Free Will

[Fairy]

Then the self-contradiction must be necessary.

It can't be. That which contradicts eliminates both statements by way of the other. All one can do is affirm one, or neither, not both.

Come on now, the claim of yours that God is triune three in ONE God, being the father, son, and the holy spirit..as ONE wholly whole. Is a contradiction in the knowledge of that knowledge. Surely you must see that?

It's not that the contradiction is literal, it's simply a pointing to an absolute truth, and that pointing can only be done through the knowledge of unitary opposites. The non-dual God.

Non, as in nothing. Dual as in everything. And God the concept known, is the 'something' that flows between the two polar opposites.


(''Keep silent, because the world of silence is a vast fullness.'' Rumi)

[Fairy]

It's an attempt to describe a state in which everything is one thing. But the idea just doesn't work. The Eastern traditions, it seems, all came to realize this, and all made various attempts to deal with it...rather unsuccessfully, I would say.

As you wish, so say you, you do you then.

But for the one here, the nondual God is very much the most successful realisation of truth, that ever graced my seeking years. The realisation has been the peace that passes all understanding. It's something I have been working with all my life, I have done my homework, and reaped it's reward and rest in that now, I'm finally home with the beloved, after a long introspective search for who I am. I realised there has always been the beloved, and never not the beloved.

If you do not grasp what nonduality is pointing to, then so be it, your opinion changes nothing.
God is, and always was, and will be, and this obviousness, cannot be known by any thing created, simply because a thing, is not the knowing, a physical created thing, like an object, can know nothing of it's existence. There is zero, absolutely no experience, of ever being an object. And at the same time, there is zero, no experience whatsoever, of the absence of experience. You have always existed, because only consciousness is experienced, consciousness is the experience experiencing itself alone...nothingness, is never consciousnesses ''all alone experience'', there is no such experience as nothingness.

Pure objectless experience of aliveness, is the only knowing there is, and all that can ever be known to be real and true. And you are that, and so am I

[Fairy]

My God IC...even the Bible speaks of the Non-dual God many times...here's an expample:

Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is over everything, through everything, and in everything

Whoops. You took it out of context. Ephesians 4 is talking about the confession of Christians about who their Father is. But it goes on to identify their common Saviour as Christ (4, 5, 11, 15-16), and the basis of their unity the Spirit of God (3-4, 30). So it's trinitarianism again.

Yes, it does appear to be a trinity. No doubt about that.

But you fail to notice, there is no need for the middle man, for Christ is one with his Father, and so there is no other 'man' here on earth, other than Him alone.

The one pointing to this truth, is the same one being pointed upon, the mirror is both the the projector and the projected image upon itself, and are exact images of each other. The mirror and it's image are the Non-dual God and Son together as one inseparable knowing, in the moment knowing arises, one with itself.
This is tricky to grasp. I know, but only those with eyes and ears will see and know this.

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[Fairy]

That's the problem with positing non-dualism.

No one is positing non-duality. That's the whole point that non-duality is pointing to.


Look for yourself. There is no one that can be seen or known pointing to itself, except the self appearing in the mirror, which can only appear to be the exact mirror image of the no one. So the one who previously isn't seen or known to itself, is now appearing to itself as a known image, in the duality of one appearing as two.

And yes, the image of self is only able to be seen and known as illustrated below in the image you are looking at, or looking upon.

This image here is all that can be seen and known about myself. This image below is a nondual image, because it's an image of the imageless.

The seer that cannot be seen, can only be known, become known as and through the identical mirror image of itself. The duality is plain to see in this image below. This image and no image is the divine paradox that doesn't exist except as the illusion of twoness.

Get it yet?

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[Fairy]

Well, if Fairy IS God, because all is non-dual, then how can Fairy have a god?

Come on now IC... Fairy can have a God, in the exact same way Jesus can have a God.

Don't forget, it was Jesus the man, who is reported to have spoken to other men and women, of his Father being God. So was Jesus talking about his biological Father, his actual physical Father, or was he talking about some other Father? See the problem, which God is which? which is the real God, and which is the illusory God? Or, are they both the same God. How does that work? unless the contradiction/paradox is all part of the same knowing knowledge?

Do you really anticipate that I, or you, or anyone is going to be able to attribute a "how" to the existence of the eternal Supreme Being?

No one knows 'How' except God, but then does God even know 'HOW'

That's the begging question. Any 'How' question can only be answered if there is a sense of separation. But One and only God can never be separated from himself can he. And so who would be asking How? ...would that be the one God asking that question, that can only arise to the sense of separation. Which would mean God is separating himself from himself, to ask his other self the question of HOW he exists. So this would mean that God would have had to have had 'two selves' one to ask the question of how, and the other to answer the question.

See how these attributes start to get very messy when attempting to point to an actual causer of cause, when all that can be known are the unknown causer's effects?


So all in all, I guess that how will never be answered except in a story perhaps, a fictional story, in the same context of why it's very difficult for Cinderella to know her biological Father, could she ever know, or will she forever remain a lone bastard child. Poor girl.

