The Male and Female Relationship.

[accelafine]

Notes

[Age]

Stop fucking talking to me you fucking freak!

Whatever our differences, Age is in a special category all his own. Best to ignore him completely. I do understand: even if he's on ignore, you still see his compressed posts and you still get notifications. But he's happy to just keep annoying you. He won't even consider the irony, in this thread, of a man continuing to make advances when a woman has asked him to stop.

Regardless, if you don't respond in any way, he may still respond to a post here or there, but his responses will be fewer immediately. If nothing else, there is a mechanical aspect to his personality and posting. If you respond, he will respond. If you ignore him, the responses get less to nearly gone. He is bot-like and predictable.

Fairness is not always in reach, as we both know. But better sometimes is.

I don't read anything he writes or open his comments at all.

So, there is absolutely no need for the over dramatization from this one here, obviously.

The only way I know he's 'talking' to me is through the endless red dot notifications (sometimes a long list of them).

But that, obviously, does not mean that I am talking this one.

He knows this so it's deliberate harassment and you are absolutely right--stalking behaviour. I haven't responded to his comments--only the red dots.

And, I have not necessarily been talking to this one. I am just responding to the words and claims that it makes. Which is obviously perfectly acceptable and normal in a public forum.

It is like some of you people want to believe that 'you' are free to talk 'about me' but 'I' am not allowed to respond to what is said and written here.

[henry quirk]

But as for standards, nope, I’m not lowering them, if I can’t find anyone to fly to dizzy heights with then so be it, I’m good alone just as well. If I’m going to do this, I’m going for gold, not copper. I’m sick of mundane I want octane, or nothing at all.

Okay: good luck!

[Fairy]

What are your personal opinions, as to what you believe or think, make an adult male and female relationship, either work really well, or fail miserably? Apart from the obviousness of incompatibility. Why do some relationships work and others do not?

I'll speak from what I think has worked in my current, longest relationship. Well, you have to love each other. That can be a vague word, but it includes this desire that the other person not suffer, in the specific situations, and enjoy, find meaning or whatever they are seeking possible. You are glad when they feel right or good and not glad when they suffer. That this is all palpable to the other person. Empathy could be a term for this.

Sense of humor. We've had to go through real hellish experiences since we met and we both make jokes, sometimes jokes that others would consider really quite dark. This was part of what got us through what might have frozen us or led to depression where we couldn't have managed to do what we needed to. I think also bodies like to laugh, that it has healthy effects and these effects, given that some of the hell related to health issues, got use through on that level also, not just the emotional.

I think common values and some common preferences help. I mean, if there's nothing you enjoy doing together, well, then it's hard to have a relationship. If you don't have at least some closeness in values than goals and ways of relating differn too much.

I think you have to be willing to look at and call into question your own habits and truths. Not just to cast them off when bidden, but you are able to look at the scary dreck, assumptions, unconscious patterns, and the dark side of your own soul. The other person lives with them, either literally if you live in the same home, or metaphorically since you spend time together. They aren't just spending time with what you like about yourself. They are spending time with what you don't like about yourself, including parts you don't even want to notice and manage not to. You get to react knee-jerk and defensively but if you can't at least also mull and reflect and feel into and reconsider, it ain't gonna last.

Related to sense of humor is play. Play has helped me. It might come through dance or playdoh or throwing things or in water stuff, but the what gets called child stuff, that's gotta be in there, at least for me. Physical play. And not like a prescription, but that play flows out of the connection you have. I suppose I have worded much of the above too universally. I started clear but sagged into universalizing language. I restate: this has what has helped me and the woman I'm with.....so far.

Man, it makes a world of difference to me if both people are interested in what they other one wants to talk about. Not always of course, but that generally one is curious, interested, would miss hearing the other person's thoughts and feelings, questions and mulling, dreams, memories.....

I need someone who is comfortable with both what get called positive emotions and what get called negative emotions. I don't buy that schema. But someone who gets there is a lot going on, life is challenging to say the least, and stuff is going to come up. That on some level both of us can be with the full range of the human in the other.

Should we try harder to make them work, or simply give up on them far too easily, for fear of being mentally and emotionally drained, or hurt.

It depends. I think most of us know people who try to make the wrong relationships work and suffer terribly for it. Then we likely know someone else who runs at the first sign of trouble. I'm afraid we are down to intuition here. It would be lovely if we could fill in a questionaire and get an answer (not saying you meant this), but I think intuition is needed here and I think intuition can improve.

Having some of what could be called self-love, or the lack of self-hate, or having some self-acceptance is likely necessary to have that intuition going well.

