God
“There are, as we know, powerful and illustrious atheists. At bottom, led back to the truth by their very force, they are not absolutely sure that they are atheists; it is with them only a question of definition, and in any case, if they do not believe in God, being great minds, they prove God.” Victor Hugo
See, not much God and religion can't be twisted into.
“Chimerical and empty being, your name alone has caused more blood to flow on the face of the earth than any political war ever will. Return to the nothingness from which the mad hope and ridiculous fright of men dared call you forth to their misfortune. You only appeared as a torment for the human race. What crimes would have been spared the world, if they had choked the first imbecile who thought of speaking of you.
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
“There are certain mortal moments and minutes that matter. Certain hingepoints in the history of each human. Some seconds are so decisive they shrink the soul, while others are spent, so as to stretch the soul.” Neal A. Maxwell
Next up: shrinking and stretching No Soul.
“Suffering can bend & break us. But it can also break us open to become the persons God intended us to be. It depends on what we do with the pain. If we offer it back to God, He will use it to do great things in us & through us, because suffering is fertile...it an grow new life.” John Green
So, you'll have to ask yourself, "am I suffering enough?"
“I've been a Christian since I was a little girl. But my Christianity is a muddy mess of thoughts and opinions and making God into what works for me-like going shopping at the mall and picking out whatever I want, putting together faith like I would an outfit. Somehow I don't think the Creator, the I AM, the savior of the world is something we can mix and match to out liking.” Cindy Martinusen-Coloma
See, I told you. With so much at stake on both sides of the grave, you had better be very, very careful who you make that leap to.
“The true Christian was intended by Christ to prove all things by the Word of God: all churches, all ministers, all teaching, all preaching, all doctrines, all sermons, all writings, all opinions, all practices. These are his marching orders. Prove all by the Word of God; measure all by the measure of the Bible; compare all with the standard of the Bible; weigh all in the balances of the Bible; examine all by the light of the Bible; test all in the crucible of the Bible. That which cannot abide the fire of the Bible, reject, refuse, repudiate, and cast away. This is the flag which he nailed to the mast. May it never be lowered!” John Wycliffe
Your guess is as good as mine?
Quote of the day
-
accelafine
- Posts: 5042
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Re: Quote of the day
''Net worth makes your hair grow'': Elon Musk.
I think I love this man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Ip4sn-NAQ
I think I love this man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Ip4sn-NAQ
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
There are particularly bad places to come across a psychopath. Out in the middle of the Pacific ocean, for example. Who are you going to turn to? And where exactly can you go to hide?
The horror here is [once again] embodied in another actual human being. They tell us one thing and in reality it is something else altogether. It’s just that sometimes the gaps can more consequential.
Billy Zane. He has one of those faces, doesn’t he? It’s handsome, sure. But it’s also so goddam sinister. Why is that? Why do most react to it that way? Why is he often cast in this sort of role? Remember him from Titantic? It’s just strange how that seems to work. Nature? Nurture?
And the traumatic opening sequence. The accident. The dead son.
This film is effective because Zane’s character is especially chilling. He’s not the sort of maniac you’re used to. He isn’t flailing about all the time. But you know that he can be. On the other hand, she seemed to have missed a lot of opportunities to become a maniac herself. Ambiguities abound here in their “relationship”.
And I would have preferred a more ambiguous ending.
Finally, the part where it's decided whether Hughie is more the sociopath or the psychopath. And that makes all the difference in the world when assigning moral responsibility.
Dead Calm
John [to Rae]: We’ve got weeks and weeks. Calm days, calm sea. And we’re gonna get strong. And when you are strong, then we’ll go home. And then we’ll start again.
And, eventually, after going through Hell on Earth, they'll do exactly that. On the other hand, nothing will ever be the same.
John: Well, look at that. The first boat we’ve seen in 3 weeks.
What could go wrong?
Hughie: There were six of us. The others died 10 days ago. One by one. It all happened in a day.
He might want to check that out.
John: What happened?
Hughie: Ever thought about how life can hinge on the smallest thing? I mean, ever since I was a kid, I thought salmon was for cats.
Of course, he's only paraphrasing Benjamin Button.
Hughie: At first we thought it was the tourists trots…until Chantel looked at her hand and said, “Picasso should have painted it.” It had seven fingers.
Wait'll you see the rest of them.
Hughie: Friends?
Rae: Friends.
With benefits as they say. Only this time it's considerably more twisted.
Rae: You know what I’d love for lunch? Fresh asparagus, then, um, pasta - angel hair pasta with heaps of basil, garlic, olive oil and, um, apple pie. Yeah. Uh, John, have you got a towel?
No, but he has a flare.
The horror here is [once again] embodied in another actual human being. They tell us one thing and in reality it is something else altogether. It’s just that sometimes the gaps can more consequential.
Billy Zane. He has one of those faces, doesn’t he? It’s handsome, sure. But it’s also so goddam sinister. Why is that? Why do most react to it that way? Why is he often cast in this sort of role? Remember him from Titantic? It’s just strange how that seems to work. Nature? Nurture?
And the traumatic opening sequence. The accident. The dead son.
This film is effective because Zane’s character is especially chilling. He’s not the sort of maniac you’re used to. He isn’t flailing about all the time. But you know that he can be. On the other hand, she seemed to have missed a lot of opportunities to become a maniac herself. Ambiguities abound here in their “relationship”.
And I would have preferred a more ambiguous ending.
Finally, the part where it's decided whether Hughie is more the sociopath or the psychopath. And that makes all the difference in the world when assigning moral responsibility.
Dead Calm
John [to Rae]: We’ve got weeks and weeks. Calm days, calm sea. And we’re gonna get strong. And when you are strong, then we’ll go home. And then we’ll start again.
And, eventually, after going through Hell on Earth, they'll do exactly that. On the other hand, nothing will ever be the same.
John: Well, look at that. The first boat we’ve seen in 3 weeks.
What could go wrong?
Hughie: There were six of us. The others died 10 days ago. One by one. It all happened in a day.
He might want to check that out.
John: What happened?
Hughie: Ever thought about how life can hinge on the smallest thing? I mean, ever since I was a kid, I thought salmon was for cats.
Of course, he's only paraphrasing Benjamin Button.
Hughie: At first we thought it was the tourists trots…until Chantel looked at her hand and said, “Picasso should have painted it.” It had seven fingers.
Wait'll you see the rest of them.
Hughie: Friends?
Rae: Friends.
With benefits as they say. Only this time it's considerably more twisted.
Rae: You know what I’d love for lunch? Fresh asparagus, then, um, pasta - angel hair pasta with heaps of basil, garlic, olive oil and, um, apple pie. Yeah. Uh, John, have you got a towel?
No, but he has a flare.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Iris Murdoch from The Sea, The Sea
However, on one occasion, several years ago, I was idiot enough to take a dose of LSD. (I did it to please a woman.) I had what is known as a 'bad trip'. It was a very bad trip. I shall not attempt to describe what I experienced on that dreadful and rather shameful occasion. (I will only add: it concerned entrails.) In fact it would be extremely hard, even impossible, to put it properly into words. It was something morally, spiritually horrible, as if one's stinking inside had emerged and become the universe: a surging emanation of dark half-formed spiritual evil, something never ever to be escaped from. 'Undetachable,' I remember, was a word which somehow 'came along' with the impression of it. In fact the visual images involved were dreadfully clear and, as it were, authoritative ones and they are rising up in front of me at this moment, and I will not write about them. Of course I never took LSD again.
So, how bad was your trip? Coming here, for example.
Even if readers claim that they 'take it all with a grain of salt', they do not really. They yearn to believe, and they believe, because believing is easier than disbelieving, and because anything which is written down is likely to be 'true in a way'.
Next up: "True in a way" here.
A childhood hatred, like a childhood love, can last a lifetime.
New thread?
It was a piece of thoroughly picturesque and proper violence. I like a violent man, really, a man who's a bit of a brute in a decent straightforward way.
Decent straightforward violence here. And not just from the men.
You don't understand people like me, like us, the other ones. You're like a bird that flies in the air, a fish that swims in the sea. You move, you look about you, you want things. There are others who live on earth and move just a little and don't look...
Ominous enough for you?
To say we were 'in love', that vague weakened phrase, cannot express it. We loved each other, we lived in each other, through each other, by each other. We were each other. Why was it such pure unadulterated pain?
Uh, Hell is other people?
However, on one occasion, several years ago, I was idiot enough to take a dose of LSD. (I did it to please a woman.) I had what is known as a 'bad trip'. It was a very bad trip. I shall not attempt to describe what I experienced on that dreadful and rather shameful occasion. (I will only add: it concerned entrails.) In fact it would be extremely hard, even impossible, to put it properly into words. It was something morally, spiritually horrible, as if one's stinking inside had emerged and become the universe: a surging emanation of dark half-formed spiritual evil, something never ever to be escaped from. 'Undetachable,' I remember, was a word which somehow 'came along' with the impression of it. In fact the visual images involved were dreadfully clear and, as it were, authoritative ones and they are rising up in front of me at this moment, and I will not write about them. Of course I never took LSD again.
So, how bad was your trip? Coming here, for example.