See the problem, of claiming to have or know a God? that is like saying yes, there is a God, but I have no idea how God is God, I just know that God is.

No created being has any idea of how God is, can a machine ever know it's maker. So the creator, must be all alone, forever one with himself eternally one without a second. I mean gosh, if that's the truth, then even God himself doesn't know how he is God.

What a dilemma, wouldn't you agree?

[attofishpi]

Oh. So you think they back you? I'd be really interested to see that demonstrated. Fire away.

If you, however, had been born a Muslim, you'd have turned out exactly as you are now, an absolute literalist, the only difference being one of scripture demonstrating what a diseased mind looks like in both cases.

IC would definitley be one of those exploding Muslims.

[Dubious]

Contrary to what "Christianity" believes, I believe (as a Christian that simply believes in Christ - not all the other man made bigotry and twaddle of "christianity") that we karmically reincarnate through time. I believe that the ultimate goal for faith in Christ, is to be considered a sage and to be admitted as 'one of them' - a brotherhood of sages with Christ in the mode called 'heaven' - here on Earth. Since God permeates ALL matter, one's DNA is kept intact - my hope would be to remain at the equivalent age of 28! ..for so long as entropy permits - should be able to get at least a billion years out of the Sun before things start getting a tad out of wack..lol.

The problem I see with this is how does one get to be a sage; how many karmas must one undergo to be considered one of Christ's elite? What would the difference be between heaven here on earth compared to elsewhere which ain't here? What would all these sages or angels be doing until entropy finally settles the matter? Also, what does it help if I can't recall any of the lessons from the last time I was here? Will the next Kalpa in which entropy should once again be in its prime creative state, simply repeat the last one or will it become, in each of its eternally recurrent states, uniquely original?

No answers, only questions! You can see how confused I am! As a mere simpleton, I'm forced to default to the simplistic.

I cease upon termination as did everyone else wherever or whenever they lived including Christ and all his apostles...the next question being, what in me specifically gets reincarnated which remembers nothing of ever having had a previous existence? Is soul the answer, some kind of spiritual DNA which labels one in having a perennial SIN number, itself being thorougly devoid of personality in each instance of actual physical existence?

These are only some of my quandaries regarding any assumed reincarnation formats leading to some kind of final sage-like perfection.

Perhaps we research various faiths - perhaps I stuck with Christ_ianity for many lives through time, as He stated "To know God is through me"

Me! I'd refuse, automatically and instantly, the credentials of ANYONE who'd make such a statement.

BOY DO I KNOW GOD NOW.

The only god I'd consider as being god is the NOTHING into which EVERYTHING is born.

Oh yes, I believe in pantheism (not a Spinozan view of it though) - I believe God IS all perceivable reality + dark energy\matter - and IS a personable God contrary to the Spinozan pantheism view.

For me god begins in mystery and within the field of time. In effect, god becomes a never ceasing variable which always gets initialized according to one's ability in seeking to come to terms with it.

...anyways, such are my ramblings, the final judgement of which is all beliefs, even the belief in non-belief is only pertinent to the here and now. Ultimately, it makes no difference whether they be sublime and profound or infernally stupid or ridiculous. Once the temporary resolves itself back into nothing all views and values become equally neutralized.

To repeat that very old cliché: To each his own in which meaning expresses itself in a million different ways. The will of the temporary in some fashion always aspires to the eternal. Whether that amounts to a psychological defect I'm not qualified to say but I do think that many instances of such manifest as aftereffects in resembling a cynical type of spiritual greed only humans are capable of...Ferengis with a soul attached very well aware of the Rules of Acquisition even after death!

Life is sticky by way of memories and everything experiential which clings to it, after which there is no more stickiness!

On that theme, I'll end with a slight quatrain...

But now the twilight seems more mellow
Than all the days of remembrance past.
The hues of time from green to yellow
Shall fade to black and be blessed at last.

[Dubious]

Oh. So you think they back you? I'd be really interested to see that demonstrated. Fire away.

If you, however, had been born a Muslim, you'd have turned out exactly as you are now, an absolute literalist, the only difference being one of scripture demonstrating what a diseased mind looks like in both cases.

IC would definitley be one of those exploding Muslims.

The good thing about exploding Muslims is they only have to explode once to remain forever silent. After that, the balls of these heroic members of the Muslim faith explode to the size of a milk bottle to service the 72 virgins awaiting them.

[Immanuel Can]

That would be true if history, logic, and science were all malformations...

Oh. So you think they back you? I'd be really interested to see that demonstrated. Fire away.

If these disciplines, including ceaseless research, back the status quo of modern western civilization...

'
Oh? So that's what you think your opinions are? Yes, yes...you're the pillar the status quo, the backbone of modern Western civilization, the product of ceaseless research...

[Immanuel Can]

Then the self-contradiction must be necessary.

It can't be. That which contradicts eliminates both statements by way of the other. All one can do is affirm one, or neither, not both.

Come on now, the claim of yours that God is triune three in ONE God, being the father, son, and the holy spirit..as ONE wholly whole. Is a contradiction in the knowledge of that knowledge. Surely you must see that?