Are relationships just too much effort. Are they not worth the bother. Is the juice never worth the squeeze. Is it just easier to say they are wrong, or they are broken, even when they have also felt amazing for a long time, but then due to mood changes, suddenly something feels so wrong, so it’s just easier to throw them out with the trash, rather than try to fix the broken. Should we be frightened of each others moods, or allow moods to be there, without them posing any threat to the wonderful opportunist potential that two people can create together with each other. Can we accept that nothing is ever just a given, and that nothing is ever easy, and that with enough effort and relentless dedication all things and differences can be worked out.

People are so different, I have no idea what they all need. Some seem very shallow, but who knows. For me it seems a given that we probably will get frightened by each other's moods and we need to learn how to be there with them anyway. But if that ends up being a kind of rule someone, in a home with emotional or even physical abuse, may stay and suffer for no good reason. Intuition again is necessary.

Isn’t a treasured flower vase, that unfortunately crashed and broke into many pieces, but was restored back to its former beauty by being glued back together just as sentimental and precious as it once were in it’s original pristine state? And can’t our relationships be treated like that?

It's a lovely metaphor. Sure. That can happen and I have experienced something like that.

Or is it just better to be alone, for the rest of your life.

I am sure there are people who would actually rather be alone, we are billions. I say actually because I think many others haven't yet found a way to nto suffer immensely with others, so it seems or is the best option for now. I think we are social beings and we tend to want/need our special one, but I won't run up to the hermit's cabin and tell them they need to get out more. But if we are friends and they are clearly suffering lonliness and they ask me, well, I might suggest that things don't have to be like they have been in the past. But some process might have to be gone through for a different kind of relationship to be possible.

I suppose in the background is a kind of general idea that you gotta be able to be with hard to face places in yourself and in the other person. But that also if taken like a rule could lead to self-abuse.

Thank you so much for sharing this dear one. I read it all, and it was beautifully expressed. I'm so happy to hear from people like you, who seem to just have an innate intuitive knowing of what makes female and male relationships work.
Maybe some people just get lucky, IDK. Then there are others who fail in relationships, time after time after time, so for some of us, it must be like trying to win the massive roll over lottery. It's extremely rare.
All I can say on the matter, is that when ever I personally choose to go into a relationship with someone, it is usually because I am consciously choosing to do it for the sole reason that I really like the person. Lately, I am the one who is pursued by people, I prefer that. I'm not bothered whether I live alone with or without a partner. If someone comes by, I give it a whirl. But I'm not the one who goes looking for people. I can take or leave people. I'm extremely strong, and self sufficient, independent and content as a single person.

I've always loved the person I am with, the person I like, but they for whatever reason have never loved me in return. Same goes for loyalty and faithfulness. I have never left anyone who I have been in relationship with, they have always left me. For me, I'm not scared of difficulties and challenges that come went two unique different entities come together as one. My goal in life has always been to fight for what I want. But no one I have ever met has ever fought for me in return, people in my life have just run away at the first sign of trouble, as if they are too immature to deal with it. Personally, I think people should not get involved with other people unless they are willing to ride the ups and downs of the roller coaster that is most human relationships. It's not for the faint of heart. So if you are weak, then you should get a puppy, or a kitten and love that instead. I always believe that good relationships are forged out of hell, before they ever reach the dizzy heights of heaven. But most people I know are not healed enough to go through hell with every new partner they meet. My ideal relationship is where each of us live in our own house, and just meet up now and again. I could do that with someone for life, and love them to death, knowing I have my own personal sanctuary to escape to. I believe personal space is very important. And those lucky enough to have their own space houses are indeed very fortunate. Now all they have to do is find the right partner, it's never happened to me yet.

Thanks for taking the time out to share your feelings on this subject. I would have loved to have had a relationship with someone like you. I mean to have found someone who is obviously in touch with their true feelings and is not frightened of their inner demons and trauma's they may or may not have experienced as some point in their life.


I particularly resonated with what you said here....

Should we try harder to make them work, or simply give up on them far too easily, for fear of being mentally and emotionally drained, or hurt.

It depends. I think most of us know people who try to make the wrong relationships work and suffer terribly for it. Then we likely know someone else who runs at the first sign of trouble. I'm afraid we are down to intuition here. It would be lovely if we could fill in a questionaire and get an answer (not saying you meant this), but I think intuition is needed here and I think intuition can improve.

[Fairy]

You are very welcome. And what you said above is very well put.

Mark

Thankyou for recognising your own soul.

If people only learnt how to love, to truly love, without fear, life would be much more bearable on this earth.

I strongly believe that all of us are just pure love at heart, and would love nothing more than to share their love with another. But sadly, a lot of people do not know what agape love is, and how it is a real love that stays and never leaves, it fixes, and never throws away.

Real true love is possible, but first, one has to navigate through the doors of hell, to reach their final destination which is heaven. Most people I've known give up while in the hell part, because they are unable to understand the dark and light side of every human personality, it's as if they only prefer one side of them while rejecting the other. But for those people, who reject the darkness, is simply their loss. Those people never find the light at the end of the dark tunnel, they simply fear to go through it, never ever getting to see the other side of the deal.

