Quote of the day
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Ford Madox Ford from The Good Soldier
Isn't there any Heaven where old beautiful dances, old beautiful intimacies prolong themselves?
On Pay Per View, say?
It is a queer world and fantastic world. Why can't people have what they want?
Again, however, it's not getting what they need that seems all the more problematic.
Edward ought, I suppose, to have gone to the Transvaal. It would have done him a great deal of good to get killed.
That can change everything, of course.
In one's own home it is as if little, innate sympathies draw one to particular chairs that seem to enfold one in an embrace, or take one along particular streets that seem friendly when others may be hostile. And, believe me, that feeling is a very important part of life.
Let's imagine we're at home here then.
You have no idea how engrossing such a profession may become. Just as the blacksmith says: 'By hammer and hand all Art doth stand,' just as the baker thinks that all the solar system revolves around his morning delivery of rolls, as the postmaster-general believes that he alone is the preserver of society - and surely, surely, these delusions are necessary to keep us going.
No delusions here however.
Unless I missed them.
It is queer the fantastic things that quite good people will do in order to keep up their appearance of calm pococurantism.
How far would you be willing to go?
Isn't there any Heaven where old beautiful dances, old beautiful intimacies prolong themselves?
On Pay Per View, say?
It is a queer world and fantastic world. Why can't people have what they want?
Again, however, it's not getting what they need that seems all the more problematic.
Edward ought, I suppose, to have gone to the Transvaal. It would have done him a great deal of good to get killed.
That can change everything, of course.
In one's own home it is as if little, innate sympathies draw one to particular chairs that seem to enfold one in an embrace, or take one along particular streets that seem friendly when others may be hostile. And, believe me, that feeling is a very important part of life.
Let's imagine we're at home here then.
You have no idea how engrossing such a profession may become. Just as the blacksmith says: 'By hammer and hand all Art doth stand,' just as the baker thinks that all the solar system revolves around his morning delivery of rolls, as the postmaster-general believes that he alone is the preserver of society - and surely, surely, these delusions are necessary to keep us going.
No delusions here however.
Unless I missed them.
It is queer the fantastic things that quite good people will do in order to keep up their appearance of calm pococurantism.
How far would you be willing to go?
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Crimes and Misdemeanors
[in an imagined conversation]
Ben: It’s a human life. You don’t think God sees?
Judah: God is a luxury I can’t afford.
Ben: Now you’re talking like your brother Jack.
Judah: Jack lives in the real world. You live in the kingdom of heaven. I’d managed to keep free of that real world but suddenly it’s found me.
Ben: You fool around with her for your pleasure and then when you think its enough you sweep her under the rug.
Judah: There’s no other solution but Jack’s, Ben. I push one button and I can sleep at nights.
Ben: But the law, Judah. Without the law, it’s all darkness.
Judah: You sound like my father. What good is the law if it prevents me from receiving justice? Is just justice? Is this what I deserve?
So, who won?
Judah: It’s pure evil, Jack! A man kills for money and he doesn’t even know his victims!
Ah, the Benjamin Buttonman Syndrome.
Man: What are you saying, May? There’s no morality anywhere in the whole world?
May: For those who want morality, there’s morality. Nothing’s han[ed down in stone.
Woman: Sol’s kind of faith is a gift. It’s like an ear for music, or the talent to draw. He believes. You can use logic on him and he still believes.
Man: Must everything be logical?
Judah: And if a man commits a crime, if he…if he kills…
Sol: One way or another he will be punished.
Man: If he’s caught, Sol.
Sol: If he’s not, that which originates from a black deed will blossom in a foul manner.
Man: You’re relying too heavily on the Bible.
Sol: No, no, no. Whether it’s the Old Testament or Shakespeare, murder will out.
Judah: Who said anything about murder?
Sol: You did.
Judah: Did I?
May: And I say, if he can do it and get away with it and he chooses not to be bothered by the ethics, then he’s home free. Remember, history is written by the winners.
Man: And if all your faith is wrong, Sol, I mean just what if?
Sol: Then I’ll still have a better life than all of those that doubt.
May: Wait a minute, are you telling me that you prefer God to the truth?
Sol: If necessary I will always choose God over truth.
Next up: If necessary I will always choose philosophy over truth
Professor Levy [voiceover]: But we must always remember that we, when we are born, we need a great deal of love in order to persuade us to stay in life. Once we get that love it usually lasts us. But the universe is a pretty cold place. It’s we who invest it with our feelings. And, under certain conditions, we feel that the thing isn’t worth it any more.
And, no, not just philosophically.
Clifford [to Halley after Professor Levy’s demise]: He left a note. He left a simple little note that said “I’ve gone out the window.” This is a major intellectual and he leaves a note that says “I’ve gone out the window.” He’s a role-model. You’d think he’d leave a decent note.
What's the most decent note you've ever come across? Or will that be your own?
Judah: I believe in God, Miriam. Because without God, the world’s a cesspool.
The world is a cesspool so God must exist?
Judah: …and after the awful deed is done, he finds that he’s plagued by deep-rooted guilt. Little sparks of his religious background which he’d rejected are suddenly stirred up. He hears his father’s voice. He imagines that God is watching his every move. Suddenly, it’s not an empty universe at all, but a just and moral one, and he’s violated it. Now, he’s panic-stricken. He’s on the verge of a mental collapse-an inch away from confessing the whole thing to the police. And then one morning, he awakens. The sun is shining, his family is around him and mysteriously, the crisis has lifted. He takes his family on a vacation to Europe and as the months pass, he finds he’s not punished. In fact, he prospers. The killing gets attributed to another person-a drifter who has a number of other murders to his credit, so I mean, what the hell? One more doesn’t even matter. Now he’s scott-free. His life is completely back to normal. Back to his protected world of wealth and privilege.
Clifford: Yeah, but can he ever really do back?
Judah: Well, people carry sins around with them. Oh, maybe once in a while he has a bad moment…but then in time it all fades.
Clifford: Yeah, but now his worst beliefs are realized.
Judah: Well, I said it was a chilling story.
Next up: Judah and Judgment Day?
With God though, there’s the part about after we die. There’s the part about Sin and Hell and Devine Justice.
Judah: In reality, we rationalize, we deny, or we couldn’t go on living.
Clifford: Here’s what I would do. I would have him turn himself in because then your story assumes tragic proportions because in the absense of a God he’s forced to assume that responsibility himself. Then you have tragedy.
Judah: But that’s fiction, that’s movies. You’ve seen too many movies. I’m talking about reality. I mean if you want a happy ending you should go see a Hollywood movie.
Or broach it here with an objectivist.
Professor Levy [voiceover]: We are all faced throughout our lives with agonizing decisions. Moral choices. Some are on a grand scale. Most of these choices are on lesser points. But! We define ourselves by the choices we have made. We are in fact the sum total of our choices. Events unfold so unpredictably, so unfairly, human happiness does not seem to have been included, in the design of creation. It is only we, with our capacity to love, that give meaning to the indifferent universe. And yet, most human beings seem to have the ability to keep trying, and even to find joy from simple things like their family, their work, and from the hope that future generations might understand more.
It’s the same ending Allen often opts for. But then what other one is there in a world without God?
[in an imagined conversation]
Ben: It’s a human life. You don’t think God sees?
Judah: God is a luxury I can’t afford.
Ben: Now you’re talking like your brother Jack.
Judah: Jack lives in the real world. You live in the kingdom of heaven. I’d managed to keep free of that real world but suddenly it’s found me.
Ben: You fool around with her for your pleasure and then when you think its enough you sweep her under the rug.
Judah: There’s no other solution but Jack’s, Ben. I push one button and I can sleep at nights.
Ben: But the law, Judah. Without the law, it’s all darkness.
Judah: You sound like my father. What good is the law if it prevents me from receiving justice? Is just justice? Is this what I deserve?
So, who won?
Judah: It’s pure evil, Jack! A man kills for money and he doesn’t even know his victims!
Ah, the Benjamin Buttonman Syndrome.
Man: What are you saying, May? There’s no morality anywhere in the whole world?
May: For those who want morality, there’s morality. Nothing’s han[ed down in stone.
Woman: Sol’s kind of faith is a gift. It’s like an ear for music, or the talent to draw. He believes. You can use logic on him and he still believes.
Man: Must everything be logical?
Judah: And if a man commits a crime, if he…if he kills…
Sol: One way or another he will be punished.
Man: If he’s caught, Sol.
Sol: If he’s not, that which originates from a black deed will blossom in a foul manner.
Man: You’re relying too heavily on the Bible.
Sol: No, no, no. Whether it’s the Old Testament or Shakespeare, murder will out.
Judah: Who said anything about murder?
Sol: You did.
Judah: Did I?
May: And I say, if he can do it and get away with it and he chooses not to be bothered by the ethics, then he’s home free. Remember, history is written by the winners.
Man: And if all your faith is wrong, Sol, I mean just what if?
Sol: Then I’ll still have a better life than all of those that doubt.
May: Wait a minute, are you telling me that you prefer God to the truth?
Sol: If necessary I will always choose God over truth.
Next up: If necessary I will always choose philosophy over truth
Professor Levy [voiceover]: But we must always remember that we, when we are born, we need a great deal of love in order to persuade us to stay in life. Once we get that love it usually lasts us. But the universe is a pretty cold place. It’s we who invest it with our feelings. And, under certain conditions, we feel that the thing isn’t worth it any more.
And, no, not just philosophically.
Clifford [to Halley after Professor Levy’s demise]: He left a note. He left a simple little note that said “I’ve gone out the window.” This is a major intellectual and he leaves a note that says “I’ve gone out the window.” He’s a role-model. You’d think he’d leave a decent note.
What's the most decent note you've ever come across? Or will that be your own?
Judah: I believe in God, Miriam. Because without God, the world’s a cesspool.
The world is a cesspool so God must exist?
Judah: …and after the awful deed is done, he finds that he’s plagued by deep-rooted guilt. Little sparks of his religious background which he’d rejected are suddenly stirred up. He hears his father’s voice. He imagines that God is watching his every move. Suddenly, it’s not an empty universe at all, but a just and moral one, and he’s violated it. Now, he’s panic-stricken. He’s on the verge of a mental collapse-an inch away from confessing the whole thing to the police. And then one morning, he awakens. The sun is shining, his family is around him and mysteriously, the crisis has lifted. He takes his family on a vacation to Europe and as the months pass, he finds he’s not punished. In fact, he prospers. The killing gets attributed to another person-a drifter who has a number of other murders to his credit, so I mean, what the hell? One more doesn’t even matter. Now he’s scott-free. His life is completely back to normal. Back to his protected world of wealth and privilege.
Clifford: Yeah, but can he ever really do back?
Judah: Well, people carry sins around with them. Oh, maybe once in a while he has a bad moment…but then in time it all fades.
Clifford: Yeah, but now his worst beliefs are realized.
Judah: Well, I said it was a chilling story.
Next up: Judah and Judgment Day?
With God though, there’s the part about after we die. There’s the part about Sin and Hell and Devine Justice.
Judah: In reality, we rationalize, we deny, or we couldn’t go on living.
Clifford: Here’s what I would do. I would have him turn himself in because then your story assumes tragic proportions because in the absense of a God he’s forced to assume that responsibility himself. Then you have tragedy.
