Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:26 pm
Daniel McKay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:18 pm
Harbal: I think I made some fairly clear claims there. I'm not sure what you think is "nothingy" about them.
Making claims without providing any justification for them doesn't really amount to much, does it?
For the God thing, he is mirroring a point I have seen you make yourself that even if there is a God, that doesn't explain moral truth.
When he introduced VA to the idea of possible worlds, I took a punt on VA getting carried away with that idea and trying to make a KFC-Bucket out of it, so I made a point of presenting Daniel with a possible world with morality but not empathy, it's page 7 of this thread. He's made the case already for the empathy thing there.
We probably don't want to make the sort of mistakes that Immanuel Can does. He has his own fixed ideas set so hard that he actually cannot understand things you write sometimes. The best example being the simple tests that he says "subjectivism"
[sic] must pass in order to make sense under its own whatever whatever whatever... the test is to provide moral facts and become moral realism, that's the only thing he can comprehend because he is fundamentally broken beyond reapir.
We are all at risk from time to time of making the sort of deductive errors that IC has built his life around if we are incautious. You have developed an explanation of morality that is heavy on the feels and light on the rationales it has started to make a lot of sense to you, especially as it has been under fire mainly from Henry, VA and IC for the last several years, and that's just not very challenging.
McKay is making an argument that seeks moral fact that would work equally well here on Earth where the moral agents happen to be descended from communist monkeys that value looking after each other and built their moral world view out of cooperative instincts and fellow feeling but also on some alternate world where donkeys speak, sharks wear trousers, and the moral agents descended from pitiless lone killing machines that don't care about empathy at all.
We occupy a limited perspective within that model, being the communist monkeys that understand morality from within the communist-monkey-KFC-Bucket as a rule, it takes a bit of practice to imagine life outside that view. If we are willing to cut off the possiblity and refuse to deal with that sort of thing, we get to enjoy feeling superior like IC does, but we would actually be insular and self-satisfied like IC is.
