety beyond the present anguished state of the masses; for energy that the masses and their immediate leaders cannot spare from the day's struggle. It is unhistorical to expect the active revolutionist of our time to do more than reject the false “God” of the churches and the synagogues. Yet the true experience of God must not die even in the heat of revolutionary battle. The first Marxist ends cannot be won, and man be raised from animal penury and fear into the human stage of security and peace, unless the individual finds life good: and this can be only through the pervading sense of God. The experience of the divine in mortal life must be preserved. Wherefore, there is need today of a people, scattered through the nations, that know and nurture the experience of God. By the tradition of ages, by their ancient prophets and their modern thinkers, the Jews have inherited the challenge and the right to be such a people.

[Immanuel Can]

Now, what actually happened in the recent conquest of Palestine, was brought about in direct violation of the aforementioned Idea. And now — again for all to see — it reveals itself as a genocidal project.

I've got a question for you.

The Palestinians who invaded Israel on Oct. 7th.

They knew they would lose to the IDF. They couldn't NOT know that. Israel is a superpower, and Gaza is decidedly not. They knew that Gaza was not going to conquer Israel.

They knew they were going to rape women, murder old people, stuff babies into ovens, burn homes, throw grenades into shelters...all of that. They knew. They also knew exactly how absolutely horrific all of that was going to be, and how it would look to the Western press. Again, they couldn't possibly not know.

And just in case the IDF was indisposed to come after them, they took hostages...hostages they would hold, torture, rape and refuse to return, no matter what the IDF might do. They could not NOT know that the IDF would have to invade Gaza. They couldn't NOT know there would be Palestinian civilian casualties -- in fact, they'd lined up all their terrorist sites and tunnels precisely so that would happen...that kindergartens, schools, hospitals and even mosques would be bombed. They knew.

They knew they were going to keep shooting rockets. They knew they were not going to stop, and that they had massive stockpiles of them. They knew that most would prove ineffective, because of Iron Dome; but they also knew that it would keep the Israelis having to come after them. And they refused even to engage in a temporary ceasfire, though they knew it would keep the war hot.

They knew the Egyptians were not going to let Gazans escape. And when their own civilians tried to flee the fighting, they accused them of being traitors and shot some of them, to intimidate them into staying put and dying.

All this they knew before they started.

Here's my question: how did they know they could absolutely count on the Western press and Western academia to back their play, no matter what they had done and no matter what they caused?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Actually, what interests me this morning (I’ve been reading Waldo Frank who is on the mark and off the mark in so much) is the image, or the ideal, and the fact of that Incarnated Idea (essential Jewishness) that he believes defines “true Judaism” and a true Jewish spirit.

I have always thought that Bob Dylan carried this “spirit”.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The Palestinians who invaded Israel on Oct. 7th.

It is interesting to note that your fundamental error is here! Those Palestinians did not invade Israel, they burst out of the prison into which they had been herded and attacked settlers who occupied their former land.

Trippy, isn’t it? Clarifying the basic facts.

Start to see the truth, IC, then you can begin to tell the truth.

[Immanuel Can]

The Palestinians who invaded Israel on Oct. 7th.

It is interesting to note that your fundamental error is here!

Don't nitpick. You're dodging. Anybody can see that.

Answer the question: how did they know?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Because they all read The 12-Week Email Course!

[Immanuel Can]

Because they all read The 12-Week Email Course!

Ridicule is also not an answer.

Answer the question.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Will you subscribe to The Course?

[Immanuel Can]

Will you subscribe to The Course?

Evasion.

You know the question is right. You know it's very revealing. But you don't want to answer it.

Interesting.

[Belinda]

There is another — interesting but distressing — thing to point out. If, as Albert Cohen said, that “The Jews are an idea made flesh”, that central and consistent idea is the Ideal of social justice. You know, let justice flow like a river:

Amos 5:21-24 (in a very modern interpretive translation):

“I can’t stand your religious meetings. I’m fed up with your conferences and conventions. I want nothing to do with your religion projects, your pretentious slogans and goals. I’m sick of your fund-raising schemes, your public relations and image making. I’ve had all I can take of your noisy ego-music. When was the last time you sang to me? Do you know what I want? I want justice—oceans of it. I want fairness—rivers of it. That’s what I want. That’s all I want.

There you have it: the incarnated, incarnating Ideal. According to Waldo Frank it is that which identifies Jewishness.

Now, what actually happened in the recent conquest of Palestine, was brought about in direct violation of the aforementioned Idea. And now — again for all to see — it reveals itself as a genocidal project.

There is a horrific irony in this! The meaning? The very God of the core Jewish ideal cannot appear tomorrow to save Israel but to chastise it!

I mean, if you follow the basic historic-narrative logic of the meaning of the Jew.

Now, what does this really mean within the context of our present?

I don't know what you mean by "interpretative". Your 'quotation' from Amos is , in line with the later Isaiah, that justice is based in good intentions ; justice is not the stuff of "religious meetings" and so forth. Jesus carried on from Amos and other prophets "Shall a barren tree bear good fruit".
As Jesus made plain, God , the God of justice, loves the least of beings (such as a sparrow) , and how much more would he love one unique child in agonising pain or one helpless hospital patient.
Teresa of Avila (1515–1582). Christ Has No Body. Christ has no body but yours, No hands, no feet on earth but yours, Yours are the eyes with which he looks.
What is the feeling among Christian Israelis? And the feeling of Christian Palestinians? What is the relationship between those and the Holy See?

Zionism is quite aptly caught within your translation of Amos as one of the "pretentious slogans and goals".

[Alexis Jacobi]

Interesting.

Talk more of this.

[Immanuel Can]

Interesting.

Talk more of this.

Answer the question.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Yours is a chemically-pure example of a rhetorical question!

Please, as the spokesman of Jesus the Lord on this forum, just go ahead and answer it.

All this they knew before they started.

Here's my question: how did they know they could absolutely count on the Western press and Western academia to back their play, no matter what they had done and no matter what they caused?

You’ve perked my curiosity: How did they know?!?