Judah: But that’s fiction, that’s movies. You’ve seen too many movies. I’m talking about reality. I mean if you want a happy ending you should go see a Hollywood movie.
Or broach it here with an objectivist.
Professor Levy [voiceover]: We are all faced throughout our lives with agonizing decisions. Moral choices. Some are on a grand scale. Most of these choices are on lesser points. But! We define ourselves by the choices we have made. We are in fact the sum total of our choices. Events unfold so unpredictably, so unfairly, human happiness does not seem to have been included, in the design of creation. It is only we, with our capacity to love, that give meaning to the indifferent universe. And yet, most human beings seem to have the ability to keep trying, and even to find joy from simple things like their family, their work, and from the hope that future generations might understand more.
It’s the same ending Allen often opts for. But then what other one is there in a world without God?
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Giles De’ath?
Well, at least we’re off to a good start.
He is the consumate intellectual. There is art and “culture”. And there are words piled up aesthetically into sublime ideas. And then there is everything else.
But among all “else” there is the flesh. And he is smitten. And, apparently, this is how it works for gay folks who still live in the 19th century.
Come on, lots of us have these vicarious “relationships”. We see someone up on the screen and the fantasies begin. And they play themselves out right up to the moment he/she opens his/her mouth and says something. Then we rationalize. They aren’t like that in “real life”. They are forced to be these cartoon characters because that’s the only stuff “the industry” makes. And even if they aren’t all that much like us “in reality” once we spend some time with them we can turn them around. What’s really important is that “in the flesh” they turn us on and we want them.
Not entirely sure why but it all sort of reminds me of…Lolita?
Love and Death on Long Island.
Giles [voiceover]: It is so difficult to know where I should begin, especially when, unlike you, I already know the ending. But let us say that this story began with the end of another far, far from the surf of Long Island. For many years, I had absolutely no public life. I had said, “No,” to interviews so often, it was widely regarded as my forte. Then, just once – on impulse – I said, “Yes.”
Ah, that deep down inside him Intrinsic Self!
Giles [aloud in the theater]: “This isn’t EM Forster.”
Let's try that here.
While we're still around?
Taxi Driver: The sign says “no smoking.”
Giles: No, the sign says “thank you for not smoking.” As I am smoking, I don’t expect to be thanked.
Try that yourself.
An imagined Quiz Master: And what is your chosen specialized subject?
Giles: The life and work of Ronnie Bostock.
Quiz Master: You have two minutes on the life and work of Ronnie Bostock, starting…now. Ronnie Bostock was born in Southern California but where does he live now?
Giles: Chesterton, Long Island.
Quiz Master: Correct. What is the name of the dog which features prominently in his publicity stills?
Giles: Strider.
Quiz Master: Correct. What is Ronnie Bostock’s favorite reading material?
Giles: Stephen King and science fiction.
Quiz Master: Correct. For what does Ronnie have a self-confessed weakness?
Giles: Pizza?
Quiz Master: Yes. I’ll accept that. It’s actually pizza with extra anchovies. Under what circumstances would Ronnie do a nude scene?
Giles: If it were tasteful…
Quiz Master: And?
Giles: …essential to the plot.
Quiz Master: Correct. Why was he not cast in the original Hotpants College?
Giles: Uh, too young?
Quiz Master: No. He was unable…to break his contract with the sitcom Home Is Where The Heart Is. What is Ronnie’s favorite kind of training shoe and why?
Giles: Reeboks, because British stuff is cool.
Quiz Master: Correct. With which of his rock idols was he recently photographed?
Giles: Axl Rose.
Quiz Master: Correct. Ronnie claims to like nothing better than hanging out with the guys. What exactly do these “guys” mean to him?
Giles: I wonder…
Just out of curiosity, who is the Quiz Master here?
Giles: If one has to have a theme, Henry, it would be the discovery of beauty where no one ever thought of looking for it.
Maybe a new theme here might save us!
Giles [as a lecturer]: So, the largely unrecognized art of film acting depends entirely on the ability of the actor to make everything about himself seem equally permanent. When, thus, an actor is called upon to smile, he must then try to select a smile from a collection – a repertoire – a whole file of smiles, as it were. Naive, rueful, sly, sarcastic…and so on.
Or, sure:
Giles [looking at himself in the mirror]: Dear God, this is ridiculous.
Trust me: it get's a lot worse.
Giles: In Europe, we have a much stronger tradition of work with what you call a message. That is, after all, why I’ve been persuaded to write my first screenplay. Yes, if Tex Mex had been, say, German about the plight of the exploited Gastarbeiters, it would have met with a far greater success. It probably would have made less money than Hotpants, but in Europe we’re not necessarily interested in that kind of a success, not when a film can change the way people think. And that, Ronnie, is why I write. It’s also why you act, although you may not yet know it.
The equivalent of that here? Flitting from clound to cloud.
Giles: Ronnie, there is nothing more solitary than an artist’s life. No doubt you’ll find that out for yourself. Painfully, perhaps. One yearns for solace without quite knowing where to look for it. But I found it in you.
Ronnie: Oh–That’s great.
Giles: Ronnie, I have another confession to make. I brought you here not to say good-bye, but to make you an offer.
Ronnie: An offer?
Giles: I am prepared to devote myself to your career.
Ronnie: Wow, Giles, I, uh–I’m honored. I don’t know what to say. You got to come out west. We can start to work on something.
Giles: No, Ronnie, forget Los Angeles. Put it behind you. Your future lies in Europe.
Ronnie: Giles, I gotta take things one step at a time. Aud would love to go back to Europe and do more work. It would be cool to spend time there–
Giles: “Cool”? I’m talking about a turning point in your life!
Being "cool" here.
While we still can?
Giles: Listen to me, Ronnie. In Europe, it is often the case that a–a young man benefits from the–the wisdom and the experience of an elder. Why, there’s almost a tradition of such friendships. Cocteau and Radiguet. Uh, Verlaine, Rimbaud.
Ronnie: Rambo?
Giles: Arthur Rimbaud, French poet. He…He was Paul Verlaine’s lover.
Hint, hint!
Giles [voiceover in a fax to Ronnie]: But what of you my darling? For no one on earth knows you better than I do. And if you’ve read thus far, I know you’ll never bring yourself to destroy this letter, nor will you ever show it to anyone else. And it will gradually dawn on you that your life might have taken a very different course had you simply been able to open your heart to another. And you’ll often return to this letter. You’ll read it again and again in the years to come until you no longer have to read what you know by heart. And you’ll cherish it as a source of pride in the face of an uncaring world.
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
Well, at least we’re off to a good start.
He is the consumate intellectual. There is art and “culture”. And there are words piled up aesthetically into sublime ideas. And then there is everything else.
But among all “else” there is the flesh. And he is smitten. And, apparently, this is how it works for gay folks who still live in the 19th century.
Come on, lots of us have these vicarious “relationships”. We see someone up on the screen and the fantasies begin. And they play themselves out right up to the moment he/she opens his/her mouth and says something. Then we rationalize. They aren’t like that in “real life”. They are forced to be these cartoon characters because that’s the only stuff “the industry” makes. And even if they aren’t all that much like us “in reality” once we spend some time with them we can turn them around. What’s really important is that “in the flesh” they turn us on and we want them.
Not entirely sure why but it all sort of reminds me of…Lolita?
Love and Death on Long Island.
Giles [voiceover]: It is so difficult to know where I should begin, especially when, unlike you, I already know the ending. But let us say that this story began with the end of another far, far from the surf of Long Island. For many years, I had absolutely no public life. I had said, “No,” to interviews so often, it was widely regarded as my forte. Then, just once – on impulse – I said, “Yes.”
Ah, that deep down inside him Intrinsic Self!
Giles [aloud in the theater]: “This isn’t EM Forster.”
Let's try that here.
While we're still around?
Taxi Driver: The sign says “no smoking.”
Giles: No, the sign says “thank you for not smoking.” As I am smoking, I don’t expect to be thanked.
Try that yourself.
An imagined Quiz Master: And what is your chosen specialized subject?
Giles: The life and work of Ronnie Bostock.
Quiz Master: You have two minutes on the life and work of Ronnie Bostock, starting…now. Ronnie Bostock was born in Southern California but where does he live now?
Giles: Chesterton, Long Island.
Quiz Master: Correct. What is the name of the dog which features prominently in his publicity stills?
Giles: Strider.
Quiz Master: Correct. What is Ronnie Bostock’s favorite reading material?
Giles: Stephen King and science fiction.
Quiz Master: Correct. For what does Ronnie have a self-confessed weakness?
Giles: Pizza?
Quiz Master: Yes. I’ll accept that. It’s actually pizza with extra anchovies. Under what circumstances would Ronnie do a nude scene?
Giles: If it were tasteful…
Quiz Master: And?
Giles: …essential to the plot.
Quiz Master: Correct. Why was he not cast in the original Hotpants College?
Giles: Uh, too young?
Quiz Master: No. He was unable…to break his contract with the sitcom Home Is Where The Heart Is. What is Ronnie’s favorite kind of training shoe and why?
Giles: Reeboks, because British stuff is cool.
Quiz Master: Correct. With which of his rock idols was he recently photographed?
Giles: Axl Rose.
Quiz Master: Correct. Ronnie claims to like nothing better than hanging out with the guys. What exactly do these “guys” mean to him?
Giles: I wonder…
Just out of curiosity, who is the Quiz Master here?
Giles: If one has to have a theme, Henry, it would be the discovery of beauty where no one ever thought of looking for it.
Maybe a new theme here might save us!
Giles [as a lecturer]: So, the largely unrecognized art of film acting depends entirely on the ability of the actor to make everything about himself seem equally permanent. When, thus, an actor is called upon to smile, he must then try to select a smile from a collection – a repertoire – a whole file of smiles, as it were. Naive, rueful, sly, sarcastic…and so on.
Or, sure:
Giles [looking at himself in the mirror]: Dear God, this is ridiculous.
Trust me: it get's a lot worse.
Giles: In Europe, we have a much stronger tradition of work with what you call a message. That is, after all, why I’ve been persuaded to write my first screenplay. Yes, if Tex Mex had been, say, German about the plight of the exploited Gastarbeiters, it would have met with a far greater success. It probably would have made less money than Hotpants, but in Europe we’re not necessarily interested in that kind of a success, not when a film can change the way people think. And that, Ronnie, is why I write. It’s also why you act, although you may not yet know it.
The equivalent of that here? Flitting from clound to cloud.
Giles: Ronnie, there is nothing more solitary than an artist’s life. No doubt you’ll find that out for yourself. Painfully, perhaps. One yearns for solace without quite knowing where to look for it. But I found it in you.
Ronnie: Oh–That’s great.
Giles: Ronnie, I have another confession to make. I brought you here not to say good-bye, but to make you an offer.
Ronnie: An offer?
Giles: I am prepared to devote myself to your career.
Ronnie: Wow, Giles, I, uh–I’m honored. I don’t know what to say. You got to come out west. We can start to work on something.
Giles: No, Ronnie, forget Los Angeles. Put it behind you. Your future lies in Europe.
Ronnie: Giles, I gotta take things one step at a time. Aud would love to go back to Europe and do more work. It would be cool to spend time there–
Giles: “Cool”? I’m talking about a turning point in your life!