What's evident is two things, really: firstly, that God does exist, and is the First Cause of all that is. And secondly, that His self-revelation is as self-existent, which necessarily can only be the case if, as His self-revelation also proclaims, He is triune, not a monad.

Now, you ask, "How?" And at that point, I have to stop and admit the limits of human knowledge. But it would come as a great surprise, surely, if we human beings stood in possession of exhaustive knowledge of the Supreme Being. We are creatures with a small "cup," and He is greater than the Pacific Ocean by an infinite amount. So there's a certain amount of that we're just going to have to accept without being able to claim exhaustive knowledge.

Many monist, Panentheist, Pantheist, mystical, gnostic and non-dualist philosophers and theologians, you'll recall, have said exactly the same thing, really: that there comes a point when the knowledge of God simply cannot be articulated by human beings...and they have sometimes even thought that nothing about God could really be articulated at all -- paradoxically, thereby articulating at least one fact about God. I'm not nearly so glum on the prospects as they: I think our little "cup" can handle a few sips from the "Ocean." But only according to what God Himself is willing to reveal, of course; we could not get knowledge of God by any other means. The rest of us are just humans, and none has privileges above the others in this particular way -- that none has access to the knowledge of God that is not provided by God Himself.

[Fairy]

IC thanks for your reply. My response: yes, God is.

I trust only God, the one who brought me here will take me home.

All is good.

[attofishpi]

Thanks for applying that "torque" ..I suppose to the gears within your head! - can't say I've ever heard of the the use of torque as you stated, and perhaps I am misinterpreting what you implied
You certainly are a genius of contemplation and it's always a pleasure for someone of my meagre education to interlocutatively interloculate with you

So.

I must first apologise that I may have to speak of some personal empirical accounts of this entity commonly referred to as God. And certainly on my first read I am going to have disagreements as you'd expect - and empathy (to me, the most important word within the English language for us sociable 'animals' in societal progression) is important here, since your POV through life is likely lacking in empirical observation of anything convincing enough to sway you in anyway toward that awful concept of theistic belief, such that you feel the need to snack on Christ or take a dip in the Ganges. We all have our: ME_PATH_Y? (wackjob mode )

Contrary to what "Christianity" believes, I believe (as a Christian that simply believes in Christ - not all the other man made bigotry and twaddle of "christianity") that we karmically reincarnate through time. I believe that the ultimate goal for faith in Christ, is to be considered a sage and to be admitted as 'one of them' - a brotherhood of sages with Christ in the mode called 'heaven' - here on Earth. Since God permeates ALL matter, one's DNA is kept intact - my hope would be to remain at the equivalent age of 28! ..for so long as entropy permits - should be able to get at least a billion years out of the Sun before things start getting a tad out of wack..lol.

The problem I see with this is how does one get to be a sage; how many karmas must one undergo to be considered one of Christ's elite?

Not sure, but I think it takes a lot to be worth_Y of what Christ did (what he went through to instil faith in there being more to REAL_IT_Y. no matter of our own personal suffering in life) ..and I truly believe, unlike IC it takes more than simply reading scripture and just accepting it all.
I think this Divine being expects us from the outset to use the best gift humans have, intelligence, and use that intelligence to a high level of scrutiny from the opening lines of Genesis where we are expected to believe that God had some requirement to speak the universe into existence, clear nonsense, but now with our present knowledge and especially of technology--we COULD speak for a LIGHT to switch on 'Let there be light!' - Asimovs 'the last question' nailed that in a rather deep profound way.

But the point I am making, is that those opening lines of Genesis to anyone with an ounce of reasonable volition surely makes one then force themselves to QUEST_ion everything from those very opening lines onwards. To me that's intelligent of the Divine being - --- to do that.
Sorry I keep playing on words - but around 1997 when this God intelligence made itself fully aware to me, God or sages via the God system would call out words in broken ways - as I walked through the city - it forced me to interrogate words - and as such I do see an inner 'sub' logic beyond natural language etymology - the very fact that here I am talking about the veracity of the Bible and this God entity, being omnipotent (at least to our perception of reality) has permitted "BIBLE" to phonetically be identical to "buy-bull" - - as I say to friends, I don't buy bull - I don't just accept it - I analyse it - it has reason.

What would the difference be between heaven here on earth compared to elsewhere which ain't here?

I can't speak of elsewhere! It doesn't compute.

I need to tell you a few things about what the sage has directly told me..
Just a week ago God\sage stated to me "Get Heaven" -- I know what I need to do for that. - they've said it before, but i fell off the rails, wasn't living up to what is expected of me.
As I've stated before, the sage some years ago spoke to me from the aether and stated he lives in a penthouse in California. This sage chap knows my past life, you could say he knows me better that I know me - actually that's a certainty. So clearly he's lived for a long time. Who art's in heaven (the Lord's prayer) - the sages - he's likely got many skills by now, heck we may all know him as some musician, an artist. (..and art is what I was forced out to IT work to do - by God)
One morning I was considering cornflakes for breakfast then from the aether sage stated "I buy them", I actually started laughing about that considering these entites via the God system could materialise a bowl of cornflakes!! - but he still goes to the shops.
One day I asked whether there were less than 1000 sages on the planet - I was tapped heavily on my right shoulder - as in RIGHT.
One day when I was thinking about these sages ..and I can only assume it was Christ himself speaking to me from the aether this time as the voice stated "they cry when I leave the room" (around 1999 before I even knew of the sage, God stated "crying is how we show our love" - I find that to be extremely true)

So, I digress with my wackjob stuff there, sorry. HEAVEN is a mode. No harm can ever come to you, nothing can ever be stolen from you etc..GOD is throughout ALL matter and is that 'ongoing process" in real-time - like an ever present A.I.