Even if readers claim that they 'take it all with a grain of salt', they do not really. They yearn to believe, and they believe, because believing is easier than disbelieving, and because anything which is written down is likely to be 'true in a way'.
Next up: "True in a way" here.
A childhood hatred, like a childhood love, can last a lifetime.
New thread?
It was a piece of thoroughly picturesque and proper violence. I like a violent man, really, a man who's a bit of a brute in a decent straightforward way.
Decent straightforward violence here. And not just from the men.
You don't understand people like me, like us, the other ones. You're like a bird that flies in the air, a fish that swims in the sea. You move, you look about you, you want things. There are others who live on earth and move just a little and don't look...
Ominous enough for you?
To say we were 'in love', that vague weakened phrase, cannot express it. We loved each other, we lived in each other, through each other, by each other. We were each other. Why was it such pure unadulterated pain?
Uh, Hell is other people?
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Making a buck off the Pope? Why not. After all, unlike Papa, Beto is poor. And he also has a family to feed. Unlike Papa.
The idea is to build a toilet along the Pope’s route. In other words, to charge folks for using it. What could possibly go wrong?
God willing, as it were.
And then Beto still has Heaven to look forward to.
In the interim, he’s a two-bit smuggler struggling to survive from day to day. Again, unlike Papa.
Your heart really goes out to Silvia though. She has dreams and the only thing that stands between them and her is reality. The rather simple reality of being born into the wrong family. A poor one.
Of course, unlike the Pope, God does see all of this. So just be patient.
The Pope's Toilet [El Baño del Papa]
Title card: The events of this story are in essense true and it’s only by chance that they didn’t occur the way they are told here.
Not many bases that doesn't cover.
Silvia: Mom, are you going to that Pope thing?
Carmen: If God wills it.
No shit?
Neighbor: I’m going to sell quiches.
Carmen: You’re going to use the Pope to do business?
Neighbor: No, I’m going to work and benefit from the crowd. Valvulina’s going to sell chorizo.
Carmen: There’s going to be a big change around here, but God punishes those things.
Neighbor: Punishment is the politicians we’ve got. What we really need is a miracle.
Or a Second Coming.
Silvia: I will never become a smuggler!
Beto: What will you become then, Miss Universe?
If it comes down to them, how about you?
Everyone is preparing to milk the Pope’s visit...
Man: Did you hear what Cantinflas did?
Backie: What?
Man: He sold his house for two cows?
Blackie: Two cows? He’s crazy.
Man: How’s he going to barbecue them?
Blackie: Doesn’t know.
Man: Crazy dumbshit.
We'll see.
Beto [to man who sold his bike to sell sausages]: Is the Pope going to save you too?
Why take chances?
Sign on a wall: JOHN PAUL II THE WORKING WORLD SALUTES YOU!
Signed the ruling class.
Beto: God will help us.
Carmen: If He doesn’t help the poor, who does He help?
Of course, we know how impoverished the Pope and the Catholic Church are.
Meleyo: Who covers your ass? The Pope? The military? Those little shop owners? No, it’s me who covers your ass. The son of a bitch mobile patrol, Beto! What do I tell Luna? What do you want? You want me to bring him to your home so your daughter can lick his belly and your wife can suck him off? You choose, Beto. You choose.
What did he tell Luna?
Television reporter: The inhabitants of Melo received the Holy Father’s blessing, with joy and reverence. His blessing will bring love and understanding for all. And work, health…
Beto [scoffing toward the TV]: Work?
Television reporter: …development, a better life. A properous future awaits us.
Beto: You can stuff your future up your fucking ass! What properous future?! What does he mean?! The Pope doesn’t have a clue!
He still doesn't.
Title card: The Pope never came back. It’s estimated that on May 8th, 1988, fewer than 8,000 people attended the speech. Most were from Melo. 387 stands were set up. There were about 400 Brazilians. And some 300 journalists. The media had the town expecting 20,000 at a minimum…and then all the way up to 200,000!
"Keep 'em doped with religion..."
Beto’s voice [from inside the toilet]: I have an idea!
Of course, we all know what that was.
Except I forgot.
The idea is to build a toilet along the Pope’s route. In other words, to charge folks for using it. What could possibly go wrong?
God willing, as it were.
And then Beto still has Heaven to look forward to.
In the interim, he’s a two-bit smuggler struggling to survive from day to day. Again, unlike Papa.
Your heart really goes out to Silvia though. She has dreams and the only thing that stands between them and her is reality. The rather simple reality of being born into the wrong family. A poor one.
Of course, unlike the Pope, God does see all of this. So just be patient.
The Pope's Toilet [El Baño del Papa]
Title card: The events of this story are in essense true and it’s only by chance that they didn’t occur the way they are told here.
Not many bases that doesn't cover.
Silvia: Mom, are you going to that Pope thing?
Carmen: If God wills it.
No shit?
Neighbor: I’m going to sell quiches.
Carmen: You’re going to use the Pope to do business?
Neighbor: No, I’m going to work and benefit from the crowd. Valvulina’s going to sell chorizo.
Carmen: There’s going to be a big change around here, but God punishes those things.
Neighbor: Punishment is the politicians we’ve got. What we really need is a miracle.
Or a Second Coming.
Silvia: I will never become a smuggler!
Beto: What will you become then, Miss Universe?
If it comes down to them, how about you?
Everyone is preparing to milk the Pope’s visit...
Man: Did you hear what Cantinflas did?
Backie: What?
Man: He sold his house for two cows?
Blackie: Two cows? He’s crazy.
Man: How’s he going to barbecue them?
Blackie: Doesn’t know.
Man: Crazy dumbshit.
We'll see.
Beto [to man who sold his bike to sell sausages]: Is the Pope going to save you too?
Why take chances?
Sign on a wall: JOHN PAUL II THE WORKING WORLD SALUTES YOU!
Signed the ruling class.
Beto: God will help us.
Carmen: If He doesn’t help the poor, who does He help?
Of course, we know how impoverished the Pope and the Catholic Church are.
Meleyo: Who covers your ass? The Pope? The military? Those little shop owners? No, it’s me who covers your ass. The son of a bitch mobile patrol, Beto! What do I tell Luna? What do you want? You want me to bring him to your home so your daughter can lick his belly and your wife can suck him off? You choose, Beto. You choose.
What did he tell Luna?
Television reporter: The inhabitants of Melo received the Holy Father’s blessing, with joy and reverence. His blessing will bring love and understanding for all. And work, health…
Beto [scoffing toward the TV]: Work?
Television reporter: …development, a better life. A properous future awaits us.
Beto: You can stuff your future up your fucking ass! What properous future?! What does he mean?! The Pope doesn’t have a clue!
He still doesn't.
Title card: The Pope never came back. It’s estimated that on May 8th, 1988, fewer than 8,000 people attended the speech. Most were from Melo. 387 stands were set up. There were about 400 Brazilians. And some 300 journalists. The media had the town expecting 20,000 at a minimum…and then all the way up to 200,000!
"Keep 'em doped with religion..."
Beto’s voice [from inside the toilet]: I have an idea!
Of course, we all know what that was.
Except I forgot.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Imagine viewing this film when it first came out. With no real understanding yet of what Bush and Cheney Inc. had in store for this country.
On the other hand:
Significantly, the film is silent about what happens to ‘Satellite’ after the Americans finally land in their refugee camp. Some critics believe that the film reflects the true sentiment of Iraqi Kurds, many of whom suffered greatly under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein and strongly supported the US military invasion and occupation of Iraq. wiki
Turks, Iraqis, Kurds, Iranians, Allah. Endless war. And kids. Lots of kids. But not like the kids most of us know. Homeless kids who have lost their parents to the wars. And then there are the mines. And those children [some armless and legless] who are paid to collect them.
The film opens with a young girl leaping to her death. A suicide. After she drowned her own child. But once you watch the entire movie you won’t be wondering why.
All of the child actors in this movie were actual refugees.
The first film to be made in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein.
Red Fish, which appear commonly throughout the film, are one of the seven symbols of Nowruz, the Iranian New Year, and symbolize life within life. Ironically, Nowruz is on March 20, the day the United States staged the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, during which the film takes place. IMDb
Turtles Can Fly [Lakposhtha Parvaz Mikonand]
Title card: Kurdistan, Iraq-Turkish border. A few weeks before the U.S.-Iraq war.
What could possibly go wrong?
Satellite: Not long now before USA comes!
Old man: What’s USA?
Satellite: USA means America. Have you seen the movie Titantic? Titanic. Washington, San Francisco, Bruce Lee.
Not to mention the military industrial complex and the war exonomy.
Old man from Iran: That boy is very important. He makes predictions. These days money is in the news. War! The world is at war. Everybody’s after news.
Old man from Iraq: Buy a satellite to get the news.
Old man from Iran: A satellite? What for? It’s all lies. They lie to fill their pockets.
Of course, we did save the world from Saddam Hussiens weapons of mass destruction. Any day now, they'll be found.
Satellite: My job is to install the dish, which I did. I have to go now. I did my job. I’m responsible for the village children. I have to make an income for them.
He is barely a teenager himself.
Satellite [pointing to CNN on the TV]: Here is Mr. Bush, Esmaeel! The world is in his hands!
Cue Rummy and his rules?