Being "cool" here.
While we still can?
Giles: Listen to me, Ronnie. In Europe, it is often the case that a–a young man benefits from the–the wisdom and the experience of an elder. Why, there’s almost a tradition of such friendships. Cocteau and Radiguet. Uh, Verlaine, Rimbaud.
Ronnie: Rambo?
Giles: Arthur Rimbaud, French poet. He…He was Paul Verlaine’s lover.
Hint, hint!
Giles [voiceover in a fax to Ronnie]: But what of you my darling? For no one on earth knows you better than I do. And if you’ve read thus far, I know you’ll never bring yourself to destroy this letter, nor will you ever show it to anyone else. And it will gradually dawn on you that your life might have taken a very different course had you simply been able to open your heart to another. And you’ll often return to this letter. You’ll read it again and again in the years to come until you no longer have to read what you know by heart. And you’ll cherish it as a source of pride in the face of an uncaring world.
Unless, of course, he's wrong.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Aldous Huxley from Brave New World
Words can be like X-rays if you use them properly – they’ll go through anything. You read and you’re pierced.
You know the ones.
But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin.
Of course, eventually, most settle for...or cling to...comfort.
If one's different, one's bound to be lonely.
Me? Alone, for sure. But never lonely.
One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them.
Unless, of course, you were conditioned to believe that.
Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted.
Like, say, the Philosophy Now Forum?
“All right then," said the savage defiantly, I'm claiming the right to be unhappy."
"Not to mention the right to grow old and ugly and impotent; the right to have syphilis and cancer; the right to have too little to eat, the right to be lousy; the right to live in constant apprehension of what may happen tomorrow; the right to catch typhoid; the right to be tortured by unspeakable pains of every kind."
There was a long silence.
"I claim them all," said the Savage at last.
Him too: https://youtu.be/qdxV2btupHo?si=q2JsH97rJnXVh7Hl
Words can be like X-rays if you use them properly – they’ll go through anything. You read and you’re pierced.
You know the ones.
But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin.
Of course, eventually, most settle for...or cling to...comfort.
If one's different, one's bound to be lonely.
Me? Alone, for sure. But never lonely.
One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them.
Unless, of course, you were conditioned to believe that.
Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted.
Like, say, the Philosophy Now Forum?
“All right then," said the savage defiantly, I'm claiming the right to be unhappy."
"Not to mention the right to grow old and ugly and impotent; the right to have syphilis and cancer; the right to have too little to eat, the right to be lousy; the right to live in constant apprehension of what may happen tomorrow; the right to catch typhoid; the right to be tortured by unspeakable pains of every kind."
There was a long silence.
"I claim them all," said the Savage at last.
Him too: https://youtu.be/qdxV2btupHo?si=q2JsH97rJnXVh7Hl
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Based on a true [and oh so familiar] story.
The names of the tragedies change like the names of the folks that made them names in the first place. But it always revolves around the part that libertarians and objectivists [among others] insist has little or nothing to do with real capitalism.
After all, if a company is befouling the water we drink or the food we eat or the air we breathe and people start to get sick and die we can just go out into the marketplace and get these things from a competitor. And we can always rely on the governmment to do the right thing when they get caught.
Erin is rather resourceful. She always seems to come up with a way to solve her problems. But, again, why in the world should someone be reduced to this in the richest nation on earth?
What’s crucial of course is not that a major corporation fucked up and people died. After all, it’s not like it was premeditated murder. It’s not like they meant to do it. What’s important is that over and over and over and over and over and over again the expression “profits before people” has very real [sometimes dire] consequences “out on the world”.
But claims were “settled”. And the criminal prosecutions? Where were they? Are any of these fuckers in jail?
This is a movie about emotion. Erin takes the lawsuit personally because she is absolutely outraged at what these “suits” did – destroyed lives! killed people! – and knew that they did and never gave a fuck about anything other than their own bottom line. Right up to the time they got caught.
But “the law” doesn’t revolve around this sort of reaction and never will.
And that’s before you get to the part about the money.
I always come back to this though: these folks killed people [and knew they did] and all that goes back and forth is money. Nobody goes to jail. It’s like all the mindnumbing pain and suffering the bankers caused [to millions] flushing the economy down the toilet and none of them were ever indicted for, say, conspiracy to commit fraud. Or, in Washington, for accepting bribes from the cronies on K Street?
On the other hand, I bet there are still some here who believe that Donald Trump will die in prison.
Erin Brockovich
Erin: Don’t make me beg. If it doesn’t work out, fire me…But please don’t make me beg.
Ed [after a long pause]: No benefits.
That's what he thinks.
Erin [at the moment that started it all]: I’m sorry. I just don’t see why you’re corresponding with PG&E about your medical problems in the first place.
Donna Jensen: Well, they paid for the doctor’s visit.
Erin: They did?
Donna Jensen: You bet. Paid for a checkup for the whole family. And not like with insurance where you pay and a year goes by and maybe you see some money. They just took care of it just like…
[snaps fingers]
Donna Jensen: …that. We never even saw a bill.
Erin: Wow. Why’d they do that?
Donna Jensen: Because of the chromium.
Erin: The what?
Donna Jensen: The chromium. Well, that’s what kicked this whole thing off.
Next up: all the stuff that never, ever gets kicked off.
Frankel: What kind of chromium is it?
Erin: There’s more than one kind?
Frankel: Yes. There’s straight-up chromium – does all kinds of good things for the body. There’s chrom 3, which is fairly benign, and then there’s chrom 6, hexavalent chromium, which, depending on the amounts, can be very harmful.
Erin: Harmful, like – how? What would you get?
Frankel: With repeated exposure to toxic levels – God, anything, really – from chronic headaches and nosebleeds to respiratory disease, liver failure, heart failure, reproductive failure, bone or organ deterioration – plus, of course, any type of cancer.
Erin: So that stuff – it kills people.
Frankel: Oh, yeah. Definitely. Highly toxic, highly carcinogenic. It also gets into your DNA so it very bad for your kids. Bad, bad stuff.
Next up: the equivalent of chromium here. And, no, not just the bots.
Frankel [to Erin]: Oh, and I wouldn’t advertise what you’re looking for if I were you…incriminating records have a way of disappearing when people smell trouble.
"The System" let's call it.
Erin: …so Donna gets this call from somebody at PG&E saying that a freeway’s gonna be built and they want to buy her house so they can make an off ramp for the plant…Meanwhile, the husband’s sick with Hodgkins and she’s in and out of the hospital with tumors - believing one thing has anything to do with the other.
Ed: Because PG&E told her about the chromium.
Erin: Get this - they held a seminar. They invited about two hundred residents from the area. They had it at the plant in this warehouse. They set up legal booths to tell them what their legal rights were. They had medical booths to tell them what their medical rights were…Telling them all about Chromium 3 and how it was good for you, when all the time they were using Chromium 6.
The Capitalist System let's call it.
Ed: What makes you think you can just walk in there and take whatever you want?
Erin: They’re called boobs, Ed.
Among other things: https://us.curvykate.com/blogs/news/101-words-for-boobs
The names of the tragedies change like the names of the folks that made them names in the first place. But it always revolves around the part that libertarians and objectivists [among others] insist has little or nothing to do with real capitalism.
After all, if a company is befouling the water we drink or the food we eat or the air we breathe and people start to get sick and die we can just go out into the marketplace and get these things from a competitor. And we can always rely on the governmment to do the right thing when they get caught.
Erin is rather resourceful. She always seems to come up with a way to solve her problems. But, again, why in the world should someone be reduced to this in the richest nation on earth?
What’s crucial of course is not that a major corporation fucked up and people died. After all, it’s not like it was premeditated murder. It’s not like they meant to do it. What’s important is that over and over and over and over and over and over again the expression “profits before people” has very real [sometimes dire] consequences “out on the world”.
But claims were “settled”. And the criminal prosecutions? Where were they? Are any of these fuckers in jail?
This is a movie about emotion. Erin takes the lawsuit personally because she is absolutely outraged at what these “suits” did – destroyed lives! killed people! – and knew that they did and never gave a fuck about anything other than their own bottom line. Right up to the time they got caught.
But “the law” doesn’t revolve around this sort of reaction and never will.
And that’s before you get to the part about the money.
I always come back to this though: these folks killed people [and knew they did] and all that goes back and forth is money. Nobody goes to jail. It’s like all the mindnumbing pain and suffering the bankers caused [to millions] flushing the economy down the toilet and none of them were ever indicted for, say, conspiracy to commit fraud. Or, in Washington, for accepting bribes from the cronies on K Street?
On the other hand, I bet there are still some here who believe that Donald Trump will die in prison.
Erin Brockovich
Erin: Don’t make me beg. If it doesn’t work out, fire me…But please don’t make me beg.
Ed [after a long pause]: No benefits.
That's what he thinks.
Erin [at the moment that started it all]: I’m sorry. I just don’t see why you’re corresponding with PG&E about your medical problems in the first place.
Donna Jensen: Well, they paid for the doctor’s visit.
Erin: They did?
Donna Jensen: You bet. Paid for a checkup for the whole family. And not like with insurance where you pay and a year goes by and maybe you see some money. They just took care of it just like…
[snaps fingers]
Donna Jensen: …that. We never even saw a bill.
Erin: Wow. Why’d they do that?
Donna Jensen: Because of the chromium.
Erin: The what?
Donna Jensen: The chromium. Well, that’s what kicked this whole thing off.
Next up: all the stuff that never, ever gets kicked off.
Frankel: What kind of chromium is it?
Erin: There’s more than one kind?
Frankel: Yes. There’s straight-up chromium – does all kinds of good things for the body. There’s chrom 3, which is fairly benign, and then there’s chrom 6, hexavalent chromium, which, depending on the amounts, can be very harmful.
Erin: Harmful, like – how? What would you get?
Frankel: With repeated exposure to toxic levels – God, anything, really – from chronic headaches and nosebleeds to respiratory disease, liver failure, heart failure, reproductive failure, bone or organ deterioration – plus, of course, any type of cancer.
Erin: So that stuff – it kills people.
Frankel: Oh, yeah. Definitely. Highly toxic, highly carcinogenic. It also gets into your DNA so it very bad for your kids. Bad, bad stuff.
Next up: the equivalent of chromium here. And, no, not just the bots.
Frankel [to Erin]: Oh, and I wouldn’t advertise what you’re looking for if I were you…incriminating records have a way of disappearing when people smell trouble.
"The System" let's call it.
Erin: …so Donna gets this call from somebody at PG&E saying that a freeway’s gonna be built and they want to buy her house so they can make an off ramp for the plant…Meanwhile, the husband’s sick with Hodgkins and she’s in and out of the hospital with tumors - believing one thing has anything to do with the other.
Ed: Because PG&E told her about the chromium.
Erin: Get this - they held a seminar. They invited about two hundred residents from the area. They had it at the plant in this warehouse. They set up legal booths to tell them what their legal rights were. They had medical booths to tell them what their medical rights were…Telling them all about Chromium 3 and how it was good for you, when all the time they were using Chromium 6.
The Capitalist System let's call it.
Ed: What makes you think you can just walk in there and take whatever you want?