RE elsewhere however, I have considered the possibility that HEAVEN could be so awesome, as to be able to see or even be in other worlds - other "Earths" in the Milky Way - quantum entaglement - who knows - perhaps the sages\Christ DO 'astro travel' around to other civilisations or whatever..again I digress.

What would all these sages or angels be doing until entropy finally settles the matter?

I don't believe in 'angels' nor demons from that matter. I think the sages are artists in many forms. I think they travel the world and enjoy themselves...and perhaps...who nose, perhaps they travel the galaxy in an instant. It would not surprise me, if they decided they wanted to watch my football team play live at St Mary's (they probably wouldn't, they're shit this season.. again) - they could teleport there. The stuff I've witness, I have no doubt of what Christ did, and I'm pretty certain I under_stand the reasons he did it.

Also, what does it help if I can't recall any of the lessons from the last time I was here?

But karmically you are born into the family that you deserve and will likely gain some comprehension of what you have lost (not memories, but at least your persona and analytical skills)

I actually believe that certain personality traits particularly pertaining to your ethical standards would persist with you. Of course, you could screw up in the current life, and head in a direction away from the guiding light (shit, sounding a bit ICish)

Will the next Kalpa in which entropy should once again be in its prime creative state, simply repeat the last one or will it become, in each of its eternally recurrent states, uniquely original?

Kalpa (sanskrit) or Karma? ..even still, I honestly don't understand your question.

No answers, only questions! You can see how confused I am! As a mere simpleton, I'm forced to default to the simplistic.

Well, that makes two of us simpletons, the key difference from my POV is my experience of the entity (you don't believe in) and its capabilities and my attempt to best analyse what I see as the most reasonable contemplation of IT and what that entails for us humans.

I cease upon termination as did everyone else wherever or whenever they lived including Christ and all his apostles.

Well, my argument is that your memory ceased but you - that is your point-of-view to again analyse inputs from the universe continues from rebirth. The key difference with Christ and possibly the apostles (perhaps they are also sages) - is that their memory was either 'reinstalled' or they simply never died - only perceived to have done so by other observers (it's a multidimensional thang )

..the next question being, what in me specifically gets reincarnated which remembers nothing of ever having had a previous existence?

That's the point-of-view I mentioned above. It's your perspective in a new body rebirth but as I also mention, I believe certain traits likely carry over, such as your ethical standards - for me that makes sense as a Divine being per karma would gift at least that. (of course, bad people also reincarnate so...mmm eh)

Is soul the answer, some kind of spiritual DNA which labels one in having a perennial SIN number, itself being thorougly devoid of personality in each instance of actual physical existence?

I don't think your new self is devoid as per what I stated above - and also HEY I FORGOT TO MENTION!!! The night the sage introduced himself to me for the first time - speaking from the aether a few days after Nov 13 2005 - I asked him a few questions - if I was right - I was tapped on my right knee. I asked "When we die are we judged as to what family we deserve to be reborn into?" - HEAVY taps on my right knee (don't ask Y God\sage don't just have a normal conversation - they keep their cards close to their chest it seems!)

So, yes I think you reincarnate with key personality traits, but also into the family that will assist you with the soul quest that you deserve.

May I ask wheth - scrub that - Will you answer as to whether you were born into a Christian family or other? I was born into a ""Christian"" family - NOT religious at all really, just Dad being boss and his family being a long line of Catholics. - He doesn't consider himself a Christian even to this day. Thus, I went to an RC school - and yes, I in hindsight was very impressed with the types of things we were taught - the empathy for others - love\respect - but NO you must believe this or that rubbish..there are some really wacky forms of ""Christianity"" out there - God hates gays and all that nonsense, idiots.

These are only some of my quandaries regarding any assumed reincarnation formats leading to some kind of final sage-like perfection.

Sure, please point out if I am still missing the mark!

Perhaps we research various faiths - perhaps I stuck with Christ_ianity for many lives through time, as He stated "To know God is through me"

Me! I'd refuse, automatically and instantly, the credentials of ANYONE who'd make such a statement.

WOW. Seriously - when I read your post reply this was the one thing I was really surprised by you.

I'd understand if that was ALL that Christ did - make a statement like that, wander around preaching and drop dead. But he really did do things as well as state things that have Divinity smacking us in our daft disbelieving chops! - love\respect\reality is a convoluted pile of bollocks etc..
The dude went to his death (an awful way to go - and had the power not to do so) I believe he knew his entire life that he would do that (crucifixion) around the age that he did. That is quite a burden to live with, people don't seem to consider that (theists).
God being pantheistic in nature, Christ being interfaced (as we actually all are - but God doesn't answer to us!!) - thus it was God that did these "miracles" - water to wine, lots of bread without needing a Tardis etc.. I believe God is below sub-atomic, operating below the Planck scale as I have stated many times.

