compatibilism

So what's really going on?

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henry quirk
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Re: compatibilism

Post by henry quirk »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2024 9:13 pm
I wish buggy would pick one...

Them fulminatin' objectfyin' pieces of determined meat can't help themselves.

...or....

*Them fulminatin' objectifyin' free wills are a'fear'd of me.

He won't, he can't, cuz then his schtick is done and he'll have to write a whole new script.

See he wants it both ways. He wants to wear the pretty pink sash of determinism so he can assess any-one or -thing as he likes, with impunity (I'm not responsible!), but everyone else, he wants them to wear the ugly black lapel pin of free will (See? They're all afraid of me!). Such a claim, though, is just too much, so he hems and haws and fiddles and farts.

I better stop now: his ego is LARGE enough.




*it's of course not possible at least some of those fulminatin' objectifyin' free wills simply know he's a shameless sack of crap with a condition.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by Iwannaplato »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:58 pm
Well, yes, I agree.

It reminds me of a recent post of Age's...
It is like some of you posters here are so frustrated because I have, once again, said and proposed some thing here, in this 'eating meat' thread, which has not yet been refuted by any of you, once more, and which is also just self justified, and this 'frustration' is really 'niggling' away at you so you come up with these absolutely ridiculous claims like only one call, to the 'right place/people', and "age" will lose its internet access. But, this also could not happen to absolutely anyone else.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by Iwannaplato »

shamer wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:44 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:01 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 3:45 pm

Does he think you're just supposed to smack the word "existentially" in the middle of sentences to sound smart?

How does one being rubbed the wrong way "existentially" differ from just being rubbed the wrong way, without the word "existentially"?
I'd think the more amazing part is what rubs Iambiguous the wrong way. I mean, it rubs me the wrong way when people walk onto the bike path without looking. I have slightly (ironic word choice) stronger feelings about being put in a re-education camp, say. Then there's the implicit moral objectivism, hush, hush.

It irked me when they killed my whole family for being Jews.
It ruffled my feathers when I was sentenced the hard labor in Siberia for 20 years.
I despise people who step out into the bike lane while talking on their cell phone and not looking back.
I HATE :D
Obviously, I know the feeling. So, do you both believe in determinism AND hold them responsible for their actions?
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Re: compatibilism

Post by henry quirk »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:53 am
henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:58 pm
Well, yes, I agree.

It reminds me of a recent post of Age's...
It is like some of you posters here are so frustrated because I have, once again, said and proposed some thing here, in this 'eating meat' thread, which has not yet been refuted by any of you, once more, and which is also just self justified, and this 'frustration' is really 'niggling' away at you so you come up with these absolutely ridiculous claims like only one call, to the 'right place/people', and "age" will lose its internet access. But, this also could not happen to absolutely anyone else.
In a way: buggy & age are very much alike.
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iambiguous
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Re: compatibilism

Post by iambiguous »

Determinism versus Determinism
Nurana Rajabova is determined to sort it out.
However, [Hume] was also a sceptic about causation in the metaphysical sense. For, as we’ve seen, Hume argued that causal necessity is a relation that a mind comes up with based on the constant effects it perceives; but the mind is never capable of perceiving the actual cause.
Ever and always however it would seem to come back around to how far back you go in an attempt to explain the mind. Back to God? Back to the Big Bang? Back to the multiverse?
For instance, if I see one ball moved by another ball, what I experience is a ball in different positions. I infer that the movement of one ball was caused by the other one hitting it, but in reality I never perceive the actual power or cause – how one ball caused the other to move.
Okay, but what if they were cannonballs? What if they were being used to kill others rather than to reposition a billiard ball? What if the balls being used were embedded in conflicting goods? Like, for example, those being used by athletes at the Olympics in competitions that might involve doping or transgender politics or cheating. Think Eight Men Out. Think Lance Armstrong. Think Tom Brady and Deflategate.

As for "the actual power or cause", this takes us to the part where we focus in on why anything exists at all...or why it exists as it does and not some other way. The part, in other words, where we grapple with things like the ontological and teleological explanation for existence itself. If it even has one. Then the "four fundamental forces at work in the universe: the strong force, the weak force, the electromagnetic force, and the gravitational force."

Why?

And, sure, if one day scientists and/or philosophers provide us with the best of all possible explanations for that, they may be able to explain as well how biological matter was able to evolve into the human brain here on planet Earth.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by iambiguous »

The Corner!
Right, Pedro?

:wink:
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Re: compatibilism

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Criticising Strawson’s Compatibilism
Nurana Rajabova is wary of an attempt to dismiss determinism to keep free will.
The belief that human beings have moral responsibility is used to judge people based on their actions, then to reward or punish them accordingly. But is this just?
Back to that again. But if every single thing we think, feel, say and do is "somehow" compelled by whatever explanation there is for the existence of the laws of matter themselves, then justice is just another inherent/necessary manifestation of the only possible reality in turn. And, as well, some are compelled to argue for this, others against it.
This question becomes unavoidable when the theory of determinism enters the discussion.
Or, as I am more inclined to suggest, when these theoretical dicussions make contact with actual flesh and blood human interactions...relationships that go well beyond a world of words. Unless, again, this too is just six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Determinists claim that every event or occurrence in the world, including human desires, thoughts, and acts, are predetermined by physical laws of cause and effect.
But what they can't pin down is whether or not the claim itself is just another domino toppling over on cue going back to...the Big Bang? The multiverse?
In such a world there is no space for free will, since any person’s action at any time could not have been different, if all the physical conditions causing it remain the same. As there is no human free will, say the determinists, there can be no moral responsibility either.
Unless, of course, "somehow" the soft determinists among us are able to convince me that compatibilism actually makes sense.
At the other end of the axis stand libertarians who also view the two phenomena as incompatible, yet the theory they reject is determinism, as they believe that humans do possess free will.
Then the part where I argue that accepting something as true solely because you were never able to reject it as false makes sense...how?