Erin: They’re called boobs, Ed.
Among other things: https://us.curvykate.com/blogs/news/101-words-for-boobs
- iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Meaning
“To reread a book is to read a different book. The reader is different. The meaning is different.” Johnny Rich
More or less?
“The world just goes along. Nothing much matters, you know? I mean really matters. but then sometimes, just for a second, you get this grace, this belief that it does matter, a whole lot.” Lucia Berlin
Grace? Let's define it.
“Life was a revolving mystery, sometimes terrifying, sometimes maddening. But always provocative. Interesting. And although its meaning seemed beyond my grasp, it never seemed meaningless.” Christina Meldrum
Except that, essentially, it still might be.
“For Marx, the only thing that motivates humans is money. For Freud, it’s libido. And for Schopenhauer, it is the blind metaphysical will. All are horribly wrong. More than anything, man seeks meaning in his life. And in that meaning, he seeks superiority over others.” Abhaidev
Let's change that. You know, if that's even possible.
“I suppose therefore that all things I see are illusions; I believe that nothing has ever existed of everything my lying memory tells me. I think I have no senses. I believe that body, shape, extension, motion, location are functions. What is there then that can be taken as true? Perhaps only this one thing, that nothing at all is certain.” Rene Descartes
He thought this, therefore it's true?
“If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part.” Richard P. Feynman
Next up: you thought philosophy was certain.
“To reread a book is to read a different book. The reader is different. The meaning is different.” Johnny Rich
More or less?
“The world just goes along. Nothing much matters, you know? I mean really matters. but then sometimes, just for a second, you get this grace, this belief that it does matter, a whole lot.” Lucia Berlin
Grace? Let's define it.
“Life was a revolving mystery, sometimes terrifying, sometimes maddening. But always provocative. Interesting. And although its meaning seemed beyond my grasp, it never seemed meaningless.” Christina Meldrum
Except that, essentially, it still might be.
“For Marx, the only thing that motivates humans is money. For Freud, it’s libido. And for Schopenhauer, it is the blind metaphysical will. All are horribly wrong. More than anything, man seeks meaning in his life. And in that meaning, he seeks superiority over others.” Abhaidev
Let's change that. You know, if that's even possible.
“I suppose therefore that all things I see are illusions; I believe that nothing has ever existed of everything my lying memory tells me. I think I have no senses. I believe that body, shape, extension, motion, location are functions. What is there then that can be taken as true? Perhaps only this one thing, that nothing at all is certain.” Rene Descartes
He thought this, therefore it's true?
“If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part.” Richard P. Feynman
Next up: you thought philosophy was certain.
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Re: Quote of the day
Erin Brockovich
Donna: No. Hunh-uh, see, that’s not what the doctor said. He said one’s got absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Erin: Right, but – didn’t you say the doctor was paid by PG&E?
Pick one:
1] hint, hint
2] wink, wink
Baum: Mr. Masry, before you go off on some crusade, you might want to remember who it is you’re dealing with here. PG&E is a twenty-eight-billion-dollar corporation.
Ed (smiling, acting excited/greedy): Twenty-eight billion dollars! I didn’t know it was that much! WOW!
Lock them up! Lock them up!
Pete: If PG&E messed with our water, why would they bother saying anything about it to us? Why not just keep quiet about it?
Ed: To establish a statute of limitations. See, in a case like this, you only have a year from the time you first learn about the problem to file suit. So PG&E figures, we’ll let the cat out of the bag – tell the people the water’s not perfect; if we can ride out the year with no one suing, we’ll be in the clear forever.
The fucking system!
Ed:…and what the hell do you know about any of this anyway!? Something like this, Erin – it could take forever. They’re a huge corporation. They could bury us in paperwork for the next fifteen years. I’m just one guy with a private firm.
Erin: …who happens to know they poisoned people and lied about it.
Cue Michael Clayton.
Ed: This is a whole different ball game. A much bigger deal.
Erin: Kind of like David and what’s-his-name.
Ed: It’s kind of like David and what’s-his-name’s whole fucking family.
Not to mention all their cronies in Sacramento and Washington D.C.
Erin: Hey Scott, Tell me something. Does PG&E pay you to cover their ass, or do you just do it out of the kindness of your heart?
Scott: I don’t know what you’re talking about…
Erin: The fuck you don’t! Nobody calls me Pat-te, That heavy-breathing sicko that called the other night, could have only found out about me from you… People are dying, Scott, you’ve got document after document here telling you why, and you haven’t said one word. I wanna know… How the hell you sleep at night!
Like a baby, one suspects, of these folks.
Donna: No. Hunh-uh, see, that’s not what the doctor said. He said one’s got absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Erin: Right, but – didn’t you say the doctor was paid by PG&E?
Pick one:
1] hint, hint
2] wink, wink
Baum: Mr. Masry, before you go off on some crusade, you might want to remember who it is you’re dealing with here. PG&E is a twenty-eight-billion-dollar corporation.
Ed (smiling, acting excited/greedy): Twenty-eight billion dollars! I didn’t know it was that much! WOW!
Lock them up! Lock them up!
Pete: If PG&E messed with our water, why would they bother saying anything about it to us? Why not just keep quiet about it?
Ed: To establish a statute of limitations. See, in a case like this, you only have a year from the time you first learn about the problem to file suit. So PG&E figures, we’ll let the cat out of the bag – tell the people the water’s not perfect; if we can ride out the year with no one suing, we’ll be in the clear forever.
The fucking system!
Ed:…and what the hell do you know about any of this anyway!? Something like this, Erin – it could take forever. They’re a huge corporation. They could bury us in paperwork for the next fifteen years. I’m just one guy with a private firm.
Erin: …who happens to know they poisoned people and lied about it.
Cue Michael Clayton.
Ed: This is a whole different ball game. A much bigger deal.
Erin: Kind of like David and what’s-his-name.
Ed: It’s kind of like David and what’s-his-name’s whole fucking family.
Not to mention all their cronies in Sacramento and Washington D.C.
Erin: Hey Scott, Tell me something. Does PG&E pay you to cover their ass, or do you just do it out of the kindness of your heart?
Scott: I don’t know what you’re talking about…
Erin: The fuck you don’t! Nobody calls me Pat-te, That heavy-breathing sicko that called the other night, could have only found out about me from you… People are dying, Scott, you’ve got document after document here telling you why, and you haven’t said one word. I wanna know… How the hell you sleep at night!
Like a baby, one suspects, of these folks.
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Re: Quote of the day
Ludwig Wittgenstein
Children do not learn that books exist, that armchairs exist, etc.,etc. - they learn to fetch books, sit in armchairs, etc.,etc. Later, questions about the existence of things do of course arise, "Is there such a thing as a unicorn?" and so on. But such a question is possible only because as a rule no corresponding question presents itself. For how does one know how to set about satisfying oneself of the existence of unicorns? How did one learn the method for determining whether something exists or not?
In other words, many believe what comforts and consoles them psychologically...unicorns all the way up to God.
The philosophical I is not the man, not the human body or the human soul of which psychology treats, but the metaphysical subject, the limit - not a part of the world.
Of course, that's just plain commonsense these days, right?
At the basis of the whole modern view of the world lies the illusion that the so-called laws of nature are the explanations of natural phenomena. So people stop short at natural laws as at something unassailable, as did the ancients at God and Fate.
I know that I do, he snorted.
But the ancients were clearer, in so far as they recognized one clear conclusion, whereas in the modern system it should appear as though everything were explained.
One clear conclusion about what though?
Humor is not a mood but a way of looking at the world. It is correct to say that humor was stamped out in Nazi Germany, but that does not mean that people were not in good spirits, or anything of that sort, but something much deeper and more important.
Let's explore that distinction here.
Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said: this is a man, this is a house, etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then?
The birth of fArt?
Children do not learn that books exist, that armchairs exist, etc.,etc. - they learn to fetch books, sit in armchairs, etc.,etc. Later, questions about the existence of things do of course arise, "Is there such a thing as a unicorn?" and so on. But such a question is possible only because as a rule no corresponding question presents itself. For how does one know how to set about satisfying oneself of the existence of unicorns? How did one learn the method for determining whether something exists or not?
In other words, many believe what comforts and consoles them psychologically...unicorns all the way up to God.
The philosophical I is not the man, not the human body or the human soul of which psychology treats, but the metaphysical subject, the limit - not a part of the world.
Of course, that's just plain commonsense these days, right?
At the basis of the whole modern view of the world lies the illusion that the so-called laws of nature are the explanations of natural phenomena. So people stop short at natural laws as at something unassailable, as did the ancients at God and Fate.
I know that I do, he snorted.
But the ancients were clearer, in so far as they recognized one clear conclusion, whereas in the modern system it should appear as though everything were explained.
One clear conclusion about what though?
Humor is not a mood but a way of looking at the world. It is correct to say that humor was stamped out in Nazi Germany, but that does not mean that people were not in good spirits, or anything of that sort, but something much deeper and more important.
Let's explore that distinction here.
Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said: this is a man, this is a house, etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then?
The birth of fArt?
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Re: Quote of the day
Erin Brockovich
Ms. Sanchez [at the meeting with the PG & E lawyers]: Let’s be honest here. $20 million dollars is more money than these people have ever dreamed of.
Erin: Oh see, now that pisses me off. First of all, since the demur we have more than 400 plaintiffs and…let’s be honest, we all know there are more out there. They may not be the most sophisticated people but they do know how to divide and $20 million isn’t shit when you split it between them. Second of all, these people don’t dream about being rich. They dream about being able to watch their kids swim in a pool without worrying that they’ll have to have a hysterectomy at the age of twenty. Like Rosa Diaz, a client of ours. Or have their spine deteriorate, like Stan Blume, another client of ours. So before you come back here with another lame ass offer, I want you to think real hard about what your spine is worth, Mr. Walker. Or what you might expect someone to pay you for your uterus, Ms. Sanchez. Then you take out your calculator and you multiply that number by a hundred. Anything less than that is a waste of our time.
[Ms. Sanchez picks up a glass of water]
Erin: By the way, we had that water brought in specially for you folks. Came from a well in Hinkley.
Ms. Sanchez [Puts down the glass, without drinking]: I think this meeting is over.
Ed: Damn right it is.
Praise the Lord?
Charles Embry: Would it be important to you if I told you that when I worked at the Hinkley plant, I destroyed records?
Oh, yeah.
Charles Embry: My cousin passed away yesterday. He had kidney tumors, no colon. His intestines were eaten away. 41 years old. I’d see him over at the cooling towers wearing one of those doctor face masks. They’d be soaked in blood from the nosebleeds.
Note to the workers of the world: You're up!
Erin [to Kurt and Theresa]: Here are internal PG&E documents, all about the contamination. The one I like best says, and I’m paraphrasing here, but it says “yes, the water’s poisonous, but it’d be better for all involved if this matter wasn’t discussed with the neighbors”. It’s to the Hinkley station, from PG&E Headquarters. Stamped received, March, 1966.
Just another day at the office, let's call it.
Kurt: What… how did you do this?
Erin: Well, um, seeing as how I have no brains or legal expertise, and Ed here was losing all faith in the system, am I right?