The point is, no one said it was going to be easy, just that it would be worth it. But people are weak, and that will never change, so it seems.

[Fairy]

At least women are loved. The number one desire of men is to be loved back, but no one loves men. So no, men can't have what they want, unless they are gay or emotionally retarded.

Men are loved.

If only they knew how much they are loved, how much they are appreciated and adored. They are magnificent strong human beings. Look at what they have done for the human species. Look at the amazing life humans have built for themselves, since leaving the cave days of sticks and stones and clubs.

Truly amazing people are men. Everyone is in debt to their relentless hard work of building human societies and cities. If it were not for men, we'd still be living in caves, with clubs, and sticks and stones. Women love men for all they have done to build this modern world, please never forget that. I thank God they exist, they are beautiful beyond belief. They take my breath away to be perfectly honest.

[Fairy]

But as for standards, nope, I’m not lowering them, if I can’t find anyone to fly to dizzy heights with then so be it, I’m good alone just as well. If I’m going to do this, I’m going for gold, not copper. I’m sick of mundane I want octane, or nothing at all.

Okay: good luck!

Thanks, I'm just not a quitter, when it comes to everything I choose to do in life. I'm a fighter. I always want what I want, and never what I don't want. I will follow a good leader to the ends of the earth and back, as I believe in perfect team effort. There's no leader without a follower, and vice versa. Success is coming into phase with these complimentary opposites, and knowing your true place in the relationship game. We are all in relationship with everyone we meet. Everyone is our mirror reflecting back to us who we really are on the inside. Loving someone else, is a reflection of your own love that's inside you, not them.

I believe that when something is worth doing, it is worth doing it well, even if I make an absolute pigs ear of it at first, I will never give up trying to make something I consider worth it. It takes endurance and much patience, and I have all of that. I particularly like to be around high energy people because that's who I am, I love laughing until my sides hurt. I love clowning around and being daft, and saying crazy shit like reality is nondual, that is who I was born to be. I'm a wild person, very wild and free, and not your usual conditioned sheep.

[accelafine]

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I II I I I I I IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII...

[Fairy]

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I II I I I I I IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII...

Aye!

There is only I

But you already know that. Try not being I … you’d go insane with boredom.

[Iwannaplato]

Thank you so much for sharing this dear one.

Thanks for asking. It was good to mull and realize.

I read it all, and it was beautifully expressed. I'm so happy to hear from people like you, who seem to just have an innate intuitive knowing of what makes female and male relationships work.
Maybe some people just get lucky, IDK

I think it might as well be luck. Meeting my wife was almost as lucky as the sperm that turned out to be me was the one that got there first.

Then there are others who fail in relationships, time after time after time, so for some of us, it must be like trying to win the massive roll over lottery. It's extremely rare.

I failed in a variety of ways and met people who failed me (or so it seemed) and had a wide variety of catastrophies. I can see and could see after a while how much my unconscious expectations were leading me to experiences. I mean, deep down I have a judgment, for example, that 'the woman will get sick or die or break into pieces and not be able to be there for me.' That seems to have led to some of my 'choices'. There are other judgments I've found and it hasn't always been easy to find these judgments. I also try to get at all the emotions that hold these things in place or are underneath these judgments and express them. And then to notice what people call the shadow in myself and to get that integrated. If anything I say ends up feeling like it means something is your fault, no, no no. I've just found that I have some degree of changing things and I still work at this.

I've been to hell many a time.

And there's no blissful perfection (so far, lol). Cranky, irritated, struggle, realizing unpleasant stuff, guilt continue

All I can say on the matter, is that when ever I personally choose to go into a relationship with someone, it is usually because I am consciously choosing to do it for the sole reason that I really like the person. Lately, I am the one who is pursued by people, I prefer that.

I think pattern changes are really good. If you are always X in the relationship or in the not getting to a relationship, I think it is harder for something new to get in.

I'm not bothered whether I live alone with or without a partner. If someone comes by, I give it a whirl. But I'm not the one who goes looking for people. I can take or leave people. I'm extremely strong, and self sufficient, independent and content as a single person.

Wow. I couldn't say the same thing and that certainly gives you a base to meet someone wonderful, I think.

I've always loved the person I am with, the person I like, but they for whatever reason have never loved me in return. Same goes for loyalty and faithfulness. I have never left anyone who I have been in relationship with, they have always left me.

I'll toss out my model on that. Obviously if the model is not appealing, just ignore it. And in no way should it be experienced as self-blame.

