Eating Meat is Barbaric

[Age]

I never stated that it's unnatural to kill animals.

On the contrary, it is actually natural to kill animals.

But just because something is natural, that doesn't necessarily make it morally right.

Rape, for example, is natural. But any civilized person would say it's morally reprehensible.

You also need to remember that those animals that have been culled and created a certain way are still living, breathing beings capable of experiencing pain and suffering.

I don't know if you are lacking the ability to experience empathy and compassion, but yeah, having your throat slit open doesn't feel good, even for culled and specifically created animals.

You're kind of all over the place. So are you okay with eating animals who were anesthetized before being killed? Are you against the practice regardless or just under certain circumstances?

As to my empathy and compassion quotient, since only 1% of Americans are vegan, if one's eating habits are the measure of those (which, of course it isn't, despite your histrionics), mine are in the top 10%, since I make the decision to spend more to select less inhumane ranches as my source of foodstuffs.

BTW I can't wait to hear your details on why you find the practice of rape: "natural'. I'll go make some popcorn.

I'm not all over the place.

You are simply not understanding me.

Let me try to make this clear.

I don't condone slaughtering animals at all and I don't condone rape at all.

I consider rape morally reprehensible and I also consider animal slaughter morally reprehensible.

When I stated that rape was natural, what I meant is that it was/is commonplace in a state of nature, where the rule of law does not exist. Rape, pillage, and plunder were commonplace in the ancient world.

you are right about this. Rape, pillage, and plunder was way to commonplace in the 'ancient world', in the days when this was being written.

I still believe this is morally wrong though, let me make that clear again.

Bad things, brutal things occur in nature all the time. It's unfortunate.

The only bad and brutal things that occur absolutely anywhere only come from what you adult human beings do.

But then, who of you want to 'look at', admit, and discuss this irrefutable Fact?

We humans don't have to be so cruel though. We have the ability to behave morally and benevolently.

Any person who believes himself civilized should take no part in the savagery of the animal slaughterhouse industry.

What about in regards to 'judging' others. To you, 'should' any person who believes "themself" civilized take no part in the 'judging' of others, as well?

[Age]

I hope you didn't eat them!

Nah. Would have, though, in the right (or very wrong) circumstance.

After all the meat from all animals, alive or dead, is 'here' for those like "henry quirk" to use how they want and like.

And, let 'us' not forget that the killing of the 'human' 'meat' is no different to these types of so-called 'people'.

After all a 'human' has to only be suspected of taking off with a toothpick for 'people' like "henry quirk" to shoot them, 'justifiably' dead, from which then the meat of the human animal is there for "henry quirk" to consume, and even eaten raw, as this is the way "henry quirk" likes to and wants to eat the meat 'of animals'.

[Age]

If we are to truly consider ourselves moral and civilized, then we must get rid of the animal slaughterhouse industry. It has no place in a modern civilization that prides itself on enlightenment and ethical principles. We are not cavemen anymore; we don't need to hunt anymore. We live in a modern civilization with plenty of resources. Being vegan it totally practical. And there are also plenty of vegan sources of protein. You won't be malnourished. The animal slaughterhouse industry is ugly and cruel. We must acquire a new morality that truly includes the well being of animals.

Killing animals and eating their meat is barbaric and cruel.

Part of the human telos is to evolve and transcend. We must respect animals in order to promote an ever advancing civilization.

Choose the benevolent and compassionate path and be vegan. It is worth it.

Whatever we eat is alive! The point is you take one life opportunity when you eat something so you should be grateful and give something in return to make your life worthwhile.

Why do the human beings who try to justify the hunting, farming, slaughtering, and eating of meat, when it is not necessary to, bring up the 'killing' of plants or vegetables as though this is wrong as well?

Logically, and obviously, if it is, supposedly, 'wrong: to kill vegetables and then eat them, then it is also 'wrong' to kill animals and then eat them also.

Also, why these human beings try to use this kind of 'justification' is already known, I am just looking for who else knows.

[Age]

I'm not all over the place.

You are simply not understanding me.

Let me try to make this clear.

I don't condone slaughtering animals at all and I don't condone rape at all.

