What if all troubles are works of Satan?

[attofishpi]

Do you believe that God cannot control the entropy?

Dunno.

I know. Anything that can be destroyed can be created. Therefore, God could control the entropy.

I don't believe God created the universe. I think it more likely God is a result of the universe forming logic (inc. time) from chaos. I believe this is how the universe cycles - (chaos max entropy to order low entropy <---cycled)

I don't think so. We know well that the Sun formed from dust, mainly Hydrogen and Helium. All planets including Earth formed from Heavier elements like Iron and the like.

So you don't believe God spoke the Sun into existence, but you do believe that Christ would return to Earth and manage to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?

I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not.

But you believe that if Jesus is the Christ that he will pop back to Earth to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?

[bahman]

Dunno.

I know. Anything that can be destroyed can be created. Therefore, God could control the entropy.

I don't believe God created the universe. I think it more likely God is a result of the universe forming logic (inc. time) from chaos. I believe this is how the universe cycles - (chaos max entropy to order low entropy <---cycled)

You are mixing things. We are the result of Chaos.

So you don't believe God spoke the Sun into existence, but you do believe that Christ would return to Earth and manage to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?

I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not.

But you believe that if Jesus is the Christ that he will pop back to Earth to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?

I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not. If He does not come to save us then He is not Christ. Anyhow we have been waiting long enough, 2024 years!

[attofishpi]

I know. Anything that can be destroyed can be created. Therefore, God could control the entropy.

I don't believe God created the universe. I think it more likely God is a result of the universe forming logic (inc. time) from chaos. I believe this is how the universe cycles - (chaos max entropy to order low entropy <---cycled)

You are mixing things. We are the result of Chaos.

I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not.

But you believe that if Jesus is the Christ that he will pop back to Earth to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?

I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not. If He does not come to save us then He is not Christ. Anyhow we have been waiting long enough, 2024 years!

So you think God expects intelligent minds to believe everything literally in the bible?

I don't. I think the 'faith' thing is part of the TEST of the TEST_A,MEN_T

[bahman]

I don't believe God created the universe. I think it more likely God is a result of the universe forming logic (inc. time) from chaos. I believe this is how the universe cycles - (chaos max entropy to order low entropy <---cycled)

You are mixing things. We are the result of Chaos.

But you believe that if Jesus is the Christ that he will pop back to Earth to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?

I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not. If He does not come to save us then He is not Christ. Anyhow we have been waiting long enough, 2024 years!

So you think God expects intelligent minds to believe everything literally in the bible?

Well, if the Bible is open to interpretation then we would never know the truth through studying it alone!

I don't. I think the 'faith' thing is part of the TEST of the TEST_A,MEN_T

Why should we be tested? We are born innocent!

[promethean75]

"We are born innocent!"

Speak for yourself, pal. My great great great great great great great great grandfather stole a mule once from his neighbor and cheated on his wife.... and I'm guilty af and payin for it, becuz of him.

[bahman]

"We are born innocent!"

Speak for yourself, pal. My great great great great great great great great grandfather stole a mule once from his neighbor and cheated on his wife.... and I'm guilty af and payin for it, becuz of him.

You haven't done anything wrong when you were born! Did you? What you did when you were younger was the result of what you have been through!

[attofishpi]

You are mixing things. We are the result of Chaos.


I said this before. I don't know whether Jesus is Christ or not. If He does not come to save us then He is not Christ. Anyhow we have been waiting long enough, 2024 years!

So you think God expects intelligent minds to believe everything literally in the bible?

Well, if the Bible is open to interpretation then we would never know the truth through studying it alone!

Of course the bible is open to interpretation. You DO find the truth via your own intelligence - IF U R WISE ENOUGH.

I don't. I think the 'faith' thing is part of the TEST of the TEST_A,MEN_T

Why should we be tested? We are born innocent!

If you want the TRUTH you must be TESTED - I don't make the rules. Born of innocence is irrelevant, however we R reincarnated through time per karma.

[promethean75]

"You haven't done anything wrong when you were born! Did you? "

In fact i did do something wrong. I didn't immediately murder my parents and get a new better set.

[bahman]

So you think God expects intelligent minds to believe everything literally in the bible?

Well, if the Bible is open to interpretation then we would never know the truth through studying it alone!

Of course the bible is open to interpretation. You DO find the truth via your own intelligence - IF U R WISE ENOUGH.

Are you wise enough? If yes then what is your interpretation of the end of time?

I don't. I think the 'faith' thing is part of the TEST of the TEST_A,MEN_T

Why should we be tested? We are born innocent!