Ed: Oh, yeah, completely. No faith, no faith…
Erin: I just went out there and performed sexual favors. Six hundred and thirty-four blow jobs in five days… I’m really quite tired.
Let's get back to those "boobs"...
Erin: Ya know why everyone thinks that all lawyers are back stabbing, blood sucking scum bags? Because they are! And I cannot believe you expect me to go out, leave my kids with strangers and get people to trust you with their lives while all the while you’re screwing me! You know, Ed, it’s not about the number! It’s about the way my work is valued in this firm…
[She looks at the two million dollar bonus check]
Ed: Like I was saying, I thought that the number you proposed was inappropriate, so I increased it.
[Turns to walk away and turns around to her]
Ed: Do they teach beauty queens how to apologize? Because you suck at it!
Erin [Long pause, after Ed has already left the office]: Uh, Ed… uh… thank you…
Justice?
Title card: The settlement awarded to the plaintiffs in Hinkley v. PG&E was the largest in a direct-action lawsuit in United States history.
Next up: Camp Lejeune.
Ms. Sanchez [at the meeting with the PG & E lawyers]: Let’s be honest here. $20 million dollars is more money than these people have ever dreamed of.
Erin: Oh see, now that pisses me off. First of all, since the demur we have more than 400 plaintiffs and…let’s be honest, we all know there are more out there. They may not be the most sophisticated people but they do know how to divide and $20 million isn’t shit when you split it between them. Second of all, these people don’t dream about being rich. They dream about being able to watch their kids swim in a pool without worrying that they’ll have to have a hysterectomy at the age of twenty. Like Rosa Diaz, a client of ours. Or have their spine deteriorate, like Stan Blume, another client of ours. So before you come back here with another lame ass offer, I want you to think real hard about what your spine is worth, Mr. Walker. Or what you might expect someone to pay you for your uterus, Ms. Sanchez. Then you take out your calculator and you multiply that number by a hundred. Anything less than that is a waste of our time.
[Ms. Sanchez picks up a glass of water]
Erin: By the way, we had that water brought in specially for you folks. Came from a well in Hinkley.
Ms. Sanchez [Puts down the glass, without drinking]: I think this meeting is over.
Ed: Damn right it is.
Praise the Lord?
Charles Embry: Would it be important to you if I told you that when I worked at the Hinkley plant, I destroyed records?
Oh, yeah.
Charles Embry: My cousin passed away yesterday. He had kidney tumors, no colon. His intestines were eaten away. 41 years old. I’d see him over at the cooling towers wearing one of those doctor face masks. They’d be soaked in blood from the nosebleeds.
Note to the workers of the world: You're up!
Erin [to Kurt and Theresa]: Here are internal PG&E documents, all about the contamination. The one I like best says, and I’m paraphrasing here, but it says “yes, the water’s poisonous, but it’d be better for all involved if this matter wasn’t discussed with the neighbors”. It’s to the Hinkley station, from PG&E Headquarters. Stamped received, March, 1966.
Just another day at the office, let's call it.
Kurt: What… how did you do this?
Erin: Well, um, seeing as how I have no brains or legal expertise, and Ed here was losing all faith in the system, am I right?
Ed: Oh, yeah, completely. No faith, no faith…
Erin: I just went out there and performed sexual favors. Six hundred and thirty-four blow jobs in five days… I’m really quite tired.
Let's get back to those "boobs"...
Erin: Ya know why everyone thinks that all lawyers are back stabbing, blood sucking scum bags? Because they are! And I cannot believe you expect me to go out, leave my kids with strangers and get people to trust you with their lives while all the while you’re screwing me! You know, Ed, it’s not about the number! It’s about the way my work is valued in this firm…
[She looks at the two million dollar bonus check]
Ed: Like I was saying, I thought that the number you proposed was inappropriate, so I increased it.
[Turns to walk away and turns around to her]
Ed: Do they teach beauty queens how to apologize? Because you suck at it!
Erin [Long pause, after Ed has already left the office]: Uh, Ed… uh… thank you…
Justice?
Title card: The settlement awarded to the plaintiffs in Hinkley v. PG&E was the largest in a direct-action lawsuit in United States history.
Next up: Camp Lejeune.
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Re: Quote of the day
Science
“It is easy to overlook this thought that life just is. As humans we are inclined to feel that life must have a point. We have plans and aspirations and desires. We want to take constant advantage of all the intoxicating existence we've been endowed with. But what's life to a lichen? Yet its impulse to exist, to be, is every bit as strong as ours—arguably even stronger. If I were told that I had to spend decades being a furry growth on a rock in the woods, I believe I would lose the will to go on. Lichens don't. Like virtually all living things, they will suffer any hardship, endure any insult, for a moment's additional existence. Life, in short, just wants to be. Bill Bryson
Do they know that? But that's the point right?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” Carl Sagan
And that certainly includes philosophy forums.
“Questions you cannot answer are usually far better for you than answers you cannot question.” Yuval Noah Harari
Define usually?
“It is a slightly arresting notion that if you were to pick yourself apart with tweezers, one atom at a time, you would produce a mound of fine atomic dust, none of which had ever been alive but all of which had once been you.” Bill Bryson
Slightly?
“The role played by time at the beginning of the universe is, I believe, the final key to removing the need for a Grand Designer, and revealing how the universe created itself. … Time itself must come to a stop. You can’t get to a time before the big bang, because there was no time before the big bang. We have finally found something that does not have a cause because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means there is no possibility of a creator because there is no time for a creator to have existed. Since time itself began at the moment of the Big Bang, it was an event that could not have been caused or created by anyone or anything. … So when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the edge of the Earth. The Earth is a sphere. It does not have an edge, so looking for it is a futile exercise.” Stephen W. Hawking
On the other hand: click?
“If the bee disappeared off the face of the earth, man would only have four years left to live.” Maurice Maeterlinck
Though I suspect that also includes women and children.
“It is easy to overlook this thought that life just is. As humans we are inclined to feel that life must have a point. We have plans and aspirations and desires. We want to take constant advantage of all the intoxicating existence we've been endowed with. But what's life to a lichen? Yet its impulse to exist, to be, is every bit as strong as ours—arguably even stronger. If I were told that I had to spend decades being a furry growth on a rock in the woods, I believe I would lose the will to go on. Lichens don't. Like virtually all living things, they will suffer any hardship, endure any insult, for a moment's additional existence. Life, in short, just wants to be. Bill Bryson
Do they know that? But that's the point right?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” Carl Sagan
And that certainly includes philosophy forums.
“Questions you cannot answer are usually far better for you than answers you cannot question.” Yuval Noah Harari
Define usually?
“It is a slightly arresting notion that if you were to pick yourself apart with tweezers, one atom at a time, you would produce a mound of fine atomic dust, none of which had ever been alive but all of which had once been you.” Bill Bryson
Slightly?
“The role played by time at the beginning of the universe is, I believe, the final key to removing the need for a Grand Designer, and revealing how the universe created itself. … Time itself must come to a stop. You can’t get to a time before the big bang, because there was no time before the big bang. We have finally found something that does not have a cause because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means there is no possibility of a creator because there is no time for a creator to have existed. Since time itself began at the moment of the Big Bang, it was an event that could not have been caused or created by anyone or anything. … So when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the edge of the Earth. The Earth is a sphere. It does not have an edge, so looking for it is a futile exercise.” Stephen W. Hawking
On the other hand: click?
“If the bee disappeared off the face of the earth, man would only have four years left to live.” Maurice Maeterlinck
Though I suspect that also includes women and children.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
After one smacks down the capitalists [above] he can then move on to the Communists. The lives of others? Indeed.
So, which one is the worst of all possible worlds?
As always: It depends on where you are at any particular place and time. And who you are.
Here though some of the government officials really do act out of idealistic conviction. The whole point [for them] is the triumph of socialism. When they go after enemies of the state the bottom line is not expressed in bulging wallets but in moral obligations.
And then there are the corrupt bastards. For them the bottom line revolves around the perks of power.
You have all of these people in the “artistic community” going right up to the line…but trying not to cross over it. But the line keeps changing depending on the will [or the whim] of the “big wigs”. There is much at stake but the bottom line here is always the same: different people have more at stake than others. In other words, a lot more to lose. Every point of view is unique however much some try to cram them all together.
All the listening/recording props used in the film are actual Stasi equipment on loan from museums and collectors. The props master had himself spent two years in a Stasi prison and insisted upon absolute authenticity down to the machine used at the end of the film to steam-open up to 600 letters per hour. IMDb
The Lives of Others [Das Leben der Anderen]
Title card: 1984, East Berlin. Glasnost is nowhere in sight. The population of the GRD is kept under strict control by the Stasi, the East German secret police. Its force of 100,000 employees and 200,000 informers safeguards the Dictatorship ot the Proletariat. It’s declared goal: “To know everything”.
Or else...
Student [at the Stasti academy]: Why keep him awake so long? It’s inhuman.
Wiesler [putting a mark next to his name]: An innocent prisoner will become more angry by the hour due to the injustice suffered. He will shout and rage. A guilty prisoner becomes more calm and quiet. Or he cries. He knows he’s there for a reason. The best way to establish guilt or innocence is non-stop interrogation.
So, how logical is that?
Wiesler [to Dreyman’s neighbor after she beomes aware that Stasi has wired his apartment]: Frau Meineke, one word of this to anyone, and Masha loses her spot at the university. Is that understood.
Frau Meineke: Yes.
Wiesler [to colleague]: Send Frau Menieke a gift for her cooperation.
Next up: "cooperation" here.
Wiesler [typing his report]: 11:04 p.m… Lazlo and CMS unwrap presents. Then presumably have intercourse.
I presumed that too.
Lt. Stigler: I’ve got a new one. So…Honecker comes into his office in the morning, opens the window, looks at the sun, and says…
[his friends look worried]
Lt. Stigler:… eh… what is it?
[he sees Wiesler and Grubitz sitting at the table]
Lt. Stigler: Oh, excuse me. That was… I’m just… I…
Grubitz [tries to put Stigler at ease]: No no no, please colleague. We can still laugh about our state officials. Don’t worry. I probably know it already anyway. Come on! Tell it.
Lt. Stigler [feeling more comfortable]: Well… Honecker, I mean…the General Secretary… sees the sun, and says, ‘Good morning dear sun!’…and the sun answered, ‘Good morning dear Erich!’ At afternoon Erich sees the sun again and says, ‘Good day dear sun’ And the sun says: ‘Good day dear Erich!’ After work Honecker goes back to the window and says, ‘Good evening dear sun!’ But the sun doesn’t answer! So he says again, ‘Good evening dear sun, what’s wrong?’ And the sun answered and said, ‘Oh, kiss my ass, I’m in the West now!’
Grubitz [becoming deadly serious]: Name? Rank? Department?
Lt. Stigler [frightened]: Me? Stigler, 2nd Lieutenant Alex Stigler. Department M.
Grubitz: I don’t need to tell you what this means for your career, what you just did.
Lt. Stigler [scared]: Please Lieutenant Colonel… I just…
Grubitz [angry]: You just mocked our party! That was political agitation! Surely just the tip of the iceberg! I am going to report this to the minister’s office.
[Grubitz starts laughing]
Grubitz: I was just kidding! Pretty good, huh? Yours was good too. But I’ve got a better one. What is the difference between Erich Honecker and a telephone?