I consider rape morally reprehensible and I also consider animal slaughter morally reprehensible.

When I stated that rape was natural, what I meant is that it was/is commonplace in a state of nature, where the rule of law does not exist. Rape, pillage, and plunder were commonplace in the ancient world.

I still believe this is morally wrong though, let me make that clear again.

Bad things, brutal things occur in nature all the time. It's unfortunate.

We humans don't have to be so cruel though. We have the ability to behave morally and benevolently.

Any person who believes himself civilized should take no part in the savagery of the animal slaughterhouse industry.

I respect your personal decision and opinion not to consume animals at all regardless of the circumstances of their situation. That is a very reasonable and internally logical choice.

I would advise you, communication clarity-wise to forgo focusing on specific details of the practice of the industry since it gives the (erroneous) impression that you only object to those specific factors and that examples of the practice that avoid those are acceptable to you, when they actually aren't.

1. Not everyone sees and interprets things the same way.

2. I never saw nor interpreted what you have here. To me it was pretty clear what "eudaimonia23" was saying and getting at/meaning.

I now understand your use of the term "natural", which seems to include anything that a human or animal might do. I don't disagree with you that using that (atypical in my experience) definition, rape would qualify for that label. Just don't be surprised if future audiences don't share your definition of the term and thus your declarations mislead them, to your detriment.

This advice can apply to absolutely every one of 'us' here, and for the definition of just about absolutely every term here, if not then every term here.

Why do you imagine you human beings are, still, lost, confused, bickering, fighting, and killing each other, in the days when this is being written?

Lastly, but most importantly, the "problem" if one drills down to the core of the issue isn't the killing of domesticated animals, it's the creation and breeding of them, since that is, in fact their purpose.

Who and/or what gave them that purpose? And, what for, exactly?

It's akin to complaining that internal combustion engines release carbon dioxide exhaust. That's inherent to their function.

So, does because some thing that is inherent to its human being made and created function, then this means human beings should just keep making or producing more of 'that' no matter how much Wrong, abuse, or damage that 'that function' causes?

If yes, then really?

But, if no, then you appear to be arguing against "your" own 'self' here.

If you don't want that exhaust don't complain about how ICE function, don't make them in the first place.

Is this not more or less what the title of this topic is saying/suggesting. That is: If eating meat is barbaric, then just stop the hunting, capturing, farming, breeding, and then killing/slaughtering of animals.

Don't complain about the killing associated with ranching, eliminate the need for the industry as a whole.

Well if 'we' can counter the lies and Falsehoods that were told and had been indoctrinated into you adult human beings with the Truth about how eating meat is barbaric, then you adults will stop indoctrinating children with the same lies and Falsehoods, and then the 'False need' for 'the, unnecessary, industry' here will be eliminated, once, and for all.

[Age]

As with every so-called 'philosophical discussion' so to with 'morality discussions' finding out what is actually, irrefutably, True and Right is an absolutely Truly simple, easy, and quick process.

Eating meat when necessary for one's survival is perfectly all right, but eating meat when it is not necessary is not all right. Obviously, if one finds or comes across what is called a 'dead animal', which has not been purposely killed by the human animal, then this is all right as well. And, the term 'all right' here means and refers to 'that' what is right by all. Which is also simplified here by the term or word 'Right'.

Eating meat when necessary is what is Right, in Life. Doing so was obviously necessary for human beings survival for millions of years, hitherto when this is being written. Eating meat for and under this situation would obviously not be barbaric at all.

And,

Eating meat when it is not necessary is what is Wrong, in Life. Having to eat meat, in the days when this is being written, is needed only in the very, very rarest of occasions. Eating meat in all other situations could be classed as barbaric. (That is if one wants to use an 'emotional term' to, literally, 'stir up' the emotions in another.)

Now, obviously, any form of hunting, gathering, farming, breeding, and killing of animals for food, which is not necessary for survival, is not 'all right', and thus what is actually Wrong, in Life.

And, if absolutely any one disagrees with this, then let 'us' have an open and honest discussion, here.

[LuckyR]

In my experience, there is a Silent Majority audience that posts rarely (or never), who are familiar with the plurality of internally logical viewpoints and don't suffer from Inferiority Complexes such that opinions different from their own don't frighten them.