So.

As Christ said "To know God\Father is through me" - I believed in Christ the entire time - even when friends brought up through the same school system as me turned into dickheads, like they didn't listen to a thing we were being taught - and insisted God was a load of ol' rubbish - didn't faze me one bit. I had that epiphany at about the age of 7 when I looked across the school football fields and the trees in the distance, and "knew" there was more to everything than what appeared obvious. Then God started kicking my arse with his wrath!!! many years later 1997 - and again, BOY DO I KNOW GOD!!

BOY DO I KNOW GOD NOW.

The only god I'd consider as being god is the NOTHING into which EVERYTHING is born.

I don't believe nothing has ever existed. However, I believe I have not always existed. (if energy cannot be created nor destroyed - surely that means thangs are always in existence)

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: I once read or saw doco that stated that nearly all of us would have an atom that once was part of Shakespeare!

Those atoms, tiny little thangs can really get about hey

Oh yes, I believe in pantheism (not a Spinozan view of it though) - I believe God IS all perceivable reality + dark energy\matter - and IS a personable God contrary to the Spinozan pantheism view.

For me god begins in mystery and within the field of time. In effect, god becomes a never ceasing variable which always gets initialized according to one's ability in seeking to come to terms with it.

...anyways, such are my ramblings, the final judgement of which is all beliefs, even the belief in non-belief is only pertinent to the here and now. Ultimately, it makes no difference whether they be sublime and profound or infernally stupid or ridiculous. Once the temporary resolves itself back into nothing all views and values become equally neutralized.

..mmm, but I don't believe that happens - (things going to nothing) - energy persists, always. I think the universe is cyclic thus God is cyclic - perhaps God also loses ITS memory when it reincarnates the universe (energy back to low entropy state)

To repeat that very old cliché: To each his own in which meaning expresses itself in a million different ways. The will of the temporary in some fashion always aspires to the eternal. Whether that amounts to a psychological defect I'm not qualified to say but I do think that many instances of such manifest as aftereffects in resembling a cynical type of spiritual greed only humans are capable of...Ferengis with a soul attached very well aware of the Rules of Acquisition even after death!

Life is sticky by way of memories and everything experiential which clings to it, after which there is no more stickiness!

Sounds a bit gooey to me (my second favourite word in the English language)

On that theme, I'll end with a slight quatrain...

But now the twilight seems more mellow
Than all the days of remembrance past.
The hues of time from green to yellow
Shall fade to black and be blessed at last.

Lovely! ..lost like tears in rain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoAzpa1x7jU

[Dubious]

Yes, yes...you're the pillar the status quo, the backbone of modern Western civilization...

Thank you! I happily and humbly accept the honor! It's about time at least one mental peon was duly edumacated!

[Dubious]

Thanks for applying that "torque" ..I suppose to the gears within your head! - can't say I've ever heard of the the use of torque as you stated, and perhaps I am misinterpreting what you implied

The grinding of uphill thoughts where torque becomes the measure, not speed.

You certainly are a genius of contemplation...

Thanks for the compliment. Nice to know I graduated from dumbo in the days of yore! I remember how my step-father often asked me to laugh like Goofy because I was so good at it!

...and it's always a pleasure for someone of my meagre education to interlocutatively interloculate with you

Happy to be of service! May I say, your interlocutions have been most revelatory to this interlocutor!

I must first apologise that I may have to speak of some personal empirical accounts of this entity commonly referred to as God. And certainly on my first read I am going to have disagreements as you'd expect

I expected no less. For anything to always overlap with one's expectations would be boring!

...and empathy (to me, the most important word within the English language for us sociable 'animals' in societal progression) is important here

...on that we are on exactly the same page. In fact back in my teen years (an eon ago) I wrote this:

May fugal empathy rise to ponder
Pantheistic in the world's wonder
And comprehend the foreign sense in all profound
Where the twilight soul may itself expound.

No idea how the rest sounded; only that is was fairly long being in a state of metaphysical rapture at the time...which reality made disappear rather quickly!

snack on Christ

Interesting phrase! I only did that in my grade school days when taking Holy Communion on Sunday mornings.

Not sure, but I think it takes a lot to be worth_Y of what Christ did (what he went through to instil faith in there being more to REAL_IT_Y. no matter of our own personal suffering in life) ..and I truly believe, unlike IC it takes more than simply reading scripture and just accepting it all.

Best stick to what gives your life meaning which isn't up to anyone, except yourself, to decide. To me what's interesting about Christ is the history of how a non-entity became a 2000 year old influence which still hasn't ceased.

I think this Divine being expects us from the outset to use the best gift humans have, intelligence, and use that intelligence to a high level of scrutiny...

If so, this divine being, based on our history and behavior, has every reason to be extremely disappointed in the outcome.

