henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:43 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 4:34 ameven where there is absolutely no proof at all for all of these things?
There's quite a bit of evidence (entropy and expansion, for example) for the universe's beginning, far more than there is for it, the universe, being eternal.
LOL Proof absolutely always outweighs any evidence at all. For example, there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun revolves around the earth, but there is no 'proof' that the sun revolves around the earth. So, once again, there is absolutely no proof, at all, for all of those things.
Just saying things like, 'Science tells us the universe had a beginning, and common sense tells us there can be no infinite regress', in absolutely no way at all means that the Universe had a beginning, and thus is not eternal.
Also, 'science', itself, does not speak, nor tell you human beings, any thing at all. 'Science', itself, is some thing that you human beings do, instead.
Now, for absolutely any one who would like to have a 'look at' and 'discuss' how, irrefutably, 'evidence' of 'expansion' is just like 'the evidence' that the sun revolves around the earth is 'not proof' of what actually happens and occurs, then please let 'us' do it. (Obviously this is only for those who are open and want to 'see' what the actual Truth is exactly. As for the others 'we' will let you believe what you want to believe is true.)
Entropy and expansion are, again, just 'assumptions' about what happens and occurs, in relation to the Universe, Itself. And, the reason why so-called 'data' and/or 'evidence' for these things can be clearly explained, just like the 'observing' and 'seeing' of the sun revolving around the earth is not actual Accurate and Correct 'data' nor 'evidence' that the sun does actually revolve around the earth. But, again and obviously, the actual Truth can only be explained to and understood by those who are not holding some pre-existing belief nor presumption.
Look "henry quirk" you can remain holding the presumption that there is quite a bit of evidence that the Universe began till the day that 'you' are no more, but just remember that there were quite a lot of other adult human beings who kept believing that there was, so-called, 'quite a bit of evidence that the sun, and everything else, revolved around the earth, as well.
So, once more for those slow of learning, 'evidence' is not actual 'proof'. See, 'proof' is irrefutable, whereas 'evidence' will always remain refutable.
The difference between 'evidence' and 'proof' is like the difference between 'believing' and 'knowing'.
Although, and obviously, in some countries some people believe otherwise.
See, until the actual definitions of the words are being used are discussed, agreed upon, and accepted things like, what the actual Truth is exactly, will never come to be known, well by some of 'you' anyway.
Why the so-called 'data' is so-called 'evidence' that the Universe began is solely because of the Wrong or faulty way 'interpretations' are made. Just like the way the 'observation', and thus 'data' and 'evidence', of seeing a sun revolve around the earth was just another faulty and Wrong 'interpretation' of what the actual, irrefutable, Truth is, exactly.
There is no actual 'proof' that the Universe began. But, to some, they have 'interpreted' the 'data', the 'observation', as 'evidence' that the Universe began. And, very unfortunately, for some, they have them decided to believe or presume that the Universe began.
And for any one who is curious as to why the 'interpretation' of the 'data' as being 'evidence' for a beginning, and expanding, Universe is faulty and Wrong, then just ask me, and then I will explain fully.