You seem to be imagining things..

Isn't it neat the way each individual has their own set of individual experiences?

[LuckyR]

As with every so-called 'philosophical discussion' so to with 'morality discussions' finding out what is actually, irrefutably, True and Right is an absolutely Truly simple, easy, and quick process.

Eating meat when necessary for one's survival is perfectly all right, but eating meat when it is not necessary is not all right. Obviously, if one finds or comes across what is called a 'dead animal', which has not been purposely killed by the human animal, then this is all right as well. And, the term 'all right' here means and refers to 'that' what is right by all. Which is also simplified here by the term or word 'Right'.

Eating meat when necessary is what is Right, in Life. Doing so was obviously necessary for human beings survival for millions of years, hitherto when this is being written. Eating meat for and under this situation would obviously not be barbaric at all.

And,

Eating meat when it is not necessary is what is Wrong, in Life. Having to eat meat, in the days when this is being written, is needed only in the very, very rarest of occasions. Eating meat in all other situations could be classed as barbaric. (That is if one wants to use an 'emotional term' to, literally, 'stir up' the emotions in another.)

Now, obviously, any form of hunting, gathering, farming, breeding, and killing of animals for food, which is not necessary for survival, is not 'all right', and thus what is actually Wrong, in Life.

And, if absolutely any one disagrees with this, then let 'us' have an open and honest discussion, here.

A perfectly reasonable and internally logical minority opinion.

[Iwannaplato]

I have already talked, in part, about this already.

Not really, no.
I admitted the effects of my actions and inactions.
You can't manage to admit that your actions and inactions lead to the unnecessary deaths of children and animals. Nor can you manage to admit that you are valuing your life above theirs. You imply that you only eat a necessary amount of meat. However there are many products including food products, that you consume or purchase, that leads to animal and child deaths. Instead of posting here as much as you do, for example, you could research things like where the cotton in your clothes comes from. You could have not purchased digital media devices. You could only buy ecological food. And so on. If you take an honest look at what you do each day, there are ways you could have prioritized your life and research to minimize the amount of deaths your life contributes to. Further your continued existence leads to the death or more than one animal and one child. Thus you value your live, we'll call it Ken's body, over the lives of animals and children.

In dealings with other people you have generalized negatively (you know, about human beings, in the way you deny and gaslight that you do), but you yourself tacitly value your life, just as they do, over the lives and animals and children. So, what this entails is both arrogance and you putting yourself in the role of the shamer, the guilt in others creator.

You don't notice this.

I am sure that your cleverness aimed at mental gymnastics, will manage to create for you a way to view this as if it doesn't apply to you, just as you will continue to apply it to other people, never noticing the hypocrisy.

Just to let you know: this will not fool me not will it fool some percentage of the people who see such BS from you. It may fool some, and it will likely fool you.

Any unsease or anger you feel reading this is something you should investigate rather than 'coming up with' a clever response, one that allows you to feel smug and superior to me and/or others yet again. And notice that feeling of smugness also. You many not have realized what it was.

[Iwannaplato]

Nor does this stuff. Couldn't manage to be honest about something so simple, could ya?
But, maybe your target audience won't see through your B.S.

Look at these last two posts here. These people do not quote a single word that I have said and written here, but then write 'this stuff'.

Literally, absolutely nothing is provided, and then both say and claim, 'this stuff does not work'.

Incorrect. I have told you before, and clearly, that if you click on the arrow, in this case next to you name, this leads to the post in question. In case you don't understand the phrase 'this stuff':

'this stuff' refers to your writing contained in the linked post. ''Stuff' can refer to any collection, group, grouping of items often in the same 'space' or space.

I am letting you know something about how your writing in that post does not affect me. I don't know if you are conscious of the various things you are doing, but I am formally, if bluntly, letting you know what you are doing will not work on me. However it may work on your target audience or on others who are not necessarily your target audience.

And, to use you as a role model for the creation of useless sentences......

Some people might say that you are conveniently obtuse and not infrequently.