Satellite: Okay, mister. How much for the mines today?
Ahmad: How many have you got?
Satellite: 96.
Ahmad: You used to bring 10 or 15. What’s happened?
Satellite: Don’t think about that. How much?
Ahmad: 22 dinars and not a fals more.
Satellite: What? 22 dinars? You paid more before. You think I don’t know you sell them to UN for 2200 dinars each?!
Cue the lords of war?
Agrin: I can’t take care of the bastard all night long!
Brother: What was that? You said bastard again?
Agrin: If he is not a bastard, then what is he? Isn’t he the child of those who killed our family and did this to me? Now he is my child.
The fog of war, let's call it. Anyone else here been in it?
Satellite [reading aloud a leaflet dropped from American helicopters]: “It’s the end of injustice, misfortune and hardship. We are your best friends and brothers. Those against us are our enemies. We will make this country a paradise. We are here to take away your sorrows. We are the best in the world.”
Then the equivalent of that in Ukraine and Gaza and Lebanon.
And here?
Satellite [to Riga]: It’s a mine! Don’t touch it! Don’t touch it, it’s a mine!
Mines. Must be trillions of them by now out there.
Esmaeel: You kept saying, USA, USA, until you fell on a USA mine.
Or, here, you get blown to bits by a bazooka.
On the other hand:
Significantly, the film is silent about what happens to ‘Satellite’ after the Americans finally land in their refugee camp. Some critics believe that the film reflects the true sentiment of Iraqi Kurds, many of whom suffered greatly under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein and strongly supported the US military invasion and occupation of Iraq. wiki
Turks, Iraqis, Kurds, Iranians, Allah. Endless war. And kids. Lots of kids. But not like the kids most of us know. Homeless kids who have lost their parents to the wars. And then there are the mines. And those children [some armless and legless] who are paid to collect them.
The film opens with a young girl leaping to her death. A suicide. After she drowned her own child. But once you watch the entire movie you won’t be wondering why.
All of the child actors in this movie were actual refugees.
The first film to be made in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein.
Red Fish, which appear commonly throughout the film, are one of the seven symbols of Nowruz, the Iranian New Year, and symbolize life within life. Ironically, Nowruz is on March 20, the day the United States staged the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, during which the film takes place. IMDb
Turtles Can Fly [Lakposhtha Parvaz Mikonand]
Title card: Kurdistan, Iraq-Turkish border. A few weeks before the U.S.-Iraq war.
What could possibly go wrong?
Satellite: Not long now before USA comes!
Old man: What’s USA?
Satellite: USA means America. Have you seen the movie Titantic? Titanic. Washington, San Francisco, Bruce Lee.
Not to mention the military industrial complex and the war exonomy.
Old man from Iran: That boy is very important. He makes predictions. These days money is in the news. War! The world is at war. Everybody’s after news.
Old man from Iraq: Buy a satellite to get the news.
Old man from Iran: A satellite? What for? It’s all lies. They lie to fill their pockets.
Of course, we did save the world from Saddam Hussiens weapons of mass destruction. Any day now, they'll be found.
Satellite: My job is to install the dish, which I did. I have to go now. I did my job. I’m responsible for the village children. I have to make an income for them.
He is barely a teenager himself.
Satellite [pointing to CNN on the TV]: Here is Mr. Bush, Esmaeel! The world is in his hands!
Cue Rummy and his rules?
Satellite: Okay, mister. How much for the mines today?
Ahmad: How many have you got?
Satellite: 96.
Ahmad: You used to bring 10 or 15. What’s happened?
Satellite: Don’t think about that. How much?
Ahmad: 22 dinars and not a fals more.
Satellite: What? 22 dinars? You paid more before. You think I don’t know you sell them to UN for 2200 dinars each?!
Cue the lords of war?
Agrin: I can’t take care of the bastard all night long!
Brother: What was that? You said bastard again?
Agrin: If he is not a bastard, then what is he? Isn’t he the child of those who killed our family and did this to me? Now he is my child.
The fog of war, let's call it. Anyone else here been in it?
Satellite [reading aloud a leaflet dropped from American helicopters]: “It’s the end of injustice, misfortune and hardship. We are your best friends and brothers. Those against us are our enemies. We will make this country a paradise. We are here to take away your sorrows. We are the best in the world.”
Then the equivalent of that in Ukraine and Gaza and Lebanon.
And here?
Satellite [to Riga]: It’s a mine! Don’t touch it! Don’t touch it, it’s a mine!
Mines. Must be trillions of them by now out there.
Esmaeel: You kept saying, USA, USA, until you fell on a USA mine.
Or, here, you get blown to bits by a bazooka.
-
promethean75
- Posts: 7113
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm
Re: Quote of the day
"Venezuela is at record low crime rates right now because the country is sending all its criminals to the U.S." - Don T, Interregional Demographics and Statistics Committee Board Conference
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Death
“Endings are not always bad. Most times they're just beginnings in disguise.” Kim Harrison
Just out of curiosity, what are they here?
“That is death - shifting from "is" to "was.” Veronica Roth
Billions of them so far. In case you were wondering.
“Do you know why hurricanes have names instead of numbers? To keep the killing personal. No one cares about a bunch of people killed by a number. '200 Dead as Number Three Slams Ashore' is not nearly as interesting a headline as 'Charlie kills 200.' Death is much more satisfying and entertaining if you personalize it. Me, I'm still waitin' for Hurricane Ed. Old Ed wouldn't hurt ya, would he? Sounds kinda friendly. 'Hell no, we ain't evacuatin'. Ed's comin'!” George Carlin
Next up: Helene's coming!
Signed, God.
“For the first time in my life I tasted death, and death tasted bitter, for death is birth, is fear and dread of some terrible renewal.” Hermann Hesse
In other words, whatever that means.
“Death was standing behind a lectern, poring over a map. He looked at Mort as if he wasn’t entirely there.
Yᴏᴜ ʜᴀᴠᴇɴ'ᴛ ʜᴇᴀʀᴅ ᴏғ ᴛʜᴇ Bᴀʏ Oғ Mᴀɴᴛᴇ, ʜᴀᴠᴇ ʏᴏᴜ? he said.
“No, sir,” said Mort.
Fᴀᴍᴏᴜs sʜɪᴘᴡʀᴇᴄᴋ ᴛʜᴇʀᴇ.
“Was there?”
Tʜᴇʀᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʙᴇ, said Death, ɪғ I ᴄᴀɴ ғɪɴᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴀᴍɴ ᴘʟᴀᴄᴇ.” Terry Pratchett
Kant would have told him, for sure.
“On no subject are our ideas more warped and pitiable than on death. ... Let children walk with nature, let them see the beautiful blendings and communions of death and life, their joyous inseparable unity, as taught in woods and meadows, plains and mountains and streams of our blessed star, and they will learn that death is stingless indeed, and as beautiful as life, and that the grave has no victory, for it never fights.” John Muir
People actually think this stuff up. And even believe it.
“Endings are not always bad. Most times they're just beginnings in disguise.” Kim Harrison
Just out of curiosity, what are they here?
“That is death - shifting from "is" to "was.” Veronica Roth
Billions of them so far. In case you were wondering.
“Do you know why hurricanes have names instead of numbers? To keep the killing personal. No one cares about a bunch of people killed by a number. '200 Dead as Number Three Slams Ashore' is not nearly as interesting a headline as 'Charlie kills 200.' Death is much more satisfying and entertaining if you personalize it. Me, I'm still waitin' for Hurricane Ed. Old Ed wouldn't hurt ya, would he? Sounds kinda friendly. 'Hell no, we ain't evacuatin'. Ed's comin'!” George Carlin
Next up: Helene's coming!
Signed, God.
“For the first time in my life I tasted death, and death tasted bitter, for death is birth, is fear and dread of some terrible renewal.” Hermann Hesse
In other words, whatever that means.
“Death was standing behind a lectern, poring over a map. He looked at Mort as if he wasn’t entirely there.
Yᴏᴜ ʜᴀᴠᴇɴ'ᴛ ʜᴇᴀʀᴅ ᴏғ ᴛʜᴇ Bᴀʏ Oғ Mᴀɴᴛᴇ, ʜᴀᴠᴇ ʏᴏᴜ? he said.
“No, sir,” said Mort.
Fᴀᴍᴏᴜs sʜɪᴘᴡʀᴇᴄᴋ ᴛʜᴇʀᴇ.
“Was there?”
Tʜᴇʀᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʙᴇ, said Death, ɪғ I ᴄᴀɴ ғɪɴᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴀᴍɴ ᴘʟᴀᴄᴇ.” Terry Pratchett
Kant would have told him, for sure.
“On no subject are our ideas more warped and pitiable than on death. ... Let children walk with nature, let them see the beautiful blendings and communions of death and life, their joyous inseparable unity, as taught in woods and meadows, plains and mountains and streams of our blessed star, and they will learn that death is stingless indeed, and as beautiful as life, and that the grave has no victory, for it never fights.” John Muir
People actually think this stuff up. And even believe it.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Your young son is killed by a hit and run driver. And so you think, “this beast must die”. And that is exactly what you set out to do.
