Free will, freedom from what?

[Immanuel Can]

I imagine we're all going to oblivion. That would make more rational sense since there is probably no way the pious of any single one of the world's religions could get along amicably in an afterlife with the pious of any other's.

And how about the pious Atheists and agnostics, so religious in their antipathy to God, and so devout in their refusal to know? They're not a notoriously tolerant bunch, particularly the former, since they've killed more people than all religions combined, by orders of magnitude. If there's a place for them, do you think it will be heaven?

They'd maybe best pray for oblivion. They've a lot to answer for.

We agnostics have no more to answer for than you do.

We've all got a lot to answer for, Gary...and we'll all answer, too...one way or the other.

[Gary Childress]

And how about the pious Atheists and agnostics, so religious in their antipathy to God, and so devout in their refusal to know? They're not a notoriously tolerant bunch, particularly the former, since they've killed more people than all religions combined, by orders of magnitude. If there's a place for them, do you think it will be heaven?

They'd maybe best pray for oblivion. They've a lot to answer for.

We agnostics have no more to answer for than you do.

We've all got a lot to answer for, Gary...and we'll all answer, too...one way or the other.

How do you know?

What would be an example of something you and I have to "answer for"?

[Fairy]

Let me know when you start.

Let me know when you’ve had the last word.

About...now.

Did now ever start? Or does now start and end with a word ?

[Immanuel Can]

We agnostics have no more to answer for than you do.

We've all got a lot to answer for, Gary...and we'll all answer, too...one way or the other.

How do you know?

What would be an example of something you and I have to "answer for"?

I don't think you actually have a problem imagining that, Gary. In times past, you've expressed quite a bit of regret for some decisions you and others have taken...let's just put it mildly, like that. And I have my own failings, of course. But if we forget or deny that, we aren't exonerated by our own estimates, either. The final Judge does not make mistakes; and He says, "...all have sinned..." (Rm. 3). And that's how we know.

[Belinda]

We've all got a lot to answer for, Gary...and we'll all answer, too...one way or the other.

How do you know?

What would be an example of something you and I have to "answer for"?

I don't think you actually have a problem imagining that, Gary. In times past, you've expressed quite a bit of regret for some decisions you and others have taken...let's just put it mildly, like that. And I have my own failings, of course. But if we forget or deny that, we aren't exonerated by our own estimates, either. The final Judge does not make mistakes; and He says, "...all have sinned..." (Rm. 3). And that's how we know.

If God knows everything about everyone then God absolutely knows all the extenuating circumstances too.

[Immanuel Can]

How do you know?

What would be an example of something you and I have to "answer for"?

I don't think you actually have a problem imagining that, Gary. In times past, you've expressed quite a bit of regret for some decisions you and others have taken...let's just put it mildly, like that. And I have my own failings, of course. But if we forget or deny that, we aren't exonerated by our own estimates, either. The final Judge does not make mistakes; and He says, "...all have sinned..." (Rm. 3). And that's how we know.

If God knows everything about everyone then God absolutely knows all the extenuating circumstances too.

Precisely so. And we do not. So whose estimate matters?

[Belinda]

I don't think you actually have a problem imagining that, Gary. In times past, you've expressed quite a bit of regret for some decisions you and others have taken...let's just put it mildly, like that. And I have my own failings, of course. But if we forget or deny that, we aren't exonerated by our own estimates, either. The final Judge does not make mistakes; and He says, "...all have sinned..." (Rm. 3). And that's how we know.

If God knows everything about everyone then God absolutely knows all the extenuating circumstances too.

Precisely so. And we do not. So whose estimate matters?

We and our judicial systems should aim to be merciful like God. More to the practical point, punishments should be for reforming wrong doers, not inflicting suffering on them.

[Immanuel Can]

If God knows everything about everyone then God absolutely knows all the extenuating circumstances too.

Precisely so. And we do not. So whose estimate matters?

We and our judicial systems should aim to be merciful like God.

Yes. And also just, like God. Would that were what we were!

More to the practical point, punishments should be for reforming wrong doers, not inflicting suffering on them.

That depends. Punishment has more than one goal: one is sometimes reform, if the offender is willing to be corrected. Some are not. Another goal is justice. And that justice shall be served, whether for reform or redress, is the ultimate goal of all judgment.

[Fairy]

Punishment has more than one goal: one is sometimes reform, if the offender is willing to be corrected. Some are not. Another goal is justice. And that justice shall be served, whether for reform or redress, is the ultimate goal of all judgment.

Then thank God for all the sperms that got away, and are never to be judged for all eternity.

And just exactly why does God only allow one or two or even three sperms out of billions, to experience life on earth, doesn't that make God a serial killer of all the one's that got away. What about those sperms who will never ever know in zillions of eternities what it would have been like to have been born, but were denied and never given the chance to live. Why was that, were they being punished, or were they not the chosen ones by their creator God. Are only the chosen ones allowed to be born.

[Gary Childress]

We've all got a lot to answer for, Gary...and we'll all answer, too...one way or the other.

How do you know?

What would be an example of something you and I have to "answer for"?

I don't think you actually have a problem imagining that, Gary. In times past, you've expressed quite a bit of regret for some decisions you and others have taken...let's just put it mildly, like that. And I have my own failings, of course. But if we forget or deny that, we aren't exonerated by our own estimates, either. The final Judge does not make mistakes; and He says, "...all have sinned..." (Rm. 3). And that's how we know.

Pretty much the worst I've done is hurt some people's feelings. People have hurt my feelings. I got over it, I'm sure they have too. I wish I could be perfect and never hurt anyone's feelings but that doesn't seem possible in a world of differences and competing interests. What does God want from us, perfection? Perfection would require us all to be Gods. Obviously we aren't. (At least I'm not).

Does God ever judge himself? Or is there a God above God who would judge God for all the Earthquakes, floods and everything?

[Immanuel Can]

Then thank ...born.

Too silly a question for any serious answer.

[Immanuel Can]

Pretty much the worst I've done is hurt some people's feelings.

I guess we'll find out if that's true.

What does God want from us, perfection?

No. Just faith.

[Gary Childress]

Pretty much the worst I've done is hurt some people's feelings.

I guess we'll find out if that's true.

What does God want from us, perfection?

No. Just faith.

Again, you DO NOT KNOW THIS, IC. You don't know what God wants. I don't know what God wants. If God wanted us to do something he can give us a single set of instructions to follow, not 5 different conflicting ones (counting only the main religions still in existence). Go rest your proselytistic jets.

[Immanuel Can]

Pretty much the worst I've done is hurt some people's feelings.

I guess we'll find out if that's true.

What does God want from us, perfection?

No. Just faith.

Again, you DO NOT KNOW THIS, IC. You don't know what God wants.

Fascinating that you imagine you're able to say what I can or cannot know. What's your basis?

I don't know what God wants.

I believe that. You tell me so. And you model it.

If God wanted us to do something he can give us a single set of instructions to follow, not 5 different conflicting ones (counting only the main religions still in existence).

What makes you think He hasn't? If you don't know what the Bible is, then what's your basis for supposing nobody else can, either?

[Gary Childress]

I guess we'll find out if that's true.
No. Just faith.

Again, you DO NOT KNOW THIS, IC. You don't know what God wants.

Fascinating that you imagine you're able to say what I can or cannot know. What's your basis?

If you know something more than I do about such things, then I assume you've returned from the dead or something miraculous. Have you?