Sorry I keep playing on words - but around 1997 when this God intelligence made itself fully aware to me, God or sages via the God system would call out words in broken ways - as I walked through the city - it forced me to interrogate words - and as such I do see an inner 'sub' logic beyond natural language etymology - the very fact that here I am talking about the veracity of the Bible and this God entity, being omnipotent (at least to our perception of reality) has permitted "BIBLE" to phonetically be identical to "buy-bull" - - as I say to friends, I don't buy bull - I don't just accept it - I analyse it - it has reason.

That is a very interesting statement which deserves to be further examined as a kind of interrogation method I haven't heard of before...the inner sub-logic of words hyphenated into separate sounds conjugated into a single meaning offering a different perspective on the original complete word...if I got that right! In essence, it's the metaphor of a word instead of the usual metaphors conveyed in strict sentences. Don't know if I got any of this right or at least partially so!

For me, this is another instance of the unique operations the human brain is capable of. In the sense of being exceptional, it also becomes sage-like.

HEAVEN is a mode. No harm can ever come to you, nothing can ever be stolen from you etc..GOD is throughout ALL matter and is that 'ongoing process" in real-time - like an ever present A.I.

The eternal oblivion which follows death wouldn't preempt a single sentence of what you stated here. If heaven is a mode, who can say if heaven itself is not a mode or transcendent state of non-existence...being one definition of what Nirvana could be! But all this is getting too metaphysical, meaning too unreal!

RE elsewhere however, I have considered the possibility that HEAVEN could be so awesome, as to be able to see or even be in other worlds

I can also imagine heaven as single intense instance of total stillness in time that can be recalled offering consolation for the remainder of one's days...which I don't expect to ever happen to me.

Kalpa (sanskrit) or Karma? ..even still, I honestly don't understand your question.

Kalpa, as the resetting of the universe - theoretically - in which the play of Karma once again plays out. If some events are the same as those in the previous edition, they only reveal themselves as a statistic of the physics involved.

Well, that makes two of us simpletons, the key difference from my POV is my experience of the entity (you don't believe in) and its capabilities and my attempt to best analyse what I see as the most reasonable contemplation of IT and what that entails for us humans.

That's the best anyone can do never knowing the current state of the universe and what it may engender in each of its following moments. I'm not sure god would know even as an AI entity.

Will you answer as to whether you were born into a Christian family or other?

My reply to your Snack on Christ phrase will tell you the temporary condition I was in until the priest I confessed to excomunicated me and told me I was no-longer a Christian for having missed Sunday Mass a few times.

there are some really wacky forms of ""Christianity"" out there - God hates gays and all that nonsense, idiots.

Isn't it strange that somehow god always manages to love or hate what humans have always loved or hated. It's definitely a case where the old refrain "god with us" or in German, "Gott mit uns" takes on a whole new meaning. Yes indeed! Isn't life strange!
https://www.google.com/search?sca_upv=1 ... R2juo,st:0

BOY DO I KNOW GOD!!

It's not my right or desire to refute whatever experience you may have or have had with any god entity whether it be Jesus or some other. To me what makes the experience valid is the fact that you have it and cannot be denied. However, the content of it, bluntly put, remains far beyond my range of acceptance, in terms of credibility and probability and that won't ever change. If god is pantheistic in nature, which I won't deny, Christ is a wholly separate subject who comes across to me as mortal as mortal can be blending completely within the time, place, events, and customs of his Jewish heritage during that period.

I don't believe nothing has ever existed.

I refer to nothing as the incipient, indispensable state from which all subsequent existence emerges. But you're right in saying that such has never existed since even the void has been proven to consist of vast fields of energy with the potential to coalese and organize itself into creation.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: I once read or saw doco that stated that nearly all of us would have an atom that once was part of Shakespeare!

The same is said of Julius Caesar. What's even more incredible is that some of the water molecules contained in a fresh glass of water may once have passed through the urinary tract of a dinosaur.

I don't believe that happens - (things going to nothing - energy persists, always)

I agree, but energy itself has no ID, it only has function. If your existence dissolves once again into the energy which created you then your minute contribution merely recycles itself into that from whence it came.

[attofishpi]

...and it's always a pleasure for someone of my meagre education to interlocutatively interloculate with you

Happy to be of service! May I say, your interlocutions have been most revelatory to this interlocutor!

Well thank you, but I always hope to inflict or perhaps I should say, inflect an epiphany upon someone, but I must say it's still hard yards.

...and empathy (to me, the most important word within the English language for us sociable 'animals' in societal progression) is important here

...on that we are on exactly the same page. In fact back in my teen years (an eon ago) I wrote this:

May fugal empathy rise to ponder
Pantheistic in the world's wonder
And comprehend the foreign sense in all profound
Where the twilight soul may itself expound.

No idea how the rest sounded; only that is was fairly long being in a state of metaphysical rapture at the time...which reality made disappear rather quickly!

Love it, you were clearly a very deep and intelligent youthling and you MUST post the rest, if not in this thread but quote me in to see the entirety perhaps in the poetry thread.

snack on Christ

Interesting phrase! I only did that in my grade school days when taking Holy Communion on Sunday mornings.