A hit and run. Most times there is no intention to kill. It is a stupid accident. Or it is due to negligence. Or to excessive speed. Or to distraction. Or to drink. The true crime most figure is in leaving the scene. But does this justify killing the offender? And even if you believe it does, the “law” can still intervene. It can destroy what is left of your own life. By putting you in prison for example.
Might all of the infinite number of circumstantial contexts then be reduced down to Justice? Remember The Crossing Guard?
As is often the case in human interaction, a frame of mind begins here but in the course of arriving there, there’s no way to predict with any degree of certainty what might unfold. And thus perhaps to change it. And yet, depending on both the time alloted and the junctures reached, it becomes [or can become] a matter of life or death.
What is crucial here though is that this man is a beast. A bully, a brute, a bombastic boor. He seems to possess the emotional and intellectual depth of a Nazi. The ambiguous ending then is really beside the point. It’s not who killed him that matters so much as that he is dead.
This Beast Must Die [Que la Bête Meure]
Charles [voiceover]: I will kill a man. I know neither name, address nor looks. But I will find him and kill him.
As long as he has a good reason, right?
Charles [voiceover]: It may take 6 months, one or two years, but I will find him. I’ll make friends with him. I’ll wait patiently. When he’s trapped, I’ll look at him and smile. Directly in the eye. And I will make him deserve his death!
As long as he has a good reason, right?
Charles [voiceover]: The result is disappointing. Five exhausting weeks for nothing. Dead ends. False hope which leave me desparate. I realize my search is limitless. I’m only one human being tracking another. My only arm is my patience. I have all the time. I have all my life. And all his. Unless chance interferes. Chance is wonderful. And it exists. It’s the only thing that exists. The point of my pen on this paper is like everything in the world…a coincidence.
The needle in a haysack kind it turns out.
Charles: Many friends?
Helene: Not many. My brother-in-law.
Charles: Isn’t he a member of your family?
Helene: No. Yes. No matter.
Charles: Where does he live?
Helene: In Quimper. He own’s a garage.
The plot thickens.
Charles [voiceover after meeting Paul]: A monstrous being…a caricature of a perfectly evil man such as one hopes never to meet in life. I feared I’d find a friendly man. Now my joy to eliminate it will be.
We just have to roll the dice here, right? What if he's not a beast? And what if we become one ourselves?
Charles [voiceover]: Lovers often hesitate, not out of shyness but to prolong their awaiting happiness. I, full of hatred am savouring what awaits me. His killing will only be a gesture of a man throwing away a useless peel of a fruit slowly enjoyed to the pit.
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
Charles [to Philip]: Most people prefer the Odyssey. But the Iliad is the most sublime ever written. Later on, when you read Kafka, you’ll see it’s similar. But Homer is better. There’s a town which is mentioned. And no one ever enters. Hundreds and hundreds of young heroes fight and die for that inaccessible and unreal thing.
Well, some things will never change.
Charles [to Philip]: When a bad poet describes death, he automatically uses cliches. He writes about eyes frowning, at the sweat beading on the forehead. Of the ghastly inhuman grin. There’s none of that in Homer. Every death he describes is particular. Real even.
Note a few them.
Charles [in a letter of “confession” to Helene]: “Now I am going to set sail. I will go far and never return. I will disappear Helene, erase myself. I acted like a coward. The prison scared me. And I accepted Philip’s sacrifice. I shall choose my own punishment. Brahms wrote a song paraphrase Ecclesiastics. It says ‘The Beast must die. But the man too. One and the other must die.’”
Two birds with one stone if you buy that.
A hit and run. Most times there is no intention to kill. It is a stupid accident. Or it is due to negligence. Or to excessive speed. Or to distraction. Or to drink. The true crime most figure is in leaving the scene. But does this justify killing the offender? And even if you believe it does, the “law” can still intervene. It can destroy what is left of your own life. By putting you in prison for example.
Might all of the infinite number of circumstantial contexts then be reduced down to Justice? Remember The Crossing Guard?
As is often the case in human interaction, a frame of mind begins here but in the course of arriving there, there’s no way to predict with any degree of certainty what might unfold. And thus perhaps to change it. And yet, depending on both the time alloted and the junctures reached, it becomes [or can become] a matter of life or death.
What is crucial here though is that this man is a beast. A bully, a brute, a bombastic boor. He seems to possess the emotional and intellectual depth of a Nazi. The ambiguous ending then is really beside the point. It’s not who killed him that matters so much as that he is dead.
This Beast Must Die [Que la Bête Meure]
Charles [voiceover]: I will kill a man. I know neither name, address nor looks. But I will find him and kill him.
As long as he has a good reason, right?
Charles [voiceover]: It may take 6 months, one or two years, but I will find him. I’ll make friends with him. I’ll wait patiently. When he’s trapped, I’ll look at him and smile. Directly in the eye. And I will make him deserve his death!
As long as he has a good reason, right?
Charles [voiceover]: The result is disappointing. Five exhausting weeks for nothing. Dead ends. False hope which leave me desparate. I realize my search is limitless. I’m only one human being tracking another. My only arm is my patience. I have all the time. I have all my life. And all his. Unless chance interferes. Chance is wonderful. And it exists. It’s the only thing that exists. The point of my pen on this paper is like everything in the world…a coincidence.
The needle in a haysack kind it turns out.
Charles: Many friends?
Helene: Not many. My brother-in-law.
Charles: Isn’t he a member of your family?
Helene: No. Yes. No matter.
Charles: Where does he live?
Helene: In Quimper. He own’s a garage.
The plot thickens.
Charles [voiceover after meeting Paul]: A monstrous being…a caricature of a perfectly evil man such as one hopes never to meet in life. I feared I’d find a friendly man. Now my joy to eliminate it will be.
We just have to roll the dice here, right? What if he's not a beast? And what if we become one ourselves?
Charles [voiceover]: Lovers often hesitate, not out of shyness but to prolong their awaiting happiness. I, full of hatred am savouring what awaits me. His killing will only be a gesture of a man throwing away a useless peel of a fruit slowly enjoyed to the pit.
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
Charles [to Philip]: Most people prefer the Odyssey. But the Iliad is the most sublime ever written. Later on, when you read Kafka, you’ll see it’s similar. But Homer is better. There’s a town which is mentioned. And no one ever enters. Hundreds and hundreds of young heroes fight and die for that inaccessible and unreal thing.
Well, some things will never change.
Charles [to Philip]: When a bad poet describes death, he automatically uses cliches. He writes about eyes frowning, at the sweat beading on the forehead. Of the ghastly inhuman grin. There’s none of that in Homer. Every death he describes is particular. Real even.
Note a few them.
Charles [in a letter of “confession” to Helene]: “Now I am going to set sail. I will go far and never return. I will disappear Helene, erase myself. I acted like a coward. The prison scared me. And I accepted Philip’s sacrifice. I shall choose my own punishment. Brahms wrote a song paraphrase Ecclesiastics. It says ‘The Beast must die. But the man too. One and the other must die.’”
Two birds with one stone if you buy that.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Even “interiors” revolve largely around demographics. Which is why some will watch a film like this enthusiatically nodding their heads while others will shake their own in disbelief. For some it’s the whole point and for others it has no point at all.
It’s bounded by historical and cultural assumptions. And by endless squabbles regarding 1] what it means to be creative and 2] which of them is. Everyone is always self-conscious about what they say because there seem to be certain things one should not say.
Let’s face it, some folks are intent at designing the mind’s interiors as others would design the interior of their home. Or their garage?
In any event, it always seems to reinforce my decision to pull completely out of my own family; and to settle instead on the conviction that, first and foremost, one must always be one’s own best friend. It really makes no difference that I resided instead in the belly of the white working class beast. Never let a family suck you down into something you know in your heart of hearts is bullshit. Even if you know there is no “right way” in which to live, it’s not all that hard to discern a “way of life” that rankles you down to the bone.
Existentially, as it were.
Just to note: This may be more Willis than Woody but the film is absolutely gorgeous to look at.
"First serious dramatic film of Woody Allen and as such Allen’s first film which was not a comedy. Woody Allen was known for comedy, and wanted to break the mold by having no humor at all in this picture. At one point the family is gathered around the table laughing at a joke which Arthur has just told, but we never hear the joke."
Yet there will always be the cynics who think of this as one of Woody Allen’s funniest films.
Interiors
Arthur [voiceover]: The truth is she’d created a world around us that we existed in, where everything had its place, where there was always a kind of harmony. Great dignity. I will say it was like an ice palace. Then suddenly one day, out of nowhere, an enormous abyss opened up beneath our feet and I was staring into a face I didn’t recognise.
Pick two:
1] shit happens
2[ God's will
Michael [into a microphone]: “The basic popularity and appeal of Mao for so-called American Marxists.” This is supposed to go in the sequence - in under the sequence in reel two about South Africa. Um… what we wanna do is get two examples. The idea is his style was Marxist-Leninist - Mao’s style - but that he was accessible to the lower classes because of his use of homilies. An example is: “The hardest thing is to act properly throughout one’s whole life.” What the hell does that mean? Or, even worse…
Next up: Uh, Trotsky?