If you want the TRUTH you must be TESTED - I don't make the rules. Born of innocence is irrelevant, however we R reincarnated through time per karma.

Finding the truth has nothing to do with being tested. You find the truth through thinking.

[bahman]

"You haven't done anything wrong when you were born! Did you? "

In fact i did do something wrong. I didn't immediately murder my parents and get a new better set.

Ok, that is a good joke.

[promethean75]

"So I build the hardware, write an extremely complex bunch of s/w algorithms that interact with each other through time - doesn't mean I can determine everything of the future of the machine."

No, u missed the point of my post.

U tried to use the example of u writing a compooter program that, despite your having created it and therefore designing what it is able to do, could nontheless act unpredictably, and that these terms must also stand for any creator of the universe.

The difference between u and a creator of the universe is that u didn't also design the things that could cause the program to malfunction, so what the program will do cannot be known or determined by u in advance. This is a bad analogy.

God would have created everything, including the things that might corrupt his compooter program, so there is nothing the program can or can not do that is undetermined, uncaused or unknown by god.

If the program goes haywire, whatever causes it is also designed by god to act exactly as it does and cause it to go haywire.

Capiche?

[promethean75]

"But you believe that if Jesus is the Christ that he will pop back to Earth to judge 7 billion people individually and throw the naughty ones into a furnace?"

Note: the threat of hell only scares people who aren't already living in a hell.

Most people will issue a blood curtling scream of agony when they get there. Others will be like 'lol... you've got to be kidding me'.

[attofishpi]

"So I build the hardware, write an extremely complex bunch of s/w algorithms that interact with each other through time - doesn't mean I can determine everything of the future of the machine."

No, u missed the point of my post.

U tried to use the example of u writing a compooter program that, despite your having created it and therefore designing what it is able to do, could nontheless act unpredictably, and that these terms must also stand for any creator of the universe.

The difference between u and a creator of the universe is that u didn't also design the things that could cause the program to malfunction, so what the program will do cannot be known or determined by u in advance. This is a bad analogy.

No I didn't miss your point, I just think it's wrong. Whether or not I designed the things that could cause a program to malfunction or not is irrelevant.

God would have created everything, including the things that might corrupt his compooter program, so there is nothing the program can or can not do that is undetermined, uncaused or unknown by god.

What do you mean by corruption of a computer program, u seem to be implying that a malfuntion is the ONLY reason God could have for having a non-determined universe. This is bollocks.

If the program goes haywire, whatever causes it is also designed by god to act exactly as it does and cause it to go haywire.

Again, irrelevant.
MY POINT IS: That everything within a SYSTEM that I create, does not then follow that I will know with any degree of certainty the future outcome of said system. The same applies to GOD. Just because GOD "created" everything does not mean that everything that follows is determinable by GOD - each period of time adds to a reduction in the determinable nature of the system. It becomes more undetermined - that is to say if I know the entire state of the system at time point zero - time of Christ's death, I have more chance to determine the state of things 10 years into the future 10AD than I do at 1000AD and so on. From any point of time the more time that elapses then the more unpredicable/undetermined the state.

[attofishpi]

Well, if the Bible is open to interpretation then we would never know the truth through studying it alone!

Of course the bible is open to interpretation. You DO find the truth via your own intelligence - IF U R WISE ENOUGH.

Are you wise enough? If yes then what is your interpretation of the end of time?

The end of time would simply be the end of events (causality).

Why should we be tested? We are born innocent!

If you want the TRUTH you must be TESTED - I don't make the rules. Born of innocence is irrelevant, however we R reincarnated through time per karma.

Finding the truth has nothing to do with being tested. You find the truth through thinking.

Says the guy that still thinks weird crap like there are demons talking to him. If you had more faith in Christ, you'd actually learn about the true nature of reality REAL_IT_Y - that God did not program into the system little demons to annoy you.

Yes GOD and the sages TEST your thinking. (well, they do with me)

[bahman]

Of course the bible is open to interpretation. You DO find the truth via your own intelligence - IF U R WISE ENOUGH.

Are you wise enough? If yes then what is your interpretation of the end of time?

The end of time would simply be the end of events (causality).

So, there would be no Heaven and Hell!?

If you want the TRUTH you must be TESTED - I don't make the rules. Born of innocence is irrelevant, however we R reincarnated through time per karma.

Finding the truth has nothing to do with being tested. You find the truth through thinking.

Says the guy that still thinks weird crap like there are demons talking to him. If you had more faith in Christ, you'd actually learn about the true nature of reality REAL_IT_Y - that God did not program into the system little demons to annoy you.

Yes GOD and the sages TEST your thinking. (well, they do with me)

I think you are mixing intention with thinking!