I've had that experience also and not a few times. I realized I had judgments about myself that got brought up when I was treated like shit. My head might know that it wasn't my fault or they couldn't deal with intimacy, or whatever, but in me there were old feelings and judgments being raised to the surface. I would try to get at noticing the judgments and letting feelings I wasn't so comfortable with come out. And there were subtlties. Maybe there is a kind of anger I didn't like feeling in myself, but other kinds I could. Or a kind of fear I really didn't want to feel, even if I could acknowledge other fears. Guilt and shame are often sitting on top of churning emotion, holding it down.

For me, I'm not scared of difficulties and challenges that come went two unique different entities come together as one. My goal in life has always been to fight for what I want. But no one I have ever met has ever fought for me in return, people in my life have just run away at the first sign of trouble, as if they are too immature to deal with it. Personally, I think people should not get involved with other people unless they are willing to ride the ups and downs of the roller coaster that is most human relationships.

Agreed. There are people who seem happy with each other and never fight or have troubles with each other. I don't understand them. I can judge them and I can judge myself. But maybe it's a hedghog judging a crow. Who knows? I just think given the nature of reality and the suffering that's gone on for so long and the gap between men and women, there's gonna be some struggle.

It's not for the faint of heart. So if you are weak, then you should get a puppy, or a kitten and love that instead. I always believe that good relationships are forged out of hell, before they ever reach the dizzy heights of heaven. But most people I know are not healed enough to go through hell with every new partner they meet. My ideal relationship is where each of us live in our own house, and just meet up now and again. I could do that with someone for life, and love them to death, knowing I have my own personal sanctuary to escape to. I believe personal space is very important. And those lucky enough to have their own space houses are indeed very fortunate. Now all they have to do is find the right partner, it's never happened to me yet.

Well, I hope it comes.

Thanks for taking the time out to share your feelings on this subject. I would have loved to have had a relationship with someone like you. I mean to have found someone who is obviously in touch with their true feelings and is not frightened of their inner demons and trauma's they may or may not have experienced as some point in their life.

Yeah. They are out there, and then you also have to find one that fits somehow.

I particularly resonated with what you said here....

Should we try harder to make them work, or simply give up on them far too easily, for fear of being mentally and emotionally drained, or hurt.

It depends. I think most of us know people who try to make the wrong relationships work and suffer terribly for it. Then we likely know someone else who runs at the first sign of trouble. I'm afraid we are down to intuition here. It would be lovely if we could fill in a questionaire and get an answer (not saying you meant this), but I think intuition is needed here and I think intuition can improve.

[/quote]

There's a lot of right brain in all this, emotions, desires, tolerance for temporary chaos feelings. And then in my case I have to work, which is a whole other relationship with its own problems, for me, at least. Who are these people with their cold buildings?

[promethean75]

Many well-dressed people in several locations are kissing quite a bit. Later in the evening leaves will fall, tears will flow, wind will blow... some rain, some snow

[BuzzCap7]

You are very welcome. And what you said above is very well put.

Mark

Thankyou for recognising your own soul.

If people only learnt how to love, to truly love, without fear, life would be much more bearable on this earth.

I strongly believe that all of us are just pure love at heart, and would love nothing more than to share their love with another. But sadly, a lot of people do not know what agape love is, and how it is a real love that stays and never leaves, it fixes, and never throws away.

Real true love is possible, but first, one has to navigate through the doors of hell, to reach their final destination which is heaven. Most people I've known give up while in the hell part, because they are unable to understand the dark and light side of every human personality, it's as if they only prefer one side of them while rejecting the other. But for those people, who reject the darkness, is simply their loss. Those people never find the light at the end of the dark tunnel, they simply fear to go through it, never ever getting to see the other side of the deal.

The point is, no one said it was going to be easy, just that it would be worth it. But people are weak, and that will never change, so it seems.

It appears to me, you just summed up why we are here on earth.

It is a journey. Together, but we take equally journey (grow) separately and at different rates.. Patience.

If I might add, it is an interesting journey such that, you may have the answer on a matter but until the other person (people) are ready to hear it, it just sounds like prose.

Mark

[henry quirk]

Well, as I say: good luck!

[Atla]

At least women are loved. The number one desire of men is to be loved back, but no one loves men. So no, men can't have what they want, unless they are gay or emotionally retarded.

Men are loved.

If only they knew how much they are loved, how much they are appreciated and adored. They are magnificent strong human beings. Look at what they have done for the human species. Look at the amazing life humans have built for themselves, since leaving the cave days of sticks and stones and clubs.

Truly amazing people are men. Everyone is in debt to their relentless hard work of building human societies and cities. If it were not for men, we'd still be living in caves, with clubs, and sticks and stones. Women love men for all they have done to build this modern world, please never forget that. I thank God they exist, they are beautiful beyond belief. They take my breath away to be perfectly honest.

Yeah but that's not love, that's gratefulness.

[promethean75]

Come now, Atla. Now's no time to shrug. Remember what Fritz taught us: when talking about women, speak only to men.