Renata: Increasing thoughts about death just seemed to come over me. Um, these, uh…A preoccupation with my own mortality. These feelings of futility in relation to my work. I mean, just what am I striving to create anyway? I mean, to what end? For what purpose, what goal? I mean…Do I really care if a handful of my poems are read after I’m gone? Is that supposed to be some sort of compensation? I used to think it was, but now, for some reason…I can’t…I can’t seem to…I can’t seem to shake the real implication of dying. It’s terrifying. The intimacy of it embarrasses me.
Same here, right?
Joey [to Michael]: I feel a real need to express something but I don’t know what it is I want to express or how to express it.
Same here, right?
Renata: The book didn’t get the response it deserved. I hate to tell you how often they’ve missed the boat.
Frederick: Stop lying to me. I count on you for honesty, not flattery.
Renata: I’m not lying. I’m not lying. And who cares what anybody thinks? They think what I think.
Frederick: My work once showed promise and I haven’t delivered.
Renata: Your work’s not fashionable. You should be thankful for that, for God’s sakes. What are you after? The superficial acclaim of some little book reviewer in some room somewhere? We’ve always talked about fine work that means something in the long run.
Frederick: I don’t care about fine work! I don’t wanna wait 20 years! I wanna be able to knock somebody over now!..And half the stuff that’s written, it’s garbage, they praise sky-high!
We seem to have the same sort of prickly dilemma here regarding...“serious philosophy”?
Renata: Drink yourself unconscious. That’s one cliché of being a novelist you have no problem with.
Frederick: Yeah, I sure can drink.
Renata: You’re fine as long as I keep everything going.
Frederick: What? You mean the cheques from Daddy so you can write yourself into immortality?
One way or another it comes back around to money. Not having enough, for exmaple.
Renata: What are these? Are these Joey’s photographs?
Frederick: Oh, yeah.
Renata: Let me see.
Frederick: They’re not very good, I’m afraid.
Renata: No. She doesn’t really have an eye.
Frederick: She’s gonna wanna know what you think, so you’d better get ready.
Renata: Poor Joey. She has all the anguish and anxiety of the artistic personality without any of the talent.
Next up: you have loads of talent but absolutely no anguish and anxiety.
Pearl: You’ll live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to.
New thread?
Frederick [to Flyn]: I did a terrible thing last week. I wrote about this friend’s book. Not a very good book. I pointed that out. Which is what I was getting paid to do. But I was extremely cruel about it. And I took great pleasure in my cruelty. My anger scares me. I don’t like what I’m becoming.
The terrible things we do here?
Frederick [to Flyn]: It’s been such a long time since I made love to a woman I didn’t feel inferior to.
You first.
Joey: Mother, is that you? You shouldn’t be here, not tonight. I’ll take you home. You look so strange and tired. I feel like we’re in a dream together. Please don’t look so sad. It makes me feel so guilty, so consumed with guilt. It’s ironic, because I’ve cared for you so, and you have nothing but distain for me, and yet I feel guilty. I think you’re really too perfect to live in this world. I mean, all the beautifully furnished rooms, carefully designed interiors, everything’s so controlled. There wasn’t any room for any real feelings. None, between any of us. Except Renata, who never gave you the time of day. You worship Renata. You worship talent. Well, what happens to those of us who can’t create? What do we do? What do I do when I’m overwhelmed with feelings about life? How do I get them out? I feel such rage toward you! Oh mother, don’t you see, you’re not just a sick woman. That would be too easy. The truth is, there’s been perverseness, and willfulness of attitude in many of the things you’ve done. At the center of a sick psyche there is a sick spirit. But, I love you. And we have no other choice, but to forgive each other.
How about this: for the last fucking time!
It’s bounded by historical and cultural assumptions. And by endless squabbles regarding 1] what it means to be creative and 2] which of them is. Everyone is always self-conscious about what they say because there seem to be certain things one should not say.
Let’s face it, some folks are intent at designing the mind’s interiors as others would design the interior of their home. Or their garage?
In any event, it always seems to reinforce my decision to pull completely out of my own family; and to settle instead on the conviction that, first and foremost, one must always be one’s own best friend. It really makes no difference that I resided instead in the belly of the white working class beast. Never let a family suck you down into something you know in your heart of hearts is bullshit. Even if you know there is no “right way” in which to live, it’s not all that hard to discern a “way of life” that rankles you down to the bone.
Existentially, as it were.
Just to note: This may be more Willis than Woody but the film is absolutely gorgeous to look at.
"First serious dramatic film of Woody Allen and as such Allen’s first film which was not a comedy. Woody Allen was known for comedy, and wanted to break the mold by having no humor at all in this picture. At one point the family is gathered around the table laughing at a joke which Arthur has just told, but we never hear the joke."
Yet there will always be the cynics who think of this as one of Woody Allen’s funniest films.
Interiors
Arthur [voiceover]: The truth is she’d created a world around us that we existed in, where everything had its place, where there was always a kind of harmony. Great dignity. I will say it was like an ice palace. Then suddenly one day, out of nowhere, an enormous abyss opened up beneath our feet and I was staring into a face I didn’t recognise.
Pick two:
1] shit happens
2[ God's will
Michael [into a microphone]: “The basic popularity and appeal of Mao for so-called American Marxists.” This is supposed to go in the sequence - in under the sequence in reel two about South Africa. Um… what we wanna do is get two examples. The idea is his style was Marxist-Leninist - Mao’s style - but that he was accessible to the lower classes because of his use of homilies. An example is: “The hardest thing is to act properly throughout one’s whole life.” What the hell does that mean? Or, even worse…
Next up: Uh, Trotsky?
Renata: Increasing thoughts about death just seemed to come over me. Um, these, uh…A preoccupation with my own mortality. These feelings of futility in relation to my work. I mean, just what am I striving to create anyway? I mean, to what end? For what purpose, what goal? I mean…Do I really care if a handful of my poems are read after I’m gone? Is that supposed to be some sort of compensation? I used to think it was, but now, for some reason…I can’t…I can’t seem to…I can’t seem to shake the real implication of dying. It’s terrifying. The intimacy of it embarrasses me.
Same here, right?
Joey [to Michael]: I feel a real need to express something but I don’t know what it is I want to express or how to express it.
Same here, right?
Renata: The book didn’t get the response it deserved. I hate to tell you how often they’ve missed the boat.
Frederick: Stop lying to me. I count on you for honesty, not flattery.
Renata: I’m not lying. I’m not lying. And who cares what anybody thinks? They think what I think.
Frederick: My work once showed promise and I haven’t delivered.
Renata: Your work’s not fashionable. You should be thankful for that, for God’s sakes. What are you after? The superficial acclaim of some little book reviewer in some room somewhere? We’ve always talked about fine work that means something in the long run.
Frederick: I don’t care about fine work! I don’t wanna wait 20 years! I wanna be able to knock somebody over now!..And half the stuff that’s written, it’s garbage, they praise sky-high!
We seem to have the same sort of prickly dilemma here regarding...“serious philosophy”?
Renata: Drink yourself unconscious. That’s one cliché of being a novelist you have no problem with.
Frederick: Yeah, I sure can drink.
Renata: You’re fine as long as I keep everything going.
Frederick: What? You mean the cheques from Daddy so you can write yourself into immortality?
One way or another it comes back around to money. Not having enough, for exmaple.
Renata: What are these? Are these Joey’s photographs?
Frederick: Oh, yeah.
Renata: Let me see.
Frederick: They’re not very good, I’m afraid.
Renata: No. She doesn’t really have an eye.
Frederick: She’s gonna wanna know what you think, so you’d better get ready.
Renata: Poor Joey. She has all the anguish and anxiety of the artistic personality without any of the talent.
Next up: you have loads of talent but absolutely no anguish and anxiety.
Pearl: You’ll live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to.
New thread?
Frederick [to Flyn]: I did a terrible thing last week. I wrote about this friend’s book. Not a very good book. I pointed that out. Which is what I was getting paid to do. But I was extremely cruel about it. And I took great pleasure in my cruelty. My anger scares me. I don’t like what I’m becoming.
The terrible things we do here?
Frederick [to Flyn]: It’s been such a long time since I made love to a woman I didn’t feel inferior to.
You first.
Joey: Mother, is that you? You shouldn’t be here, not tonight. I’ll take you home. You look so strange and tired. I feel like we’re in a dream together. Please don’t look so sad. It makes me feel so guilty, so consumed with guilt. It’s ironic, because I’ve cared for you so, and you have nothing but distain for me, and yet I feel guilty. I think you’re really too perfect to live in this world. I mean, all the beautifully furnished rooms, carefully designed interiors, everything’s so controlled. There wasn’t any room for any real feelings. None, between any of us. Except Renata, who never gave you the time of day. You worship Renata. You worship talent. Well, what happens to those of us who can’t create? What do we do? What do I do when I’m overwhelmed with feelings about life? How do I get them out? I feel such rage toward you! Oh mother, don’t you see, you’re not just a sick woman. That would be too easy. The truth is, there’s been perverseness, and willfulness of attitude in many of the things you’ve done. At the center of a sick psyche there is a sick spirit. But, I love you. And we have no other choice, but to forgive each other.
How about this: for the last fucking time!