Not sure, but I think it takes a lot to be worth_Y of what Christ did (what he went through to instil faith in there being more to REAL_IT_Y. no matter of our own personal suffering in life) ..and I truly believe, unlike IC it takes more than simply reading scripture and just accepting it all.

Best stick to what gives your life meaning which isn't up to anyone, except yourself, to decide. To me what's interesting about Christ is the history of how a non-entity became a 2000 year old influence which still hasn't ceased.

So you don't believe in this Jesus character even existed?

I think this Divine being expects us from the outset to use the best gift humans have, intelligence, and use that intelligence to a high level of scrutiny...

If so, this divine being, based on our history and behavior, has every reason to be extremely disappointed in the outcome.

..but there is still no outcome (that "ongoing process"). Certainly there is a lot of awful results especially where wo/men get a taste of power.

I'm not so sure the Divine being would be disappointed beyond having to auto make decisions on the karmic fate of those of his_story -- of those that lost faith and became materialistic, selfish, evil etc..for short-gained short of sight personal "gain".

Sorry I keep playing on words - but around 1997 when this God intelligence made itself fully aware to me, God or sages via the God system would call out words in broken ways - as I walked through the city - it forced me to interrogate words - and as such I do see an inner 'sub' logic beyond natural language etymology - the very fact that here I am talking about the veracity of the Bible and this God entity, being omnipotent (at least to our perception of reality) has permitted "BIBLE" to phonetically be identical to "buy-bull" - - as I say to friends, I don't buy bull - I don't just accept it - I analyse it - it has reason.

That is a very interesting statement which deserves to be further examined as a kind of interrogation method I haven't heard of before...the inner sub-logic of words hyphenated into separate sounds conjugated into a single meaning offering a different perspective on the original complete word...if I got that right! In essence, it's the metaphor of a word instead of the usual metaphors conveyed in strict sentences. Don't know if I got any of this right or at least partially so!

Likely you've seen my banging on about the "inner" logic to KEY words within English *the common world language now* -that certainly were not formed naturally..

It's very hard to LIVE when God is doing EVIL to you - word reversal.
A man's best friend is a DOG - reverse GOD - (God can be your worst enemy - if you continually eat from the Tree of Know_LEDGE)
BARK up the Tree of Know_LEDGE SAP LEAVE
A dog (our 'best friend' through time has protected us - it BARKS) BARK protects the tree. Rings within the tree store the LOG - of time - LOG_IC we can deduce the past from those rings within old trees. SAP (a fool) feed the tree nutrients. (I cannot remember the amount of times sage stated "SAP" to me ---- I was a fool, I kept "eating" of the Tree, crossed the line many times - the line set by my sage)...and finally LEAVE - - leaves leave the tree - also in the US you call that season FALL - of course a homophone to fool.
..all those nutrients returning to the roots - the cycle of life.

So, I do see in Genesis a great reasoning to the mentioning of the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge - ----> this stuff was not invented for story time by mere men - it has great REASON - and only comes to fruition NOW within the global LAN_GAUGE - ENGLISH.

None of that (word construction\phonetics) was just chance, coincidence..

Don't get me started on the phonetics of vowels that are identical to words..
HELL_O
YOU
U_O_Y?

..and of course Christ made the big why symbol on the crucifix? Why did HE do it----Y ?

Chess Jurist <--- anagram of Jesus Christ

Chess Jurist and the Passage of Time

HEAVEN is a mode. No harm can ever come to you, nothing can ever be stolen from you etc..GOD is throughout ALL matter and is that 'ongoing process" in real-time - like an ever present A.I.

The eternal oblivion which follows death wouldn't preempt a single sentence of what you stated here.

What eternal oblivion? I have already stated that there is nothing explicitly stated in the Bible that one must die prior to HEAVEN...and remember, I am insisting that reincarnation is the truth. (if you think there is nothing that could make that a plausible fact, then I'd like to hear it)

I've experience far too much of HELL and little snippets of HEAVEN - something I should pull my shit together for, get on the path the sage wants from me, and earn it - be worth_Y of it..........by being my BEST.

If heaven is a mode, who can say if heaven itself is not a mode or transcendent state of non-existence...being one definition of what Nirvana could be! But all this is getting too metaphysical, meaning too unreal!

Sure, not into that - when I see spiritual waffle, "transcendental" etc...I see a shortcoming in comprehension of REAL_IT_Y and short of sight of what is not so difficult to comprehend.

If you want me to expand on how "heaven" mode works - re what I stated - that one is basically "untouchable", sure I will!

RE elsewhere however, I have considered the possibility that HEAVEN could be so awesome, as to be able to see or even be in other worlds

I can also imagine heaven as single intense instance of total stillness in time that can be recalled offering consolation for the remainder of one's days...which I don't expect to ever happen to me.

..well that sounds fucking boring anyway - count me out

Kalpa (sanskrit) or Karma? ..even still, I honestly don't understand your question.

Kalpa, as the resetting of the universe - theoretically - in which the play of Karma once again plays out. If some events are the same as those in the previous edition, they only reveal themselves as a statistic of the physics involved.