[Gary Childress]

As rational beings, we have the ability to shape our world. If you are okay with animal cruelty and don't want to do your part to eliminate it, then you are partakers of darkness and savagery.

Most people know it's wrong, they just don't care -- they don't want to give up on the taste of savory meat.

I know meat tastes good, but animal lives matter more than my personal taste.

Sometimes, in order to create a better world, we have to make sacrifices.

If there is a God or gods, then I imagine they will judge us on how we responded to this situation.

But regardless of reward or punishment, we should do the right thing, the compassionate thing.

I know it's wrong. I care that it's wrong. However, meat is more satisfying to me than vegetables and I don't like being miserable. It's either live as evil or not live out of kindness to other living beings and my programming routine won't allow me to self-destruct.

[Alexiev]

Any person who believes himself civilized should take no part in the savagery of the animal slaughterhouse industry.

Barbarians do not participate in the "animal slaughterhouse industry". That industry is endemic to civilization.

The notion that civilization promotes moral behavior is, I think, incorrect. Eating meat is barbaric (i.e. practiced by uncivilized barbarians) but the industrialization of meat production is, by definition, a product of civilzation.

You should be more careful in expressing your prejudices. They seem to contradict your thesis.

[Atla]

In my experience, there is a Silent Majority audience that posts rarely (or never), who are familiar with the plurality of internally logical viewpoints and don't suffer from Inferiority Complexes such that opinions different from their own don't frighten them.

You seem to be imagining things..

Isn't it neat the way each individual has their own set of individual experiences?

Yeah, "neat"

[bahman]

If we are to truly consider ourselves moral and civilized, then we must get rid of the animal slaughterhouse industry. It has no place in a modern civilization that prides itself on enlightenment and ethical principles. We are not cavemen anymore; we don't need to hunt anymore. We live in a modern civilization with plenty of resources. Being vegan it totally practical. And there are also plenty of vegan sources of protein. You won't be malnourished. The animal slaughterhouse industry is ugly and cruel. We must acquire a new morality that truly includes the well being of animals.

Killing animals and eating their meat is barbaric and cruel.

Part of the human telos is to evolve and transcend. We must respect animals in order to promote an ever advancing civilization.

Choose the benevolent and compassionate path and be vegan. It is worth it.

Whatever we eat is alive! The point is you take one life opportunity when you eat something so you should be grateful and give something in return to make your life worthwhile.

Yes, plants are living organisms but they don't have a central nervous system. They don't experience pain when consumed.

That pain is nothing compared to the pain of dying naturally.

Veganism is just about minimizing pain and suffering as much as possible.

Eating plants as opposed to animals is the ethical and compassionate way to go.

We can minimize animal suffering as well. I am afraid that is not a good argument.

[LuckyR]

You seem to be imagining things..

Isn't it neat the way each individual has their own set of individual experiences?

Yeah, "neat"

Just to clarify, I wrote "neat", but I meant "neat-o".

[Iwannaplato]

Yes, plants are living organisms but they don't have a central nervous system. They don't experience pain when consumed.

Actually we don't know if they feel pain or not. In Western science it was considered speculative at best and false often that animals felt pain. They were considered machinelike. Slowly over time it was realized/accepted that animals did suffer. There has been a bias towards considering that life forms unlike us do not share traits. This even included other ethnicities within homo sapiens.

Nowadays scientists are realizing that plants communicate, take defensive measure, have neurological like reactions with, yes, our type of nervous system, share resources with other trees for example, when they are in trouble, and exhibit signs of intelligence. This include the possbility that they experience pain,
https://www.livescience.com/plants-sque ... essed.html
https://www.ambius.com/resources/blog/l ... ntelligent
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180968084/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... rhiza.html

Veganism is just about minimizing pain and suffering as much as possible.

Eating plants as opposed to animals is the ethical and compassionate way to go.

I think a case for veganism can be made in that it likely reduces animal suffering and death. But even vegans need to realize that their foods have been made in processes that include, necessarily, the deaths of animals. And if they use digital media devices, they are contributing to animal and human deaths, for example. IOW nearly all humans are deciding to continue living at the expense of the lives of both animals and other humans. They are implicitly placing the value of their life over that of others.