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Philosophy
“He who cannot obey himself will be commanded. That is the nature of living creatures.” Friedrich Nietzsche
Start here: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/
“One has to take a somewhat bold and dangerous line with this existence: especially as, whatever happens, we are bound to lose it.” Friedrich Nietzsche
All of us here, for example.
In what particular order though?
“Many of our most serious conflicts are conflicts within ourselves. Those who suppose their judgements are always consistent are unreflective or dogmatic.” John Rawls
Read it and weep, Mr. Pinhead!
“A child who does not think about what happens around him and is content with living without wondering whether he lives honestly is like a man who lives from a scoundrel's work and is on the road to being a scoundrel.” Jose Marti
Any scoundrels here? If you know what I mean. And, if so, explain it to me.
“Philosophers are people who know less and less about more and more, until they know nothing about everything. Scientists are people who know more and more about less and less, until they know everything about nothing.” Konrad Lorenz
So, choose wisely.
“Is there any knowledge in the world which is so certain that no reasonable man could doubt it?” Bertrand Russell
For example: birth ---> school ---> work ---> death.
Though, alas, for others it's birth---> work---> death.
“He who cannot obey himself will be commanded. That is the nature of living creatures.” Friedrich Nietzsche
Start here: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/
“One has to take a somewhat bold and dangerous line with this existence: especially as, whatever happens, we are bound to lose it.” Friedrich Nietzsche
All of us here, for example.
In what particular order though?
“Many of our most serious conflicts are conflicts within ourselves. Those who suppose their judgements are always consistent are unreflective or dogmatic.” John Rawls
Read it and weep, Mr. Pinhead!
“A child who does not think about what happens around him and is content with living without wondering whether he lives honestly is like a man who lives from a scoundrel's work and is on the road to being a scoundrel.” Jose Marti
Any scoundrels here? If you know what I mean. And, if so, explain it to me.
“Philosophers are people who know less and less about more and more, until they know nothing about everything. Scientists are people who know more and more about less and less, until they know everything about nothing.” Konrad Lorenz
So, choose wisely.
“Is there any knowledge in the world which is so certain that no reasonable man could doubt it?” Bertrand Russell
For example: birth ---> school ---> work ---> death.
Though, alas, for others it's birth---> work---> death.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Films of this nature tend to be judged as exceptional or not depending on the level of sophistication employed in the narrative. And on the level of complexity in probing what for some is not complex at all. If you do this you are in fact Evil and deserve nothing but contempt from all the rest of us. And [at the very least] until the day you die. And then [for some] you will burn in Hell for all eternity.
This is always a particularly tough subject for me because I get particularly upset when an adult harms a child—for any reason let alone this one. There’s a part of me that wants to lock them all up and throw away the key. But there is another part that recognizes all the variables that can come together to predispose us [any of us] to do all sorts of terrible things. I’ve done a number things [sexually and otherwise] I’m not too proud of myself…and I’ve come to understand the mitigating “past” here all too well. But to kids?
And it seems clear that he has not been wholly rehabilitated or “cured”. He is in fact still a threat. Or maybe not?
The Woodsman
Boss: The only reason I’m doing this is 'cause I know you did good work for my father. So you be here on time. You do your work. I don’t want any kind of problem, period.
What could go wrong? Right, Mary-Kay?
Vickie: You never spoke to me before.
Walter: I thought you were a dyke.
And how ironic is that?
Vickie: I used to think you were shy…but now I think it’s something else.
Walter: What?
Vickie: Something happened to you.
Walter: Yeah?
Vickie: I’m not easily shocked.
Walter: I get that impression.
Vickie: So, you gonna tell me your dark secret?
Walter: Why do you want to know?
Vickie: Don’t you think I should know before we have sex? I don’t like to waste time. So, you gonna tell me your deep, dark secret?
Walter: No.
Sex it is then. Later…
Vickie: So, what did you do? What happened to you? Walter?
Walter: Why do you want to know?
Vickie: Because I like you.
Walter: What’s the worst thing you ever did?
Finally…
Walter: I molested little girls.
[Vickie laughs in disbelief]
Walter: 12 years in prison is no joke.
Vickie [after a long pause]: How young?
Walter: Between 10 and 12. Once a nine-year-old told me she was eleven. Once a 14-year-old told me she was 12. I always asked how old they were.
Vickie: What did you do to them?
Walter: It’s not what you think. I never hurt them. Never. Look…I want you to go now, all right?
Vickie: I told you I’m not easily shocked.
Walter: Yeah, well, you should be shocked…Or do you get off on this shit?
Vickie [she’s shocked now]: What?!
The wrong question to ask, right?
[repeated line]
Walter: When will I be normal?
What, like all the rest of us? Though some already know the implication of that more than others.
Dr. Rosen [to Walter]: You followed a girl. Perhaps you wanted to see what it felt like after so many years. Maybe subconsciously you were testing yourself. And here you are…talking about it with me. This is positive.
On the other hand...this from the Iceman?
Walter: Remember when you asked me what my idea of normal was? Normal is when I can see a girl…be near a girl, even talk to a girl…and not think about…That’s my idea of normal.
Well, in this day and age, good luck with that.
Vickie: I got poked around here and there.
Walter: Jesus. Which brother?
Vickie: All three, in chronological order.
Walter: Why are you telling me this?
Vickie: I’m trying to tell you who I am, if you’re interested.
Walter: You must hate your brothers.
Vickie: I love my brothers.
Walter: No, you don’t.
Vickie: I love all of them. They’re strong, gentle men with families of their own. If you ever asked them about what they did to me, they’d beat the shit out of you. And they’d call you a fucking liar.
When it's all in the family, in some ways it's the same, in some ways it's different? Well, for me anyway.
Sgt. Lucas: Do you believe in Fairy Tales?
Walter: Fairy Tales?
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, like Alice in Wonderland.
Walter: No.
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, yeah, me neither. What’s that one with the Woodsman?
Walter: Woodsman?
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, with the ax?
Walter: I don’t know.
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, you know it. The Woodsman, he cuts open the wolf’s stomach and the little girl come out alive…
Walter: Little Red Riding Hood.
Sgt. Lucas: Little Red Riding Hood! That’s it! That’s it. The Woodsman, he cuts open the wolf’s stomach, the girl comes out without a scratch…You ever see a seven-year-old sodomized in half? She was so small, just broken. I saw 20-year vets on that job. Hard guys, they just broke down and cried. I was there, I cried…There ain’t no fucking woodsman in this world. I don’t know why they keep lettin’ freaks like you out on the street. It just means that we gotta catch you all over again.
Any woodsmen here?
Walter: Robin…
Robin [who is eleven years old]: Yes?
Walter: Would you like to sit on my lap?
Robin: What?
Walter: Would you like to sit on my lap?
Robin: No, thank you.
Walter: Okay. Doesn’t matter.
Robin: Do you want me to sit on your lap?
Walter: Yes. I would enjoy that. I know this place that’s really quiet…except for the sound of these tiny little birds.
Robin: They sound like finches.
Walter: Yeah, they might be finches. Do you want to see?
Robin: My daddy lets me sit on his lap.
Walter: Does he?
Robin: Yes.
Walter: Do you like it when he asks you?
Robin: No.
Walter: Why not?
[Robin starts to cry]
Walter: Are you two alone when he asks you? Does he say strange things? Does he move his legs in funny ways?
Robin: Walter…do you still want me to sit on your lap? I will. I don’t mind.
Walter: No. Go home, Robin.
But it could easily have gone the other way, right? And maybe next time it will. So some are back to locking them up and throwing away the key. In this very imperfect world.
This is always a particularly tough subject for me because I get particularly upset when an adult harms a child—for any reason let alone this one. There’s a part of me that wants to lock them all up and throw away the key. But there is another part that recognizes all the variables that can come together to predispose us [any of us] to do all sorts of terrible things. I’ve done a number things [sexually and otherwise] I’m not too proud of myself…and I’ve come to understand the mitigating “past” here all too well. But to kids?
And it seems clear that he has not been wholly rehabilitated or “cured”. He is in fact still a threat. Or maybe not?
The Woodsman
Boss: The only reason I’m doing this is 'cause I know you did good work for my father. So you be here on time. You do your work. I don’t want any kind of problem, period.
What could go wrong? Right, Mary-Kay?
Vickie: You never spoke to me before.
Walter: I thought you were a dyke.
And how ironic is that?
Vickie: I used to think you were shy…but now I think it’s something else.
Walter: What?
Vickie: Something happened to you.
Walter: Yeah?
Vickie: I’m not easily shocked.
Walter: I get that impression.
Vickie: So, you gonna tell me your dark secret?
Walter: Why do you want to know?
Vickie: Don’t you think I should know before we have sex? I don’t like to waste time. So, you gonna tell me your deep, dark secret?
Walter: No.
Sex it is then. Later…
Vickie: So, what did you do? What happened to you? Walter?
Walter: Why do you want to know?
Vickie: Because I like you.
Walter: What’s the worst thing you ever did?
Finally…
Walter: I molested little girls.
[Vickie laughs in disbelief]
Walter: 12 years in prison is no joke.
Vickie [after a long pause]: How young?
Walter: Between 10 and 12. Once a nine-year-old told me she was eleven. Once a 14-year-old told me she was 12. I always asked how old they were.
Vickie: What did you do to them?