[pauses]
Grubitz: Nothing! Hang up… try again. Hahaha!
From IMDb: The punchline of the joke is a play on the words ‘aufhängen’ and ‘neuwählen’. In terms of a telephone it means hang up and redial, respectively. In terms of politics it means hang somebody and elect someone new.
Georg [answering the phone]: Yes?
Wallner: Georg?
Georg: What’s up?
Wallner: Georg, it’s about Jerska. He hanged himself last night.
Another one bites the dust.
Uh, click?
So, which one is the worst of all possible worlds?
As always: It depends on where you are at any particular place and time. And who you are.
Here though some of the government officials really do act out of idealistic conviction. The whole point [for them] is the triumph of socialism. When they go after enemies of the state the bottom line is not expressed in bulging wallets but in moral obligations.
And then there are the corrupt bastards. For them the bottom line revolves around the perks of power.
You have all of these people in the “artistic community” going right up to the line…but trying not to cross over it. But the line keeps changing depending on the will [or the whim] of the “big wigs”. There is much at stake but the bottom line here is always the same: different people have more at stake than others. In other words, a lot more to lose. Every point of view is unique however much some try to cram them all together.
All the listening/recording props used in the film are actual Stasi equipment on loan from museums and collectors. The props master had himself spent two years in a Stasi prison and insisted upon absolute authenticity down to the machine used at the end of the film to steam-open up to 600 letters per hour. IMDb
The Lives of Others [Das Leben der Anderen]
Title card: 1984, East Berlin. Glasnost is nowhere in sight. The population of the GRD is kept under strict control by the Stasi, the East German secret police. Its force of 100,000 employees and 200,000 informers safeguards the Dictatorship ot the Proletariat. It’s declared goal: “To know everything”.
Or else...
Student [at the Stasti academy]: Why keep him awake so long? It’s inhuman.
Wiesler [putting a mark next to his name]: An innocent prisoner will become more angry by the hour due to the injustice suffered. He will shout and rage. A guilty prisoner becomes more calm and quiet. Or he cries. He knows he’s there for a reason. The best way to establish guilt or innocence is non-stop interrogation.
So, how logical is that?
Wiesler [to Dreyman’s neighbor after she beomes aware that Stasi has wired his apartment]: Frau Meineke, one word of this to anyone, and Masha loses her spot at the university. Is that understood.
Frau Meineke: Yes.
Wiesler [to colleague]: Send Frau Menieke a gift for her cooperation.
Next up: "cooperation" here.
Wiesler [typing his report]: 11:04 p.m… Lazlo and CMS unwrap presents. Then presumably have intercourse.
I presumed that too.
Lt. Stigler: I’ve got a new one. So…Honecker comes into his office in the morning, opens the window, looks at the sun, and says…
[his friends look worried]
Lt. Stigler:… eh… what is it?
[he sees Wiesler and Grubitz sitting at the table]
Lt. Stigler: Oh, excuse me. That was… I’m just… I…
Grubitz [tries to put Stigler at ease]: No no no, please colleague. We can still laugh about our state officials. Don’t worry. I probably know it already anyway. Come on! Tell it.
Lt. Stigler [feeling more comfortable]: Well… Honecker, I mean…the General Secretary… sees the sun, and says, ‘Good morning dear sun!’…and the sun answered, ‘Good morning dear Erich!’ At afternoon Erich sees the sun again and says, ‘Good day dear sun’ And the sun says: ‘Good day dear Erich!’ After work Honecker goes back to the window and says, ‘Good evening dear sun!’ But the sun doesn’t answer! So he says again, ‘Good evening dear sun, what’s wrong?’ And the sun answered and said, ‘Oh, kiss my ass, I’m in the West now!’
Grubitz [becoming deadly serious]: Name? Rank? Department?
Lt. Stigler [frightened]: Me? Stigler, 2nd Lieutenant Alex Stigler. Department M.
Grubitz: I don’t need to tell you what this means for your career, what you just did.
Lt. Stigler [scared]: Please Lieutenant Colonel… I just…
Grubitz [angry]: You just mocked our party! That was political agitation! Surely just the tip of the iceberg! I am going to report this to the minister’s office.
[Grubitz starts laughing]
Grubitz: I was just kidding! Pretty good, huh? Yours was good too. But I’ve got a better one. What is the difference between Erich Honecker and a telephone?
[pauses]
Grubitz: Nothing! Hang up… try again. Hahaha!
From IMDb: The punchline of the joke is a play on the words ‘aufhängen’ and ‘neuwählen’. In terms of a telephone it means hang up and redial, respectively. In terms of politics it means hang somebody and elect someone new.
Georg [answering the phone]: Yes?
Wallner: Georg?
Georg: What’s up?
Wallner: Georg, it’s about Jerska. He hanged himself last night.
Another one bites the dust.
Uh, click?
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
God
“The paradox in Christian truth is invariably due to the fact that it is the truth that exists for God. The standard of measure and the end is superhuman; and there is only one relationship possible: faith." Søren Kierkegaard
And, over and again -- historically -- the folly of it.
“To question the world around us and all its complexities is not blasphamy, but simply using the mind God gave us for its intended purpous. God is an artist. Artist do not create to have someone just glance and say "That is pretty." Artist want viewers to look closer, deeper--to really see what they have created--not just glance.” Cristina Marrero
No, really, what if this does describe God? Even I might get in if that's the case.
“I will confess to you that, you know, one of the statements that’s been attributed to me that I’m sort of proud of is somebody said, you know, “What do we do about Osama bin Laden?” And they asked me, “Can we forgive him?” And I said, “Forgiveness is up to God. I just hope we hurry up the meeting.” And that’s the way I feel about him, really." Norman Schwarzkopf
Cue this guy: https://youtu.be/xronNwS16xc?si=eQZ0ElEas9zQkMcg
Next up: https://youtu.be/UpvAfLSkPaU?si=O0OEJzBgMx5FvAM-
“Each mind conceives God in its own way. There may be as many variation of the God figure as there are people in the world”. Bangambiki Habyarimana
Next up: uh, all the other planets?
“Now life is given in exchange for pain and fear, and that's the basis of the whole deception. Now man is still not what he should be. There will e a new man, happy and proud. Whoever doesn't care whether he lives or doesn't live, he himself will be God. And that other God will no longer be.'
'So, that other God does exist, in your opinion?'
'He doesn't exist, but he does exist. In the stone there' no pain, but in the fear of the stone there is pain. God is the pain of the fear of death. Whoever conquers pain and fear will himself become God.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
How are people actually able to convince themselves of fantastic things like this? And, more to the point, why can't I?
“It used to be thought that Hell was a lack of God, but Hell is a lack of death.” Tom Sweterlitsch
Like that will change anything.
“The paradox in Christian truth is invariably due to the fact that it is the truth that exists for God. The standard of measure and the end is superhuman; and there is only one relationship possible: faith." Søren Kierkegaard
And, over and again -- historically -- the folly of it.
“To question the world around us and all its complexities is not blasphamy, but simply using the mind God gave us for its intended purpous. God is an artist. Artist do not create to have someone just glance and say "That is pretty." Artist want viewers to look closer, deeper--to really see what they have created--not just glance.” Cristina Marrero
No, really, what if this does describe God? Even I might get in if that's the case.
“I will confess to you that, you know, one of the statements that’s been attributed to me that I’m sort of proud of is somebody said, you know, “What do we do about Osama bin Laden?” And they asked me, “Can we forgive him?” And I said, “Forgiveness is up to God. I just hope we hurry up the meeting.” And that’s the way I feel about him, really." Norman Schwarzkopf
Cue this guy: https://youtu.be/xronNwS16xc?si=eQZ0ElEas9zQkMcg
Next up: https://youtu.be/UpvAfLSkPaU?si=O0OEJzBgMx5FvAM-
“Each mind conceives God in its own way. There may be as many variation of the God figure as there are people in the world”. Bangambiki Habyarimana
Next up: uh, all the other planets?
“Now life is given in exchange for pain and fear, and that's the basis of the whole deception. Now man is still not what he should be. There will e a new man, happy and proud. Whoever doesn't care whether he lives or doesn't live, he himself will be God. And that other God will no longer be.'
'So, that other God does exist, in your opinion?'
'He doesn't exist, but he does exist. In the stone there' no pain, but in the fear of the stone there is pain. God is the pain of the fear of death. Whoever conquers pain and fear will himself become God.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
How are people actually able to convince themselves of fantastic things like this? And, more to the point, why can't I?
“It used to be thought that Hell was a lack of God, but Hell is a lack of death.” Tom Sweterlitsch
Like that will change anything.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
The Lives of Others [Das Leben der Anderen]
Georg [to Christa]: You know what Lenin said about Beethoven’s Apassionata? He said, “if I keep listening to it, I won’t finish the revolution.” Can anyone who has heard this music – truly heard it – really be a bad person?
Heads he was, tails he wasn't?
[Wiesler enters the elevator at his apartment building. A young boy with a ball joins him]
Boy: Are you really with the Stasi?
Wiesler: Do you even know what the Stasi is?
Boy: Yes. They’re bad men who put people in prison, says my dad.
Wiesler: I see. What is the name of your…
[pauses]
Boy: My what?
Wiesler [thinks for a few more seconds]: …ball. What’s the name of your ball?
Boy: You’re funny. Balls don’t have names.
Too close to call?
Georg [of Hempf]: You are a great artist. I know that. Your audience knows that. You don’t need him. Stay here. Don’t go to him.
Christa: No? Don’t I need him? Don’t I need this whole system? And what about you? Then you don’t need it either. Or need it even less. But you get in bed with them, too. Why do you do it? Because they can destroy you, too, despite your talent and your faith. Because they decide what we play, who is to act, and who can direct. You don’t want to end up like Jerska. And neither do I.
And neither would...you?
Georg [voiceover]: The state office for statistics on Hans-Beimler street counts everything; knows everything: how many pairs of shoes I buy a year: 2.3, how many books I read a year: 3.2 and how many students graduate with perfect marks: 6,347. But there’s one statistic that isn’t collected there, perhaps because such numbers cause even paper-pushers pain: and that is the suicide rate.
The lucky ones?
Georg ]voiceover]: In 1977, our country stopped counting suicides. They called them “self-murderers.”…When we stopped counting, only one country in Europe drove more people to their death: Hungary.
Start here: https://youtu.be/Sbsg_lqqKxk?si=WN3DcUvEqbadWhR_
Grubitz [to Wiesler]: I have to show you something: “Prison Conditions for Subversive Artists: Based on Character Profile”. Pretty scientific, eh? And look at this: “Dissertation Supervisor, A. Grubitz”. That’s great, isn’t it? I only gave him a B. They shouldn’t think getting a doctorate with me is easy. But his is first-class. Did you know that there are just five types of artists? Your guy, Dreyman, is a Type 4, a “hysterical anthropocentrist.” Can’t bear being alone, always talking, needing friends. That type should never be brought to trial. They thrive on that. Temporary detention is the best way to deal with them. Complete isolation and no set release date. No human contact the whole time, not even with the guards. Good treatment, no harassment, no abuse, no scandals, nothing they could write about later. After 10 months, we release. Suddenly, that guy won’t cause us any more trouble. Know what the best part is? Most type 4s we’ve processed in this way never write anything again. Or paint anything, or whatever artists do. And that without any use of force. Just like that. Kind of like a present.