The part that continues to [compelled or otherwise] baffle me the most:
Therefore, assigning moral responsibility is justifiable according to their view. In-between these two positions are the compatibilists, who claim that determinism and moral responsibility are not mutually exclusive after all. Different compatibilists explain this with different arguments.
That in and of itself might be no less entangled in the gap between what we think we understand about the human condition and all that we don't even know about existence itself.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by Iwannaplato »

iambiguous wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 11:25 pm Criticising Strawson’s Compatibilism
Nurana Rajabova is wary of an attempt to dismiss determinism to keep free will.
The belief that human beings have moral responsibility is used to judge people based on their actions, then to reward or punish them accordingly. But is this just?
She (?) doesn't seem to notice the irony of suggesting it isn't just.
Mull........
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Re: compatibilism

Post by iambiguous »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:49 pm
iambiguous wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 11:25 pm Criticising Strawson’s Compatibilism
Nurana Rajabova is wary of an attempt to dismiss determinism to keep free will.
The belief that human beings have moral responsibility is used to judge people based on their actions, then to reward or punish them accordingly. But is this just?
She (?) doesn't seem to notice the irony of suggesting it isn't just.
Mull........
Irony would seem to be built right into any discussion among human beings regarding free will....given both The Gap and Rummy's Rule. Back again [and again and again and again] to this assessment:
All of this going back to how the matter we call the human brain was "somehow" able to acquire autonomy when non-living matter "somehow" became living matter "somehow" became conscious matter "somehow" became self-conscious matter.

Then those here who actually believe that what they believe about all of this reflects, what, the ontological truth about the human condition itself?

Then those who are compelled in turn to insist on a teleological component as well. Usually in the form of one or another God.

Meanwhile, philosophers and scientists and theologians have been grappling with this profound mystery now for thousands of years.
How could it not be considerably ironic for any mere mortal in a No God to assert that his or her own assessment of rewards and punishments reflects the optimal or the only rational understanding of the human brain? Anyone here care to give it a try?

That's the whole point of my using "click" here. I note it while at the same time having to acknowledge I may well be noting it wrong...or noting it only because I was never able not to.

In the interim, I am waiting for a Libertarian sort here to insist that he or she can in fact connect the dots between their theoretical arguments about human autonomy up in the philosophical clouds and the exact manner in which the brain scientists are able to confirm chemically and neurologically how that actually does unfold.

Uh, with or without God?
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Re: compatibilism

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iambiguous wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:23 amI am waiting for a Libertarian...to...connect the dots between (his)...arguments about human autonomy...and the exact manner in which the brain scientists are able to confirm chemically and neurologically how that actually does unfold.
And I'm still waiting for a necessitarian/nihilist to connect the dots between his argument about the lack of human autonomy and the exact manner in which brain scientists are able to confirm this lack chemically and neurologically.

Shameless! With a condition? :wink:

Like age, in another thread, you want proof. I never promised you, offered you, or boasted about having, proof. I offered evidence. You rejected it.

C'est la vie.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by accelafine »

.
Last edited by accelafine on Sat Aug 24, 2024 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by iambiguous »

Note to the bots:

Click.
It's your call.
Again.

8)
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Re: compatibilism

Post by Iwannaplato »

iambiguous wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:23 am In the interim, I am waiting for a Libertarian sort here to insist that he or she can in fact connect the dots between their theoretical arguments about human autonomy up in the philosophical clouds and the exact manner in which the brain scientists are able to confirm chemically and neurologically how that actually does unfold.
Libertairans are not compatibilists, so this might be the wrong thread to wait in.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by Iwannaplato »

iambiguous wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:23 am Criticising Strawson’s Compatibilism
Nurana Rajabova is wary of an attempt to dismiss determinism to keep free will.
The belief that human beings have moral responsibility is used to judge people based on their actions, then to reward or punish them accordingly. But is this just?
She (?) doesn't seem to notice the irony of suggesting it isn't just.
Mull........
Irony would seem to be built right into any discussion among human beings regarding free will....given both The Gap and Rummy's Rule. Back again [and again and again and again] to this assessment:
That's true, I think, but she could have avoided this particular irony and self-contradiction by listening to herself, if she is a she.
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Re: compatibilism

Post by Iwannaplato »

accelafine wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 3:43 am So this pile of dogshit gets 290 pages of replies? What a bunch of fucking misogynistic cunts on here. You don't deserve this forum.
You used the word dogshit so you're an animal pedophile coprophiliac. Take you nasty sexual proclivities to a forum where that fits in.
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