Walter: It’s not what you think. I never hurt them. Never. Look…I want you to go now, all right?
Vickie: I told you I’m not easily shocked.
Walter: Yeah, well, you should be shocked…Or do you get off on this shit?
Vickie [she’s shocked now]: What?!
The wrong question to ask, right?
[repeated line]
Walter: When will I be normal?
What, like all the rest of us? Though some already know the implication of that more than others.
Dr. Rosen [to Walter]: You followed a girl. Perhaps you wanted to see what it felt like after so many years. Maybe subconsciously you were testing yourself. And here you are…talking about it with me. This is positive.
On the other hand...this from the Iceman?
Walter: Remember when you asked me what my idea of normal was? Normal is when I can see a girl…be near a girl, even talk to a girl…and not think about…That’s my idea of normal.
Well, in this day and age, good luck with that.
Vickie: I got poked around here and there.
Walter: Jesus. Which brother?
Vickie: All three, in chronological order.
Walter: Why are you telling me this?
Vickie: I’m trying to tell you who I am, if you’re interested.
Walter: You must hate your brothers.
Vickie: I love my brothers.
Walter: No, you don’t.
Vickie: I love all of them. They’re strong, gentle men with families of their own. If you ever asked them about what they did to me, they’d beat the shit out of you. And they’d call you a fucking liar.
When it's all in the family, in some ways it's the same, in some ways it's different? Well, for me anyway.
Sgt. Lucas: Do you believe in Fairy Tales?
Walter: Fairy Tales?
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, like Alice in Wonderland.
Walter: No.
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, yeah, me neither. What’s that one with the Woodsman?
Walter: Woodsman?
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, with the ax?
Walter: I don’t know.
Sgt. Lucas: Yeah, you know it. The Woodsman, he cuts open the wolf’s stomach and the little girl come out alive…
Walter: Little Red Riding Hood.
Sgt. Lucas: Little Red Riding Hood! That’s it! That’s it. The Woodsman, he cuts open the wolf’s stomach, the girl comes out without a scratch…You ever see a seven-year-old sodomized in half? She was so small, just broken. I saw 20-year vets on that job. Hard guys, they just broke down and cried. I was there, I cried…There ain’t no fucking woodsman in this world. I don’t know why they keep lettin’ freaks like you out on the street. It just means that we gotta catch you all over again.
Any woodsmen here?
Walter: Robin…
Robin [who is eleven years old]: Yes?
Walter: Would you like to sit on my lap?
Robin: What?
Walter: Would you like to sit on my lap?
Robin: No, thank you.
Walter: Okay. Doesn’t matter.
Robin: Do you want me to sit on your lap?
Walter: Yes. I would enjoy that. I know this place that’s really quiet…except for the sound of these tiny little birds.
Robin: They sound like finches.
Walter: Yeah, they might be finches. Do you want to see?
Robin: My daddy lets me sit on his lap.
Walter: Does he?
Robin: Yes.
Walter: Do you like it when he asks you?
Robin: No.
Walter: Why not?
[Robin starts to cry]
Walter: Are you two alone when he asks you? Does he say strange things? Does he move his legs in funny ways?
Robin: Walter…do you still want me to sit on your lap? I will. I don’t mind.
Walter: No. Go home, Robin.
But it could easily have gone the other way, right? And maybe next time it will. So some are back to locking them up and throwing away the key. In this very imperfect world.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
For a lot of complex reasons Tony kept to himself as a child. You could call him strange. I liked him immediately.
He finds something that he loves [illustrating] and his life revolves around it. And then he meets a woman who is equally obsessed with but one thing: clothing.
Really obsessed. And for someone like me who could not possibly care less about them it is astonishing to watch her consume them.
Then this very, very odd relationship begins to unfold.
Are we supposed to take it literally? Or is it meant to convey something about human relationships that transcends any particular one of them. Lessons in loneliness and obsession?
On the other hand, when an older [and not particularly attractive] man meets a beautiful younger woman, lots of things about her can be rationalized. Unless, of course, I completely miss the point. After all, here is a self-contained man who, as a boy, recognized that he was never really lonely. Even in spending long stretches of time alone. And now suddenly he meets this woman and he recognizes instead just how lonely he really is.
Fortunately [or, okay, unfortunately] I’ve never felt that way myself about anyone. And I’ve never wanted to. And I’ve had lots of close relationships. Or perhaps I just never met someone who was able to make me feel these things.
Tonî Takitani
Narrator: Tony couldn’t fathom the value of the kinds of paintings his classmates argued over, painting imbued with artisty or ideology. To him such paintings were just immature, and ugly.
Tony: And inaccurate.
If he says so?
Tony: I’ve never met anyone who inhabits her clothes with such obvious relish as you.
Eiko: I feel that clothes fill up what is missing inside me.
Lots and lots and lots and lots of clothes. And shoes. Turning rooms into closets.
Narrator: They had to order several large wardrobes, along with shelves designed to accommodate her shoes. And when that still wasn’t enough, they had to convert one entire room into a closet.
See, i told you.
Eiko: I am self-centered and I love to indulge myself. I spend almost my entire salary on clothes.
Tony: I never spend money on anything except paints and supplies.
On the other hand [of course], she is very beautiful.
Narrator: This lack of loneliness felt ever so slightly odd to Tony. Because now that he wasn’t lonely he found himself constantly terrified by the possibility of being alone again.
Me? Never happen.
Narrator: In the presence of clothes, she was almost entirely unable to restrain herself.
Define almost?
Eiko [after Tony asked her to cut back on her shopping]: I know I should. But even though I know better, I can’t help myself. When I see beautiful things, I can’t not buy them.
And here I have to admit how my own passion for music and film is exactly the same. And who am I to say what another should find beautiful?
Narrator: Once the mountain of jazz records vanished, Tony Takitani was truly and finally completely alone.
His father died.
Man: You’re Tony Takitani, right?
Tony: Yes.
Man: The thing is, I’m the guy Eiko ditched back then. I hear the chick up and died. Wasn’t that chick a pain?
Tony: She was not a pain, and I’ve forgotten. And stop calling her “that chick”.
Man: So you are dull after all…Just like your drawings.
The last man. Over there.
He finds something that he loves [illustrating] and his life revolves around it. And then he meets a woman who is equally obsessed with but one thing: clothing.
Really obsessed. And for someone like me who could not possibly care less about them it is astonishing to watch her consume them.
Then this very, very odd relationship begins to unfold.
Are we supposed to take it literally? Or is it meant to convey something about human relationships that transcends any particular one of them. Lessons in loneliness and obsession?
On the other hand, when an older [and not particularly attractive] man meets a beautiful younger woman, lots of things about her can be rationalized. Unless, of course, I completely miss the point. After all, here is a self-contained man who, as a boy, recognized that he was never really lonely. Even in spending long stretches of time alone. And now suddenly he meets this woman and he recognizes instead just how lonely he really is.
Fortunately [or, okay, unfortunately] I’ve never felt that way myself about anyone. And I’ve never wanted to. And I’ve had lots of close relationships. Or perhaps I just never met someone who was able to make me feel these things.
Tonî Takitani
Narrator: Tony couldn’t fathom the value of the kinds of paintings his classmates argued over, painting imbued with artisty or ideology. To him such paintings were just immature, and ugly.
Tony: And inaccurate.
If he says so?
Tony: I’ve never met anyone who inhabits her clothes with such obvious relish as you.
Eiko: I feel that clothes fill up what is missing inside me.
Lots and lots and lots and lots of clothes. And shoes. Turning rooms into closets.
Narrator: They had to order several large wardrobes, along with shelves designed to accommodate her shoes. And when that still wasn’t enough, they had to convert one entire room into a closet.
See, i told you.
Eiko: I am self-centered and I love to indulge myself. I spend almost my entire salary on clothes.
Tony: I never spend money on anything except paints and supplies.
On the other hand [of course], she is very beautiful.
Narrator: This lack of loneliness felt ever so slightly odd to Tony. Because now that he wasn’t lonely he found himself constantly terrified by the possibility of being alone again.
Me? Never happen.
Narrator: In the presence of clothes, she was almost entirely unable to restrain herself.
Define almost?
Eiko [after Tony asked her to cut back on her shopping]: I know I should. But even though I know better, I can’t help myself. When I see beautiful things, I can’t not buy them.
And here I have to admit how my own passion for music and film is exactly the same. And who am I to say what another should find beautiful?
Narrator: Once the mountain of jazz records vanished, Tony Takitani was truly and finally completely alone.
His father died.
Man: You’re Tony Takitani, right?
Tony: Yes.
Man: The thing is, I’m the guy Eiko ditched back then. I hear the chick up and died. Wasn’t that chick a pain?
Tony: She was not a pain, and I’ve forgotten. And stop calling her “that chick”.
Man: So you are dull after all…Just like your drawings.
The last man. Over there.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Bret Easton Ellis from The Rules of Attraction
What does that mean know me, know me, nobody ever knows anybody else, ever! You will never know me.
Let alone yourself.
No one ever likes the right person.
How's that working out for you?
I only had sex with her because I'm in love with you.
Go ahead, use that yourself.
And it struck me then, that I liked Sean because he looked, well, slutty. A boy who had been around. A boy who couldn't remember if he was Catholic or not.