But only until the type 4s of the world unite.
Georg [to Christa]: You know what Lenin said about Beethoven’s Apassionata? He said, “if I keep listening to it, I won’t finish the revolution.” Can anyone who has heard this music – truly heard it – really be a bad person?
Heads he was, tails he wasn't?
[Wiesler enters the elevator at his apartment building. A young boy with a ball joins him]
Boy: Are you really with the Stasi?
Wiesler: Do you even know what the Stasi is?
Boy: Yes. They’re bad men who put people in prison, says my dad.
Wiesler: I see. What is the name of your…
[pauses]
Boy: My what?
Wiesler [thinks for a few more seconds]: …ball. What’s the name of your ball?
Boy: You’re funny. Balls don’t have names.
Too close to call?
Georg [of Hempf]: You are a great artist. I know that. Your audience knows that. You don’t need him. Stay here. Don’t go to him.
Christa: No? Don’t I need him? Don’t I need this whole system? And what about you? Then you don’t need it either. Or need it even less. But you get in bed with them, too. Why do you do it? Because they can destroy you, too, despite your talent and your faith. Because they decide what we play, who is to act, and who can direct. You don’t want to end up like Jerska. And neither do I.
And neither would...you?
Georg [voiceover]: The state office for statistics on Hans-Beimler street counts everything; knows everything: how many pairs of shoes I buy a year: 2.3, how many books I read a year: 3.2 and how many students graduate with perfect marks: 6,347. But there’s one statistic that isn’t collected there, perhaps because such numbers cause even paper-pushers pain: and that is the suicide rate.
The lucky ones?
Georg ]voiceover]: In 1977, our country stopped counting suicides. They called them “self-murderers.”…When we stopped counting, only one country in Europe drove more people to their death: Hungary.
Start here: https://youtu.be/Sbsg_lqqKxk?si=WN3DcUvEqbadWhR_
Grubitz [to Wiesler]: I have to show you something: “Prison Conditions for Subversive Artists: Based on Character Profile”. Pretty scientific, eh? And look at this: “Dissertation Supervisor, A. Grubitz”. That’s great, isn’t it? I only gave him a B. They shouldn’t think getting a doctorate with me is easy. But his is first-class. Did you know that there are just five types of artists? Your guy, Dreyman, is a Type 4, a “hysterical anthropocentrist.” Can’t bear being alone, always talking, needing friends. That type should never be brought to trial. They thrive on that. Temporary detention is the best way to deal with them. Complete isolation and no set release date. No human contact the whole time, not even with the guards. Good treatment, no harassment, no abuse, no scandals, nothing they could write about later. After 10 months, we release. Suddenly, that guy won’t cause us any more trouble. Know what the best part is? Most type 4s we’ve processed in this way never write anything again. Or paint anything, or whatever artists do. And that without any use of force. Just like that. Kind of like a present.
But only until the type 4s of the world unite.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
But…seriously?
Well, I come back to this “theme” time and time again: pop culture, mindless consumption and 24/7 celebrities. It’s everywhere. And the paradox is this: it is both deadening and infuriating.
But this is no Idiocracy.
Roger Ebert: "The first half hour or so…promises so much more than the film is finally able to deliver. Here is a film that begins with merciless comic savagery and descends into merely merciless savagery. But wow, what an opening."
It simply fails to live up to its potential?
But obviously for some more so than for others. It depends in large part on the distance you are able to keep between you and them. After all, no one forces you to indulge in this crap. On the other hand, you either are or are not able to distant yourself from “the masses”.
Think of this as doing “the worst person in the world” with guns.
But with each passing year it gets harder and harder to satirize this stuff because the actual culture itself is already way ahead of you.
Want to exchange lists?
God Bless America
Frank [voiceover]: I hate my neighbors. The constant cacophony of stupidity that pours from their apartment is absolutely soul-crushing. It doesn’t matter how politely I ask them to practice some common courtesy - they’re incapable of comprehending that their actions affect other people. They have a complete lack of consideration for anyone else, and an overly developed sense of entitlement. They have no decency, no concern, no shame. They do not care that I suffer from debilitating migraines and insomnia. They do not care that I have to go to work, or that I want to kill them. I know it’s not normal to want to kill, but I also know that I am no longer normal.
Next up: our neighbors here.
Frank: I wish I was a super-genius inventor and could come up with a way to make a telephone into an explosive device that was triggered by the American Superstarz voting number. The battery could explode and leave a mark on the face, so I could know who to avoid talking to before they even talked.
A swastika, say.
Frank: It’s not nice to laugh at someone who’s not all there. It’s the same type of freak-show distraction that comes along every time a mighty empire starts collapsing. “American Superstarz” is the new colosseum and I won’t participate in watching a show where the weak are torn apart every week for our entertainment.
Not unlike here then?
Office Worker: So, you’re against free speech now? That’s in the Bill of Rights, man.
Frank: I would defend their freedom of speech if I thought it was in jeopardy. I would defend their freedom of speech to tell uninspired, bigoted, blowjob, gay-bashing, racist and rape jokes all under the guise of being edgy, but that’s not the edge. That’s what sells. They couldn’t possibly pander any harder or be more commercially mainstream, because this is the “Oh no, you didn’t say that!” generation, where a shocking comment has more weight than the truth. No one has any shame anymore, and we’re supposed to celebrate it. I saw a woman throw a used tampon at another woman last night on network television, a network that bills itself as “Today’s Woman’s Channel”. Kids beat each other blind and post it on Youtube. I mean, do you remember when eating rats and maggots on Survivor was shocking? It all seems so quaint now. I’m sure the girls from “2 Girls 1 Cup” are gonna have their own dating show on VH-1 any day now. I mean, why have a civilization anymore if we no longer are interested in being civilized?
Ah, the Chuck Barris Syndrome.
Roxy: Who you going to killing next? Do you take requests? Because I was thinking maybe some Kardashians, my gym coach. People who give high fives. Really, any jock. Twihards. People who talk about punk rock. Who else really rips my cock off? Oh, Mormons and other religious assholes who won’t let gay people be married. And adult women who call their tits “the girls”.
And, of course, Will Durant's epistemologists.
Roxy: You’re seriously not interested in me at all as a girlfriend?
Frank: What the hell are you talking about? I’m not a pedophile.
Roxy: So we’re Platonic spree killers?
Frank: Yeah. And that’s all.
Let's get back to that.
Frank: I only wanna kill people who deserve to die.
Roxy: You know who we should kill?
Frank: Who?
Roxy: People who use rockstar as an adjective. As in rockstar parking.
Frank: People who pound energy drinks all day.
Roxy: People who use the term edgy, in your face, or extreme.
Uh, serious philosophers?
Frank [On the air]: My name is Frank. That’s not important. The important question is: who are you? America has become a cruel and vicious place. We reward the shallowest, the dumbest, the meanest and the loudest. We no longer have any common sense of decency. No sense of shame. There is no right and wrong. The worst qualities in people are looked up to and celebrated. Lying and spreading fear is fine as long as you make money doing it. We’ve become a nation of slogan-saying, bile-spewing hatemongers. We’ve lost our kindness. We’ve lost our soul. What have we become? We take the weakest in our society, we hold them up to be ridiculed, laughed at for our sport and entertainment. Laughed at to the point, where they would literally rather kill themselves than live with us anymore.
Unfortunately, Steven doesn’t get that part either. So, fuck it, he goes down too.
Well, I come back to this “theme” time and time again: pop culture, mindless consumption and 24/7 celebrities. It’s everywhere. And the paradox is this: it is both deadening and infuriating.
But this is no Idiocracy.
Roger Ebert: "The first half hour or so…promises so much more than the film is finally able to deliver. Here is a film that begins with merciless comic savagery and descends into merely merciless savagery. But wow, what an opening."
It simply fails to live up to its potential?
But obviously for some more so than for others. It depends in large part on the distance you are able to keep between you and them. After all, no one forces you to indulge in this crap. On the other hand, you either are or are not able to distant yourself from “the masses”.
Think of this as doing “the worst person in the world” with guns.
But with each passing year it gets harder and harder to satirize this stuff because the actual culture itself is already way ahead of you.
Want to exchange lists?
God Bless America
Frank [voiceover]: I hate my neighbors. The constant cacophony of stupidity that pours from their apartment is absolutely soul-crushing. It doesn’t matter how politely I ask them to practice some common courtesy - they’re incapable of comprehending that their actions affect other people. They have a complete lack of consideration for anyone else, and an overly developed sense of entitlement. They have no decency, no concern, no shame. They do not care that I suffer from debilitating migraines and insomnia. They do not care that I have to go to work, or that I want to kill them. I know it’s not normal to want to kill, but I also know that I am no longer normal.
Next up: our neighbors here.
Frank: I wish I was a super-genius inventor and could come up with a way to make a telephone into an explosive device that was triggered by the American Superstarz voting number. The battery could explode and leave a mark on the face, so I could know who to avoid talking to before they even talked.
A swastika, say.
Frank: It’s not nice to laugh at someone who’s not all there. It’s the same type of freak-show distraction that comes along every time a mighty empire starts collapsing. “American Superstarz” is the new colosseum and I won’t participate in watching a show where the weak are torn apart every week for our entertainment.
Not unlike here then?
Office Worker: So, you’re against free speech now? That’s in the Bill of Rights, man.
Frank: I would defend their freedom of speech if I thought it was in jeopardy. I would defend their freedom of speech to tell uninspired, bigoted, blowjob, gay-bashing, racist and rape jokes all under the guise of being edgy, but that’s not the edge. That’s what sells. They couldn’t possibly pander any harder or be more commercially mainstream, because this is the “Oh no, you didn’t say that!” generation, where a shocking comment has more weight than the truth. No one has any shame anymore, and we’re supposed to celebrate it. I saw a woman throw a used tampon at another woman last night on network television, a network that bills itself as “Today’s Woman’s Channel”. Kids beat each other blind and post it on Youtube. I mean, do you remember when eating rats and maggots on Survivor was shocking? It all seems so quaint now. I’m sure the girls from “2 Girls 1 Cup” are gonna have their own dating show on VH-1 any day now. I mean, why have a civilization anymore if we no longer are interested in being civilized?
Ah, the Chuck Barris Syndrome.
Roxy: Who you going to killing next? Do you take requests? Because I was thinking maybe some Kardashians, my gym coach. People who give high fives. Really, any jock. Twihards. People who talk about punk rock. Who else really rips my cock off? Oh, Mormons and other religious assholes who won’t let gay people be married. And adult women who call their tits “the girls”.
And, of course, Will Durant's epistemologists.
Roxy: You’re seriously not interested in me at all as a girlfriend?
Frank: What the hell are you talking about? I’m not a pedophile.
Roxy: So we’re Platonic spree killers?
Frank: Yeah. And that’s all.
Let's get back to that.
Frank: I only wanna kill people who deserve to die.
Roxy: You know who we should kill?
Frank: Who?
Roxy: People who use rockstar as an adjective. As in rockstar parking.
Frank: People who pound energy drinks all day.