Ah, I thought perhaps that was the contemplation you were alluding to and it's an interesting point.

So if I am correct, you are talking about the universe having a reset of itself.
A theory I have - that God's intelligence having formed from chaos - a place of no logic, no order, no causality. Thus, anyone that has the infinite regress issue where "ok, you state God started everything, then what started God?" - obviously a very reasonable question, yet here there is NO infinite regress since one cannot regress backwards infinitely since eventually there is no logic, no causality. (it would suggest God eventually formed from random chance)
Thus my theory of maximum entropy of energy - chaos indeed - and eventually forming into logic, from whence God forms its intelligence, forming matter and causality and eventually us - a subset of IT - until the progression of entropy increases to the point where energy returns to disorder, chaos all over again (cyclically). The ol' energy cannot be created nor destroyed - it cycles in form - and since God is pantheistic - that IS God.

(tapped on my right knee!!) <-- sorry, just had to state what just happened as I type - I don't withhold information

So.

Getting back to your point of "If some events are the same as those in the previous edition, they only reveal themselves as a statistic of the physics involved." --- I don't think beyond the formation of atoms that any events would repeat. It would seem like a different universe, with the same physics, but from anything for life/intelligent beings that form -no repetition- however, this new instance of God\universe may still feel it necessary to carry out certain things (even with no memory of its prior instance of a universe) - such that something akin to our religions may form, and even the ultimate - forming incarnate as man and yadayada - dare I say, a Christ, a sacrifice, a poignant reminder that life aint a joke. Remember, some entities are incarnated as lesser than wo/man - do we live our lives worthy of our incarnation? - a bit of a digression - but G-damn we are lucky when you consider it all.

Will you answer as to whether you were born into a Christian family or other?

My reply to your Snack on Christ phrase will tell you the temporary condition I was in until the priest I confessed to excomunicated me and told me I was no-longer a Christian for having missed Sunday Mass a few times.

..you must tell us what it was you confessed to!! -- and what ridiculous form of """Christian""" denomination it was? ..USA RC!?

MASS is an interesting word considering "I am the light" -

..but honestly - what kind of a "Christian" was that pillock of a priest! The only times I went to Sunday Mass was in the lead up to my confirmation seven years old - it was expected of me - I picked my confirmation name as Peter (I liked Peter Pan)

there are some really wacky forms of ""Christianity"" out there - God hates gays and all that nonsense, idiots.

Isn't it strange that somehow god always manages to love or hate what humans have always loved or hated.

I understand your point but I have to point out that you fully have your atheist 'lens' on. Christ was contrary to that - I can't love my enemies as Christ insists! -- I do try - that empathy thang n all!

BOY DO I KNOW GOD!!

It's not my right or desire to refute whatever experience you may have or have had with any god entity whether it be Jesus or some other. To me what makes the experience valid is the fact that you have it and cannot be denied. However, the content of it, bluntly put, remains far beyond my range of acceptance, in terms of credibility and probability and that won't ever change.

Apart from "and that won't ever change" ...which I must say I think is not a wise statement since the future may unfold things contrary to what you previously held as not credible or probable.

So you are certain that it is not plausible that there could be an intelligence behind the makeup of what you perceive of reality? (your own brain excluded )

Thus, you don't see me ever providing evidence to convince you that we are within a God-system - an intelligence operating at the backbone to what we perceive of reality?

If god is pantheistic in nature, which I won't deny, Christ is a wholly separate subject who comes across to me as mortal as mortal can be blending completely within the time, place, events, and customs of his Jewish heritage during that period.

What do you mean that you won't deny that god is pantheistic in nature? <-- are you using the Spinozan concept of "god"?

So, no. God IS pantheistic in nature - and is a willing personable intelligent entity that provides our perceivable reality as that "on going process" - - ..and Christ (I believe) is what this pantheistic entity formed into - that wo/man is God's preferred form for intelligent beings - and Christ is God incarnate as man. You mention Jewish heritage so I will mention that their, Judaic prophesy of a Messiah that would provide the 'promised' Israel was actually fulfilled by Christ (in a convoluted way) Christianity spread throughout Europe - then the new world USA and these predominantly Christian countries protect the land of Israel - mapped out - I think the 'Balfour Agreement' - British stipulating the land for the Judaic people.
Of course the Jews will never accept the story of Christ - when he arrived on the scene around the year 0 he was, as he is now - not answerable to any "priesthood" - he was a rather anarchist to the establishment and Y not - he's the BIG 1 - just needed a few worthy men to witness and the rest is his_story.

I don't believe that happens - (things going to nothing - energy persists, always)

I agree, but energy itself has no ID, it only has function. If your existence dissolves once again into the energy which created you then your minute contribution merely recycles itself into that from whence it came.

My existence is my entire atomic structure - all of which will move on to other pastures! - what makes me a living being however, according to what I am aware, incarnates on as a living being - karmically - until one of two things happen. I not longer exist for the rest of eternity or I exist for so long as entropy permits all intact, memories and all - sagedom for the win!!