Bohemian rhapsody, as it were.
“The Smiths are singing and someone says 'Turn that gay angst music off.'"
Let's run this by Tom and Summer: https://youtu.be/1hyEnE1SwQA?si=R_xrQjnq5hVF9S0k
I wasn't acting on passion. I was simply acting.
Anyone simply acting here?
What does that mean know me, know me, nobody ever knows anybody else, ever! You will never know me.
Let alone yourself.
No one ever likes the right person.
How's that working out for you?
I only had sex with her because I'm in love with you.
Go ahead, use that yourself.
And it struck me then, that I liked Sean because he looked, well, slutty. A boy who had been around. A boy who couldn't remember if he was Catholic or not.
Bohemian rhapsody, as it were.
“The Smiths are singing and someone says 'Turn that gay angst music off.'"
Let's run this by Tom and Summer: https://youtu.be/1hyEnE1SwQA?si=R_xrQjnq5hVF9S0k
I wasn't acting on passion. I was simply acting.
Anyone simply acting here?
Last edited by iambiguous on Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Time to go back to the future…again.
Black and white only boys and girls. Here, there’s a proper place for everyone and everyone is in his or her proper place. And a happy ending is guarenteed. You know, like on The Truman Show.
Yawn?
You bet. And wouldn’t any "cool" kid wallowing in the mindless 1990s want to go back to the mindless 1950s and straighten them all out? One thing for sure: It’s as though the 1960s never existed at all. And, really, we all know that millions upon millions of actual folks out there would give an arm and a leg to have Don Knotts coming knocking on their front door.
Hell, even I wouldn’t mind going back there from time to time.
It’s all a rather comical look at the idea that folks can be indoctrinated [or here scripted] to live out their entire lives in particular ways. Then, all of a sudden, other folks from “outside” their world begin to introduce different ways of behaving instead. Sometimes it's funny and sometimes it's not. Most of the gags here [of course] revolve around sex.
On the other hand, it might go deeper. An attempt not to mimic the 1950s [or make fun of it] as to show it was less about the way it actually was back then and more about the way some would like to think it was. In other words, to remind us that 1950s television and the 1950s are not the same thing. In any event it steers clear of the experiences many in impoverished and working class families endured. And the way they introduced the theme of racial bigoty was to turn some of the black and white white people into “colored” white people. To the best of my recollection, there wasn’t a single person of color at all here.
Strangely, it reminded me of that Star Trek episode where the Enterprise visits a Pleasantville Planet. Everyone always acts in complete conformity [like sheep] because they are being sprayed with spores from the pod plants! Once Kirk and the crew destroy the pods however all the folks are screaming at each other and getting into fights—chaos and calamity ensue. But that’s good. Why? Because that’s what it means to be human. The price of freedom?
In lots of ways, this is just as silly. And just as simplistic. The ending is particularly sappy.
Unless, of course, as some here will assure you, I just don't get it.
Pleasantville
[Montage of teachers talking to David’s classes]
College Counselor: For those of you going on to college next year, the chance of finding a good job will actually decrease by the time you graduate. The available number of entry-level jobs will drop 31 percent over the next four years. Median income for those jobs will go down as well. Obviously, my friends, it’s a competitive world, and good grades are your only ticket through. In fact, by the year 2000…
Health Teacher: The chance of contracting HIV from a non-monogamous lifestyle will climb to 1 in 150. The odds of dying in an auto accident are only 1 in twenty-five hundred. Now, this marks a drastic increase…
Science Teacher: …from fourteen years ago, when ozone depletion was just at 10 percent of its current level. By the time you are thirty years old, average global temperature will have risen two and a half degrees, causing such catastrophic consequences as typhoons, floods, widespread drought, and famine.
[Cut to David absorbing all this grim information and looking really depressed]
Science Teacher [with a bright smile]: Okay! Who can tell me what “famine” is?
Thank God for dictionaries?
Kimmy [overhears David preparing for the Pleasantville marathon]: Oh, my God. He is, like, so pathetic. I can’t believe you’re, like, related to him!
Jennifer: Only on my parents’ side.
Kimmy: Yeah, but you guys are, like, twins and stuff. You must be from the cool side of the uterus.
Anyone here from there?
Jennifer: I still don’t see why we’re doing this.
David: Because we’re supposed to be in school.
Jennifer: We’re supposed to be at home! We’re supposed to be in color!
You know, like we are.
Jennifer [as Mary-Sue in geography class]: What’s outside of Pleasantville?
Teacher: I don’t understand.
Jennifer: Outside of Pleasantville. What’s at the end of Main Street?
Teacher: Mary Sue, you should know the answer to that. The end of Main Street is just the beginning again.
Eternal recurrence they call it.
David: One date, Jen. That’s all I’m asking. If you don’t go out with this guy…we could throw their whole universe out of whack!
Like it isn't already.
Jennifer [looking at her boobs in the mirror]: Are you sure I’m supposed to wear this? I could kill a guy with these things.
David: It’s in your closet.
Jennifer: I’ve worn kinky stuff before, but…
David: He won’t notice anyway.
Jennifer: Why not?
David: They just don’t notice that kind of thing around here.
Especially not in color.
Black and white only boys and girls. Here, there’s a proper place for everyone and everyone is in his or her proper place. And a happy ending is guarenteed. You know, like on The Truman Show.
Yawn?
You bet. And wouldn’t any "cool" kid wallowing in the mindless 1990s want to go back to the mindless 1950s and straighten them all out? One thing for sure: It’s as though the 1960s never existed at all. And, really, we all know that millions upon millions of actual folks out there would give an arm and a leg to have Don Knotts coming knocking on their front door.
Hell, even I wouldn’t mind going back there from time to time.
It’s all a rather comical look at the idea that folks can be indoctrinated [or here scripted] to live out their entire lives in particular ways. Then, all of a sudden, other folks from “outside” their world begin to introduce different ways of behaving instead. Sometimes it's funny and sometimes it's not. Most of the gags here [of course] revolve around sex.
On the other hand, it might go deeper. An attempt not to mimic the 1950s [or make fun of it] as to show it was less about the way it actually was back then and more about the way some would like to think it was. In other words, to remind us that 1950s television and the 1950s are not the same thing. In any event it steers clear of the experiences many in impoverished and working class families endured. And the way they introduced the theme of racial bigoty was to turn some of the black and white white people into “colored” white people. To the best of my recollection, there wasn’t a single person of color at all here.
Strangely, it reminded me of that Star Trek episode where the Enterprise visits a Pleasantville Planet. Everyone always acts in complete conformity [like sheep] because they are being sprayed with spores from the pod plants! Once Kirk and the crew destroy the pods however all the folks are screaming at each other and getting into fights—chaos and calamity ensue. But that’s good. Why? Because that’s what it means to be human. The price of freedom?
In lots of ways, this is just as silly. And just as simplistic. The ending is particularly sappy.
Unless, of course, as some here will assure you, I just don't get it.
Pleasantville
[Montage of teachers talking to David’s classes]
College Counselor: For those of you going on to college next year, the chance of finding a good job will actually decrease by the time you graduate. The available number of entry-level jobs will drop 31 percent over the next four years. Median income for those jobs will go down as well. Obviously, my friends, it’s a competitive world, and good grades are your only ticket through. In fact, by the year 2000…
Health Teacher: The chance of contracting HIV from a non-monogamous lifestyle will climb to 1 in 150. The odds of dying in an auto accident are only 1 in twenty-five hundred. Now, this marks a drastic increase…
Science Teacher: …from fourteen years ago, when ozone depletion was just at 10 percent of its current level. By the time you are thirty years old, average global temperature will have risen two and a half degrees, causing such catastrophic consequences as typhoons, floods, widespread drought, and famine.
[Cut to David absorbing all this grim information and looking really depressed]
Science Teacher [with a bright smile]: Okay! Who can tell me what “famine” is?
Thank God for dictionaries?
Kimmy [overhears David preparing for the Pleasantville marathon]: Oh, my God. He is, like, so pathetic. I can’t believe you’re, like, related to him!
Jennifer: Only on my parents’ side.
Kimmy: Yeah, but you guys are, like, twins and stuff. You must be from the cool side of the uterus.
Anyone here from there?
Jennifer: I still don’t see why we’re doing this.
David: Because we’re supposed to be in school.
Jennifer: We’re supposed to be at home! We’re supposed to be in color!
You know, like we are.
Jennifer [as Mary-Sue in geography class]: What’s outside of Pleasantville?
Teacher: I don’t understand.
Jennifer: Outside of Pleasantville. What’s at the end of Main Street?
Teacher: Mary Sue, you should know the answer to that. The end of Main Street is just the beginning again.
Eternal recurrence they call it.
David: One date, Jen. That’s all I’m asking. If you don’t go out with this guy…we could throw their whole universe out of whack!
Like it isn't already.
Jennifer [looking at her boobs in the mirror]: Are you sure I’m supposed to wear this? I could kill a guy with these things.
David: It’s in your closet.
Jennifer: I’ve worn kinky stuff before, but…
David: He won’t notice anyway.
Jennifer: Why not?
David: They just don’t notice that kind of thing around here.
Especially not in color.