Roxy: People who use the term edgy, in your face, or extreme.
Uh, serious philosophers?
Frank [On the air]: My name is Frank. That’s not important. The important question is: who are you? America has become a cruel and vicious place. We reward the shallowest, the dumbest, the meanest and the loudest. We no longer have any common sense of decency. No sense of shame. There is no right and wrong. The worst qualities in people are looked up to and celebrated. Lying and spreading fear is fine as long as you make money doing it. We’ve become a nation of slogan-saying, bile-spewing hatemongers. We’ve lost our kindness. We’ve lost our soul. What have we become? We take the weakest in our society, we hold them up to be ridiculed, laughed at for our sport and entertainment. Laughed at to the point, where they would literally rather kill themselves than live with us anymore.
Unfortunately, Steven doesn’t get that part either. So, fuck it, he goes down too.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Either the irony of war or the irony in war. Apparently, that all becomes less relevant if you volunteer for it. Unless of course you volunteer because economically you had no choice. But that’s another movie. Another kind of irony. And [no doubt] another catch altogether.
The catch here though is that this is all only more or less absurd depending on the war. It’s not just a coincidence for example that even though the war in the movie is the Second World War it aired in theatres during the Vietnam War. In fact this movie was released while I myself was stationed in Vietnam! So I missed it. And trust me, it was Patton they showed at the military installation [Fort Devens?] not Catch-22.
Really, try to even imagine this coming out when Hitler was around. It only works then when the death and destruction revolves around the “best and the brightest”. Or [re Dubya, Saddam and Iraq] the buffoons.
On the other hand, in all wars there are those who know how to, let’s say, make the best of it. Remember Sergeant Sefton? Well, imagine how much easier it must be when you are not in a Stalag. The wheelers and the dealers in other words. And those who can twist this into that. And then back again. That’s right: Another “syndicate”.
Hmm. So the target here may well be more the, uh, military? Or maybe even [gasp!] the entire military industrial complex? Here in the form of M & M Enterprises. Think Dick Cheney and Haliburton.
Catch-22
Yossarian: Those bastards are trying to kill me.
Milo: No one is trying to kill you sweetheart. Now eat your dessert like a good boy.
Yossarian: Oh yeah? Then why are they shooting at me Milo?
Dobbs: They’re shooting at everyone Yossarian.
Yossarian: And what difference does that make?
Dobbs: Look Yossarian, suppose, I mean just suppose everyone thought the same way you do.
Yossarian: Then I’d be a damn fool to think any different.
Catch-1 let's call it.
Here’s the Catch-22 rendition:
Yossarian: Can you ground someone who’s crazy?
Doc: Of course. The rules say I have to ground anyone who’s crazy.
Yossarian: I’m crazy! Ask anybody. Ask Nately, Dobbs, McWatt… Orr, tell him!
Orr: Tell him what?
Yossarian: Am I crazy?
Orr: He’s crazy. He won’t fly with me. I’d take good care of him but he won’t. He’s crazy, all right.
Yossarian: See that? They all say I’m crazy.
Doc: They’re crazy.
Yossarian: Ground them.
Doc: They never ask me to.
Yossarian: Because they’re crazy!
Doc: Of course they’re crazy. I just told you that. And you can’t let crazy people decide whether you’re crazy or not, can you?
Yossarian: Is Orr crazy?
Doc: Of course he is. He has to be crazy to keep flying after all the close calls he’s had.
Yossarian: Why can’t you ground him?
Doc: I can, but first he has to ask me.
Yossarian: That’s all he’s gotta do to be grounded?
Doc: That’s all.
Yossarian: Then you can ground him?
Doc: No. Then I cannot ground him.
Yossarian: Aah!
Doc: There’s a catch.
Yossarian: A catch?
Doc: Sure. Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat isn’t really crazy, so I can’t ground him.
Yossarian: Ok, let me see if I’ve got this straight. In order to be grounded, I’ve got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I’m not crazy anymore, and I have to keep flying.
Doc: You got it, that’s Catch-22.
Yossarian: Wow…That’s some catch, that Catch-22.
Doc: It’s the best there is.
Next up: all the Catch-22 bots here.
Danby: Weather conditions have improved tremendously over the mainland, so you won’t have any trouble at all seeing the target. Of course, we mustn’t forget, that means that they won’t have any trouble at all seeing you.
Next up: the Philadelphia Experiment.
Not, however, to be confused with the Philadelphia Story
Milo: If I take a plane this afternoon, I’ll get this material to Alexandria. There’s a huge cotton crop this year. Cotton is a very liquid commodity.
Cathcart: How much?
Milo: We’ll trade for it.
Cathcart: With what?
Milo: Silk! Four thousand yards of silk. How did you get hold of so much silk?
[meanwhile]
Yossarian [in the bomber]: Where the hell’s my parachute?!
Now we know.
[repeated lines]
Yossarian: What’s that? I don’t get you.
Voice: Help him!
Yossarian: What?
Voice: Help him! Help him!
Yossarian: Help who?
Voice: Help the bombardier!
Voice: I’m the bombardier, I’m all right.
Voice: Then help HIM. Help HIM!
The fog of war.
Maj. Major: Sergeant, from now on, I don’t want anyone to come in and see me while I’m in my office. Is that clear?
Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. What do I say to people who want to come in and see you while you’re gone?
Maj. Major: Tell them I’m in and ask them to wait.
Sgt. Towser: For how long?
Maj. Major: Until I’ve left.
Sgt. Towser: And then what do I do with them?
Maj. Major: I don’t care.
Sgt. Towser: May I send people in to see you after you’ve left?
Maj. Major: Yes.
First Sgt. Towser: You won’t be here then, will you?
Maj. Major: No.
Sgt. Towser: I see, sir. Will that be all?
Maj. Major: Also, Sergeant, I don’t want you coming in while I’m in my office asking me if there’s anything you can do for me. Is that clear?
Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. When should I come in your office and ask if there’s anything I can do for you?
Maj. Major: When I’m not there.
Sgt. Towser: What do I do then?
Maj. Major: Whatever has to be done.
Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir.
[after the major leaves]
Sgt. Towser [to Capt. Tallman]: The major will see you now, Captain.
Sounds like a triple digit catch to me.
The catch here though is that this is all only more or less absurd depending on the war. It’s not just a coincidence for example that even though the war in the movie is the Second World War it aired in theatres during the Vietnam War. In fact this movie was released while I myself was stationed in Vietnam! So I missed it. And trust me, it was Patton they showed at the military installation [Fort Devens?] not Catch-22.
Really, try to even imagine this coming out when Hitler was around. It only works then when the death and destruction revolves around the “best and the brightest”. Or [re Dubya, Saddam and Iraq] the buffoons.
On the other hand, in all wars there are those who know how to, let’s say, make the best of it. Remember Sergeant Sefton? Well, imagine how much easier it must be when you are not in a Stalag. The wheelers and the dealers in other words. And those who can twist this into that. And then back again. That’s right: Another “syndicate”.
Hmm. So the target here may well be more the, uh, military? Or maybe even [gasp!] the entire military industrial complex? Here in the form of M & M Enterprises. Think Dick Cheney and Haliburton.
Catch-22
Yossarian: Those bastards are trying to kill me.
Milo: No one is trying to kill you sweetheart. Now eat your dessert like a good boy.
Yossarian: Oh yeah? Then why are they shooting at me Milo?
Dobbs: They’re shooting at everyone Yossarian.
Yossarian: And what difference does that make?
Dobbs: Look Yossarian, suppose, I mean just suppose everyone thought the same way you do.
Yossarian: Then I’d be a damn fool to think any different.
Catch-1 let's call it.
Here’s the Catch-22 rendition:
Yossarian: Can you ground someone who’s crazy?
Doc: Of course. The rules say I have to ground anyone who’s crazy.
Yossarian: I’m crazy! Ask anybody. Ask Nately, Dobbs, McWatt… Orr, tell him!
Orr: Tell him what?
Yossarian: Am I crazy?
Orr: He’s crazy. He won’t fly with me. I’d take good care of him but he won’t. He’s crazy, all right.
Yossarian: See that? They all say I’m crazy.
Doc: They’re crazy.
Yossarian: Ground them.
Doc: They never ask me to.
Yossarian: Because they’re crazy!
Doc: Of course they’re crazy. I just told you that. And you can’t let crazy people decide whether you’re crazy or not, can you?
Yossarian: Is Orr crazy?
Doc: Of course he is. He has to be crazy to keep flying after all the close calls he’s had.
Yossarian: Why can’t you ground him?
Doc: I can, but first he has to ask me.
Yossarian: That’s all he’s gotta do to be grounded?
Doc: That’s all.
Yossarian: Then you can ground him?
Doc: No. Then I cannot ground him.
Yossarian: Aah!
Doc: There’s a catch.
Yossarian: A catch?
Doc: Sure. Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat isn’t really crazy, so I can’t ground him.
Yossarian: Ok, let me see if I’ve got this straight. In order to be grounded, I’ve got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I’m not crazy anymore, and I have to keep flying.
Doc: You got it, that’s Catch-22.
Yossarian: Wow…That’s some catch, that Catch-22.
Doc: It’s the best there is.
Next up: all the Catch-22 bots here.
Danby: Weather conditions have improved tremendously over the mainland, so you won’t have any trouble at all seeing the target. Of course, we mustn’t forget, that means that they won’t have any trouble at all seeing you.
Next up: the Philadelphia Experiment.
Not, however, to be confused with the Philadelphia Story
Milo: If I take a plane this afternoon, I’ll get this material to Alexandria. There’s a huge cotton crop this year. Cotton is a very liquid commodity.
Cathcart: How much?
Milo: We’ll trade for it.
Cathcart: With what?
Milo: Silk! Four thousand yards of silk. How did you get hold of so much silk?
[meanwhile]
Yossarian [in the bomber]: Where the hell’s my parachute?!
Now we know.
[repeated lines]
Yossarian: What’s that? I don’t get you.
Voice: Help him!
Yossarian: What?
Voice: Help him! Help him!
Yossarian: Help who?
Voice: Help the bombardier!
Voice: I’m the bombardier, I’m all right.
Voice: Then help HIM. Help HIM!
The fog of war.
Maj. Major: Sergeant, from now on, I don’t want anyone to come in and see me while I’m in my office. Is that clear?
Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. What do I say to people who want to come in and see you while you’re gone?
Maj. Major: Tell them I’m in and ask them to wait.
Sgt. Towser: For how long?
Maj. Major: Until I’ve left.
Sgt. Towser: And then what do I do with them?
Maj. Major: I don’t care.
Sgt. Towser: May I send people in to see you after you’ve left?
Maj. Major: Yes.
First Sgt. Towser: You won’t be here then, will you?
Maj. Major: No.
Sgt. Towser: I see, sir. Will that be all?
Maj. Major: Also, Sergeant, I don’t want you coming in while I’m in my office asking me if there’s anything you can do for me. Is that clear?
Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. When should I come in your office and ask if there’s anything I can do for you?
Maj. Major: When I’m not there.
Sgt. Towser: What do I do then?
Maj. Major: Whatever has to be done.
Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir.
[after the major leaves]
Sgt. Towser [to Capt. Tallman]: The major will see you now, Captain.
Sounds like a triple digit catch to me.